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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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Dr. Howard Away
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Post: #8126
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-22-2019 03:28 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 01:09 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 12:42 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 01:12 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  [quote='Dr. Howard' pid='1993860' dateline='1561164176']
So, with facebook's "Libra" combined with the IRS putting cryptocurrency on the horizon for their next project I smell tax regulation coming soon. If you scoff and say "impossible", consider also, tax regulation, like forcing the use of banking style regulations is a way for the large corporate backers of Libra to kill their competition without having to buy them out.

...


....
That is the "so what"

If Libra actually launches, the US will implement tax regulations and audit programs that target individuals who hold anything but Libra.

History repeats itself, I've worked through 3 waves of these events so far in my career and the government will get its pound of flesh, either directly or indirectly. My advice to bitcoin holders is to reserve some of your war chest for defense when Crytpo's time in the tax and regulatory spotlight comes, because it is coming.

I still think that the point that you are attempting to make is a BIG so what.

...

...

maybe you should mention your own plans here, since you are seeming to want to edumacate us about the current dynamics of bitcoin... including but seemingly not limited to how government regs are going to play out and facebook coins role in such. Laugh

Unfortunately this is where the discussion becomes difficult as I would love to divulge the specifics of my day job, clients, etc. but going into that in order to attempt to win an internet argument isn't a good idea.

Is there some reason that we should either be arguing or attempting to win such arguments? Can't we merely be considering this as a place to be able to attempt to share information regarding the thread topic?

Sure, if you are overall bearish, then odds would be that you would not invest in bitcoin at all, yet whether that is based on mistaken ideas or just the fact that you have a variety of other investments that you consider to be sufficiently successful to your needs would be something for you to consider.

Frequently, there is no need to get into too many actual details or specifics in order to provide some ideas about experiential bases that can help to support why you think the way that you do and perhaps whether some of your actual actions match up with your thoughts.

In spite of some of the more drastic changes in some of the forum rules recently, there still are probably a decent number of guys here that appreciate when other guys are giving suggestions or advice or whatever the fuck we call it based on experiences and things that we are doing ourselves rather than something that is hypothetical and we are not at least attempting to practice what we preach.

(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  You are ultimately correct though I'm not an bitcoin investor nor do I hold any, so what would I know about government regulations relating to cryptocurrency?

Fair enough that you have not invested in bitcoin, yet I believe that part of a process that can make guys more informed in their input and their advice on any topic is to have some experiences in that topic. Of course, having such experience is not necessarily dispositive about whether it is proper for a guy to have opinions, but surely experience and interaction with a topic does seem to facilitate greater abilities to absorb some intricate knowledge and even to incentivize a more active form of attention (which would facilitate ability to learn "more better" (sic).

(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Your question, which I ultimately can't answer fully should have been

Aren't you behaving a bit patronizingly when you are trying to inform me regarding the questions that I should ask or perhaps how I should be framing my responses?

First of all there are a lot of ways to achieve our objectives in terms of covering a topic or sharing information about topics, and second, each of us have differing ways of thinking and presenting matter, which is quite discretionary... so long as I am not purposefully engaging in disingenuine or hostile behavior... which I am trying NOT to do. In other words, I am attempting to stay substantive in my interaction with you, but does not mean that I am going to think of every "most appropriate" question at any given time... Perhaps I haven't had my coffee yet.. or something else might be distracting me from thinking about "the proper question or way to ask a question."


(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  "Doc Howard, what makes you such an expert on government regulation of bitcoin to talk to us about government regulation of bitcoin?"

and my answer can only be, if you ever get audited, you just might find out!

First, I am glad that you were able to answer your own question. Second, I am not sure why you seem to be coming off as a kind of fear mongerer, here. Third, does anyone give any shits about purported "experts?" Again patronizing to suggest that you have some kind of knowledge is not being considered by various guys here. By the way, I do appreciate that you are wanting to provide information here, but your seeming need to either compete to win arguments or lecture is a bit annoying, wouldn't you think?

Anyhow, you do seem to have a decent amount of knowledge gaps in regards to bitcoin, so even if you have some regulatory or other specialized or "expert" insights, it would be nice to see you actually engaging with some of the interesting aspects of bitcoin rather than just spouting out some seemingly mainstream fear mongering bullshit that we can likely find in a lot of other areas... and without presuming that guys here have not already considered some of the regulatory and/or threats to bitcoin from other financial BIG players.

I apologize for the patronizing tone, I think its a discussion I should have thought about how far I could actually participate in the first place.

It would be like Deep diver arguing with someone and saying "thats not now things work on a Nuke Sub" and someone saying "well how do they work then?" and then his reply being "I can't tell you" Its not very helpful.

I shouldn't have even opened my mouth/keyboard.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2019 05:12 PM by Dr. Howard.)
06-22-2019 05:04 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #8127
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-22-2019 05:04 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 03:28 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 01:09 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 12:42 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  ...


....
That is the "so what"

If Libra actually launches, the US will implement tax regulations and audit programs that target individuals who hold anything but Libra.

History repeats itself, I've worked through 3 waves of these events so far in my career and the government will get its pound of flesh, either directly or indirectly. My advice to bitcoin holders is to reserve some of your war chest for defense when Crytpo's time in the tax and regulatory spotlight comes, because it is coming.

I still think that the point that you are attempting to make is a BIG so what.

...

...

maybe you should mention your own plans here, since you are seeming to want to edumacate us about the current dynamics of bitcoin... including but seemingly not limited to how government regs are going to play out and facebook coins role in such. Laugh

Unfortunately this is where the discussion becomes difficult as I would love to divulge the specifics of my day job, clients, etc. but going into that in order to attempt to win an internet argument isn't a good idea.

Is there some reason that we should either be arguing or attempting to win such arguments? Can't we merely be considering this as a place to be able to attempt to share information regarding the thread topic?

Sure, if you are overall bearish, then odds would be that you would not invest in bitcoin at all, yet whether that is based on mistaken ideas or just the fact that you have a variety of other investments that you consider to be sufficiently successful to your needs would be something for you to consider.

Frequently, there is no need to get into too many actual details or specifics in order to provide some ideas about experiential bases that can help to support why you think the way that you do and perhaps whether some of your actual actions match up with your thoughts.

In spite of some of the more drastic changes in some of the forum rules recently, there still are probably a decent number of guys here that appreciate when other guys are giving suggestions or advice or whatever the fuck we call it based on experiences and things that we are doing ourselves rather than something that is hypothetical and we are not at least attempting to practice what we preach.

(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  You are ultimately correct though I'm not an bitcoin investor nor do I hold any, so what would I know about government regulations relating to cryptocurrency?

Fair enough that you have not invested in bitcoin, yet I believe that part of a process that can make guys more informed in their input and their advice on any topic is to have some experiences in that topic. Of course, having such experience is not necessarily dispositive about whether it is proper for a guy to have opinions, but surely experience and interaction with a topic does seem to facilitate greater abilities to absorb some intricate knowledge and even to incentivize a more active form of attention (which would facilitate ability to learn "more better" (sic).

(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Your question, which I ultimately can't answer fully should have been

Aren't you behaving a bit patronizingly when you are trying to inform me regarding the questions that I should ask or perhaps how I should be framing my responses?

First of all there are a lot of ways to achieve our objectives in terms of covering a topic or sharing information about topics, and second, each of us have differing ways of thinking and presenting matter, which is quite discretionary... so long as I am not purposefully engaging in disingenuine or hostile behavior... which I am trying NOT to do. In other words, I am attempting to stay substantive in my interaction with you, but does not mean that I am going to think of every "most appropriate" question at any given time... Perhaps I haven't had my coffee yet.. or something else might be distracting me from thinking about "the proper question or way to ask a question."


(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  "Doc Howard, what makes you such an expert on government regulation of bitcoin to talk to us about government regulation of bitcoin?"

and my answer can only be, if you ever get audited, you just might find out!

First, I am glad that you were able to answer your own question. Second, I am not sure why you seem to be coming off as a kind of fear mongerer, here. Third, does anyone give any shits about purported "experts?" Again patronizing to suggest that you have some kind of knowledge is not being considered by various guys here. By the way, I do appreciate that you are wanting to provide information here, but your seeming need to either compete to win arguments or lecture is a bit annoying, wouldn't you think?

Anyhow, you do seem to have a decent amount of knowledge gaps in regards to bitcoin, so even if you have some regulatory or other specialized or "expert" insights, it would be nice to see you actually engaging with some of the interesting aspects of bitcoin rather than just spouting out some seemingly mainstream fear mongering bullshit that we can likely find in a lot of other areas... and without presuming that guys here have not already considered some of the regulatory and/or threats to bitcoin from other financial BIG players.

I apologize for the patronizing tone, I think its a discussion I should have thought about how far I could actually participate in the first place.

It would be like Deep diver arguing with someone and saying "thats not now things work on a Nuke Sub" and someone saying "well how do they work then?" and then his reply being "I can't tell you" Its not very helpful.

I shouldn't have even opened my mouth/keyboard.

Perhaps.

I would not want to scare you off, but there is a lot going on with bitcoin, and even people who spend a lot of time in the space have difficulties getting their heads around some of the negative propaganda and the campaigns.

I have had some privilege, in the past nearly 6 years to spend a considerable amount of time on the topic, but surely, I would not claim to know much more than the blind man at the trunk of an elephant attempting to figure out what the whole thing is, especially some of the coding aspects.

I still continuously suggest that guys look into the bitcoin matter, and based on the seeming lopsidded upside potential, that most people should be able to consider whether they could justify investing 1% of their total investment into bitcoin... and I doubt that kind of investment is really radical.. so it seems a bit presumptuous to me, if non-participants come into this thread and presume that guys have to be holding vast amounts of their investment in BTC in order to still have their bitcoin serve as a kind of dollar hedge (or a hedge of their other investments).

Now, if the investment appreciates in profits, like it has for many of us, then surely the investment has become a higher percent of the value of a guy's total portfolio holdings, yet that higher percentage might not necessarily justify that a guy sells his BTC so long as the rest of his investment portfolio and other aspects of his living and living expenses are in good order.
06-22-2019 05:52 PM
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Post: #8128
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-22-2019 05:52 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 05:04 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 03:28 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 01:09 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I still think that the point that you are attempting to make is a BIG so what.

...

...

maybe you should mention your own plans here, since you are seeming to want to edumacate us about the current dynamics of bitcoin... including but seemingly not limited to how government regs are going to play out and facebook coins role in such. Laugh

Unfortunately this is where the discussion becomes difficult as I would love to divulge the specifics of my day job, clients, etc. but going into that in order to attempt to win an internet argument isn't a good idea.

Is there some reason that we should either be arguing or attempting to win such arguments? Can't we merely be considering this as a place to be able to attempt to share information regarding the thread topic?

Sure, if you are overall bearish, then odds would be that you would not invest in bitcoin at all, yet whether that is based on mistaken ideas or just the fact that you have a variety of other investments that you consider to be sufficiently successful to your needs would be something for you to consider.

Frequently, there is no need to get into too many actual details or specifics in order to provide some ideas about experiential bases that can help to support why you think the way that you do and perhaps whether some of your actual actions match up with your thoughts.

In spite of some of the more drastic changes in some of the forum rules recently, there still are probably a decent number of guys here that appreciate when other guys are giving suggestions or advice or whatever the fuck we call it based on experiences and things that we are doing ourselves rather than something that is hypothetical and we are not at least attempting to practice what we preach.

(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  You are ultimately correct though I'm not an bitcoin investor nor do I hold any, so what would I know about government regulations relating to cryptocurrency?

Fair enough that you have not invested in bitcoin, yet I believe that part of a process that can make guys more informed in their input and their advice on any topic is to have some experiences in that topic. Of course, having such experience is not necessarily dispositive about whether it is proper for a guy to have opinions, but surely experience and interaction with a topic does seem to facilitate greater abilities to absorb some intricate knowledge and even to incentivize a more active form of attention (which would facilitate ability to learn "more better" (sic).

(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Your question, which I ultimately can't answer fully should have been

Aren't you behaving a bit patronizingly when you are trying to inform me regarding the questions that I should ask or perhaps how I should be framing my responses?

First of all there are a lot of ways to achieve our objectives in terms of covering a topic or sharing information about topics, and second, each of us have differing ways of thinking and presenting matter, which is quite discretionary... so long as I am not purposefully engaging in disingenuine or hostile behavior... which I am trying NOT to do. In other words, I am attempting to stay substantive in my interaction with you, but does not mean that I am going to think of every "most appropriate" question at any given time... Perhaps I haven't had my coffee yet.. or something else might be distracting me from thinking about "the proper question or way to ask a question."


(06-22-2019 03:00 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  "Doc Howard, what makes you such an expert on government regulation of bitcoin to talk to us about government regulation of bitcoin?"

and my answer can only be, if you ever get audited, you just might find out!

First, I am glad that you were able to answer your own question. Second, I am not sure why you seem to be coming off as a kind of fear mongerer, here. Third, does anyone give any shits about purported "experts?" Again patronizing to suggest that you have some kind of knowledge is not being considered by various guys here. By the way, I do appreciate that you are wanting to provide information here, but your seeming need to either compete to win arguments or lecture is a bit annoying, wouldn't you think?

Anyhow, you do seem to have a decent amount of knowledge gaps in regards to bitcoin, so even if you have some regulatory or other specialized or "expert" insights, it would be nice to see you actually engaging with some of the interesting aspects of bitcoin rather than just spouting out some seemingly mainstream fear mongering bullshit that we can likely find in a lot of other areas... and without presuming that guys here have not already considered some of the regulatory and/or threats to bitcoin from other financial BIG players.

I apologize for the patronizing tone, I think its a discussion I should have thought about how far I could actually participate in the first place.

It would be like Deep diver arguing with someone and saying "thats not now things work on a Nuke Sub" and someone saying "well how do they work then?" and then his reply being "I can't tell you" Its not very helpful.

I shouldn't have even opened my mouth/keyboard.

Perhaps.

I would not want to scare you off, but there is a lot going on with bitcoin, and even people who spend a lot of time in the space have difficulties getting their heads around some of the negative propaganda and the campaigns.

I have had some privilege, in the past nearly 6 years to spend a considerable amount of time on the topic, but surely, I would not claim to know much more than the blind man at the trunk of an elephant attempting to figure out what the whole thing is, especially some of the coding aspects.

I still continuously suggest that guys look into the bitcoin matter, and based on the seeming lopsidded upside potential, that most people should be able to consider whether they could justify investing 1% of their total investment into bitcoin... and I doubt that kind of investment is really radical.. so it seems a bit presumptuous to me, if non-participants come into this thread and presume that guys have to be holding vast amounts of their investment in BTC in order to still have their bitcoin serve as a kind of dollar hedge (or a hedge of their other investments).

Now, if the investment appreciates in profits, like it has for many of us, then surely the investment has become a higher percent of the value of a guy's total portfolio holdings, yet that higher percentage might not necessarily justify that a guy sells his BTC so long as the rest of his investment portfolio and other aspects of his living and living expenses are in good order.

The key thing in bitcoin, in my view, is that every billionaire in the world is busy buying every damn coin they can get their hands on.

If Billionaires are buying it, I'm buying it.

I just wish I could buy more. 11k is the bargain basement still.
06-22-2019 07:31 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-22-2019 07:31 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 05:52 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  [edited out]

The key thing in bitcoin, in my view, is that every billionaire in the world is busy buying every damn coin they can get their hands on.

If Billionaires are buying it, I'm buying it.

I just wish I could buy more. 11k is the bargain basement still.

Don't get away from yourself, MrLemon.

I would agree with any characterization that the number of billionnaires interested in bitcoin is going up, and there are likely an increasing number of them who are figuring out ways to get into bitcoin.

Because if what you said were true, the bitcoin price would be way the fuck higher, becuase what you seem to imply is that when billionnaires begin to invest into things, then that investment inclination becomes contagious, and there is not even evough bitcoins in existence that would even allow all of the millionnaires (again contagion in the USA) to acquire 1 bitcoin each, and if they were to try to accumulate a stash of bitcoins of even a small fraction of their wealthy, bitcoin's actual street price would more than 100x from here... which might even cause what's his face (John McAfee) from not having to eat his own dick by the end of 2020.

hahahahahaha.. a bit of a change of topic, but what dumbass, except for a coked up attention whore, would offer to eat his own dick based on markets (which he suggested was obviously based on math - another chart reader that should have been beating himself instead of opening his mouth.. hahahahahahaaha)?
06-22-2019 10:14 PM
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SergioRamos Offline
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Post: #8130
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
What was the lowest price for Bitcoin in 2019?
06-23-2019 07:40 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #8131
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-23-2019 07:40 AM)SergioRamos Wrote:  What was the lowest price for Bitcoin in 2019?




Huh? You don't have access to bitcoin price charts?

We use bitstamp in these parts for our price reference, and during calendar year 2019, the low price for bitcoin was about $3,350 between February 6 and February 8.

Look here:
https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstam...10zm2g25zv



The lowest price for this particular price correction cycle was on December 15, 2018, and that price was $3,122 (again on bitstamp). Look here:

https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstam...10zm2g25zv
06-23-2019 09:33 AM
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rpg Offline
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Post: #8132
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Im hoping for a significant pull back. I want to buy more at the $7500 level.
Anybody that got it at the $3500 low must be feeling great.
06-23-2019 09:47 PM
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Post: #8133
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-23-2019 09:47 PM)rpg Wrote:  Im hoping for a significant pull back. I want to buy more at the $7500 level.
Anybody that got it at the $3500 low must be feeling great.

It may or may not go down, and especially going down more than 30% might not be in the cards. Hard to know.

It seems that you have been buying on dips, recently, correct? But there have been people who failed and refused to buy in the $3k to $4k range because they were anticipating a decent pull back from there, even down into the $1,xxx, which seemed a bit unrealistic, but also, as BTC's price went up and broke above $4,200 on April 1, there have been a lot of people waiting for a significant pull back, that really has not happened, even though we did get a couple of flash corrections in the 15% to 25% range, so I suppose those two corrections count for something... and were opportunities for some guys who had been willing to buy under those conditions.

Surely, dollar cost averaging has paid off for any guys who religiously carried out such a practice, even if such guy started such dollar cost averaging in the $19k arena, he would still be decently profitable with current BTC prices.

I understand that if you are still accumulating your BTC, then the cash might not be coming in fast enough to justify making larger purchases, so there is some disadvantage of the BTC price continuing to go up if you have not been able to buy as much as you would have liked at lower prices, which again may or may not happen from here... even though you would think that the odds of a correction are decent, given the amount of UP of about 2.5x that we have experienced in the past less than 3 months.
06-23-2019 10:30 PM
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Post: #8134
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Here's a link to a tweet comparing gold.

In essence bitcoin has had several pumps in the past 7-8 years while gold has remained relatively stable. Sure, there might be a "store of value" in retaining your value, but it seems to me that also, some day, bitcoin will reach a kind of stability in value too... but that stability is likely quite a ways into the future and only after another series of decent sized price appreciiations along the way.. could be 10x, 100x or even 1,000x or more.


https://twitter.com/CryptoBull/status/11...1277747200
[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyOJXIaL.p...bMen00HDig]

Here's a related article in which some bitcoin bulls are rubbing the noses of goldbugs into bitcoins relatively superior performance (especially in recent weeks)

https://cointelegraph.com/news/wheres-th...proponents

Could mean that a BTC price crash is imminent? Perhaps? And, maybe not? I don't think bitcoin gives any shits about what people think, but there still can be some attempts to play on momentum.. and therefore the trend is your friend, until its not.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2019 10:26 AM by JayJuanGee.)
06-24-2019 10:22 AM
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TheBadGuy Offline
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Post: #8135
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
I have bitcoin on breadwallet. Any tips for converting this into cash while limiting any fees?
06-24-2019 12:05 PM
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Post: #8136
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-24-2019 12:05 PM)TheBadGuy Wrote:  I have bitcoin on breadwallet. Any tips for converting this into cash while limiting any fees?

I think that the lowest fees come from having some kind of registered account on an exchange or perhaps fishing around for an BATM with low fees. Many BATMs vary their fees based on how many people are using it in one direction or another, so if there is a lot of buying on a particular BATM, then the fees for selling might be low, relatively speaking.

In person is another option, but Localbitcoins has kind of dried up in that regard.

Making purchases is another option, which is not exactly cash, but if you are buying stuff that you would have bought with your cash, then I don't really see what difference that would be in actual practice.

Your location will affect your options, too in terms of how much fees to pay based on different ways that you can cash out those bitcoins.
06-24-2019 12:48 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-23-2019 09:47 PM)rpg Wrote:  Im hoping for a significant pull back. I want to buy more at the $7500 level.
Anybody that got it at the $3500 low must be feeling great.

I got in at 2500, 6000, 8000, and buying more now. I feel great about all of them. i don't wait for "pullbacks" -- that's a losing strategy.
06-24-2019 03:58 PM
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Post: #8138
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
As I see right now, it's $11,908.
06-25-2019 07:48 PM
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Post: #8139
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Dollar cost averaging $10/week into Bitcoin starting one year ago netted a 60% ROI.

https://dcabtc.com/

(with zero work)

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06-25-2019 08:13 PM
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Post: #8140
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-25-2019 07:48 PM)SergioRamos Wrote:  As I see right now, it's $11,908.

Sure, lots of ongoing and upwards BTC price pressures, and who knows how long this can last.

Seems a bit out of control, and the high on bitstamp, at the moment, as I type, is $11,972.. about 20 minutes ago.

punishment mode. Banana
06-25-2019 08:15 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
I haven't been here in a while and am logging in just to post a question for all you experts. As a side hustle, I've been getting up to speed on all things crypto so I can diversify away some of the cash holding that I have, and have something that hopefully someone in here can clarify:

I've read that miners get rewarded with 12.5 BTC for every block they mine, which is a lot of money, but I've also run across articles on trying to make money mining BTC, and the authors of these articles say that they're barely breaking even or just making a few dollars, even after 1 yr of mining.

Which is true? Is this only a business venture for those who can whip up a "mining factory" or warehouse full of specialized computers?
06-26-2019 12:15 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #8142
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-26-2019 12:15 AM)Papo Wrote:  I haven't been here in a while and am logging in just to post a question for all you experts. As a side hustle, I've been getting up to speed on all things crypto so I can diversify away some of the cash holding that I have, and have something that hopefully someone in here can clarify:

I've read that miners get rewarded with 12.5 BTC for every block they mine, which is a lot of money, but I've also run across articles on trying to make money mining BTC, and the authors of these articles say that they're barely breaking even or just making a few dollars, even after 1 yr of mining.

Which is true? Is this only a business venture for those who can whip up a "mining factory" or warehouse full of specialized computers?

I doubt that we can really answer your questions here, so you may need to research into the matter more.

Anyhow, the basic idea of mining is to compete for the solving of puzzles in order to win the mining reward, on average every 10 minutes, so yeah in the beginning there were not very many miners who have been competing, so their odds of winning the mining reward is higher.

In essence, the most efficient miners are going to be able to win the most mining rewards, but it is not a zero sum game because sometimes less efficient miners will win the reward, too... and furthermore, a lot of miners contribute their mining power into a mining pool in order to increase their odds of getting the reward, but if they win the reward, they have to split the reward in the mining pool.

Difficulty is adjusted every two weeks to make the solving of the math problem easier or harder depending on whether mining blocks had been coming in faster than every 10 minutes or slower than every 10 minutes.

Companies and people who have been mining for a long time have likely learned more tricks to improve their efficiency, and also since mining is a competitive and open market, there are likely some bigger miners who are able to force out some smaller miners too.

There is no simple answer regarding mining, and of course, if you are going to invest in bitcoin, but go in as a miner, then you add an additional layer of complexity, and there are periods and formulas in which mining could be greatly profitable; however if you take into account the competitive nature and just some of the variables in having to own equipment and space, frequently, it would be a lot more profitable and less of a headache to just buy the bitcoins rather than competing to mine the bitcoins and have that extra variable that involves additional costs and skills.
06-26-2019 12:30 AM
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Post: #8143
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-26-2019 12:30 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(06-26-2019 12:15 AM)Papo Wrote:  I haven't been here in a while and am logging in just to post a question for all you experts. As a side hustle, I've been getting up to speed on all things crypto so I can diversify away some of the cash holding that I have, and have something that hopefully someone in here can clarify:

I've read that miners get rewarded with 12.5 BTC for every block they mine, which is a lot of money, but I've also run across articles on trying to make money mining BTC, and the authors of these articles say that they're barely breaking even or just making a few dollars, even after 1 yr of mining.

Which is true? Is this only a business venture for those who can whip up a "mining factory" or warehouse full of specialized computers?

I doubt that we can really answer your questions here, so you may need to research into the matter more.

Anyhow, the basic idea of mining is to compete for the solving of puzzles in order to win the mining reward, on average every 10 minutes, so yeah in the beginning there were not very many miners who have been competing, so their odds of winning the mining reward is higher.

In essence, the most efficient miners are going to be able to win the most mining rewards, but it is not a zero sum game because sometimes less efficient miners will win the reward, too... and furthermore, a lot of miners contribute their mining power into a mining pool in order to increase their odds of getting the reward, but if they win the reward, they have to split the reward in the mining pool.

Difficulty is adjusted every two weeks to make the solving of the math problem easier or harder depending on whether mining blocks had been coming in faster than every 10 minutes or slower than every 10 minutes.

Companies and people who have been mining for a long time have likely learned more tricks to improve their efficiency, and also since mining is a competitive and open market, there are likely some bigger miners who are able to force out some smaller miners too.

There is no simple answer regarding mining, and of course, if you are going to invest in bitcoin, but go in as a miner, then you add an additional layer of complexity, and there are periods and formulas in which mining could be greatly profitable; however if you take into account the competitive nature and just some of the variables in having to own equipment and space, frequently, it would be a lot more profitable and less of a headache to just buy the bitcoins rather than competing to mine the bitcoins and have that extra variable that involves additional costs and skills.

I've heard of miners undercutting everyone else on bidding for the work so I somewhat understand the competitive nature of it, but if my mining computer equipment with mining software installed is connected to the internet and the processors are plugging away at the solving of puzzles, is their work just a tiny thin slice of the work to process 1 block, that it's not even close to that 12.5 BTC reward? I'd see it as negative sum game if my mining equipment does some of the work but doesn't get a portion of the reward.

I'm interested in this as I have some rack servers just sitting gathering dust and thought this could be a good side hustle.
06-26-2019 12:50 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #8144
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-26-2019 12:50 AM)Papo Wrote:  
(06-26-2019 12:30 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(06-26-2019 12:15 AM)Papo Wrote:  I haven't been here in a while and am logging in just to post a question for all you experts. As a side hustle, I've been getting up to speed on all things crypto so I can diversify away some of the cash holding that I have, and have something that hopefully someone in here can clarify:

I've read that miners get rewarded with 12.5 BTC for every block they mine, which is a lot of money, but I've also run across articles on trying to make money mining BTC, and the authors of these articles say that they're barely breaking even or just making a few dollars, even after 1 yr of mining.

Which is true? Is this only a business venture for those who can whip up a "mining factory" or warehouse full of specialized computers?

I doubt that we can really answer your questions here, so you may need to research into the matter more.

Anyhow, the basic idea of mining is to compete for the solving of puzzles in order to win the mining reward, on average every 10 minutes, so yeah in the beginning there were not very many miners who have been competing, so their odds of winning the mining reward is higher.

In essence, the most efficient miners are going to be able to win the most mining rewards, but it is not a zero sum game because sometimes less efficient miners will win the reward, too... and furthermore, a lot of miners contribute their mining power into a mining pool in order to increase their odds of getting the reward, but if they win the reward, they have to split the reward in the mining pool.

Difficulty is adjusted every two weeks to make the solving of the math problem easier or harder depending on whether mining blocks had been coming in faster than every 10 minutes or slower than every 10 minutes.

Companies and people who have been mining for a long time have likely learned more tricks to improve their efficiency, and also since mining is a competitive and open market, there are likely some bigger miners who are able to force out some smaller miners too.

There is no simple answer regarding mining, and of course, if you are going to invest in bitcoin, but go in as a miner, then you add an additional layer of complexity, and there are periods and formulas in which mining could be greatly profitable; however if you take into account the competitive nature and just some of the variables in having to own equipment and space, frequently, it would be a lot more profitable and less of a headache to just buy the bitcoins rather than competing to mine the bitcoins and have that extra variable that involves additional costs and skills.

I've heard of miners undercutting everyone else on bidding for the work so I somewhat understand the competitive nature of it, but if my mining computer equipment with mining software installed is connected to the internet and the processors are plugging away at the solving of puzzles, is their work just a tiny thin slice of the work to process 1 block, that it's not even close to that 12.5 BTC reward? I'd see it as negative sum game if my mining equipment does some of the work but doesn't get a portion of the reward.

I'm interested in this as I have some rack servers just sitting gathering dust and thought this could be a good side hustle.

Your framing of the matter causes me to suspect that you should be studying up about the matter a bit more, but yes, of course, I get your idea that you would like to put your computers to work and if they can make you some money, then that would be a good thing.

I don't exactly know how to set up the computers to do mining, but if you attempt to mine on your own, then it could take you years and years before you actually get a block award, but then you get the reward all to yourself. So yeah, there could be some luck involved, but you could end up not making any money, and that is the cost that you pay for attempting to mine. People join mining pools so that they can increase the likelihood that they will win awards, but it also can give them more steady payment. However, some people do complain that they get paid less than the extra electricity that it causes for them to provide their computing power, so in that regard, there are advantages to people who have become more experienced in the matter, and even some people have figured out ways to get low cost electricity, which helps them to be more competitive, too.

As you likely realize, Bitcoin has been around for more than 10 years, so probably there were periods of time in which it was more highly profitable.. you are likely going to need to look into the matter, because you may or may not be able to make money off of the deal, but you also might not find out until you try it out, also.

Certainly beyond my skills and knowledge, and likely guys who are more into mining discussions are doing that on other forums, and you might want to look into bitcointalk.org or maybe some other forum to brainstorm with people who have more experiences and interest in that particular topic.
06-26-2019 01:18 AM
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Post: #8145
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Unless you bought an ASIC miner for dirt cheap and you have access to free electricity I wouldn't bother with mining. The whole concept of getting something for nothing isn't a thing for bitcoin anymore. Stay away from anything to do with mining, I warned you.
06-26-2019 03:45 AM
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Rocky964 Offline
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Post: #8146
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Guys, i dont understand a thing abbout bitcoin. Lately i have been reading articles which state that the new era of billionaires is from the people opening up bitcoin stock exchanges, bitcoin machines, etc. From where to understand all about bitcoin..... Is it only meant for ultra high net worth individuals, or for upper middle class people also?
06-26-2019 05:38 AM
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SergioRamos Offline
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Post: #8147
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-26-2019 03:45 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  Unless you bought an ASIC miner for dirt cheap and you have access to free electricity I wouldn't bother with mining. The whole concept of getting something for nothing isn't a thing for bitcoin anymore. Stay away from anything to do with mining, I warned you.

Is it that difficult to mine? How's process working? Is there any documentary or youtube link we can watch it from?
06-26-2019 05:55 AM
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Jaydublin Offline
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Post: #8148
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
^^ Yes it is that difficult to mine these days. This isn't the place to learn to mine. I recommend doing a google search and will find a community that knows more about it. There may be some other coins you can mine with a bit more success but who knows.
06-26-2019 06:26 AM
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Post: #8149
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(06-26-2019 05:55 AM)SergioRamos Wrote:  
(06-26-2019 03:45 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  Unless you bought an ASIC miner for dirt cheap and you have access to free electricity I wouldn't bother with mining. The whole concept of getting something for nothing isn't a thing for bitcoin anymore. Stay away from anything to do with mining, I warned you.

Is it that difficult to mine? How's process working? Is there any documentary or youtube link we can watch it from?

There is a thread I started when I was mining in 2017. The info is probably horribly dated, but it's a start.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-65660.html

I got back into mining maybe 5 months ago, because i liked tinkering with them and have a good solar power system, but I always knew that it's not the way to go to make maximum profit. Stay away if that's your aim.
06-26-2019 07:08 AM
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Post: #8150
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
I'm not going into it but I would like to learn about it. I've just know so far that electricity bill goes up really quickly once they start mining.
06-26-2019 07:22 AM
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