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Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
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tenderman100 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 02:08 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  1) The A.C.A./Obamacare is not "central planning". It controls costs by making sure everyone has insurance, not only sick people.(Note: see community rating)

2) Look at Romneycare in Massachusetts. People like it. It works well. The A.C.A./Obamacare is based on it. (Note: see budget overruns).

3) Ask old people how they like their Medicare. Has good outcomes. (Note: people love getting stuff for free)

4) Ask congress how they like their health insurance - it's similar to medicare. Has good outcomes. Why's it good enough for them but not everyone else? (Note: Congress picks from a menu of PRIVATE plans; Medicare is a government run redistribution scheme).

5) Ask veterans how they like their health insurance. Has good outcomes. (Note: you'd be happy to get your services below cost, too. And remember that unhurt veterans are young and in good health generally)
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2012 02:36 PM by tenderman100.)
10-22-2012 02:34 PM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 02:29 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 02:21 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 02:17 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 02:14 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 01:40 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  A mans looks at overall outcomes systemwide rather than get all emotional over a few tales.

You're right. Systemwide outcome of every nation with a form of national heathcare:


Going bankrupt.

Not true.

Maybe going bankrupt but not from healthcare.

Name a country with universal healthcare that isn't going bankrupt?

Also, universal healthcare was first tried in Germany's old weimar state back in

Name some that are going bankrupt as a result of universal healthcare?

It's been tried now, in Massachusetts, with Romneycare and it works.

Are you sure about that?

[Image: Massachusetts-Debt-Under-Romney_graph.png]
10-22-2012 02:35 PM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 02:33 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 02:14 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 01:40 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  A mans looks at overall outcomes systemwide rather than get all emotional over a few tales.

You're right. Systemwide outcome of every nation with a form of national heathcare:

Going bankrupt.

U.S.: Going bankrupt.

We Americans ride a high horse.

The fall is going to be quite painful.

It is going bankrupt, in thanks to large part Medicare and Medicaid.
10-22-2012 02:38 PM
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BIGINJAPAN Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 02:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 02:33 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 02:14 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 01:40 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  A mans looks at overall outcomes systemwide rather than get all emotional over a few tales.

You're right. Systemwide outcome of every nation with a form of national heathcare:

Going bankrupt.

U.S.: Going bankrupt.

We Americans ride a high horse.

The fall is going to be quite painful.

It is going bankrupt, in thanks to large part Medicare and Medicaid.

Doesn't the government have about $50 Trillion, yes with a captial T in unfunded liabilities due to medicare and medicaid ? I think the liabilities of those 2 programs are worse than social security.

So I would whole heartedly agree with Samseau. You might not be broke yet, but the gigantic fat tail risk of demographics is about to hit. Again brought on by government buying peoples votes with promises they can't keep

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10-22-2012 02:49 PM
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DVY Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
The real issue with obamacare is an increase in bureaucracy, paperwork and protocol...when you add layers of extra paperwork and management, costs increase because there is an extra layer of employees you have to pay (who based on the USPS have no incentive to work efficiently).

Ancedote or not, I applied to the CA state dental board this year, took freaking 6 weeks (and about 4 hours of constant nagging to the state board) to get my license. This is ridiculous, considering I submitted all the necessary pre-documentation and they only need to spit out a dental license #.

By constrast, in applying for insurance which asked for virtually the same documentation. The whole process took me 15 minutes of chatting w/the agent, and 48 hours to receive my paperwork.

Public services are greatly inefficient compared to private. NASA is notoriously retardely wasteful....

WIA- For most of men, our time being masters of our own fate, kings in our own castles is short. Even those of us in the game will eventually succumb to ease of servitude rather than deal with the malaise of solitude
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2012 02:57 PM by DVY.)
10-22-2012 02:55 PM
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The_CEO Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 02:55 PM)DVY Wrote:  The real issue with obamacare is an increase in bureaucracy, paperwork and protocol...when you add layers of extra paperwork and management, costs increase because there is an extra layer of employees you have to pay (who based on the USPS have no incentive to work efficiently).

Ancedote or not, I applied to the CA state dental board this year, took freaking 6 weeks (and about 4 hours of constant nagging to the state board) to get my license. This is ridiculous, considering I submitted all the necessary pre-documentation and they only need to spit out a dental license #.

By constrast, in applying for insurance which asked for virtually the same documentation. The whole process took me 15 minutes of chatting w/the agent, and 48 hours to receive my paperwork.

Public services are greatly inefficient compared to private. NASA is notoriously retardely wasteful....

Actually the A.C.A./Obamacare requires that insurance companies spend the majority of your premium $ on healthcare NOT paperwork and advertising.

This is precisely what works well about Medicare.. that there is one payer (i.e. "singlepayer".) it minimizes paperwork and bureaucracy.

Has anyone ever been on hold with bank, hmo, etc pressing 5 buttons just talk to an operator? Give me a break re: the private sector being ultra-efficient....
10-22-2012 03:01 PM
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MikeCF Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 02:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  It is going bankrupt, in thanks to large part Medicare and Medicaid.

How many guys on here preaching against Obamacare got student loans?

You think tenderman never got a government/SBA loan?

You think the stock market isn't being inflated because of government involvement?

If the government hadn't bailed out the banks with taxpayer money, what would tenderman's retirement portfolio be worth?

Most conservatives are, "I got mine, fuck everyone else."

But make no mistake: Nearly every guy railing against "socialized healthcare" has himself benefited from some form of socialism.
10-22-2012 03:03 PM
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BIGINJAPAN Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 03:01 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 02:55 PM)DVY Wrote:  The real issue with obamacare is an increase in bureaucracy, paperwork and protocol...when you add layers of extra paperwork and management, costs increase because there is an extra layer of employees you have to pay (who based on the USPS have no incentive to work efficiently).

Ancedote or not, I applied to the CA state dental board this year, took freaking 6 weeks (and about 4 hours of constant nagging to the state board) to get my license. This is ridiculous, considering I submitted all the necessary pre-documentation and they only need to spit out a dental license #.

By constrast, in applying for insurance which asked for virtually the same documentation. The whole process took me 15 minutes of chatting w/the agent, and 48 hours to receive my paperwork.

Public services are greatly inefficient compared to private. NASA is notoriously retardely wasteful....

Actually the A.C.A./Obamacare requires that insurance companies spend the majority of your premium $ on healthcare NOT paperwork and advertising.

This is precisely what works well about Medicare.. that there is one payer (i.e. "singlepayer".) it minimizes paperwork and bureaucracy.

Has anyone ever been on hold with bank, hmo, etc pressing 5 buttons just talk to an operator? Give me a break re: the private sector being ultra-efficient....

Difference is you choose to bank with a certain bank and not forced to sign up with any one institution. You can leave at any point if you don't like their services.

Not the case with government ran healthcare.

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10-22-2012 03:05 PM
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MikeCF Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 03:01 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  Has anyone ever been on hold with bank, hmo, etc pressing 5 buttons just talk to an operator? Give me a break re: the private sector being ultra-efficient....

Yep.

I have private health insurance.

I can't even log into my account and have had no luck getting in touch with anyone.

Time-Warner Cable fucked up my Internet package. I've spent several hours correcting the problem.

Incidentally, how many guys here are posting from work?

If the private sector were more efficient, there wouldn't be enough slag to allow for the hours of time guys waste online.

(Or maybe guys don't know what efficiency means?)
10-22-2012 03:06 PM
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Duke Castile Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
You guys aren't using representative examples of the private sector. Banks??? Give me a break, they're so heavily regulated they may as well be a govt entity. FDIC insured?

Mikecf you're using national parks as an example of well run govt? They charge money to see and still operate at huge losses.

You're saying accepting a student loan is the same as endorsing govt healthcare?? By what logic is that even the same thing?

And speakeasy, how can you even start talking about "other developed countries" do out so we should too? That's an absurd argument. Other countries do a lot of shit we don't do and we're better for it. Those unique qualities you're talking about is called freedom, and these nasty liberal policies have been eroding it for decades. When the govt controls healthcare it controls your HEALTH. How is that ok with anyone? It's astounding.

We were meant for far more than to suffer in our self created prisons only to die alone. It doesn't have to be that way. It never did.
10-22-2012 03:57 PM
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tenderman100 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 03:03 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  How many guys on here preaching against Obamacare got student loans?(Note; non-sequitur alert...what does Obamacare have to do with student loans? I did have a student loan, but tuition was cheap back then, and one of the arguments FOR the incredible rise in tuition is that so much money IS available. The gov't feeds the higher education trough -- no wonder all the faculty are Democrats).

You think tenderman never got a government/SBA loan? (Note: never did. And the government shouldn't be in that business).

You think the stock market isn't being inflated because of government involvement? (Note: the government shouldn't be involved in the stock market).

If the government hadn't bailed out the banks with taxpayer money, what would tenderman's retirement portfolio be worth? (Note: most banks have paid back their TARP money, with interest. Meanwhile, go to your local community college, take a logic course, and come back when you know the difference between correlation and causation )

Most conservatives are, "I got mine, fuck everyone else." (Note: ever hear of the pizza principle? If I chipped in for the pizza, do I get a slice? And you know what's going to fuck everyone else? Keeping the system EXAcTlY the way it is. In other words, I am willing to take a much smaller slice, but I have paid in. In fact, if the government gave me all my money back, I'd take it).

But make no mistake: Nearly every guy railing against "socialized healthcare" has himself benefited from some form of socialism.(Note: there is a difference between socialist and statist; find a dictionary)
10-22-2012 04:05 PM
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dk902 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 11:26 AM)tenderman100 Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 11:04 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  I think we seem to keep forgetting that all the advanced countries of the world(we being the only exception) have some form of public option in health care. This is just the norm of the developed world. Somehow they manage to thrive just fine.

The only reason it's taken so long here is because we are raised to believe in rugged individualism. In Europe even the far right is much more collectivist. America's brand of conservatism is unique in the world, it's an odd combination of exceptionalism, religiosity, individualism, hawkishness and economic libertarianism.

On the bold faced point, read these:

One woman's lonely death on the NHS's 'care pathway' to the grave: MPs demand action after another patient is chosen to die without doctors telling family
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...amily.html

NHS 'heading for disaster' over lack of nurses
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/health...urses.html

NHS rationing is putting health at risk, says doctors' leader
Mark Porter, the new British Medical Association's chair of council, says cuts and rationing of drugs may harm patients

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/a...ors-leader

I could go on, but you get the idea.

Nationalized health services have one characteristic in common -- CENTRAL PLANNING. Central planning -- in any kind of business (health care, transportation, making cars) -- will fail because of the information problem. Government bureaucrats simply do not know enough to manage the complex quartet of supply, demand, quality, and price.

The result? Rationing, pricing distortions, unfulfilled demand, and, inevitably off-grid or black market activities.

I had this discussion the other day with a friend of mine -- a dyed in the wool lib -- and he said, "Health care is a right."

Really? On what tablet delivered from what deity does it say that? Where does it end? Do I have right to heirloom tomatoes? A jet pack? Landscaping?

Private economic systems are ALWAYS better than public ones. Are there dislocations? You bet. Manage the outliers then, create social safety nets. But don't implement central planning solutions. They are inevitably worse disasters than the disasters they are intended to prevent.

Inevitably.

These things happen tenderman, but tell me have there never been any such instances in private healthcare? You're nitpicking at cases then making a generalised case for the whole system.

I'll give you a personal anecdote of the NHS. I went to a specialist hospital the other week for some tests. I turned up without prior appointment, got seen within an hour. Had full blood tests (results within an hour).

I then passed the sexual health clinic on the way out, so I thought I'd just get a check up. I turned up, no prior appointment, got seen within 30 minutes. I had an HIV test which tells you if you're positive/negative within 60 seconds, and got everything else checked. The staff were very professional and I was very impressed. They get bashed in the media, but I think they do a great job under very difficult circumstances.

This all without paying a cent. Sure I pay taxes, but I didn't directly pay for this. This is not to say the system works perfectly, it's flawed and has many problems. Nor am I a socialist who believes in healthcare for all. On the contrary, but you cannot make statements about a system which you have never been able to experience.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2012 04:36 PM by dk902.)
10-22-2012 04:35 PM
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speakeasy Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
It's funny how everything coming from the government must be an anathema. The irony is that we're arguing this on the Internet that was created by government.

"Government run healthcare" is supposed to scare people and conjure up images of people standing in long Soviet style lines for even basic services. Is that really what it's like in Germany or Singapore or Japan or France? No. So atop the scare-mongering, folks.
10-22-2012 05:18 PM
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MikeCF Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
tenderman100 admits that he suckles from the government's teats.

He's OK with getting "free shit" from the government. He just doesn't want you getting free shit.

That pretty much sums up ever conservative I have ever met.
10-22-2012 05:26 PM
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MikeCF Offline
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RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 03:57 PM)Fisto Wrote:  You're saying accepting a student loan is the same as endorsing govt healthcare?? By what logic is that even the same thing?

The government subsidizes - i.e. pays for - student loans.

Guys are getting "free money" from the government in the form of student loans.

So why get high and mighty when the government gives "free healthcare" to others?

Incidentally, the trashiest, scummiest people in the world already get "free healthcare." Filth meth heads who blow up houses go to burn centers.

tenderman will be getting "free healthcare" in a few years once his Medicare hits.

Obamacare just tries to make it so that the middle and working class people aren't ruined by one medical emergency.

The problem with Obamcare is that it's not socialized enough. A single-payer system would have been far superior to the current abomination.
10-22-2012 05:30 PM
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tenderman100 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 05:26 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  tenderman100 admits that he suckles from the government's teats.

He's OK with getting "free shit" from the government. He just doesn't want you getting free shit.

That pretty much sums up ever conservative I have ever met.

My social security and medicare that I may get down the road -- emphasis on the word MAY, since both systems are heading for bankruptcy -- were never FREE to me.

I have paid in for years.

Frankly, I am happy to get less if it means the system won't go bankrupt.

What is bullshit are attitudes like yours.

You assume greed and insensitivity when there's none there.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2012 06:25 PM by tenderman100.)
10-22-2012 06:25 PM
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tenderman100 Offline
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RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 04:35 PM)dk902 Wrote:  These things happen tenderman, but tell me have there never been any such instances in private healthcare? You're nitpicking at cases then making a generalised case for the whole system.

I'll give you a personal anecdote of the NHS. I went to a specialist hospital the other week for some tests. I turned up without prior appointment, got seen within an hour. Had full blood tests (results within an hour).

I then passed the sexual health clinic on the way out, so I thought I'd just get a check up. I turned up, no prior appointment, got seen within 30 minutes. I had an HIV test which tells you if you're positive/negative within 60 seconds, and got everything else checked. The staff were very professional and I was very impressed. They get bashed in the media, but I think they do a great job under very difficult circumstances.

This all without paying a cent. Sure I pay taxes, but I didn't directly pay for this. This is not to say the system works perfectly, it's flawed and has many problems. Nor am I a socialist who believes in healthcare for all. On the contrary, but you cannot make statements about a system which you have never been able to experience.

I am happy for your experiences, but my guess is you're young and in good health. Moreover, tests are easy, and getting cheaper.

Question for you. What are the outcomes for chronic care in the NHS?
10-22-2012 06:28 PM
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dk902 Offline
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RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
I do not think the NHS is world leading in chronic health care. But considering healthcare in this country is universal and for all and we spend around 10% of GDP whereas the US spends around 17% - with millions not even having access to healthcare because they can't afford insurance.

The NHS is not a socialist utopia, but its main objective is people and not profit as opposed to the US system. Where there are a lot of vested interests and high level of specialisation.

The downside is you could be on a waiting list for months, waiting for a hip replacement. I have heard stories of beds not being available and patients on beds in hallways etc. I think generally these instances are the exception rather than the norm.

U.S. Ranks Last Among Seven Countries on Health System Performance Based on Meausures of Quality, Efficiency, Access, Equity, and Healthy Lives

The UK and the whole Western world will struggle to cope with chronic and elderly care within the next few decades, due to lower birthrates and higher life expectancy.

I am not necessarily saying that the NHS system is perfect. However I want to demonstrate that far from a mainstream in the US that public healthcare is a disaster, it is not.
10-23-2012 04:27 PM
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Sherman Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
I am living in Mexico and I am self-insured. I like it that way. I know that I can handle the cost of what ever happens (unlike the US) and can also shop around and maybe go to Thailand for anything big. When I need something done, I get an appointment the next day with no wait and pay cash. For simple things I can go to the doctor attached to the Famacia Similares drugstores and get a prescription from a doctor for about five dollars for things like antibiotics and many drugs don't require a prescription at all. Also, I take care of myself unlike the 30 percent of Americans who are obese and have a strong incentive to keep fit and eat the right foods. What concerns me is the tax on people who don't get insurance. I haven't been able to find anywhere if expats are exempt. I have opted out of the ridiculously costly American medical system and don't want to be harassed by the nanny state for making a decision which is good for me. I hope Romney gets elected and give me back my right to choose.

Rico... Sauve....
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2012 11:37 PM by Sherman.)
10-23-2012 11:35 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
We should rejoice at OBamacare. It requires regular preventative health screenings. Do you know what this means????

American women will ALL HAVE TO BE TOLD REGULARLY THEY NEED TO EXERCISE MORE, LOSE WEIGHT, AND EAT BETTER....

......by medical professionals who's knowledge can's be argued with.

This could actually make the US skinnier.... Fuck yeah.... down with fatties!!!! Can you imagine if there were half the fatties in this country?
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2013 12:00 PM by kavakid.)
09-03-2013 11:58 AM
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eradicator Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(09-03-2013 11:58 AM)kavakid Wrote:  We should rejoice at OBamacare. It requires regular preventative health screenings. Do you know what this means????

American women will ALL HAVE TO BE TOLD REGULARLY THEY NEED TO EXERCISE MORE, LOSE WEIGHT, AND EAT BETTER....

......by medical professionals who's knowledge can's be argued with.

This could actually make the US skinnier.... Fuck yeah.... down with fatties!!!! Can you imagine if there were half the fatties in this country?

If someone has spent their entire life making poor choices about what they eat, having a doctor tell them "you need to eat healthier and exercise more" might not be enough to make some change. People like to eat cheap processed food because it tastes good and loaded with addictive food additives. I think the only way people will eat healthier is if they have more choices of food that is cheap, healthy and tastes good.

The jury is still out on obamacare.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2013 01:10 PM by eradicator.)
09-03-2013 01:09 PM
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Dusty Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
Lindsy West and that ilk will lobby to eventually have doctors sanctioned for suggesting that obese people lose weight. "Fat Harassment."
09-03-2013 01:46 PM
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iknowexactly Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 03:01 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  
(10-22-2012 02:55 PM)DVY Wrote:  The real issue with obamacare is an increase in bureaucracy, paperwork and protocol...when you add layers of extra paperwork and management, costs increase because there is an extra layer of employees you have to pay (who based on the USPS have no incentive to work efficiently).

Ancedote or not, I applied to the CA state dental board this year, took freaking 6 weeks (and about 4 hours of constant nagging to the state board) to get my license. This is ridiculous, considering I submitted all the necessary pre-documentation and they only need to spit out a dental license #.

By constrast, in applying for insurance which asked for virtually the same documentation. The whole process took me 15 minutes of chatting w/the agent, and 48 hours to receive my paperwork.

Public services are greatly inefficient compared to private. NASA is notoriously retardely wasteful....

Actually the A.C.A./Obamacare requires that insurance companies spend the majority of your premium $ on healthcare NOT paperwork and advertising.

This is precisely what works well about Medicare.. that there is one payer (i.e. "singlepayer".) it minimizes paperwork and bureaucracy.

Has anyone ever been on hold with bank, hmo, etc pressing 5 buttons just talk to an operator? Give me a break re: the private sector being ultra-efficient....

As usual, companies are far smarter at controlling debate, brainwashing people into campaigning against their own interests.

I worked for United Health Care, one of the biggest health insurance companies in the US.

One day they had a presentation showing how profitable they were!!
They were so tone-deaf, they had pie charts showing that something like 70% of the premiums coming in went to health care practitioners, with other slices showing what how the company wasted the other 30% or it went to stockholders. Those poor stockholders, they really need more money!!

As I was an insider in IT, I went to all workstations and saw the notices advising workers to not accept new practitioners to the company's
"panels" as they were called, as a cost cutting measure they wanted to reduce the amount of people available for care so they wouldn't have to pay out. SO brilliant!!!

They were so proud of themselves!!

Most people are so hopelessly dumb and gullible. They think the rich are like them, and have their best interests in mind.

By the way, social security works GREAT, it reduced elderly poverty by a huge amount and is over 99% efficient ( as opposed to the 70% or so the aforementioned health care company was.)

Over 99% of the money paid into SS gets PAID BACK OUT TO RECIPIENTS.

Wall street masturbates at night at the thought of getting all that money to control, waste, and piss away on hookers and blow.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2013 07:22 PM by iknowexactly.)
09-03-2013 07:18 PM
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ElJefe Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
Social Security is efficient in terms of how little is wasted on administration.

But:

1) First problem is that it's a pay-as-you-go system - as young people are increasingly unemployed, and wage levels stagnate, tax revenues cannot support SS. It doesn't help that Obama reduced pay-roll taxes which fund SS.

2) It's regressive. Your contribution is capped once you earn over 110,000, which really undermines the concept.

SS was good for a time when people spent their resources raising large families - a large family implies huge investments in human capital and spurs fathers to work and mothers to produce welfare (albeit at home, and therefore this is not seen in "normal" GDP measures).

In a world of feminism and post-1968, SS is just a ponzi-scheme designed to enrich the hippies who devoted their existence to hedonism.

The best workable solution is to means test social security, convert the pay-roll tax from a regressive to a gross flat tax (that would be a fixed percentage of all income earned) and raise it if necessary to cover at least part of future liabilities.

As for ObamaCare... the US obviously spends way too much on healthcare. But that's obviously due to incompetent regulation. The Swiss have an excellent health-care market.

A year from now you'll wish you started today
09-09-2013 12:15 AM
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Handsome Creepy Eel Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
Samseau Wrote:Also, universal healthcare was first tried in Germany's old weimar state back in 1883. 40 years later the entire state was bankrupt.

That's not a valid argument. Lots of stuff happened during those 40 years.... including the World War I and subsequent reparations. It is gross overestimation to say that this was due to universal health care. To say that voting patterns are somehow connected is also completely un-founded. If you want to correlate preference for demagoguery in form of universal health care and a willingness to start expensive wars, look no further than George Bush. In that case, it was a negative correlation.

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(This post was last modified: 09-09-2013 04:34 AM by Handsome Creepy Eel.)
09-09-2013 04:31 AM
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