Post: #1

I know game denialism is a taboo topic here, but sometimes you have an experience that makes you really wonder.

Right now I'm hosting a dude from Germany on couchsurfing. He seemed cool, wanted to experience the L.A. scene from the perspective of a local. So I decided to host him for 2 days. Ethnically he's Persian, but he doesn't look middle eastern. Looks like a dark white guy, like an Italian or something. He just arrived earlier this evening so I took him down to Hollywood to bar hop and experience that scene.

I'm at a rocker bar called Angels and Kings on Hollywood Blvd. He buys me a beer and we chat about random shit for a few. I notice there is a chic sitting by herself on my right. Just drinking and glancing at her iPhone. She was cute though not hot, thin and Latina. I assumed she was just waiting for someone to arrive. When I had a break in the conversation with the German dude, I turned to her and opened. She seemed very receptive to conversation and I was rapping with her for about 15 minutes and it was going decent. At some point I asked her about her favorite drink and she named some German beer I'd never heard of. I then said, my buddy is here from Germany maybe he knows it. Plus I didn't want to be rude and completely leave him aside. As soon as I said that her eyes lit up. I then found that her ex-husband was German, she even speaks some German and once she did that, I was basically done. I could not re-engage her. She only wanted to talk to him. I tried everything to get her attention back, teasing, negging, push-pull, kino, it was falling flat.

Now this German-Persian guy, here are his stats, about the same height as me around 5'9"ish with shoes. Looks wise I don't think he's a good looking guy but not ugly either. He certainly is not objectively better looking than me. He wasn't dressed stylishly. His body posture was slouching, seemed quite shy and like most guys from Germany, had absolutely ZERO game to speak of and talked in that sort of robotic German voice they often have. I'd even say his game was negative, it was that bad. But the chic was unperturbed. In the next hour she was kino-ing him hard, had her arm constantly around him, unzipped the top of his jacket and started touching his chest, took his cap off so she could get closer to his face. She was screaming "make out with me" with all her body language and the dude wouldn't even touch her back. At this point I was just the third wheel kicking back watching this while sipping my beer. There were no other targets to talk to for me. It was becoming fascinating, it broke all the rules I learned about game. Even though this girl was throwing herself at him in every way imaginable, he just stood there looking uncomfortable, not giving any kino back, not engaging her in interesting conversation, looking shy and slouching. I was seriously wondering if I'd just hosted my first gay man. When she got up to go the bathroom he was asking me if women in America are usually like that, show up to bars and flirt with guys they don't know. It's like his mind was blown and this was something he'd never seen in his life before. I told him he can easily go home with her tonight if he wants. That would make a hell of a way to end your first night in L.A.

She then took out her phone and asked for his number, even though she knows he's only in town for several days. She clearly wants to fuck his brains out. Since his phone is a German number, they were fumbling around for about 15 minutes trying to figure out how to text each other. I'm thinking, WTF, most girls would never have that much patience when exchanging numbers, especially for a guy with bad game. And she wasn't an ugly or fat chic either.

Now I know you guys may be thinking I'm hating. I'm not. I actually encouraged him to hook up with her since she's giving him all the attention. Yeah, I was a little ticked that I opened her, warmed her up and he ended up walking away with free pussy while doing zero work other than just being German. It was all kind of eye-opening thing for me. If a chic likes your look, ancestry or whatever, you don't need any game. In some cases you can even have negative game and still have pussy thrown at you if you just fit her slot of what she already decided she likes. I witnessed right in front of my eyes what white guys must experience when they go to Peru or the Philippines. While I'm certainly not the best mack on this forum, my game was light years ahead of him. I was dressed stylish, was having playful and interesting conversation, using kino, and in the end she choose a stiff German guy who basically acted like he'd never touched a woman in his life. I must admit, it does feel like a slap in the face. I know game can help, but tonight demonstrated more than anything, finding your niche is more important than game. Another thing that blew my mind is that I'm not used to seeing guys get thrown freebies like this. For me and at least some of the guys I'm close to, we have to fucking work to get results. We cannot make major mistakes. We have to be on point. It then made me really wonder how often this sort of thing goes on. How often are dudes getting pussy thrown at them that they don't even have to work for.

Post: #2

Man, don't worry. That guy got a dose of mini-fame from being German because she was still in love with the German guy that fucked her over (and over etc.). She was just talking to him because of that connection. He could have been anyone who said they were German.

Next time a girl asks you your nationality or heritage- "are you puerto rican?", "are you german?" just say "yes."

Post: #3

Yeah it was all just pure luck for this guy. He just happened to be at the right place at the right time with a girl who loves German guys. Sometimes you will just fall into the category of a girls "ideal type" of guy and there is no game needed whatsoever. Unless your a celebrity or extremely good looking, how often is this luck going to get you laid? Hardly ever.

Game is about making your own luck.

Post: #4

(10-05-2012 04:07 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  It then made me really wonder how often this sort of thing goes on. How often are dudes getting pussy thrown at them that they don't even have to work for.

That's how betas get laid. Either they're at the right place at the right time like your couchsurfer or they're being so persistent in "courting" a girl that after weeks or months she eventually gives up and lets him fuck her.

Post: #5

He was lucky, he was even luckier that he was aloof and acted as though he was repulsed by her from what your observations are indicating. this just tickled her more and made her more attracted

Post: #6

I heard a quote once,

"Consistency, not novelty is the key to uncommon results."

The guy got lucky with her having previously dated a German guy. With his game there is no way he's going to get laid consistently. It's the guys who do this day in and day out who succeed consistently in the long run. That's a big thing that people don't realize.

Game denialists have faulty thinking. It doesn't work a few times, or they don't succeed fast enough therefore they say game doesn't work.

It's easy for our minds to play tricks on us, and not focus on the overall positive direction we are heading.

Post: #7

Zero game concepts were broken in this story, in fact they were all highlighted

1. Hyper gamy, she views German as better
2. In the USA "looks" are the number two quality after game, and if you have extreme looks or her extreme "type" she will ignore your mistakes
3. You opened her, if she sees him as more attractive you double fucked yourself because she feels more comfortable being "introduced" and two you come off as more needy by approaching in the first place (yet another reason to go solo unless your wing gets the game)
4. That guy has missed on many bangs, would you let that shit slide when you meet a girl and she is all over you? The answer is no because you have game, long-term you win.

Overall, not surprising, this is like being blonde hair and blue eyed and striking out in Mexico. You literally need negative game. This is also why it's very hard for me I take game advice from guys who are in the 8.5 to 9 range, their game sucks and all they have to do is hold a conversation.

With all that said I wouldn't worry about it, no big deal man just recover and find your niche as you stated above.

Post: #8

There's always going to be a small percentage of girls that are into you right from the get-go, no game required.

I bet if you went to Germany you could find German women who love black Americans. Some women have their "type".

Post: #9

I don't often quote mom here but as she would say "she was enchanted" she had good experiences with Germans and likes the culture. Stay with it Speak and see if he bangs the enchantment wears off quick especially on a first date entered sober. That's where game would have to kick in.

Now keep in mind that 99.9999999 % of the male population doesn't know game exists and many of these dudes are pulling. But when? How much? How long are dry spells? Your average dude pulls by building attraction on the job not by pounding the pavement. They don't know how.
Also, you opened her. He didn't. Would you want to wait until you get lucky to get laid or be in control of it?

Another thing..when you put yourself in a position where girls are doing the work you can't control quality. I see many guys here dating waaaayyy down because of this.

The only lesson here is that Speakeasy is a good wingman.

Post: #10

Being German was his game.

Women like foreign dick.

Post: #11

Finding one's niche is as crucial as any game concept out there.

Like they say, "get in where you fit in".

Post: #12

Great feedback, brothers. It was helpful. Maybe my conclusions were a bit hasty.

Post: #13

When people say it's a numbers game they are right, they don't become denialists until they imply "game" amounts to approaching until you get lucky. Game is about improving your odds, especially over the long haul.

Women are quite capable of deciding to pursue and fuck a guy for pretty much any arbitrary reason they want. (Rebelliousness, competition, boredom, novelty, money, you name it). Just as they are capable of rejecting men for equally arbitrary reasons no matter how good your game. Sometimes you're dealt an unbeatable hand and all you have to do is not quit.

Post: #14

lol your garden variety game denialist like Novy or Sleazy won't count "escalation" and "flirting" as game so it isn't really game denialism, it's more like "game doesn't trump looks/fame/status" which is a dubious claim.

Agree - game is about getting laid on your own terms with consistency, not some one-off situation which falls into your lap by chance.

Post: #15

I like this story. But, for every one of these stories, there are nine where you beat out the Persian guy, where he never even talks to the girl, or he cockblocks you by trying to horn in on the conversation. This was, quite frankly, a rare occurrence.

At the end of the day, a strict definition of "game" is only part of an arsenal of tools that you bring to the table. Some are god-given (your looks, your height, your voice), and others are honed (your charm, your posture, your fitness). Then there's an element of placing your product (yourself) in the right context. All girls like certain guys. Some guys enjoy more mainstream appeal, others more niche.

A looser definition of game includes all that shit into your overall game. In other words, game is everything and everything is game.

A side note: I've noticed girls tend to want to date (bang) dudes of a certain background if they've had a positive experience with that type in the past. I've had enough experience in the recent past, of girls later telling me that they've dated guys of a background that I'm sometimes mistaken for, to know that they were pre-amenable to receiving my game.

Post: #16

Also, without you doing the leg work of opening her she would have never met him because he sure wasn't going to open her.

Post: #17

Game is about screening and qualifying. The more game you have, the quicker you able to screen and qualify.

You say you are black and American, in Canada, the lizards seem to go ape-shit about that all day long. I even tried it for a bit to see if I could get some azz in Toronto but couldn't be bothered to stick at it.


Game is about recognition. Recognise a loss and pull out. Recognise an opp and dig in for the close.

Post: #18

She liked him. End of story. It happens. Girls just like certain guys sometimes for whatever reasons. Maybe, this girl had a thing for Germans. If you would have introduced him as Iranian or Persian, things might have worked out differently. This doesn't mean that game doesn't work.

This doesn't really mean anything. It's an isolated incident. The sample size is too small, one man and one woman. WAY TOO SMALL TO FORM ANY GENERALIZATIONS OR CONCLUSIONS!!

Also, he didn't find any niche. A girl found him. He could go to that same bar and never get laid again. He could go to New York, San Francisco, Chicago, and Miami and this might never happen again. Don't change your game beliefs because of one isolated case. He got lucky. It happens. She was horny. Her fantasies involve Germans. The stars aligned for him.

Speakeasy,

You should go to Germany. The same thing might happen to you.

I was just at a German restaurant. My date was black. All the German waitresses were complimenting us and saying how cute my black date was. We started talking about Germans being attracted to Blacks. The Germans working at the restaurant confirmed that many Germans are attracted to Blacks and consider them exotic and sexy. My date said they are over compensating for their racist history.

Whatever the reason, you should go to Germany. You might have a similar experience to this one.

Post: #19

The was nothing you could have done about this. This particular girl has a think for Germany, Germans, German culture, German beer. All things German. It was just dumb luck. You might have smashed if you hadn't mentioned your guest being from Germany, but then again, you had no way of knowing she would react the way she did. Chalk it up. I do get your overall point though - game denialists believe this is how EVERYONE gets laid, purely by some form of luck in running into a chick that simply digs something about you. Sometimes it's just that. Sometimes it's a combination of her being attracted, and you selling yourself further. Sometimes it's a matter of you creating attraction from scratch. I understand your frustration because you put in work, made progress, and then got derailed by a circumstance that was purely out of your control, to a dude that didn't seem to know what to do with his good fortune. I hope he eventually beat it up, and gave her a couple of pumps for you...HA HA!

Post: #20

Also you kind of cockblocked yourself.

Oh you like obscure German beers that I never heard of? You're in luck my friend here is from Germany!

Oh you're here because your car broke across the road? You're in luck emech here is a mechanic

You just moved here from the Dominican republic? Interesting, Elabayrde here next to me just got back from a couple months there.

Post: #21

Germans do love blacks. Look at Dirk Nowitzki. He only dated black girls, and married a black girl

Post: #22

(10-05-2012 01:13 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Also you kind of cockblocked yourself.

Oh you like obscure German beers that I never heard of? You're in luck my friend here is from Germany!

Lol, don't think that didn't cross my mind after the fact.

Post: #23

The game is random....

You cannot predict what any women wants or desire...since her thought process is not base off of logic...you can get blown out by a fat chick and than pickup a model the next day. That makes no sense.

I personally have little success with short average asian girls...but I am good with hot latina and white girls...That makes no sense. You would think it be easier to game asian girls who are average looking versus hot latinas or white girls who are more strongly desire by all race. It makes no sense.

Sometime its better to be lucky than good.

Than again, had you not chosen the bar and than open her, your friend would of never met her...Therefore your theory of game doesn't work is wrong. You are an important ingredient in setting up the meet. Also he did not close her. So his success with her is still the same as mine. He did not kiss or had sex with. So his success is equal to any keyboard jockey.

Your Game was use to open a girl and bring up the german topic...and intro your friend...that requires some level of skill and savy....you could of open and acted retarded and your friend could of been guilty by association....

Furthermore , that german guy would of never open her or met her...and had he been there by himself..nothen would of happen...the outcome maybe different.

Game does work...real game and knowledge are clouded by marketers and scammers in the industry...It is hard to figure out between real game and luck...

If your not getting freebies from girl...you are missing out....freebies happen alot....

Post: #24

Tonight, introduce him as Iranian.

If he meets a girl with an Iranian fetish, he is one lucky motherfucker!!!

And, where is the meme for this?

Girl has a fetish for Germans...... = ....Game doesn't work!

Just kidding Speakeasy, you know I love you.

Post: #25

Something else that is crazy...

If Speakeasy wasn't there to introduce them, they probably would have never met!!!

It was Speakeasy's approach that made it happen!