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Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(09-09-2013 04:31 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  
Samseau Wrote:Also, universal healthcare was first tried in Germany's old weimar state back in 1883. 40 years later the entire state was bankrupt.

That's not a valid argument. Lots of stuff happened during those 40 years.... including the World War I and subsequent reparations. It is gross overestimation to say that this was due to universal health care. To say that voting patterns are somehow connected is also completely un-founded. If you want to correlate preference for demagoguery in form of universal health care and a willingness to start expensive wars, look no further than George Bush. In that case, it was a negative correlation.

But the people who voted for Bush aren't the ones who voted for Universal Healthcare.

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09-09-2013 07:16 AM
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eradicator Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(09-09-2013 07:16 AM)Samseau Wrote:  
(09-09-2013 04:31 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  
Samseau Wrote:Also, universal healthcare was first tried in Germany's old weimar state back in 1883. 40 years later the entire state was bankrupt.

That's not a valid argument. Lots of stuff happened during those 40 years.... including the World War I and subsequent reparations. It is gross overestimation to say that this was due to universal health care. To say that voting patterns are somehow connected is also completely un-founded. If you want to correlate preference for demagoguery in form of universal health care and a willingness to start expensive wars, look no further than George Bush. In that case, it was a negative correlation.

But the people who voted for Bush aren't the ones who voted for Universal Healthcare.

A couple of things: we don't have universal health care with the affordable health care act. We have to all purchase health care now though, or pay the higher tax

the people that voted for Bush were the ones that thought we needed to bankrupt the country with wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to keep us safe.

The people that voted for Obama not only think we needed more debt for wars, but also obamacare.
09-09-2013 12:42 PM
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ElJefe Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
Enough about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq bankrupting. They cost at most 2 trillion dollars (so far)... at most 150bn in a given year. That's less than 1% of GDP. That's peanuts.

It was the tax-cuts, expanded welfare, wars and the unemployment combined that have got us into this mess. Obama is not fixing any of those problems, I'm sorry to say. Just exacerbating them.

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09-09-2013 12:50 PM
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NY Digital Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
^^ Your math is off.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/03/iraq-afgh...rs-report/

Not to mention, just look at the national debt increase from 2001 to 2012.

That's not just a simple coincidence.

The national debt has increased around $11 trillion since 2001.

From 5.8 to 16.8...


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(This post was last modified: 09-09-2013 01:09 PM by NY Digital.)
09-09-2013 01:07 PM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(09-09-2013 12:50 PM)ElJefe Wrote:  Enough about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq bankrupting. They cost at most 2 trillion dollars (so far)... at most 150bn in a given year. That's less than 1% of GDP. That's peanuts.

It was the tax-cuts, expanded welfare, wars and the unemployment combined that have got us into this mess. Obama is not fixing any of those problems, I'm sorry to say. Just exacerbating them.

That's 150 billion per year ON TOP OF all of the other military occupations the USA has since WW2. All in all our military spending is around 1/4 the total budget each year.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year...1n#usgs302

[Image: chart?cht=p3&chs=600x200&amp...0FY%202013]

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09-09-2013 11:04 PM
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ElJefe Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(09-09-2013 01:07 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  ^^ Your math is off.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/03/iraq-afgh...rs-report/

Not to mention, just look at the national debt increase from 2001 to 2012.

That's not just a simple coincidence.

The national debt has increased around $11 trillion since 2001.

From 5.8 to 16.8...

The costs you cite incl. estimated future costs.

Think of it like this: US economy produces about USD16 trillion worth of goods and services annually.

In today's figures, let's say the economy has produced a total of 120 trillion since 2001, which is probably a safe bet. Over the coming decade, another 130 trillion. In total, 250 trillion dollars over 20 years, which covers the time horizon of the projected 6 trillion dollar cost.

It's still only 2.4%. For a war, that's nothing.

Comparing defense spending to the Federal or any government's budget and using that as an indicator of welfare priorities is completely misleading, because you must relate it to the size of the overall economy to get the proper welfare comparison. If I pay 100 dollars in taxes, some 23 of that goes to defense. But I earn 600 dollars, of which 500 goes to "welfare" (housing, food, etc.). The question of Obamacare is not whether American government spends too little on health. America spends more on health per capita than any other nation, by a huge margin! The question is whether Obamacare will lead to a better, more efficient system where we can all save the costs of paper-pushers wihtout compromising quality.

As for Afghanistan and Iraq, they were not major wars. They were disastrous expeditions to impose foreign systems of government on a group of peoples least likely to condone such ideological crusades. The actual mission to topple Saddam and punish the Taliban for harboring Bin Laden were completed within weeks, and that's the kind of war America should fight, and when done, the big tank divisions should pack their bags and leave whoever is willing to try his hand at the rudder in place, be it an Iraqi general, exile politician, or a different clan.

You will find throughout history that imposing a new form of government upon a people acutely aware of their cultural boundaries, that they never asked for, will cause them to resist you at every turn. If that's your goal, you must be prepared to slaughter them in huge numbers over many decades and pay a high cost in blood and treasure. Of course that's not what we want to do... all we care about is some whacko who attacked us on our own soil. And instead of doing the obvious, which would be to annihilate the House of Saud and its Wahhabi minions, and replaced them with the more moderate Hashemites, which would've gutted global jihadism of its banker and led to the closing of extremist mosques and extremist schools throughout the whole world and put terrorist-cells worldwide out of business, Bush shielded his corrupt buddies in Riyadh and went after some goat-herders with 10x the balls of Saud. And we've only humiliated ourselves and emboldened our enemies.

A year from now you'll wish you started today
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2013 01:53 AM by ElJefe.)
09-15-2013 01:51 AM
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ElJefe Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(09-09-2013 11:04 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(09-09-2013 12:50 PM)ElJefe Wrote:  Enough about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq bankrupting. They cost at most 2 trillion dollars (so far)... at most 150bn in a given year. That's less than 1% of GDP. That's peanuts.

It was the tax-cuts, expanded welfare, wars and the unemployment combined that have got us into this mess. Obama is not fixing any of those problems, I'm sorry to say. Just exacerbating them.

That's 150 billion per year ON TOP OF all of the other military occupations the USA has since WW2. All in all our military spending is around 1/4 the total budget each year.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year...1n#usgs302

[Image: chart?cht=p3&chs=600x200&amp...0FY%202013]

321 billion on interest...

This country is so FUCKED

A year from now you'll wish you started today
09-15-2013 01:59 AM
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iknowexactly Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare
(10-22-2012 12:52 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  Cherry-picked stories are are poor arguments. I remember the AMA journal had an article about howBritain got better outcomes overall with less money than the USA. And the American doctors make MUCH more and are therefore motivated to support our system.

Here is more like that with Cancada:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_...ted_States

When you argue with emotions and personal stories in stead of logic, you are arguing like a woman, not like a manly Rightist.

More about the BS planted by insurance companies about how American system is great:

This is from the JAMA
http://silver.neep.wisc.edu/~lakes/iatrogenic.pdf
09-15-2013 06:02 AM
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eradicator Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Interesting article on opportunity costs of ObamaCare





Here is a bizarre commercial from the Koch brothers talking about how Obamacare means the government wants to look at their vaginas. Or something.
09-29-2013 03:15 PM
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