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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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Bill Brasky Offline
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Post: #4651
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-06-2017 09:04 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 08:56 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm wanting to take a break from day trading and have started loaning Ether on Bitfinex. I saw some of the BTC funding bids and several are paying well over 1000%, one as high as 8500% per DAY for about 4,500 bitcoins (roughly $11,000,000).

The loan periods are for about 2 days.

Is there something I am not reading correctly?


Maybe you can give a link or two, or send the link privately, because something does not sound right about that.

I do understand that there are a variety of ways to make money on your bitcoin, including loaning them out... I personally have not been engaging in such practices, but maybe some other RVF guys have been.
[Image: HKdj2Af.png]
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(This post was last modified: 07-06-2017 11:35 PM by Bill Brasky.)
07-06-2017 11:32 PM
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Post: #4652
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-06-2017 11:32 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:04 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 08:56 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm wanting to take a break from day trading and have started loaning Ether on Bitfinex. I saw some of the BTC funding bids and several are paying well over 1000%, one as high as 8500% per DAY for about 4,500 bitcoins (roughly $11,000,000).

The loan periods are for about 2 days.

Is there something I am not reading correctly?


Maybe you can give a link or two, or send the link privately, because something does not sound right about that.

I do understand that there are a variety of ways to make money on your bitcoin, including loaning them out... I personally have not been engaging in such practices, but maybe some other RVF guys have been.
[Image: HKdj2Af.png]
[Image: 8SYHAxv.png]


Are you having difficulties accessing the information, so maybe it is not legitimate information?
07-07-2017 12:16 AM
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Bill Brasky Offline
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Post: #4653
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-07-2017 12:16 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 11:32 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:04 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 08:56 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm wanting to take a break from day trading and have started loaning Ether on Bitfinex. I saw some of the BTC funding bids and several are paying well over 1000%, one as high as 8500% per DAY for about 4,500 bitcoins (roughly $11,000,000).

The loan periods are for about 2 days.

Is there something I am not reading correctly?


Maybe you can give a link or two, or send the link privately, because something does not sound right about that.

I do understand that there are a variety of ways to make money on your bitcoin, including loaning them out... I personally have not been engaging in such practices, but maybe some other RVF guys have been.
[Image: HKdj2Af.png]
[Image: 8SYHAxv.png]


Are you having difficulties accessing the information, so maybe it is not legitimate information?

I took screenshots of exactly what was on the bitfinex bid offer book but now the photos aren't showing. I'll repost tomorrow.
07-07-2017 12:38 AM
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Post: #4654
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-07-2017 12:38 AM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 12:16 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 11:32 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:04 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 08:56 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm wanting to take a break from day trading and have started loaning Ether on Bitfinex. I saw some of the BTC funding bids and several are paying well over 1000%, one as high as 8500% per DAY for about 4,500 bitcoins (roughly $11,000,000).

The loan periods are for about 2 days.

Is there something I am not reading correctly?


Maybe you can give a link or two, or send the link privately, because something does not sound right about that.

I do understand that there are a variety of ways to make money on your bitcoin, including loaning them out... I personally have not been engaging in such practices, but maybe some other RVF guys have been.
[Image: HKdj2Af.png]
[Image: 8SYHAxv.png]


Are you having difficulties accessing the information, so maybe it is not legitimate information?

I took screenshots of exactly what was on the bitfinex bid offer book but now the photos aren't showing. I'll repost tomorrow.

I have a bitfinex account.

Maybe I am a dumb, dumb because I cannot figure out how to employ the loaning feature?

https://support.bitfinex.com/hc/en-us/ar...g-funding-

Seems like it could be a decent deal to earn some extra cash, and I know that some others have been engaged in some variation of this.. maybe on other exchanges?

Some of us might need a bit better instruction about this at the 101 level.
07-07-2017 01:18 AM
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Bill Brasky Offline
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Post: #4655
RE: The Bitcoin thread
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07-07-2017 11:32 AM
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Bill Brasky Offline
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Post: #4656
RE: The Bitcoin thread
I'm new to this but the funding feature on Bitfinex is pretty straight foward. You can make loans with USD, BTC, ETH, and any of the other altcoins on Bitfinex.

The best part about this is that all rates are PER DAY with loans ranging from a minimum of 2 days to a maximum of 3 days.

1) The first thing you need to do is fund the account with either USD, USDT (goes into your USD wallet), BTC, ETH, XRP, and the several other coins. Please note that Bitfinex no longer accepts direct fiat deposits. If you want USD for example, you will need to either transfer USDT or convert BTC or any of the altcoins into dollars. Also note that you cannot transfer USD out of Bitfinex and I don't believe that you can buy USDT or convert back to USDT. Essentially, USD will never end up leaving Bitfinex accounts. This can be of some benefit as BTC, ETH, LTC sell for a discount than on the other exchanges.

2) You have three types of wallets which are exchange (normal trading), margin (trading on margin), and funding. You will want to deposit into the funding wallet.

3) You will then go to the funding page (click the funding tab next to Trading and OTC). Once here you can see the funding book which includes people putting their crypto up for loan or people wanting to borrow. You can use this as a guide to set the interest rate (always as a % per day) or you can click directly on an offer and it will populate the fields for you. Usually the people making offers want a lot of crypto or USD so if you don't have large stacks, you will need to make a bid with what you have. You will see that the loan offers can range from say 1BTC all the way up to BTCs in the thousands (tens of millions of dollars).

4) Input the amount that you want to receive as a percentage per day - remember that when a rate says something like .04 that it is not 4%. It will be written as .004 for calculations. Next, insert the period (min of 2 days, max of 30). Next insert the amount you want to loan.

5) Finally click Bid (the green button). Your bid will enter the funding book. Obviously the lower the rate, the greater the chances that someone will accept. Again, use the rates that other people are using to can an idea of what will likely be accepted buy a borrower.

USD is currently offering the best rates because USD is much more difficult to get into Bittrex and impossible to take out of Bittrex. Also, people are still pretty bullish on cryptos in general.

Risks:
Although the money you are loaning on Bitfinex is secured by the borrow's margin account, there are still risks.

If the exchange gets hacked, you could lose it all. If a borrower makes a margin trade that goes bad so quickly that the margin account is depleted and even after the position is forcibly closed, you could end up losing money if the borrower just decides to up and leave and not refill his account.

Like I said, these rates are per day. At .045892% per day, that comes to about 15.496% per annum.

Use this website when checking rates for cryptos. They also have a calculator which is useful.

https://www.bfxdata.com/calculators/

It goes without saying that this is not investment advice and never invest or loan which you could not comfortably lose.

I'm by no means a finance guy. If you see anything incorrect or if my math is bad, go ahead and correct.
07-07-2017 12:06 PM
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Post: #4657
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-07-2017 12:06 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm new to this but the funding feature on Bitfinex is pretty straight foward. You can make loans with USD, BTC, ETH, and any of the other altcoins on Bitfinex.

The best part about this is that all rates are PER DAY with loans ranging from a minimum of 2 days to a maximum of 3 days.

Thanks for the hand-holding. It seems that you may have assisted me to pop my funding cherry. I put in three offers for 7 days, just for shits and giggles.. and I put them in at a rate that is very close to the current range, so it is pretty likely that each of them will be filled.

Offer rates are:

BTC .037% per day (13.5% per annum)

USD .044% per day (16% per annum)

LTC .755% per day (274% per annum)

At this time, LTC seems to really be at a premium.... but when I started to post my offer had not filled...
I put my LTC offer at the lowest, but as I was typing this post I saw that there was an additional offer that had been added lower than mine...

Therefore, I placed another offer for:

LTC .745% per day (272% per annum)

My order filled as soon as I placed it, so I have LTC locked in for 7 days - and maybe that is a sign that LTC is likely to fall by an amount that is close to or exceeding my loan amount? Let's see if I make anything on this? I don't really sell anyhow, unless the price goes up, so if the price goes down, I don't tend to sell, even though I might buy, but my LTC buy orders are quite low, anyhow, as I recall.



Also, as I was finishing typing this post, some strange things happened with each of my offers.. each of them were accepted, so I thought that they would be locked in for 7 days... however, they each cancelled too.. What bullshit, so I replaced them. If they do not lock in, then this is going to be a big fucking waste of time to continue to have to monitor and reset the orders if they get cancelled, unless there is some kind of trick to locking these in?




(07-07-2017 12:06 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  1) The first thing you need to do is fund the account with either USD, USDT (goes into your USD wallet), BTC, ETH, XRP, and the several other coins. Please note that Bitfinex no longer accepts direct fiat deposits. If you want USD for example, you will need to either transfer USDT or convert BTC or any of the altcoins into dollars. Also note that you cannot transfer USD out of Bitfinex and I don't believe that you can buy USDT or convert back to USDT. Essentially, USD will never end up leaving Bitfinex accounts. This can be of some benefit as BTC, ETH, LTC sell for a discount than on the other exchanges.

Regarding USD deposits and withdrawals at Bitfinex, it is not a "never" proposition, but it is something that they appear to continue to work on. Their latest announcement on the topic was May 12. It is not inconceivable that they might figure out some additional options for an increasing number of their customers, which certainly affects the price dynamics on their exchange, as you have already described.

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/203




(07-07-2017 12:06 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  2) You have three types of wallets which are exchange (normal trading), margin (trading on margin), and funding. You will want to deposit into the funding wallet.

3) You will then go to the funding page (click the funding tab next to Trading and OTC). Once here you can see the funding book which includes people putting their crypto up for loan or people wanting to borrow. You can use this as a guide to set the interest rate (always as a % per day) or you can click directly on an offer and it will populate the fields for you. Usually the people making offers want a lot of crypto or USD so if you don't have large stacks, you will need to make a bid with what you have. You will see that the loan offers can range from say 1BTC all the way up to BTCs in the thousands (tens of millions of dollars).

4) Input the amount that you want to receive as a percentage per day - remember that when a rate says something like .04 that it is not 4%. It will be written as .004 for calculations. Next, insert the period (min of 2 days, max of 30). Next insert the amount you want to loan.

5) Finally click Bid (the green button). Your bid will enter the funding book. Obviously the lower the rate, the greater the chances that someone will accept. Again, use the rates that other people are using to can an idea of what will likely be accepted buy a borrower.


I think that everything that you said is very helpful - except the terms are receive (green) and offer (red).

If you are loaning out your crypto or dollars, then you do the offer (red) and you receive the interest. If you do the receive (green), then you pay the interest and receive the crypto/money as a loan.


(07-07-2017 12:06 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  USD is currently offering the best rates because USD is much more difficult to get into Bittrex and impossible to take out of Bittrex. Also, people are still pretty bullish on cryptos in general.

Initially, I only looked at which crypto I hold on that exchange, but after browsing through the rates, it appears that currently both Dash and EOS have decent rates.

Dash .14% per day (51% per annum)

EOS .12% per day (44% per annum)



(07-07-2017 12:06 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  Risks:
Although the money you are loaning on Bitfinex is secured by the borrow's margin account, there are still risks.

If the exchange gets hacked, you could lose it all. If a borrower makes a margin trade that goes bad so quickly that the margin account is depleted and even after the position is forcibly closed, you could end up losing money if the borrower just decides to up and leave and not refill his account.

There may be some additional risks, but after thinking about this a little bit, there is some risk in having your crypto or dollars tied up for whatever period that you chose.. and there is certainly potential that you could miss out on some market moves in which you might do better to sell whatever asset you are loaning out... I personally don't consider that risk to be too great because so far, I am only tying up a portion of the crypto that I am loaning.. just to experiment with this process.





(07-07-2017 12:06 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  Like I said, these rates are per day. At .045892% per day, that comes to about 15.496% per annum.

Use this website when checking rates for cryptos. They also have a calculator which is useful.

https://www.bfxdata.com/calculators/

It goes without saying that this is not investment advice and never invest or loan which you could not comfortably lose.

I'm by no means a finance guy. If you see anything incorrect or if my math is bad, go ahead and correct.

Sure, we have to do our calculations and consider our own finances in these matters, including how much time we might want to spend on these activities.
07-07-2017 03:35 PM
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Post: #4658
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Quote:Also, as I was finishing typing this post, some strange things happened with each of my offers.. each of them were accepted, so I thought that they would be locked in for 7 days... however, they each cancelled too.. What bullshit, so I replaced them. If they do not lock in, then this is going to be a big fucking waste of time to continue to have to monitor and reset the orders if they get cancelled, unless there is some kind of trick to locking these in?

The minimum and maximums are for the person making the loan. The loans, from my understanding, are compounded hourly and can be paid back and closed at any time. Most of the time, no one is manually picking out loans from the funding book. It is done automatically when someone buys or sells on margin. Money is automatically paid back with interest (compounded hourly) when the position is closed.

Also note that Bitfinex takes 10% of any interest.
07-07-2017 07:28 PM
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Post: #4659
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-07-2017 07:28 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  
Quote:Also, as I was finishing typing this post, some strange things happened with each of my offers.. each of them were accepted, so I thought that they would be locked in for 7 days... however, they each cancelled too.. What bullshit, so I replaced them. If they do not lock in, then this is going to be a big fucking waste of time to continue to have to monitor and reset the orders if they get cancelled, unless there is some kind of trick to locking these in?

The minimum and maximums are for the person making the loan. The loans, from my understanding, are compounded hourly and can be paid back and closed at any time. Most of the time, no one is manually picking out loans from the funding book. It is done automatically when someone buys or sells on margin. Money is automatically paid back with interest (compounded hourly) when the position is closed.

Also note that Bitfinex takes 10% of any interest.

Seems a bit strange to me because I would think that anyone who borrows money should have to pay at least a minimum of the shortest compounding period.. if that is an hour, then so be it.

I did not receive anything, and I had to reopen the loans about 3 times on each of them.. that is about 9 times in total.. and currently they seem to be sticking .. maybe about 3 or 4 hours after I initiated them... so yeah, this early payment coud screw things up, and if I do not earn any money on them, or if I earn very little, then I will stop doing it - even though I already spent a couple of hours playing around and attempting to learn about this.

BillB: have you earned any interest in this loaning system, yet? If so, which one(s) did you lend and how long did the position(s) stay open?
07-07-2017 08:04 PM
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Post: #4660
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Are we bored yet?


I know that some guys would like to panic, but the fact of the matter is that for about a week and a half, we are still in the $2350 to $2700.... range.. about in the middle of the range

Don't panic yet... gosh.. we are approximately in the middle - except maybe a tad edging towards to the lower 1/3rd of the range... $2450 to $2500 as I type...

We have been here for a bit more than a week and a half... and maybe we could even argue longer than that in spite of short-lived break outs in both directions, and historically we were only breaking into this price territory a bit more than 6 weeks ago, no?

On the other hand, Ethereum and various other alts, seem to be experiencing a kind of slow bleeding.. not necessarily at the blood bath level, yet.. but then in recent months we have been seeing considerably greater extremes with Ethereum - both on the upside and the downside. so it should not be written off, yet.. and furthermore... the whole relationship of other cryptos remain so damned ambiguous, in an ongoing way whether some folks might be cashing out of some alts into bitcoin or into cashing out into fiat and whether any of these kinds of cashings out is anything beyond short-term...

The trend can be your friend, yet you gotta kind of have a grasp upon it...

I have a difficult enough time in the consideration of bitcoin on it's own, but when I try to figure out bitcoin's price dynamics while considering the alts, relative to bitcoin, my head starts to hurt a bit.... just gotta keep watching and maybe at some point a trend can be identified and called as being some kind of framework for considering where we are going or where we have been.....

I have asserted before, and it does seem to be playing out, somewhat, that both the upside and the downside of the alts are likely to be greater than bitcoin.. and we could possibly be witnessing a kind of downside is greater break out in regards to the alts.. at least on some kind of a preliminary level? Surely, I am not making any kind of novel assertion, here... and then thinking if the alts crash, will they bring bitcoin with it?

In regards to bitcoin prices, I think that I am gravitating a bit towards the 50/50 arena - in terms of whether the breakout of the $2350 to $2700 range is going to be up or down. At this moment, as I type, I might be inclined 52% up and 48% down.

Oh by the way, there seems to be a kind of consensus that Bitmain, et al might be playing games with the segwit2x situation in order to divert folks from the UASF - that might impose segwit... .. so we gotta see how many of them actually start to run segwit2x rather than expressing an "intention".. segwit2x software still being tested and still not available.
07-07-2017 09:22 PM
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Post: #4661
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-07-2017 08:04 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 07:28 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  
Quote:Also, as I was finishing typing this post, some strange things happened with each of my offers.. each of them were accepted, so I thought that they would be locked in for 7 days... however, they each cancelled too.. What bullshit, so I replaced them. If they do not lock in, then this is going to be a big fucking waste of time to continue to have to monitor and reset the orders if they get cancelled, unless there is some kind of trick to locking these in?

The minimum and maximums are for the person making the loan. The loans, from my understanding, are compounded hourly and can be paid back and closed at any time. Most of the time, no one is manually picking out loans from the funding book. It is done automatically when someone buys or sells on margin. Money is automatically paid back with interest (compounded hourly) when the position is closed.

Also note that Bitfinex takes 10% of any interest.

Seems a bit strange to me because I would think that anyone who borrows money should have to pay at least a minimum of the shortest compounding period.. if that is an hour, then so be it.

I did not receive anything, and I had to reopen the loans about 3 times on each of them.. that is about 9 times in total.. and currently they seem to be sticking .. maybe about 3 or 4 hours after I initiated them... so yeah, this early payment coud screw things up, and if I do not earn any money on them, or if I earn very little, then I will stop doing it - even though I already spent a couple of hours playing around and attempting to learn about this.

BillB: have you earned any interest in this loaning system, yet? If so, which one(s) did you lend and how long did the position(s) stay open?

Yes but not much. I'm going to try to get some USDT to transfer or buy BTC and immediately switch to USD in bitfinex. I'll need to put a lot in to make it worth my while. Not interested in getting 5 cent returns after an hour.
07-07-2017 11:17 PM
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Post: #4662
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Today I got the feeling that alts are going to come down, but slowly. I am familiar with a couple alts a lot more than all the others, and their behavior, and it looks like we may be in for a slow but steady decrease in alts over the next 6-8 months, or possibly even 12.

Whether BTC goes down with them is the question. Previously, inverse relationship between alts/BTC was the case, common sense since they're all priced in BTC terms anyway. But recently we had the phenomenon of BTC increasing with alts increasing also in BTC terms, so a double increase.

Previous behavior has seen the inverse relationship between certain important alts and BTC be restored. I don't think LTC is necessarily one of these, so I'm talking about other alts here.

That's my hope anyway. Accumulate powder and when the alts are near your target lows start buying. If BTC keeps going up then you won't be able to buy that. But if the inverse relationship does not transpire, then BTC will be lower and there may be opportunities there as well. So yeah, my tentative prediction and hope is that alts slowly head down over the next 6-8 months giving us another opportunity to get in to the ones we believe hold upside i.e. will be pumped again at some point.
07-08-2017 03:38 PM
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Post: #4663
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-08-2017 03:38 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  Today I got the feeling that alts are going to come down, but slowly. I am familiar with a couple alts a lot more than all the others, and their behavior, and it looks like we may be in for a slow but steady decrease in alts over the next 6-8 months, or possibly even 12.

Whether BTC goes down with them is the question. Previously, inverse relationship between alts/BTC was the case, common sense since they're all priced in BTC terms anyway. But recently we had the phenomenon of BTC increasing with alts increasing also in BTC terms, so a double increase.

Previous behavior has seen the inverse relationship between certain important alts and BTC be restored. I don't think LTC is necessarily one of these, so I'm talking about other alts here.

That's my hope anyway. Accumulate powder and when the alts are near your target lows start buying. If BTC keeps going up then you won't be able to buy that. But if the inverse relationship does not transpire, then BTC will be lower and there may be opportunities there as well. So yeah, my tentative prediction and hope is that alts slowly head down over the next 6-8 months giving us another opportunity to get in to the ones we believe hold upside i.e. will be pumped again at some point.

I have some conceptual difficulties to place too much weight in expectations based on historical patters unless the variables are sufficiently similar in time 3 as they were in time 2 and time 1.

Sure, I agree with your assertion that a large number of the alts are likely overly pumped without any kind of meaningful fundamental foundation, beyond the mere hype and speculative momentum that they were receiving - coupled with a certain amount of reverse momentum that might cause the pumpers to dump out of them when they recognize that the uptrend might be reversing.

On the other hand, currently, there is not any easy road back to a historical place in which bitcoin has 90% of the market share because some of those dynamics have been broken. Sure, it is possible to go back to 90% dominance, but is not the easy and more obvious path in the short to medium term - though the longer term could be possible but very contingent upon how a variety of currently unknown events play out.

So, the crypto space has changed quite a bit with a certain amount of foundational developments and building up of various shit coins - and even if there is a lot of smoke and mirrors, there is a certain quantity of infrastructure that has been built too around both shit and non-shit crypto projects. We cannot ignore that infrastructure and assume that it is all shit.. even though it is possible to play out in that direction.

You seem to be putting LTC on a higher pedestal than a variety of alts - however, LTC has quite a few limitations, too.. Sure, LTC has found some recent pumping based on some recent use cases to serve as a kind of testnet for bitcoin and even some greater attention from it's founder, development team and marketing.. but in the end, it is questionable how much of a role it is going to play in the future based on its being so closely similar to bitcoin.. It is almost like the ETH/ETC relationships.. nearly, the same thing with a few twists.

In the end, we have quite a few dynamics at play with some crypto coins and some crypto projects having more influence than others.

Look at coinmarketcap, we have 7 cryptos, including bitcoin and ethereum, listed with market caps over $1billion, and several billion in some cases.

http://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/

We have an additional 37 cryptos listed with marketcaps over $100 million... Those are not chump change amounts for any of those projects, and they can have many difficult to predict contributions to the space whether they are affecting the more major coins or the cryptospace as a whole.

How many fucking projects can any of us follow? and even some of the projects that have way smaller market caps can become very influential and move into the BIGGER player space. There are well over 250 cryptos with market caps of more than $1million. Surely, some of them are snow jobs, but even some of the smaller projects can end up with some innovations and affects on the thinking and the dynamics of the space, no? some of those smaller projects could get absorbed into bigger projects, too.

I do get the sense that you are suggesting that we are currently in the beginning of the end of alts, and I really have difficulties seeing that, even if globally, there is an additional 70% crash of alts, some of them are going to crash less and contribute - and I have a hard time considering that bitcoin would be shooting up in such an environment.. so in that regard, if we got something like a 70% drop in the overall alts, probably the better case scenario would be that bitcoin could go up to $4k at most.. .. but yeah, my thinking could be way off because I am thinking that the next pump of bitcoin might also include some various scammy, confusing pupbs of various other alts.. that would likely get pumped in great percentages, too.
07-08-2017 05:02 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
Jay what do you mean market caps?
07-08-2017 07:30 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-08-2017 07:30 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Jay what do you mean market caps?

The market cap amounts are listed for each of the cryptos on the linked website that I provided in my earlier post.

For the most part, marketcap = price of the crypto multiplied by total number of coins.

Sometimes marketcap can be dickered around a little bit when some of the cryptos engage in a practice to restrict the quantity of their coins available in order to make it easier to pump the price and to cause their market cap to appear larger than it would be if they had not restricted supply of available coins.
07-08-2017 07:45 PM
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Bill Brasky Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
Below is a decent blog that gives some good descriptions of Bitcoin as well as the other alts. I've made a rule of investing in something only if I have read the whitepaper, at a minimum and I suggest the same for anyone else. However, you can read this blog to get a superficial, layperson's insight as to what these various projects are all about. It's good for a starting point.

https://dontpanicsell.com/
07-08-2017 09:13 PM
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Bill Brasky Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
I'm going to post this here even though it's not BTC. Has anyone seen this Veritaseum altcoin? It is currently at 18 in terms of market cap https://coinmarketcap.com/assets/veritaseum/.

I cannot believe that this thing actually has any money in it let alone $337,000,000 plus. The website is absolute garbage and looks like a shitty landing page for a "make money from home, I'll show you how" site. It looks like someone used Godaddy website builder.

This coin alone makes me a bit skeptical of the methodology for which coinmarketcap is basing the marketcaps of these coins.

It's not even on any of the major exchanges.

Anyone have any info about this alt?
07-08-2017 09:19 PM
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Bill Brasky Offline
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Post: #4668
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Update:

In the past 4 days of lending I have made a grand total of 50 cents although I have not lent that much money.

Ethereum funding rates have shot up to .06% per day but only for the high volumes.

I'd say to make it worth your time you would want to be lending out about $100,000 worth of Ethereum. You could make about $60 per day ($1800 per month). Unfortunately for me I do not have $100,000.

I might go ahead and scrap this thing as there have been some serious dips over the past few days in several alts and now they are making their usual comebacks. Once I get some serious cash, I'll start lending but only once I can afford to lose it.

Don't forget that Bitfinex has been hacked once already although this might make it an even safer place to trade and fund since security has been upped.

Also of note to fellow cryptophiles, BTC and ETH on Bitfinex sell at a discount due to their issues with getting USD inside. One could put say $100,000 into tether and get it into Bitfinex and buy at a discount. Sometimes the spread is about $50-60 less than GDAX.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2017 10:10 PM by Bill Brasky.)
07-08-2017 10:07 PM
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Isaac Jordan Offline
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Post: #4669
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-08-2017 09:19 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm going to post this here even though it's not BTC. Has anyone seen this Veritaseum altcoin? It is currently at 18 in terms of market cap https://coinmarketcap.com/assets/veritaseum/.

I cannot believe that this thing actually has any money in it let alone $337,000,000 plus. The website is absolute garbage and looks like a shitty landing page for a "make money from home, I'll show you how" site. It looks like someone used Godaddy website builder.

This coin alone makes me a bit skeptical of the methodology for which coinmarketcap is basing the marketcaps of these coins.

It's not even on any of the major exchanges.

Anyone have any info about this alt?

Hah, funny you should post that. I too was looking at their site just a few hours ago after noticing they had crept up into the top twenty on CMC.

Couldn't agree more with your analysis, looks like complete shit. Probably an elaborate ponzi scheme with some wealthy backers who put in just enough money to trick folks into thinking it's legit, then they let crowd psychology work its magic before cashing out. Looks like they'll make quite a bit of money when they do.

Kinda makes you wish YOU had thought of that, no?
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2017 10:54 PM by Isaac Jordan.)
07-08-2017 10:51 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-08-2017 10:51 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 09:19 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm going to post this here even though it's not BTC. Has anyone seen this Veritaseum altcoin? It is currently at 18 in terms of market cap https://coinmarketcap.com/assets/veritaseum/.

I cannot believe that this thing actually has any money in it let alone $337,000,000 plus. The website is absolute garbage and looks like a shitty landing page for a "make money from home, I'll show you how" site. It looks like someone used Godaddy website builder.

This coin alone makes me a bit skeptical of the methodology for which coinmarketcap is basing the marketcaps of these coins.

It's not even on any of the major exchanges.

Anyone have any info about this alt?

Hah, funny you should post that. I too was looking at their site just a few hours ago after noticing they had crept up into the top twenty on CMC.

Couldn't agree more with your analysis, looks like complete shit. Probably an elaborate ponzi scheme with some wealthy backers who put in just enough money to trick folks into thinking it's legit, then they let crowd psychology work its magic before cashing out. Looks like they'll make quite a bit of money when they do.

Kinda makes you wish YOU had thought of that, no?

I think most of the people that get into this space are actually pretty smart. However, Greater Fool Theory applies in that smart people will buy shitty investments in hopes that they can profit off the greater fool to their side.

I'll admit that I have gotten involved in things I knew were bullshit but thought that I was getting in at the top.

A friend of a friend had this ponzi scheme with jet-coin.com. It was a double your bitcoin type of thing. I put about .5 BTC in and got about half of that back. They completely stopped paying about 3 weeks ago and probably made off with a boatload of BTC. I knew damn well that it was a ponzi scheme but thought that I was getting in at the start, which I actually was but the start to finish was about 2 months. Lost about $700 in bitcoin but it was a decent learning experience.

Anyways, I'd like to say that I'm above these sorts of scams and fake ICO bullshit but the draw of easy money is very seductive.

I'm really trying to do this crypto thing right and not get into the whole FOMO, lambo, and to the moon mentality because I know with 100% certainty that the next wave of billionaires will be made in this space. Whether it is in BTC or another crypto, we'll have to see.
07-08-2017 11:46 PM
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SamuelBRoberts Offline
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Post: #4671
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-08-2017 11:46 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  A friend of a friend had this ponzi scheme with jet-coin.com. It was a double your bitcoin type of thing. I put about .5 BTC in and got about half of that back. They completely stopped paying about 3 weeks ago and probably made off with a boatload of BTC. I knew damn well that it was a ponzi scheme but thought that I was getting in at the start, which I actually was but the start to finish was about 2 months. Lost about $700 in bitcoin but it was a decent learning experience.

And I felt bad about buying into ETH at 340$...
07-09-2017 12:47 AM
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Stun Offline
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Post: #4672
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-08-2017 03:38 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  Today I got the feeling that alts are going to come down, but slowly. I am familiar with a couple alts a lot more than all the others, and their behavior, and it looks like we may be in for a slow but steady decrease in alts over the next 6-8 months, or possibly even 12.

Whether BTC goes down with them is the question. Previously, inverse relationship between alts/BTC was the case, common sense since they're all priced in BTC terms anyway. But recently we had the phenomenon of BTC increasing with alts increasing also in BTC terms, so a double increase.

Previous behavior has seen the inverse relationship between certain important alts and BTC be restored. I don't think LTC is necessarily one of these, so I'm talking about other alts here.

That's my hope anyway. Accumulate powder and when the alts are near your target lows start buying. If BTC keeps going up then you won't be able to buy that. But if the inverse relationship does not transpire, then BTC will be lower and there may be opportunities there as well. So yeah, my tentative prediction and hope is that alts slowly head down over the next 6-8 months giving us another opportunity to get in to the ones we believe hold upside i.e. will be pumped again at some point.

My unproven theory for this change in relationship is the new money in crypto. I think the market used to be almost entirely pro day traders, who were more inclined to move to alts when Bitcoin was getting beat up, and back to BTC when alts were down.

Now, we have a lot more new investors who are jumping on to Coinbase, buying bitcoin, and then sending it over to Poloniex to trade on rumors of XYZ shitcoin going 100x. These folks are not comfortable losing money, so when they inevitably lose on trades, they panic and sell alts back into BTC, and then BTC back into cash. This keeps both alts and Bitcoin low (or high during buy back.)

I'd like to see Bitcoin get dropped down to $1800 on Segwit uncertainty, and the alts get absolutely crushed, which would hopefully shake all this money out of the space, and it could go back to being controlled by more regular traders. That should restore the Alt-Bitcoin relationship. The problem is, BTC is so gad damn bullish that it might never see $1800 again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdhFJ5uArUc
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 04:24 AM by Stun.)
07-09-2017 04:22 AM
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Post: #4673
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-08-2017 10:51 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 09:19 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm going to post this here even though it's not BTC. Has anyone seen this Veritaseum altcoin? It is currently at 18 in terms of market cap https://coinmarketcap.com/assets/veritaseum/.

I cannot believe that this thing actually has any money in it let alone $337,000,000 plus. The website is absolute garbage and looks like a shitty landing page for a "make money from home, I'll show you how" site. It looks like someone used Godaddy website builder.

This coin alone makes me a bit skeptical of the methodology for which coinmarketcap is basing the marketcaps of these coins.

It's not even on any of the major exchanges.

Anyone have any info about this alt?

Hah, funny you should post that. I too was looking at their site just a few hours ago after noticing they had crept up into the top twenty on CMC.

Couldn't agree more with your analysis, looks like complete shit. Probably an elaborate ponzi scheme with some wealthy backers who put in just enough money to trick folks into thinking it's legit, then they let crowd psychology work its magic before cashing out. Looks like they'll make quite a bit of money when they do.

Kinda makes you wish YOU had thought of that, no?

If you're buying tokens based on whether or not they have a shiny PR kit attached, then you may want to rethink your strategy.

Veritaseum as a company does cryptocurrency analysis and is developing a blockchain-agnostic trading platform to disintermediate the global counterparty risk system that right now is controlled by banks.

The VERI token is not an equity stake in the company. It can either be exchanged for analysis reports or used for access to the Veritaseum platform once it is released.

So unlike shitcoins, VERI actually has a material product now, with more coming in the future. Also, the company already has institutional and sovereign commitments to its technology, as well as patents pending.

Edit: There are reasons the VERI token does not trade on the major exchanges right now, one of which is that Veritaseum is developing a technology that will effectively compete with the extant exchanges.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 12:14 PM by MidJack.)
07-09-2017 12:10 PM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #4674
RE: The Bitcoin thread
I recently purchases $300 (USD) worth of Ethereum. I am thinking of buying some more.

Do you guys think Ethereum is a good investment, or is Bitcoin the way to go?
07-09-2017 12:19 PM
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Stun Offline
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Post: #4675
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-09-2017 12:19 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  I recently purchases $300 (USD) worth of Ethereum. I am thinking of buying some more.

Do you guys think Ethereum is a good investment, or is Bitcoin the way to go?

Look at the daily chart for Ethereum and tell me what you think?

To me it looks like a downtrend, and I will personally be waiting for a confirmed reversal before buying. There are more experienced investors than I here, though. There is also an Ethereum thread https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-62546-page-53.html.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdhFJ5uArUc
07-09-2017 01:39 PM
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