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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2951
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Below is another Reddit thread that was created by Bitfinex public relations guy ZaneTackett within about the past hour, and it pretty much states that Bitfinex is going to make a more official update tomorrow, but in the meantime, Bitfinex is currently considering a way to socialize losses amongst Bitfinex BTC holders.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/...ch/d64ow17


I don't really have a problem with socialized loss in the sense that Bitfinex would later pay back those "losers"... and I think that it is a bit irresponsible to cause the users to hold the bag...

Sure we are finding out some details, yet we still have to wait for more specifics, which seems to be scheduled to come out tomorrow.
08-04-2016 08:03 PM
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BBinger Offline
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Post: #2952
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-28-2016 10:42 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-28-2016 09:15 PM)BBinger Wrote:  So after the ethereum hard fork mess, I guess we can cross off the possibility of anyone sane wanting to hardfork Bitcoin.


I recall last fall that you were suggesting that chances for a Bitcoin hardfork were becoming greater and greater, and us bitcoin HODLers needed to prepare ourselves for such increasing likelihood of a hardfork. hahahaha.. times have changed a bit, no?


Yes, I agree that this Ethereum hardfork fiasco definitely lends evidence to some gambling that bitcoin should not want to employ -

I believe that I read somewhere that before the hardfork, Ethereum had achieve something close to 80% consensus that a hardfork would be the best direction...

In that regard, they kind of disregarded the 20% that were not in agreement, which causes even more momentum for defectors and really justifies that consensus needs to be a hell-of-a-lot higher than 80%-ish in order that dissension is way too small to gain any kind of meaningful momentum..

In this case, ETC, has a fairly reasonable position to at least hold its own for a while and maybe even to continue to gain support, and may successfully receive more and more material and important defections in the coming months.

Even though there are considerable material differences between Ethereum and bitcoin, this ETH hardfork and the ETC dissension is kind of playing out in similar ways as was projected that Bitcoin Core folks were arguing that Bitcoin did not want to experience.. now we see it and we study it and hopefully we learn some lessons.

Well not one that wasn't a scam, and even with the ethereum one there's a lot of insanity floating around wanting to push one. Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong is notably one of these founts of insanity.

Gotta have perspective, the piece on how these things work happened back in January 2015 well before the "core" developers started their doomsaying on the topic.
08-04-2016 08:16 PM
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BBinger Offline
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Post: #2953
RE: The Bitcoin thread
RE: Bitfinex, they were a scam in 2013 when their proprietor posted on Bitcointalk in 2013 under the username 2013 and the site just used a clone of the defunct Bitcoinica/Intersango codebase. They are probably still a scam today.
08-04-2016 08:27 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2954
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-04-2016 08:16 PM)BBinger Wrote:  
(07-28-2016 10:42 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-28-2016 09:15 PM)BBinger Wrote:  So after the ethereum hard fork mess, I guess we can cross off the possibility of anyone sane wanting to hardfork Bitcoin.


I recall last fall that you were suggesting that chances for a Bitcoin hardfork were becoming greater and greater, and us bitcoin HODLers needed to prepare ourselves for such increasing likelihood of a hardfork. hahahaha.. times have changed a bit, no?


Yes, I agree that this Ethereum hardfork fiasco definitely lends evidence to some gambling that bitcoin should not want to employ -

I believe that I read somewhere that before the hardfork, Ethereum had achieve something close to 80% consensus that a hardfork would be the best direction...

In that regard, they kind of disregarded the 20% that were not in agreement, which causes even more momentum for defectors and really justifies that consensus needs to be a hell-of-a-lot higher than 80%-ish in order that dissension is way too small to gain any kind of meaningful momentum..

In this case, ETC, has a fairly reasonable position to at least hold its own for a while and maybe even to continue to gain support, and may successfully receive more and more material and important defections in the coming months.

Even though there are considerable material differences between Ethereum and bitcoin, this ETH hardfork and the ETC dissension is kind of playing out in similar ways as was projected that Bitcoin Core folks were arguing that Bitcoin did not want to experience.. now we see it and we study it and hopefully we learn some lessons.

Well not one that wasn't a scam, and even with the ethereum one there's a lot of insanity floating around wanting to push one.

Yeah, I certainly was not intending to mischaracterize any of your representations regarding the bitcoin fork considerations in my attempt to summarize my memory... hahahahaha

I think that in the early days of the proposed bitcoin hardfork, there were quite a few persons giving benefits of the doubt to Gavin and some of the other backers of XT and Classic. Sure, there were accusations from the start asserting that Gavin et al were not acting in good faith, but I think in those early months Gavin had quite a bit of credibility.

On the other hand, I think that subsequently a larger and larger segment of the bitcoin community began to give less and less credit to him and other supporters of either the need for a blocksize limit increase and the way that XT and Classic were proposing to do it. Furthermore, there were more and more contradictions that seemed to be coming out with bigblocker assertions, and Gavin's credibility was undermined a lot more with his apparent lack of scrutiny in his siding with fellow big blocker, Craig Wright.



(08-04-2016 08:16 PM)BBinger Wrote:  Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong is notably one of these founts of insanity.

Armstrong is all over the place, and in recent days he seemed to have been engaged in a kind of truce when his exchange was coming under considerable attack for how it was treating the Ether matter - and some of the apparent losses that Coinbase suffered through some of that (right before the Bitfinex attack).


(08-04-2016 08:16 PM)BBinger Wrote:  Gotta have perspective, the piece on how these things work happened back in January 2015 well before the "core" developers started their doomsaying on the topic.

Surely, the various arguments are evolving and they are not going to completely go away. Scaling is an ongoing issue that is never completely resolved, even though there are likely some ways to cause it to have a less explosive and divisive impact during the times that the scaling arguments are presented.
08-04-2016 08:32 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2955
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-04-2016 08:27 PM)BBinger Wrote:  RE: Bitfinex, they were a scam in 2013 when their proprietor posted on Bitcointalk in 2013 under the username 2013 and the site just used a clone of the defunct Bitcoinica/Intersango codebase. They are probably still a scam today.

Well, they have turned into a bigger fucking scam then.

In about the last couple of years, they have been able to generate (and I think not just fake trading) the largest volume in BTC/USD trading. It is quite likely that the largest trader status will change, but it is certainly not guaranteed.

Currently, I am thinking that if Bitfinex is at least going through the motions to appear as if they are a legitimate exchange, then they gotta come up with a plan that proposes to nearly 100% cover their customers (even if it takes some time into the future to carry it out and even if they have no actual intention to actually carry out the 100% reimbursement).

If they come out with a plan that is less than 100% reimbursement, then they are likely to suffer a considerable risk of a run on the bank - not only in the form of existing account holders but also in terms of potential future account holders deciding to go somewhere else.
08-04-2016 08:38 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2956
RE: The Bitcoin thread
There seems to be plenty of skepticism regarding whether Bitfinex was really hacked or if this was just a set up for bitfinex folks to be able to steal some coins. On a personal level, I am considering the evidence to be fairly convincing that the hack that is being described by Bitfinex is appearing to be less and less plausible, and not only would the hack require some insider access, it is kind of seeming like it would almost require the access of one of the highest level Bitfinex insiders... Nonetheless, gotta take a lot of this info with a grain of salt.

Recent discussion of such:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comment...withdrawn/
08-05-2016 12:49 PM
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SunW Offline
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Post: #2957
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-04-2016 12:29 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  In some sense there may be some overlap with bitcoin and these various other cryptos, especially for example when we think about earlier this year as Ether prices were rising and while there were multiple proclamations from the Ethereum proponents concerning the supposed demise of bitcoin and ethereum as the supposed bitcoin 2.0... Even though I think some of those talking points were quite bullshit, these kinds of spreading of public ideas do cause market movements that can cause the reality that is being projected.

The existence of gold doesn't make silver useless. A person who says ether is going to conquer bitcoin is an ether maximalist like there are tons (heh) of gold maximalists. Right now they have the whole HF mess to worry about, so "replacing bitcoin" is a big-ass LOL.
08-05-2016 02:13 PM
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Post: #2958
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-05-2016 02:13 PM)SunW Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:29 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  In some sense there may be some overlap with bitcoin and these various other cryptos, especially for example when we think about earlier this year as Ether prices were rising and while there were multiple proclamations from the Ethereum proponents concerning the supposed demise of bitcoin and ethereum as the supposed bitcoin 2.0... Even though I think some of those talking points were quite bullshit, these kinds of spreading of public ideas do cause market movements that can cause the reality that is being projected.

The existence of gold doesn't make silver useless. A person who says ether is going to conquer bitcoin is an ether maximalist like there are tons (heh) of gold maximalists. Right now they have the whole HF mess to worry about, so "replacing bitcoin" is a big-ass LOL.


I agree that there was a lot of hyperbole in there, and I believe that some folks truly were beginning to believe some of that pie in the sky fantasy rhetoric, because it was frequently coupled with assertions that bitcoin cannot scale and ethereum can and bitcoin has governance issues while ethereum does not, etc, etc.

When a bitcoin HODLer would call bullshit on the Ethereum arguments, and assert that Ethereum was a pump and dump, they would be accused of failing to recognize value in Ethereum.

I personally believe that you can accuse an asset of being a pump and dump and also assert that it is likely over valued and flawed in various ways while at the same time recognizing that the other asset has its place and contributes to the space in a variety of ways. Currently, I am getting more and more of the sense that over time, ETC and ETH are going to move towards parity - but surely, there is so much going on in that space, that it is very tough to know for sure how all of it is going to play out.

And, also your overall point regarding relationship, there is likely some relationship of this Ethereum forking issue to bitcoin as well, and in support of that I have been seeing quite a few discussions regarding the forking of bitcoin in light of the ethereum fork, and really I think that it is nonsense concerning those discussions that attempt to argue that ethereum provides a positive model for bitcoin in that regard. Those folks proclaim to be pushing for the advancement of bitcoin, but in the end, those kinds of efforts seem to be balanced in favor of undermining attempts rather than advancing attempts.
08-05-2016 02:29 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2959
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Actually, even though Bitfinex has proclaimed to be coming out with some kind of FAQ today and maybe even a bit of a roadmap regarding where they plan to go, they have also been accused of stalling - including assertions that every day Bitfinex is asserting "tomorrow" they will reveal more.. blah blah blah.

I think that it is understandable that both specifying the proposed plan and possibly figuring out the extent of the damage and the ability to fix the matter (assuming that the whole matter is not fabricated) can take some time.

Nonetheless, Bitfinex did post a couple of updates today on their blog (one regarding phishing emails). Previously, I had not known about their blog.

http://blog.bitfinex.com/uncategorized/w...ng-emails/


http://blog.bitfinex.com/uncategorized/update/
08-05-2016 02:39 PM
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Adv8nturous Offline
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Post: #2960
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Know nothing about this except that a girl I was shagging in Bristol was the mistress of this Bitcoin scammer who owed £2million. The police net was gradually tightening around him and they were even harassing her as his bit on the side. She posted a 4 way video chat on YouTube where he was basically lying his ass off and stalling.
Through her I learnt he was a pathological liar and con man who was trying to evade serious trouble ie: the law.
08-05-2016 03:17 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2961
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-05-2016 03:17 PM)Adv8nturous Wrote:  Know nothing about this except that a girl I was shagging in Bristol was the mistress of this Bitcoin scammer who owed £2million. The police net was gradually tightening around him and they were even harassing her as his bit on the side. She posted a 4 way video chat on YouTube where he was basically lying his ass off and stalling.
Through her I learnt he was a pathological liar and con man who was trying to evade serious trouble ie: the law.

Are you trying to suggest that there is some kind of connection with scummery and bitcoin? I really doubt that there is any higher proportion of scummery in bitcoin than any other area of life - although bitcoin does facilitate payments and transfers of money in various ways - and not having to make those payments in person or through some of the legacy financial systems.

So this scummy scam guy is still free from the law? Is he a kind of computer whiz that is able to hide his bitcoin holdings? What else is happening with his bitcoin besides the assertion that he might own £2million-ish of them?
08-05-2016 03:43 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2962
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Within the past couple of hours we seemed to have gotten a bit of a more specific update from Bitfinex... Sure it is missing some specifics, but it is specific enough in order to provide some better ideas regarding what they are thinking. Here's a Reddit post description, but there is also a specific notice from them on their website.


http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments...ate_users/

In essence, the haircut for all users and all asset classes is a shade over 36%, and I was a bit surprised by the spreading the loss across all asset classes, but upon further reflection, it does seem to be a more fair way to keep the amount down to a lower amount while creating a system that seems to allow for the sucking in of all users into having a vested interest into the positive future performance of bitfinex by creating a bitfinex token that will likely be able to be traded in the future, but also have the potential of causing complete reimbursement in the future (kind of takes advantage of the gambling and trading tendencies of anyone who would be inclined to hold assets in a Bitfinex account)...


At this point, doesn't seem to be a dumb plan, and even seems a bit more bullish than other scenarios that could have played out.
08-06-2016 12:28 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
A nice short news interview (less than 4 minutes) regarding the status of three ETF filings (two for bitcoin and one for ETH).


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/201...etf-market
08-06-2016 01:51 PM
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Adv8nturous Offline
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Post: #2964
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Found the links!

Mate I have no idea about bit coin or its users , and the size/ scale of it as an asset. Fuck I don't even know the correct words I should be using here. I'm not shagging the chick anymore so I'm not gonna ask her out of the blue "oh yeah what happened there?"

I DID think some of you would find it interesting since it is to do with bit coin.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xzkt74Tvy68

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WTT5B4EhHDw

http://bitcoinsource.net/moolah-ceo-mint...n-kennedy/

http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/02/24/former...rested-uk/

What you make of it all is up to you but I reckon it must be of some interest given its Bitcoin territory. ( I didn't understand anything discussed in these links ? but I reckoned some of you would )
08-06-2016 03:59 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2965
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-06-2016 03:59 PM)Adv8nturous Wrote:  Found the links!

Mate I have no idea about bit coin or its users , and the size/ scale of it as an asset. Fuck I don't even know the correct words I should be using here. I'm not shagging the chick anymore so I'm not gonna ask her out of the blue "oh yeah what happened there?"

I DID think some of you would find it interesting since it is to do with bit coin.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xzkt74Tvy68

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WTT5B4EhHDw

http://bitcoinsource.net/moolah-ceo-mint...n-kennedy/

http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/02/24/former...rested-uk/

What you make of it all is up to you but I reckon it must be of some interest given its Bitcoin territory. ( I didn't understand anything discussed in these links ? but I reckoned some of you would )

I don't understand what value there would be to click on four random and supposedly bitcoin-related links, if you do not even know what they mean, or you do not know if they are valuable, and you don't even have any questions or comments about any of the underlying material(s).

In that regard, there is all kinds of bitcoin information on the internet, and what differentiates your supposedly bitcoin related links from any other random links on the internet - except for perhaps your mere representation that you believe those links to be possibly related to bitcoin, but you are not sure. Dodgy
08-06-2016 04:21 PM
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Post: #2966
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-04-2016 03:50 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Recently, a thread has been created on Reddit to attempt to crowd-source information pertaining to Bitfinex - and we can see that some of their information is NOT very public.... and accordingly, it is possible that some of their agents could fairly easily disappear off the face of the earth, if they wanted to either run away with bitcoins or run away from liabilities...


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comment...corporate/

The link to the below US government document was posted in another bitcoin forum thread, which kind of relates to my above post - attempting to gather formal factual (and maybe even legal) information about Bitfinex.

http://www.cftc.gov/idc/groups/public/@l...060216.pdf
08-07-2016 04:37 PM
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Post: #2967
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Both Bitstamp and Kraken use Bitgo, and at least Bitstamp asserts that they are going to continue with the use of Bitgo.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/aft...1470669567


Yesterday, Bitfinex went back online in a read only capacity, which allowed account holders to verify balances in their accounts, and to see the extent to which their Bitfinex accounts were affected.

I had an account there with funds in dollars, BTC and ETC. They did about a 36% reduction in each of my accounts, and issued me the equivalent value of BFX Omni coins, which they valued at $1 per coin. It remains a bit unclear how that BFX Omni coins is going to be treated in the future, and for my own account accounting purposes, I gave it about a $.01 value per coin. It is likely in the coming days that Bitfinex is going to go back live, and we will find out more information at that time regarding how they are going to treat the BFX coin and their initial restrictions on trading, deposits and withdrawals or any additional incentives that they may create.
08-08-2016 07:48 PM
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Adv8nturous Offline
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Post: #2968
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Alright you fucking little dipshit,

They're not >random< links, they're all on the same topic -surprise surprise- or I wouldn't have posted them.

You're not the only person who reads these threads although interestingly enough you seem to be the only the one who sees the value in responding to your own comments...

I was asked for clarification so I did the best I could. It may not interest you, but the fact that the guy was able to rip off $2million using Bitcoin could have been of interest to others.

I'm currently in Thailand, October in Australia, November in the Uk / Northern Europe. You wanna meet in any of those places I'm more than happy to. Pm me or let's organise it on the open forum. On the slim outside chance that someone as snide as you is actually harder than me then you'll find I can take a beating with the best of them. Or you can keep hiding behind your keyboard making your snarky comments.

Enjoy your peanut head/ lard ass/ pencil neck day (delete as applicable).

You soft little faggot.
08-08-2016 11:23 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2969
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-08-2016 11:23 PM)Adv8nturous Wrote:  Alright you fucking little dipshit,

That's a good start to demonstrate that you are in control of your reasoning and emotions.


(08-08-2016 11:23 PM)Adv8nturous Wrote:  They're not >random< links, they're all on the same topic -surprise surprise- or I wouldn't have posted them.

Yes. I stand by my earlier comment. Unless you have actually reviewed the links that you provided and you have some kind of question or description of what you are providing, the actual substance of the links remain "random" and non substantiated, even if they all "randomly" relate to something that could kind of seem like a bitcoin topic.


(08-08-2016 11:23 PM)Adv8nturous Wrote:  You're not the only person who reads these threads although interestingly enough you seem to be the only the one who sees the value in responding to your own comments...

More or less, I agree with this point, especially if you were to modify the comment to "mostly" rather than expressing absolutes.


(08-08-2016 11:23 PM)Adv8nturous Wrote:  I was asked for clarification so I did the best I could. It may not interest you, but the fact that the guy was able to rip off $2million using Bitcoin could have been of interest to others.


Sure, there was potentially some value in some of your comments, and it could have been even better if you had described some of the links that you provided or at least expressed some kind of focus (such as questions or concerns).


(08-08-2016 11:23 PM)Adv8nturous Wrote:  I'm currently in Thailand, October in Australia, November in the Uk / Northern Europe. You wanna meet in any of those places I'm more than happy to. Pm me or let's organise it on the open forum.

For what reason would we want to meet?

(08-08-2016 11:23 PM)Adv8nturous Wrote:  On the slim outside chance that someone as snide as you is actually harder than me then you'll find I can take a beating with the best of them. Or you can keep hiding behind your keyboard making your snarky comments.

You are suggesting some kind of physical confrontation? hahahahaha Seems a bit much regarding some comments from me on a thread regarding your lack of substantive comment or questions, no? And, even this post from you seems to have little to no substantive discussion.


(08-08-2016 11:23 PM)Adv8nturous Wrote:  Enjoy your peanut head/ lard ass/ pencil neck day (delete as applicable).

You soft little faggot.

Even if what you are saying were true, what does this have to do with anything in connection with our previous discussion that was bitcoin related, no?
08-09-2016 02:34 AM
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Adv8nturous Offline
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Post: #2970
RE: The Bitcoin thread
We live in different worlds my friend.

I won't put up with shit like that in person so I'm not gonna put up with it on the internet either.
And no, I don't have control of my emotions etc. in a lot of circumstances.

But someone who brings everything down to logical questions rather than fuck you this/ fuck you that and refuses to rise to my insults actually seems pretty harmless/ easy to get along with.

I just don't understand any of this Bitcoin stuff so I wasn't gonna comment more - it's just a personal anecdote that might lead people saying 'oh that bloke, ah yeah he was related to .. x, it shows that Bitcoin security is in danger from ..y

But the fact that I haven't got the first clue about Bitcoin doesn't mean the material isn't of interest : I thought if they looked at the links it would be of interest to others who, presumably, would understand it easily.

But now I'm repeating myself. I don't mind my comments being ignored or even disbelieved .. It just boils my piss when they're ridiculed.
08-09-2016 03:07 AM
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Post: #2971
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-09-2016 03:07 AM)Adv8nturous Wrote:  We live in different worlds my friend.

I won't put up with shit like that in person so I'm not gonna put up with it on the internet either.
And no, I don't have control of my emotions etc. in a lot of circumstances.

But someone who brings everything down to logical questions rather than fuck you this/ fuck you that and refuses to rise to my insults actually seems pretty harmless/ easy to get along with.

I just don't understand any of this Bitcoin stuff so I wasn't gonna comment more - it's just a personal anecdote that might lead people saying 'oh that bloke, ah yeah he was related to .. x, it shows that Bitcoin security is in danger from ..y

But the fact that I haven't got the first clue about Bitcoin doesn't mean the material isn't of interest : I thought if they looked at the links it would be of interest to others who, presumably, would understand it easily.

But now I'm repeating myself. I don't mind my comments being ignored or even disbelieved .. It just boils my piss when they're ridiculed.

If you take my earlier comments as ridicule, then that is likely on you.

I already pretty much stated that I have no intention to click on random bitcoin related links if there does not seem to be any question, concern or contextualization of any of the links.

To the extent that you are reading about bitcoin or paying attention to it, potentially you will have some kind of head start on a large number of folks who do not look into it at all.

By now, many folks have hear a variety of things about bitcoin, but do not take any further actions. I know folks like that.

Actually in about August/September 2013, I was researching into various investment mechanisms, and I came across some bitcoin information. Initially, I did not read about it at all or look into it, and more or less October/November 2013, I had committed to a variety of other investment strategies (non bitcoin investments).

In mid-to-late November 2013, I came across bitcoin again, and at that point, I decided to research further into bitcoin which caused me to create an initial investment plan including slowly dollar cost average investing (with some attempts at front loading to get some stake in the game), begin to invest while I continued to research into the matter. Six months later in about mid 2014, I tweaked my bitcoin investment plans, and since then, I have continued investing, periodically tweaking my plans and accumulating bitcoins.

Anyhow, if in the future, you continue to look into bitcoin and you want to discuss, feel free to post in this thread, and if you prefer someone besides me chime in, then just phrase your question, "anybody but JJG," and I will attempt to refrain from responding, but as you suggested earlier, if you were to phrase your question in such a "anybody but JJG" way, then you may run the risk, in this thread, of not get any response at all. hahahahaha
08-09-2016 03:41 AM
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Post: #2972
RE: The Bitcoin thread
7 day ban for Adv8nturous. We don't allow name calling.

Roosh
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08-09-2016 05:15 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2973
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Even though the analysis of the below linked post was released by Bitmex ( a competitor exchange), it provides some decent explanation concerning what the official explanation of what happened at Bitfinex and decent numbers concerning how Bitmex believes that bitfinex arrived at its socialized loss numbers of 36%.

https://blog.bitmex.com/youve-been-buttfinessed/


I think in the end of the article Bitmex goes a bit too far in their denigration of Bitfinex, their assessment of the bitfinex coin and their assessment of the future trading value and risk of Bitfinex.

Actually, even though Bitmex seems to imply that there could have been some internal shenanigans going on at Bitfinex, they do not go into any direct accusations of internal shenanigans or any attempt at explaining internal shenanigans.
08-09-2016 11:17 AM
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booshala Offline
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Post: #2974
RE: The Bitcoin thread
https://www.finextra.com/finextra-downlo...851711.pdf

135 page report that Credit Suisse put together. TLDR: BTC and especially the blockchain has some interesting potential, but it has an uphill struggle and they don't expect it to displace the huge industry players any time soon if at all.

Think it's important to try and ferret out what institutional players as well as everyday people think about cryptocurrency rather than fall into confirmation bias where I keep on looking for info to support my existing beliefs. I've been listening to Trace Mayer and Andreas Antonopolous a lot lately. Both extremely smart and persuasive champions of bitcoin, but it's easy to fall into the rabbit hole of drinking the admittedly delicious Kool-aid that they're selling without maintaining some perspective.

I'm bullish on BTC, but when I read accounts of how it's going to eventually rival the market cap of gold ($7 Trillion USD), I shake my head and wonder how that's ever going to happen. Gold's been around for thousands of years as an instrument of value/currency, it seems highly unlikely that BTC is going to mimic the value of something so ingrained in millenia of human culture in just a few years. Still, I guess people could never foresee the advent of the personal computer or the Internet, so I think there's a very small non-zero chance that something like this might happen.

After doing my due diligence, I'm banking much more on an eventual niche adoption of BTC - especially for remittances, contracts and P2P payments - that will hopefully take the market cap to something like an Intel or Cisco. Shiet, if it got to Apple's current market cap, we'd be sitting pretty at something like $37,000/BTC which would make this guy very, very happy. Could fall to scraps too if there are concerted efforts by the government to stymie the growth or promulgation of cryptos. Interesting times...
(This post was last modified: 08-11-2016 12:07 PM by booshala.)
08-11-2016 12:05 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2975
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-11-2016 12:05 PM)booshala Wrote:  https://www.finextra.com/finextra-downlo...851711.pdf

135 page report that Credit Suisse put together. TLDR: BTC and especially the blockchain has some interesting potential, but it has an uphill struggle and they don't expect it to displace the huge industry players any time soon if at all.

Think it's important to try and ferret out what institutional players as well as everyday people think about cryptocurrency rather than fall into confirmation bias where I keep on looking for info to support my existing beliefs. I've been listening to Trace Mayer and Andreas Antonopolous a lot lately. Both extremely smart and persuasive champions of bitcoin, but it's easy to fall into the rabbit hole of drinking the admittedly delicious Kool-aid that they're selling without maintaining some perspective.

I'm bullish on BTC, but when I read accounts of how it's going to eventually rival the market cap of gold ($7 Trillion USD), I shake my head and wonder how that's ever going to happen. Gold's been around for thousands of years as an instrument of value/currency, it seems highly unlikely that BTC is going to mimic the value of something so ingrained in millenia of human culture in just a few years. Still, I guess people could never foresee the advent of the personal computer or the Internet, so I think there's a very small non-zero chance that something like this might happen.

After doing my due diligence, I'm banking much more on an eventual niche adoption of BTC - especially for remittances, contracts and P2P payments - that will hopefully take the market cap to something like an Intel or Cisco. Shiet, if it got to Apple's current market cap, we'd be sitting pretty at something like $37,000/BTC which would make this guy very, very happy. Could fall to scraps too if there are concerted efforts by the government to stymie the growth or promulgation of cryptos. Interesting times...

Thanks a lot Booshla for the link to that article and your pointing out significant portions of it.

I agree with your point that getting some outside assessment can be valuable to recognize how bitcoin (or any other technology for that matter) may be playing out in the other circles.

Personally, I don't want to spend considerable time reading in detail a 135 page document, yet I did focus a little bit in on their identification of 13 barriers to bitcoin's mass adoption (starting on page 33), and the large majority of those criticisms were given much more weight than they deserve with little evidence to back them up.

I do believe however that about three and a half of their criticisms have some merit, and those are the points raised as 3, 8, 10, 11 & 12. O.k. Yeah, I list 5 points here;however, points 11 & 12 are only worth about half of a point together (therefore 3.5 points).

I'm not going to go through an analysis regarding what I believe to be wrong with the majority of their points, except to suggest that overall in their other lame criticisms they seem to fail/refuse to sufficiently recognize the value that is being brought to the space and the trade offs and developing that is ongoing.

Point 3) Regarding the extreme weakness of third-party risk and centralization. I agree that this is a problem with bitcoin, and likely to continue to be an ongoing problem, yet in some sense it is not really a problem with bitcoin the technology itself, merely the practice of entrusting third parties with bitcoin.

point 8) Regarding internal conflict and inertia. Sure, this is going to remain a problem with bitcoin for a while because in some sense it is a feature of bitcoin in being decentralized, and some of the internal conflict and inertia issues will be created on purpose by malicious parties. This is not going to go away for a while, and maybe their could be solutions at some point in the recognition and education of folks regarding difficulties in making changes to bitcoin without first going through the motions of persuading and achieving consensus, which admittedly is not easy in decentralized systems, and such strife issues is not likely to go away anytime soon..

Point 10) regarding regulatory risk. Yep, sure, various governments can act at any time to become hostile to bitcoin and with disparate enforcement. They kind of concede that currently the bag is regulatory risk is mixed, and surely, i will concede that this is likely to be an ongoing, shifting and contradictory aspect of bitcoin, especially when concedingly the bitcoin phenomenon itself remains disruptive.


Points 11 & 12) regarding irrecoverability and irreversibility - in my thinking, these are really the same point about lack of centralization. I don't really consider these to be much of a point.. and we could say a feature rather than a bug..
08-11-2016 05:25 PM
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