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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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Wingman
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Post: #7401
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(01-11-2019 12:56 AM)Roosh Wrote:  I've been getting more interested in Bitcoin the past couple of months as I've been watching financial services shut down dissidents. In the 2017 bull run, I was more interested in it as an investment, but now I'm looking at it from the perspective of a free speech currency. I already accept Bitcoin in my book store (and Litecoin).

Many European cities have Bitcoin ATMs that will allow me to sell Bitcoin at a fee of less than 5%, which I can use for food and rent. If around a quarter of my regular customers obtain Bitcoin to buy my books after a shut down, I should be able to continue operations in a worse-case scenario. Right now, a percentage far less than that uses crypto at my store.

If possible, buy a BTC ATM and pay the 5% fee to yourself. These things can't cost more than 5-10k and get around places like Coinbase banning you, making yourself anti-fragile. Maybe have one close to your parents' house so they can maintain it and another one in Europe where you reside long term for cash flow.

I've thought about using localbitcoins.com to cash out my ethereum and BTC through Western Union but haven't pushed the trigger on this yet. Has anyone else done this?
01-11-2019 07:32 AM
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redbeard Offline
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Post: #7402
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(01-11-2019 07:32 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  If possible, buy a BTC ATM and pay the 5% fee to yourself. These things can't cost more than 5-10k and get around places like Coinbase banning you, making yourself anti-fragile. Maybe have one close to your parents' house so they can maintain it and another one in Europe where you reside long term for cash flow.

I've looked into this. The ATMs range from $3k-$10k based on features. After that, the only expense you pay is possibly the location (corner store, gas station, etc.). You do have to properly manage the funds however, and obtain BTC to sell which could be a headache.

The biggest problem is it's difficult to estimate revenue. Without placing an ATM, you don't know how many transactions you'll receive, or how large they'll be.

If anyone's done this successfully, please share.

Quote:I've thought about using localbitcoins.com to cash out my ethereum and BTC through Western Union but haven't pushed the trigger on this yet. Has anyone else done this?

Is there any specific reason you're avoiding the exchanges? If it's anonymity, Western Union won't help there (I assume).

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01-11-2019 07:48 AM
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Post: #7403
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(01-11-2019 07:48 AM)redbeard Wrote:  I've looked into this. The ATMs range from $3k-$10k based on features. After that, the only expense you pay is possibly the location (corner store, gas station, etc.). You do have to properly manage the funds however, and obtain BTC to sell which could be a headache.

The biggest problem is it's difficult to estimate revenue. Without placing an ATM, you don't know how many transactions you'll receive, or how large they'll be.

If anyone's done this successfully, please share.

Oh yeah I totally forgot about payments for location. I heard the malls are most expensive but most secure while dive bars are less expensive but less secure. Usually a share in the profits, which machine brings. Might be 50/50 or other ratios individual operators suggest. Average monthly rent space for ATM is $300-700/month, probably lower in eastern Europe. I'm sure you can negotiate something out.

Revenue: a survey estimated that its operators earn between $1,000–$3,000 each month on an average commission of 5.5%. This equates to annual earnings for ATM operators of between $12,000 and $36,000 per unit.

The good thing is, there are many Bitcoin ATM companies so even if one refuses to sell to Roosh there will be 10 more that might be willing.

Here's a blog about BTC ATMs: https://coinatmradar.com/blog/category/b...tcoin-atm/

[Image: coinsource.png]

Quote:Is there any specific reason you're avoiding the exchanges? If it's anonymity, Western Union won't help there (I assume).

Nice try, Mr. FBI. I plead the FIF.

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01-11-2019 08:20 AM
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Genghis Khan Offline
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Post: #7404
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Just saw this on Twitter. Oh oh, is Bitcoin's Lightning Network in trouble?


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01-12-2019 06:59 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #7405
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Below is a link to a decent article from several days ago arguing that the bitcoin pric bottom is "in."

https://medium.com/@renato_shira/bitcoin...ff1e2b9403

Personally, I believe that it is too soon to assert that the bitcoin bottom is "in" until prices get above $6k-ish and stay there, but still nice to see some bullish price assertions.
01-13-2019 03:02 PM
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Post: #7406
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Even if some variation of this bitcoin "deciding to buy?" flowchart has been posted earlier in this thread, it is worth repeating.

https://www.blockchaincenter.net/should-...y/?lang=en

[Image: should-i-buy-bitcoin-709x1024.png]
01-15-2019 03:26 PM
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Post: #7407
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
If you live in Europe and want to cash out I'd probably use the new binance fiat exchange instead of Coinbase that rats you out automatically to the IRS or ban you like Roosh. If interested kindly sign up using my referral link:

https://www.binance.je/?ref=35012183
01-16-2019 09:48 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #7408
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Jimmy Song writes well, and he has a new article about "what is bitcoin" that is part 1 (of how many? I don't know).

https://twitter.com/jimmysong/status/108...0930541574
01-16-2019 12:34 PM
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Post: #7409
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
If you need to cash out in Europe, use Localbitcoins and look for CASH transactions. Some have direct contact in the ad. Find one and arrange a meeting in a public and safe place (shopping mall?).
01-16-2019 03:30 PM
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ChicagoFire Offline
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Post: #7410
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Keep it coming guys, just read the past couple of pages. Thanks for the information. Especially agree this isn't something you want to trade, keep it for at least 10 years. Maybe it will explode and everybody who had money in here will look like geniuses or maybe not.

Bought a small amount of crypto since part of my MO is reinvesting my money and not playing defense like being a debt slave (do you really need to buy the new apple phone especially when the company hates men like us).

(09-21-2018 09:31 AM)kosko Wrote:  For the folks who stay ignorant and hating and not improving their situation during these Trump years, it will be bleak and cold once the good times stop.
01-17-2019 08:14 AM
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Ceasar Offline
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Post: #7411
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(12-19-2018 04:08 AM)Pinocchio Wrote:  
(12-15-2018 10:58 AM)PhDstudent Wrote:  Hi guys, I am going to buy some coins when the market cap of crypto is around 90billion. I think we are approaching the bottom and am thinking about buying some Ethereum, Monero, Dash, Ripples, and Bitcoin. Investing around 1000$ in each, what are the strengths and weaknesses of each ? Any other crypto worth investing in? Thanks!

I would prob do this if I didn't want to manage and just long term hold, re-balance every quarter or something.

BTC 60%
XRP 10%
ETH 10%
EOS 10%
XLM 5%
BNB 5%

How has this portfolio done the past 12 months?
01-19-2019 01:18 PM
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Ceasar Offline
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Post: #7412
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
So, Coinbase charges pretty large fees (something like 1.5% to just buy). I just want to fund my gambling account, and coinbase also requires me to wait 9 days to transfer my money out. What is the cheapest way to buy bitcoin?
01-19-2019 01:25 PM
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Post: #7413
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(01-19-2019 01:18 PM)Ceasar Wrote:  
(12-19-2018 04:08 AM)Pinocchio Wrote:  
(12-15-2018 10:58 AM)PhDstudent Wrote:  Hi guys, I am going to buy some coins when the market cap of crypto is around 90billion. I think we are approaching the bottom and am thinking about buying some Ethereum, Monero, Dash, Ripples, and Bitcoin. Investing around 1000$ in each, what are the strengths and weaknesses of each ? Any other crypto worth investing in? Thanks!

I would prob do this if I didn't want to manage and just long term hold, re-balance every quarter or something.

BTC 60%
XRP 10%
ETH 10%
EOS 10%
XLM 5%
BNB 5%

How has this portfolio done the past 12 months?

No BTC nor crypto portfolio has done well in the past 12 months. The past 12 months is neither a representative period nor is 12 months a realistic timeline when considering the advantages and disadvantages of "long term" investing. Of course, the actual timeline for "long term" investing will vary from person to person and depending on situation, but generally I would consider long term investing on a 5, 10 or 20 year timeline. Of course, adjustment, tweaking, rebalancing or reconsideration along the way can be done too, including considerations about whether to completely get out of the "long term" investment or to "double down" or more.

I personally don't advocate "long term" investing in any crypto besides BTC, and with BTC I do advocate formulating a dollar cost averaging and buying on dips combination (also selling small amounts on the way up to use those funds for buying back and perhaps cashing out depending on more extreme performance or longer term considerations), so any allocation that I might make towards other cryptos would either be with BTC profits or perhaps just less than 5% of my total portfolio value towards any such shitcoin investing.

If you are on a shorter term plan and planning to play with trading, that is a bit of another story. Also, you mentioned that you merely want to get into "crypto" for gambling, then it sounds like you have no real long term plan to invest, at the moment.

If you are merely concerned about saving fee, then transferring money into the Coinbase Pro exchange can be free depending on amounts, and there are no fees to trade there if you are presetting your trades that would involve "maker fees" (0%), rather than "taker fees" (which vary). See this link: https://pro.coinbase.com/profile/fees
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2019 02:11 PM by JayJuanGee.)
01-19-2019 01:52 PM
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Post: #7414
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
I don't even think about the fees if I feel the price is right. If you buy Bitcoin for $2k and it goes to $20k and beyond you won't care about about fees unless they were a ridiculous 4-6%. I use a local fiat exchange and the fee is 0.5-1%. the price you get in is more important than fees and bitcoin is not quite on its knees just yet.
01-19-2019 08:45 PM
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Ceasar Offline
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Post: #7415
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(01-19-2019 08:45 PM)[email protected] Wrote:  I don't even think about the fees if I feel the price is right. If you buy Bitcoin for $2k and it goes to $20k and beyond you won't care about about fees unless they were a ridiculous 4-6%. I use a local fiat exchange and the fee is 0.5-1%. the price you get in is more important than fees and bitcoin is not quite on its knees just yet.

I'm using bitcoin to transfer money... thus, I do care about fees.
01-20-2019 01:57 AM
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Post: #7416
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(01-19-2019 01:52 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(01-19-2019 01:18 PM)Ceasar Wrote:  
(12-19-2018 04:08 AM)Pinocchio Wrote:  
(12-15-2018 10:58 AM)PhDstudent Wrote:  Hi guys, I am going to buy some coins when the market cap of crypto is around 90billion. I think we are approaching the bottom and am thinking about buying some Ethereum, Monero, Dash, Ripples, and Bitcoin. Investing around 1000$ in each, what are the strengths and weaknesses of each ? Any other crypto worth investing in? Thanks!

I would prob do this if I didn't want to manage and just long term hold, re-balance every quarter or something.

BTC 60%
XRP 10%
ETH 10%
EOS 10%
XLM 5%
BNB 5%

How has this portfolio done the past 12 months?

No BTC nor crypto portfolio has done well in the past 12 months. The past 12 months is neither a representative period nor is 12 months a realistic timeline when considering the advantages and disadvantages of "long term" investing. Of course, the actual timeline for "long term" investing will vary from person to person and depending on situation, but generally I would consider long term investing on a 5, 10 or 20 year timeline. Of course, adjustment, tweaking, rebalancing or reconsideration along the way can be done too, including considerations about whether to completely get out of the "long term" investment or to "double down" or more.

I personally don't advocate "long term" investing in any crypto besides BTC, and with BTC I do advocate formulating a dollar cost averaging and buying on dips combination (also selling small amounts on the way up to use those funds for buying back and perhaps cashing out depending on more extreme performance or longer term considerations), so any allocation that I might make towards other cryptos would either be with BTC profits or perhaps just less than 5% of my total portfolio value towards any such shitcoin investing.

If you are on a shorter term plan and planning to play with trading, that is a bit of another story. Also, you mentioned that you merely want to get into "crypto" for gambling, then it sounds like you have no real long term plan to invest, at the moment.

If you are merely concerned about saving fee, then transferring money into the Coinbase Pro exchange can be free depending on amounts, and there are no fees to trade there if you are presetting your trades that would involve "maker fees" (0%), rather than "taker fees" (which vary). See this link: https://pro.coinbase.com/profile/fees

JayJuanGee -- since you're obviously an expert trader, can you tell us how much money you've made in Crypto since the beginning of 2018? What do your returns look like?

Also, what happened to the Crypto Section on the RVF Forum? I thought it was the future?
01-20-2019 02:00 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #7417
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(01-20-2019 02:00 AM)Ceasar Wrote:  
(01-19-2019 01:52 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  [edited out]

JayJuanGee -- since you're obviously an expert trader,

You seem to be misreading me (on purpose) if you believe either that I am an expert trader or strive to be a trader (or to make money by trading).

In essence, I thought that I already asserted that I am a long term investor in bitcoin. Further, I have created a variety of BTC specific strategies regarding my long term thinking about BTC.


(01-20-2019 02:00 AM)Ceasar Wrote:  can you tell us how much money you've made in Crypto since the beginning of 2018?

I don't know why it matters, and your specific framing of the issue in terms of "profits" since beginning of 2018 shows that you are far from genuine in your attempt to share information here... By the way, how much information are you sharing about yourself? You seem to be implying with your current assertion that you hav some kind of trading and gambling strategy, and you want to compare your trading profits dick size to mine? Perhaps?

By the way, I am not attempting to compete with you nor any other guy, here in regards to the profitability of my BTC trading strategy or about how well I have tailored my BTC approach to my personal financial circumstances, even though I have more than 5 years of posts in this thread that show I have plenty of sharing going on in regards to my ongoing BTC thinking.

For any guy here wondering how he makes money in a bear market, such as the status of BTC from early 2018 to present, he either needs to have had shorted the asset (which means employing margin) or to have sold his holdings at one point or another at a higher price (which is possible in retrospect for those who play that way), so measuring from the top of the BTC price in the past about year to present is not likely to show profits, especially for guys like me who neither short (and do not play with margin) and have continued to have an overall BTC holding and accumulation strategy.


(01-20-2019 02:00 AM)Ceasar Wrote:  What do your returns look like?

Pretty decent profits, overall, if we measure since when I got involved in late 2013, and for the purposes and goals that I had ascribed for myself concerning why I got into BTC in the first place, in part, in order to hedge against my dollar investments.

Of course, by the quantity and frequency of my posts in this thread, you would likely fairly presume that my interests in BTC have grown over the years, and my perspective has evolved somewhat too, even though my perspective has largely been bullish throughout the period.

(01-20-2019 02:00 AM)Ceasar Wrote:  Also, what happened to the Crypto Section on the RVF Forum?

That would likely be a question for Roosh or maybe someone who knows about that forum evolution. As you may know from my post history, I have not been too motivated by the concept of "crypto" because I consider the vast majority of non-bitcoin cryptos to either be snake oil imitations or attacks on bitcoin - yet I understand that they can also serve purposes to make short term money for guys (and traders too).

(01-20-2019 02:00 AM)Ceasar Wrote:  I thought it was the future?

Could be? I don't know. Of course, there has been up and down hype in regards to "crypto", especially when a lot of money can be made, which has happened to quite a few people in crypto - apart from just investing in BTC. Again, I did not really get distracted into other crypto, and they are not likely to be dead any time soon. I expect that there are really good chances for a variety of shitcoins to pump again, whether that pump correlates exactly with likely upcoming BTC price rises in the future or not is difficult to know with any degree of certainty. On a personal level, I am likely to remain focused on BTC because I believe that BTC remains the only crypto that has a viable long term sound money aspect which contributes to its long term strength, viability and largely the reason that I got into it in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, there is a certain wider market dynamics with cryptos overall that could likely bring a lot of money to bitcoin, and will likely flow into bitcoin in the long run, even though it could take 50 years or more to sort out. Of course, I don't have a 50 year timeline, and likely I will be cashing out much sooner than that, even possibly within 10 years or so.. depending on my own personal circumstances - including my health.
01-20-2019 03:45 AM
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Post: #7418
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
You can make BTC in a bear market but it involves trading altcoins or accruing lending fees on exchanges. Some have even bragged about using 100 GPUs to mine shitcoins like RVN and dumping on people. For me, if BTC goes to range of 5200 to 6000 I plan to sell and buy back in below 3k to double my BTC. If you don't want to risk if you can dollar cost average weekly or bi-weekly a portion of your wages. This will probably work because BTC is closer to the bottom.
01-20-2019 11:21 AM
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Post: #7419
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
The truth of the below tweeted matter, is is a trip, if you think about it. Whoaza.



https://twitter.com/dergigi/status/1086845488752742402

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMFq6JAf.p...Ofw4eJJDLg]
01-20-2019 01:16 PM
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Post: #7420
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(01-20-2019 02:00 AM)Ceasar Wrote:  JayJuanGee -- since you're obviously an expert trader, can you tell us how much money you've made in Crypto since the beginning of 2018? What do your returns look like?

Also, what happened to the Crypto Section on the RVF Forum? I thought it was the future?

Smart money's stayed out of crypto since 2018. It's still developing into a mature asset class, give it more time.

Dunno what the point of this post is.

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01-20-2019 01:39 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #7421
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(01-20-2019 01:39 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  
(01-20-2019 02:00 AM)Ceasar Wrote:  JayJuanGee -- since you're obviously an expert trader, can you tell us how much money you've made in Crypto since the beginning of 2018? What do your returns look like?

Also, what happened to the Crypto Section on the RVF Forum? I thought it was the future?

Smart money's stayed out of crypto since 2018. It's still developing into a mature asset class, give it more time.

Dunno what the point of this post is.

Whatever your definition of "smart money," there has been plenty of smart money establishing a BTC position at various points in 2018, including buying BTC at prices quite higher than today's price.

If you attempt to conflate bitcoin and crypto, then you are viewing the whole matter from a different perspective too, since bitcoin remains the only crypto that maintains strong evidence of its sound money aspect(s).. and not just farting around with smoke, mirrors, technical distraction, bitcoin imitation and bitcoin naysaying which is the case with almost every one of the alts.

Remember that in mid-2014, Tim Draper looked like a fool for a considerably long time when he bought large stacks of Fed auctioned BTC (silk road coins) in the $600 price territories, and he was underwater on those coins for a couple of years... largely until late 2016.

I am not necessarily suggesting that Tim Draper is smart money, but my point is that there are a lot of players in the bitcoin space and a lot of new entrants into BTC that might be smart in a variety of traditional financial circles while they are still learning about bitcoin. Of course, institutional and sophisticated financial players (which seems to fit into a "smart money" category) are going to have a variety of contingency plans in terms of how they get into bitcoin, and many of them are not necessarily waiting, as you suggest - even if you might retrospectively NOT call them "smart money" if the BTC price goes down from here, which it may.... also, if they are playing around with alts on a long term basis, then likely it would be smart to be getting out of those on a regular basis (even when there are likely scenarios that they could play around with some of them for short term profits).
01-20-2019 02:20 PM
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Post: #7422
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Below is a bullish article from yesterday outlining underlying facts that can cause bitcoins to become worth $10million.... Could take a while, but there you have it:

https://medium.com/@lucidfunds/the-long-...1c83d26e5d
01-21-2019 03:57 PM
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Post: #7423
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Another projected price with no timeline...

I'll say this much, that having 21 BTC is a much more reliable fund to retire on than any government pension fund in existence.
01-21-2019 04:36 PM
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Post: #7424
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(01-21-2019 04:36 PM)[email protected] Wrote:  Another projected price with no timeline...

I'll say this much, that having 21 BTC is a much more reliable fund to retire on than any government pension fund in existence.

In your hypothetical, when you going to start withdrawing from such 21 BTC retirement stash? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? or some other projected date?

I would say a minimum of 5 years to have some confidence, and maybe just withdrawing at 4% per year, which is the standard withdrawal formula that theoretically allows withdrawing income while largely maintaining principle.
01-21-2019 07:11 PM
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Post: #7425
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(01-21-2019 07:11 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(01-21-2019 04:36 PM)[email protected] Wrote:  Another projected price with no timeline...

I'll say this much, that having 21 BTC is a much more reliable fund to retire on than any government pension fund in existence.

In your hypothetical, when you going to start withdrawing from such 21 BTC retirement stash? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? or some other projected date?

I would say a minimum of 5 years to have some confidence, and maybe just withdrawing at 4% per year, which is the standard withdrawal formula that theoretically allows withdrawing income while largely maintaining principle.

The 4% rule is for people with a portfolio of dividend stocks. It sounds good but if BTC is still volatile in future the 4% rule doesn't work. You have to cashout when your 21 BTC gets you retirement money (let's say 2m, therefore 100k USD per coin) and convert that to an income producing asset. We all saw that even a 20k bitcoin can go down 84% and I expect this pattern to continue for the next 1-2 cycles at least.

Theoretically, you can lend BTC at an exchange and collect over 4% annually and retire right now. The only issue is that any of these exchanges (poloniex, bitfinix, bitmex, etc) can get hacked or exit scam and you can lose your entire stack. Right now a stack of 300 BTC can get enough in lending fees to comfortably retire. 300BTC*0.04*3500USD is roughly 40k USD yearly, enough to retire in the Midwest or overseas.

A more efficient way might be to sell half your stack (10.5) when BTC hits roughly 20k again. Then sell half (5.25) when it doubles again to 40k. Then again sell half (2.625) 80k and so on. Taking profits like this protects you against the -80% swings of Bitcoin. Even if Bitcoin dumps down from 100 to 20k you have fiat waiting to buy back in. Then just do this every 4 years.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2019 08:44 PM by [email protected].)
01-21-2019 08:34 PM
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