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The most RAW manosphere post I have ever read: Confessions of a Reformed Incel
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ImmoralPsychology Offline
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Post: #26
RE: The most RAW manosphere post I have ever read: Confessions of a Reformed Incel
You know, one of the biggest things that will change your life is accepting the belief that some quality women find you attractive enough to not just want a ljbf relationship.
12-25-2012 02:01 AM
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PhilE Offline
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Post: #27
RE: The most RAW manosphere post I have ever read: Confessions of a Reformed Incel
(12-23-2012 02:09 PM)ImmoralPsychology Wrote:  That article hurts to read. I can identify with those feelings very well. I had a period of incel in my life (though nowhere near that long) that was very difficult and felt a lot of those things myself. It's angering that everything that is told to you by the people you trust (yes, that includes media) is just so wrong.

And then one day it occurred to me -- I'm a fucking hypocrite and so is pretty much everyone else who goes through this.

I have in the past lamented, "why are the hottest chicks such bitches and care only about how good a guy looks, how much money he makes, etc...??? Shallow cunts. Fucking shallow cunts. If they just got to know me, they'd be in love with me. I'm really quite an interesting and funny guy. Girls who do know me well very often fall for me but they're not very hot. Some are fat, some ugly, some OK, some a little cute but none of them are beautiful. All I want is a beautiful girl to not be such a shallow cunt."

I've thought along these line myself and I've heard it said more than enough times. Movies are built around this premise. The unpopular guy who is in love with the cheerleader while his average-looking geeky female friend idly pines for him secretly. For years, the irony and hypocrisy didn't occur to me.

And then I got it. I'm no better than the hot bitches who passed me over for Mr. Hot Stud, or Mr. Jerk, or whoever.

So the guy that wrote that article, if he is sincere - not just trying to set up a PUA sell - I can't help but wonder how many fat, ugly chicks he hit on and got rejected by in all that time that he was "just looking for someone to love". He wants to pour acid over the faces of the bitches that ignored him while they went on to have ONS's with a more studly dude but how many girls would have loved for him to pay them a little attention and he didn't cuz they weren't hot enough for him? So much for altruism.

We are all the same this way. Every person in the world is hypergamous to the extent that they will trade up if they feel the benefit outweighs the costs. That isn't to say that every single guy will dump a 6 in looks for the 7 in looks because there's more to it than that. But when you take all the other stuff that goes along with it, the security of a stable relationship vs the risk of a new one, the trouble to having a high-maintenance girl vs a low-maintenance one -- when you take everything into consideration, everybody will trade up if a better deal is to be had.

Once you realize this - and that for as much a "nice guy" you consider yourself to be, you're really not as nice as you thought - you start to be more objective about it and fully understand why it's important to work out, look better, dress better, etc. You might not be born with the best genes or be the tallest guy or have a big bank account, but there are plenty of things you can do to bring yourself up from the 30th percentile to the 70th or 80th percentile of women's choices.

So does this guy, or any of us that have felt that way at one time or another, have the right to feel sorry for himself? Nope. Not unless you're open to dating that 200-lb chick and overlook her weight because she's just so damn cool and is so nice with a good heart. LOL


This is not true. A guy who is an 8, can not pull a woman who is an 8. I know this for a fact. In fact a lot of guys who are 7's or 8's date down. That is because a woman who is an 8 can get pull guys who are 9's, 10's (who obviously only want her for sex, but that doesnt matter) and she also get guys who are 6's and under but have either money/muscles/game etc..

My problem with women have not been rejecting men BELOW their level...its rejecting men EXACTLY ON THEIR LEVEL. In a lot of cases you will see women who are an OBVIOUS 6 or below rejecting men who are 8's. Its mind-boggling but it happens ALL THE TIME. so part of your statement is true, but only for men who are seeking women ABOVE their own level.
12-25-2012 02:43 AM
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Chiosboy90
Magic Bullets Offline
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Post: #28
RE: The most RAW manosphere post I have ever read: Confessions of a Reformed Incel
The whole ranking scale is kind of different for men to females for that matter. It seems largely influenced by the economic aspect. Females seems to use the mating game as a way to climb the economic ladder.
12-25-2012 03:51 AM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #29
RE: The most RAW manosphere post I have ever read: Confessions of a Reformed Incel
(12-25-2012 02:43 AM)PhilE Wrote:  This is not true. A guy who is an 8, can not pull a woman who is an 8. I know this for a fact. In fact a lot of guys who are 7's or 8's date down. That is because a woman who is an 8 can get pull guys who are 9's, 10's (who obviously only want her for sex, but that doesnt matter) and she also get guys who are 6's and under but have either money/muscles/game etc..

My problem with women have not been rejecting men BELOW their level...its rejecting men EXACTLY ON THEIR LEVEL. In a lot of cases you will see women who are an OBVIOUS 6 or below rejecting men who are 8's. Its mind-boggling but it happens ALL THE TIME. so part of your statement is true, but only for men who are seeking women ABOVE their own level.

The ridiculousness of rating systems aside, you're skipping the fact that these women aren't rejecting men on their level at all. She might think she's rejecting an "8." You might think she's rejecting an "8." But considering that men have far more ways to prove valuable beyond looks, he's probably not an "8" at all. A man that is a true "8," drawn from a combination of his looks and, even more important to a woman, personality and power, will not be rejected by a woman who is a supposed "8."

Looks is nowhere near all that makes a man. And men that are 9s and 10s in the marketplace of what makes men are not getting rejected by single, available women. I guarantee you that.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
12-25-2012 05:36 AM
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Beyond Borders Away
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RE: The most RAW manosphere post I have ever read: Confessions of a Reformed Incel
(12-23-2012 02:09 PM)ImmoralPsychology Wrote:  That article hurts to read. I can identify with those feelings very well. I had a period of incel in my life (though nowhere near that long) that was very difficult and felt a lot of those things myself. It's angering that everything that is told to you by the people you trust (yes, that includes media) is just so wrong.

And then one day it occurred to me -- I'm a fucking hypocrite and so is pretty much everyone else who goes through this.

I have in the past lamented, "why are the hottest chicks such bitches and care only about how good a guy looks, how much money he makes, etc...??? Shallow cunts. Fucking shallow cunts. If they just got to know me, they'd be in love with me. I'm really quite an interesting and funny guy. Girls who do know me well very often fall for me but they're not very hot. Some are fat, some ugly, some OK, some a little cute but none of them are beautiful. All I want is a beautiful girl to not be such a shallow cunt."

I've thought along these line myself and I've heard it said more than enough times. Movies are built around this premise. The unpopular guy who is in love with the cheerleader while his average-looking geeky female friend idly pines for him secretly. For years, the irony and hypocrisy didn't occur to me.

And then I got it. I'm no better than the hot bitches who passed me over for Mr. Hot Stud, or Mr. Jerk, or whoever.

So the guy that wrote that article, if he is sincere - not just trying to set up a PUA sell - I can't help but wonder how many fat, ugly chicks he hit on and got rejected by in all that time that he was "just looking for someone to love". He wants to pour acid over the faces of the bitches that ignored him while they went on to have ONS's with a more studly dude but how many girls would have loved for him to pay them a little attention and he didn't cuz they weren't hot enough for him? So much for altruism.

We are all the same this way. Every person in the world is hypergamous to the extent that they will trade up if they feel the benefit outweighs the costs. That isn't to say that every single guy will dump a 6 in looks for the 7 in looks because there's more to it than that. But when you take all the other stuff that goes along with it, the security of a stable relationship vs the risk of a new one, the trouble to having a high-maintenance girl vs a low-maintenance one -- when you take everything into consideration, everybody will trade up if a better deal is to be had.

Once you realize this - and that for as much a "nice guy" you consider yourself to be, you're really not as nice as you thought - you start to be more objective about it and fully understand why it's important to work out, look better, dress better, etc. You might not be born with the best genes or be the tallest guy or have a big bank account, but there are plenty of things you can do to bring yourself up from the 30th percentile to the 70th or 80th percentile of women's choices.

So does this guy, or any of us that have felt that way at one time or another, have the right to feel sorry for himself? Nope. Not unless you're open to dating that 200-lb chick and overlook her weight because she's just so damn cool and is so nice with a good heart. LOL

I really liked this post. Your brutal honesty with yourself and with your peers is refreshing and eye-opening. You're much more aware than most guys who've stumbled across game, that's for sure.

I would argue, however, that not all women, or people, will trade up for something "better" given the chance. History, even the history of the people around me growing up here in small-town America, is full of instances of women who find a good thing and dedicate. Who stick with it for the long run once they've found something they think is worth sticking to.

And I'm not talking for a few years. I'm talking for a lifetime.

See, it might not seem like it's possible when looking through the lens of modern society, but even in the relatively young country called America, you can see that loyalty exists just by looking at the older people who live among us, who've had wives stick at their side since they were high school sweethearts.

Even as men here in the manosphere maintain that women know no loyalty, I've witnessed for myself their insane ability to commit against all reason.

That's what the best women do.

Call me an optimist, but I think us men have this in us too. You're right that we have little right to complain because the truth is we have our own shallow agenda. But I think there's a lot of possibility out there for those who realize there's more to the world than just "game."

Here's the thing, the concept you've posted above is liberating and I commend you for it. Hell, I've probably just learned something from it myself. But at the same time, accepting and believing that we are all bound to an eternal mission to find "something better," that we should accept this to be the goal and the limit of all human interaction, can also truly limit your potential in life.

As an example, call me shallow, but I too enjoy a beautiful woman at my side. But I hope to someday reach an amount of enlightenment in my life (not a given by any means) where I can be happy with "pretty good" and stop trading up for a perfect that doesn't exist.

Maybe I'm fooling myself. But the point is that, as your post suggests without saying it, you won't find happiness in women. A sure path to unhappiness, on the other hand, is to search your whole life for a perfect woman that doesn't exist when women aren't the meaning of life to begin with.....................

A man who can accept this and be happy with what he's got, so he can divert his attention to other endeavors, is a man withe the potential to find peace....

Are we naturally inclined to always trade up? To always want more? Sure. Women? Probably them too. But we're also moral creatures capable of other modes of existence. Just look around you and you'll see that truth exemplified by men and women in all walks of life. The internet-based manosphere is young and misses this truth, in my opinion. We've got a long way to go....

Meanwhile, thanks again for your clarifying post.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 12-25-2012 07:07 AM by Beyond Borders.)
12-25-2012 06:47 AM
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Magic Bullets Offline
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Post: #31
RE: The most RAW manosphere post I have ever read: Confessions of a Reformed Incel
"The Way of the Superior Man" by David Deida is pretty much along those lines. I am reading it at the moment. I have shown at least one friend this article and he could definetly relate, I am about to show another friend hopefully he will pass it on. Periods of incel, can be a source of great strength, I occaissionally practise no fap. I think my dry spell has made me stronger as a male.
12-25-2012 07:09 AM
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