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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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pants Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
will gold stay valuable for ever? why is it so valuable? status of wealth from ancient times? cause its an excellent conductor and reflector?

will we ever be able to create gold or mine it from other planets in space?

iknowexactly. what you mean by bitcoin being processed through us banks?
03-23-2013 09:10 AM
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iknowexactly Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(03-23-2013 09:10 AM)pants Wrote:  1) (a)will gold stay valuable for ever? (b)why is it so valuable? {c } status of wealth from ancient times? (d) cause its an excellent conductor and reflector?

2) will we ever be able to create gold or mine it from other planets in space?

3) iknowexactly. what you mean by bitcoin being processed through us banks?

All these arguments below are time limited to the next 100 years, presumably after which you and I will not exist. But any gold we buy and sell almost certainly will.

1) (a) Yes. Well, at least until you and I are long dead. It has never lost all value for the last 4000 years, except during very short periods in narrowly defined areas where its possession was prohibited. So, gold's proven value durability: 4000 years. Bitcoin's: 4 months.

(b) Beauty (Bitcoin? for hackers only) , universal acceptance continuously for millennia across all cultures (Bitcoin? no), non-perishability (Bitcoin? unknown), can't be created cheaply insuring impossible-to-evade limits on supply (Bitcoin? no: founders can declare necessity of "printing" more, competitors can easily duplicate model), non-perishability(Bitcoin? no), very difficult to counterfeit (Bitcoin? I think so, not an expert). Also, chicks like it (Bitcoin? I'm sure there's two or three chicks who know what it is, but that will get better.).

{c} Yes, part of gold's value is that throughout history it has never lost all it's value. Since ancient times, and every time since then. Because of the long duration, it has a place in the human psyche beyond any single culture or ideology's ability to overcome.

(d) My understanding is that gold's functional properties do not account for its current value, although it has some industrial value other materials do similar things cheaper.

2) Create Gold: People have tried it for thousands of years and failed, I'm not a chemist but since it's a basic element my guess is it can't be created in a cost-effective manner. Mine it from space: Are you serious about this?-- given the cost of sending rockets up it seems astronomically ( pun intended) unlikely. If teleportation, or cheap space travel is invented, the smelting and extraction would still be quite expensive, and I have never heard of a reputable physicist who believes teleportation is remotely likely.

3) Turn it into something (cash, land) that can purchase stuff without going through a process similar to money-laundering. Like a down payment on a house. You can have all the computer files you want ( bitcoin, even more than other fiat currencies is a computer file, even American dollars are more physically real than bitcoin) but eventualy you want to eat something, buy a house, etc.

I'm not arguing people can not make money from Bitcoin speculation. I'm sure some will. As with most bubbles involving abstract assets, most will lose money.
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2013 09:44 AM by iknowexactly.)
03-23-2013 09:33 AM
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pants Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Okay, i admit i was in a philosophical mood writing my previous post. What i wanted to say with it, a currency value lies within the trust of the people using it. Wanted to make some parallels to a physical asset as gold is. We are all brought up with how valuable gold is, but most of us have no idea why.


Create more gold, yes i was serious, but bear(?) in mind it was from more of a philosophical nature, than a practical that would affect me in my lifetime. And you probably do not want to ask a chemist as they mostly handle how electrons interact with each other, not protons what you want is more of a Sheldon Cooper nuclear physicist type i assume. Maybe they can make some in zern, i rally dont know.


3
Im not entirely sure what you mean by physical, or the value of physical in it self, or what this got to do with money laundering?

Turn it into something like cash? I cant find you a link. But i heard there was a company wanting to create a physical cash based on the bitcoin. Maybe in a few years you can.

Buy something physical? Well if you want drugs, the silkroad is there for you. Else if you want a house, you should contact this guy http://mashable.com/2013/03/22/house-bitcoins/
If you want food, order a Dominos Pizza, they accept bitcoins.


I totally agree with you that bitcoins are a high risk investment. It could be a fun gamble, but dont bet your life savings.
03-23-2013 01:22 PM
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Fenix Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(03-23-2013 08:56 AM)pants Wrote:  limited because the created made it that way. why? I don't know. maybe of social economic beliefs.

I am unsure if that's the best way though. what happens with all the computer power to back it up when there is no more money in mining? rely on transactions fees alone. is it enough?

maybe a built in inflation of a few percent would be better.

I referred to the dip of 52 usd today.

Maybe some players are cashing out and taking some money off the table.

Btw, I checked out bitinstant.com but they don't have a way to pay via debit/gift card.

   
03-23-2013 03:31 PM
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Fenix Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(03-23-2013 07:03 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  
(03-22-2013 04:34 PM)dulst Wrote:  
(03-22-2013 03:09 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  gold is different, possession is decentralized and untraceable with modern tech.

Bitcoin is totally decentralised. ....... the people who run blockchain - which is the service all bitcoing transactions go through

so "all transactions go through the people who run blockchain" but it's decentralized? And untraceable? EVERYTHING in the internet is traceable if Skynet troubles itself to do it. Do you even know how name servers work, what an IP number is, what logs are? How hard do you think it is for the Secret Service to set up anonymous proxy services? To strong arm existing anonymizers?

You are confusing Skynet not caring with Skynet being powerless.

And those people can't be gotten to? I am willing to bet as the pyramid scheme they created is escalating up will be getting a lot of their assets out and into hard currency, gold or whatever.

I admit I don't like doomsayers-- because they never give a date when they'll be wrong.
So I admit I'll be wrong. When the US Government recognizes and allows bitcoin to be processed
through US Banks.

If it crashes-- well it was the gubmint's fault.

Why Because the big bad Gubmint has this in the Constitution:

The Congress shall have Power......
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

From their website, emphasis mine:
The price of a bitcoin can unpredictably increase or decrease over a short period of time due to its young economy, novel nature, and sometimes illiquid markets. Consequently, keeping your savings in bitcoin is not recommended. Bitcoin should be considered as a high risk asset, and you should never store money that you cannot afford to lose with Bitcoin.

So you see people's devotion to a totally abstract form of value--essentially exactly the same as a fiat currency-- as a positive thing?

You've heard of tulip bulbs, right? At least that was a tangible thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Not sure exactly, maybe someone could correct me, but I think piracy could be stopped too if Skynet wanted to-- the whole internet depends on the main nameservers.

Skynet is not powerless over you, they just have better things to do. You are not important. Yet.

Here's how China keeps things under control:

http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=232

hey ike, are you familiar with TOR? Their site says that each hop is encrypted resulting in an encrypted layer of the 'onion' proxy. What's your thoughts on how secure it is in regards to 'Skynet' snooping? The Tor faqs also state that it has a min of 3 hops and uses OpenSSL for encryption.
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2013 03:46 PM by Fenix.)
03-23-2013 03:42 PM
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guerrilla Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
WHY are bitcoins appreciating so much!!???

Where are the cash inflows coming from???!!!! WHERE??!!!

There's no transparency on this shit, that's why it's not a permanent solution for money.

The recent run up was probably from some idiot hedgefunders who are about to cash out for all we know. We need transparency.
03-23-2013 05:09 PM
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Parlay44 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
What is a bitcoin and what can I do with it?

http://lifehacker.com/5991523/what-is-bi...do-with-it

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03-26-2013 12:24 PM
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pants Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
93USD now!

Three digits soon
03-28-2013 12:42 AM
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guerrilla Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
this sudden rise is actuallly really pissing me off because it defies all rationality in too quick a timespan. this is worst than the tulip craze. where is the transparency?

where are the inflows coming from?? Cyprus?? yeah right, like the smart money is moving out of unstable Cyprus into Bitcoins which is has been the historical epitome of stability, right? (joking, obviously).

more bitcoin miners? then that would increase supply, which would decrease value.

without any even HINT of where the inflows are coming from and for what reason (speculation, buying silk road goods, buying homes, what?) I'm too afraid to ride the momentum curve because it will crash unexpectedly

but I might.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2013 01:00 AM by guerrilla.)
03-28-2013 12:59 AM
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iknowexactly Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(03-23-2013 03:42 PM)Fenix Wrote:  hey ike, are you familiar with TOR? Their site says that each hop is encrypted resulting in an encrypted layer of the 'onion' proxy. What's your thoughts on how secure it is in regards to 'Skynet' snooping? The Tor faqs also state that it has a min of 3 hops and uses OpenSSL for encryption.

I'm not pretending to be a network security expert. I'm using "skynet" as a euphemism for the government's virtually unlimited ability to track anything trackable, but I lack the expertise to understand what is physically impossible to track.

I do however understand a bit about how government agencies work, and if the people who control this exchange are known and are physically accessible to special agents of FBI , NSA, no-such-agency, who knows? operatives, they can be paid a visit and unless they are some kind of unbelievable hard-cases they will do exactly as they are told after they are done shitting bricks.

And they will keep their mouths shut about it for the most part too.
When it comes to doing anything that might result in the US currency being downgraded, you might as well be trying to break in to a nuclear weapons base.

An example of this is how hard they come down on those cats ( Wesley Snipes) who start to claim that there is no legal basis for the income tax.

Start spouting that shit and get yourself a lot of attention.

I'm not saying it'll happen soon, but if they try to scale it and it becomes ANY kind of conceivable threat to the primacy of the dollar, things will happen you will never hear about.

Just my guess. Maybe they'll let Bitcoin and competitors co-exist with the dolalr and gradually grow until it equals 10 or 20 per cent of the value of all dollars. Maybe they'll get inside of it and monitor all the shit you do.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2013 01:13 AM by iknowexactly.)
03-28-2013 01:11 AM
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iknowexactly Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(03-28-2013 12:59 AM)guerrilla Wrote:  I'm too afraid to ride the momentum curve because it will crash unexpectedly

but I might.

You could just put gambling money in, and pull it out step by step as it goes up. Pull 1/4 when it goes up 50%, another 1/4 when it doubles....

Be prepared for it to crash the day after you buy.

Until you see articles in the NY Times or Fox news it might not be ready to crash.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2013 01:16 AM by iknowexactly.)
03-28-2013 01:15 AM
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BurnFirst Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
So if I bought ten grand worth of these when I first read this thread I could have doubled my money? How easy is it to covert back into USD? Would I have to pay taxes on this income?
03-28-2013 01:26 AM
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pants Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(03-28-2013 01:26 AM)BurnFirst Wrote:  So if I bought ten grand worth of these when I first read this thread I could have doubled my money? How easy is it to covert back into USD? Would I have to pay taxes on this income?


yep, pretty much would have doubled. But it was and still is a risky investment.

So far bitcoins are taxfree in norway, dont know what the situation in the us is. maybe its the same as for forex trade. I really dont know.

On a big market like mtgox.com it should be pretty easy to buy and sell bitcoins.
03-28-2013 08:01 AM
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LucienM Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Quote:So if I bought ten grand worth of these when I first read this thread

If you bought 10 grand worth in December, you'd now have 80 grand worth.

(may have to pay capital gains tax)

For the love of God, buy some. As much as you can afford to, and so forth - usual investment rules (even just 0.5 or 1). Not hard to figure out. They're up 800% or so since December. Exponential media hits have followed the initial December/January surge, which have continued and have equaled a reflective exponential number of people first hearing about btc, getting interested, and buying a few. All over the world. China is now 3rd greatest investment area in btc behind US and Europe. Word about btc is spreading like wildfire in Asia. The more people who have them, the more each is worth and the higher the floor in case of a crash. Comparing now to the 2011 crash completely ignores the astronomically larger number of people who today know about btc (whether invested or not). Do your own research (I'd start w/ bitcointalk.org), but pay attention if you're hearing about them for the first time. Ask yourself who else is hearing about them, and if your interest is picqued initially, well how about theirs? Its the currency of the internet. How important is the internet today? In 10-20 years? Value today about to break $100/btc.

Heads up
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2013 10:30 AM by LucienM.)
03-28-2013 10:29 AM
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MikeinMKE Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Article on drudges top banner today!
03-28-2013 11:55 AM
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ElJefe Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
This is ridiculous.

I remember laughing at the idea when it was down at USD12.

I am going to throw some money at this. I fully expect to get burned for my greed.

A year from now you'll wish you started today
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2013 04:09 PM by ElJefe.)
04-01-2013 04:09 PM
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chyamor Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
a new form of Russian roulette
04-01-2013 04:17 PM
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Hencredible Casanova Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Yeah. Triple digits is cray. Has to be pure speculation though. This would be the time to dump the coins if you've had them for a while.
04-01-2013 04:27 PM
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uni Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
thousands of people from CYPRUS and RUSSIA are buying bitcoins like crazy
04-01-2013 04:29 PM
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DLZ Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Lul, I have about a few thousand BTC hoarded away from back in early 2012 when bitcoin was like 2.6 USD. Time to cash in, boys.

Sometimes it pays to be an early adopter. I can only imagine that dudes like Dread Pirate Roberts (of Silk Road fame) are laughing all the way to the bank.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2013 04:59 PM by DLZ.)
04-01-2013 04:45 PM
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BurnFirst Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
The approval queue for verification at MT.GOX is over 8000 right now....
04-01-2013 06:12 PM
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ElJefe Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(04-01-2013 04:45 PM)DLZ Wrote:  Lul, I have about a few thousand BTC hoarded away from back in early 2012 when bitcoin was like 2.6 USD. Time to cash in, boys.

Sometimes it pays to be an early adopter. I can only imagine that dudes like Dread Pirate Roberts (of Silk Road fame) are laughing all the way to the bank.

So you made a few hundred thousand in less than a year. Nice!

A year from now you'll wish you started today
04-02-2013 11:16 AM
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guerrilla Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(04-01-2013 06:12 PM)BurnFirst Wrote:  The approval queue for verification at MT.GOX is over 8000 right now....

What does this mean?
04-02-2013 11:24 AM
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LucienM Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
The best bear argument I've noticed, posted end of March on speculation board. 14 pages follow.

BTC/USD: Ready for "The Running of the Bears"?
04-02-2013 01:37 PM
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ElJefe Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
That OP was saying sell at USD75.

It's over USD100 now.

A year from now you'll wish you started today
04-02-2013 02:27 PM
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