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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #8251
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-27-2019 10:42 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  A big part of btc going from 1k to 20k was Ethereum and the ICO/altcoin market driving speculation and demand. 20k to 300k is going to need Libra. I've heard all about the halvening and stock to flow ratios but I just don't see 250k+ in 2 years without a catalyst like Libra injecting money from a small percentage of 2 billion FB users. I suspect most of you will be satisfied with a conservative 50-100k within the next 18-24months before it crashes back to sub 20k levels.

I will accept that "it is what it is" in terms of a multi-faceted dynamic that causes markets, but I find it difficult to suggest that the tail is wagging the dog, because ethereum and its various scam coins are the tail, they are not the dog.

Whether something like Libra coin contributes to bitcoin price dynamics or not, probably does not matter too much; however, bitcoin would not be able to pump if it did not have strong foundations in place, whether it would make it to $50k or $250k in 2 years may or may not be attributable to facebook entering into the scene... presuming that they are able to get some kind of thing off of the ground without some major war.

Even though a lot of us, including yours truly, admitted that they witness bitcoin price performance conditions in the move to $19,666 that were about 4x to 5x more bullish than the more bullish of scenarios, but bitcoin has already demonstrated those kinds of over performances in previous price bubbles, too. Two in 2013 and earlier ones in 2011-ish.

Another dynamic that was going on in 2017 was the somewhat decisive victory that bitcoin experienced with the implementation of segregated witness and the largely failures of hard forking attempt attack vectors, along with a certain amount of financialization coming into place with the launching of the futures. Ethereum and its bullshit scams were largely leeching value off of these matters, but I will also concede that there could have been some symbiotic contributions in terms of dumb money coming into the crypto space that likely had various additional upwards price pressures on bitcoin from time to time, but boiling the situation as if ethereum or some of the other scams were actually the dog rather than the tail or that they deserve some kind of major credit seems to be sloppy way of thinking that tends to leave implications that king daddy gives too many ratt's asses about those or that we should be sucking libra dicks.. and I hope that I am not caught making any of those kinds of seemingly fallacious panderings.
07-29-2019 11:15 PM
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Kid Twist Offline
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Post: #8252
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-26-2019 12:53 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Regarding $20k+ by mid next year, that is not really saying much either.

Apparently now predictions of doubling your money, or more, in less than a year "aren't saying much."

C'mon man. This kind of stuff makes it hard to take you seriously.

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07-29-2019 11:17 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #8253
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-29-2019 11:17 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  
(07-26-2019 12:53 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Regarding $20k+ by mid next year, that is not really saying much either.

Apparently now predictions of doubling your money, or more, in less than a year "aren't saying much."

C'mon man. This kind of stuff makes it hard to take you seriously.

Common man, did you read (understand the context of) my earlier responsive post.

I explained why $20k is not saying much.

Like I already mentioned, $20k is a kind of deadman's land.

Historically, BTC prices have not gotten stuck in the neighborhood of it's previous all time high... at least NOT for very long... so in that regard, there is no reason to believe that we are going to get stuck there, somehow.

Accordingly, I suggested that it would be more informative to predict either that BTC prices are either going above ATH, like in the $24k plus territory or they are going to get stuck below $17.5k for a while...

You said neither of them, and therefore made a kind of vacuous or uninformed point.. and I was trying to help you out in terms of understanding BTC price dynamics, at least from my perspective.

Regarding taking me seriously, I am trying to provide experienced based discussions on the topic, and we have already had a decently long history of nocoiners who come into the thread and provide disinformation, misinformation or some other agenda, and maybe at best just not understanding the market because of their failure/refusal to take any stake in it.

And you, as an ongoing nocoiner, want to educate guys in this thread about BTC price dynamics? Any changes to your investment portfolio recently in the BTC department, or you just want to talk about something that you are personally not participating in? theory?
07-29-2019 11:29 PM
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Post: #8254
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-29-2019 11:17 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  
(07-26-2019 12:53 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Regarding $20k+ by mid next year, that is not really saying much either.

Apparently now predictions of doubling your money, or more, in less than a year "aren't saying much."

C'mon man. This kind of stuff makes it hard to take you seriously.

It's not much in the bitcoin world. You are applying the old world view to a new paradigm, which is dangerous.
07-30-2019 01:11 AM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-30-2019 01:11 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:  
(07-29-2019 11:17 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  
(07-26-2019 12:53 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Regarding $20k+ by mid next year, that is not really saying much either.

Apparently now predictions of doubling your money, or more, in less than a year "aren't saying much."

C'mon man. This kind of stuff makes it hard to take you seriously.

It's not much in the bitcoin world. You are applying the old world view to a new paradigm, which is dangerous.

It is actually strange regarding the various expectations of people in the bitcoin or crypto space, which certainly might not play out as they had done in historical times.

Some guys might recall here that for a decent part of 2017 I was being trolled in this thread by Armogan, and a lot of RVF members seemed to like it, but one of the themes that he kept pushing was to denigrate bitcoin at various points in time because it was only up 2x then 5x then 10x and finally around 28x when it got to the top of its $19,666 price run.

Armogan did have to bite his tongue several times, because I think that sometimes even he recognized the ridiculousness of some of his arguments, yet some times, part of Armogan's justification was that BTC was that during that time bitcoin was losing market dominance on coinmarket cap and there was also some discussion of certain coins out performing bitcoin in terms of some of the short term measurements.

I was certainly happy with 28x price appreciation, and I think that my personal portfolio was probably only in the 20x category, and I was still happy when my portfolio dropped down into the 4x to 5x profits territory.. and now bounced back into around a 12x profits territory.... but anyhow, any of us who is studying this space, should recognize that it is NOT very likely that some of these kinds of outrageous price moves are over - even though we might not want to take them for granted, but we had more than a 3.5x price rise in less than 3 months that ended at the end of June, and we are still floating a bit more than 2x from our April 1 break out from $4,200.

So, yeah, $20k could be a kind of meaningless territory if we are actually attempting to consider what actually is going to happen in the coming months or could such upwards BTC price movement drag out for a few years?

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07-30-2019 01:28 AM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
I find Armogan insufferable but he was actually right. Maximalists missed out on untold gains because they refused to partake in the alt market. All the Ethereum people got in 2016 and early 2017 made more money than Bitcoin holders from 2012, it's a fact. I probably have more btc than all the Maximalists in this thread probably because I gambled on "Ethereum scamcoins" when they came out early instead of dollar cost averaging into BTC. The only reason you can brag about a 28x is because you got in earlier, it had nothing to do with skills. It's the same for me too, I got into a successful alt early and Armogan probably has BTC in the four digits because he got into the market earlier than me.

Many people here got into crypto mid 2017 and would only have made less than 5x with btc and this is assuming they bought at the bottom and sold at the top at the end in 2017. This line of argument of just buying Bitcoin sounds ludicrous to new people because of the diminishing risk/return. New people that come into this space think 10x with Bitcoin is a bad deal because they can get similar results in traditional markets. Yes, he took his trolling too far but had you listened to him you still would have made money. He's not biting his tongue, he made more money than any of us and he's just banned.
07-30-2019 04:55 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-30-2019 04:55 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  I find Armogan insufferable but he was actually right. Maximalists missed out on untold gains because they refused to partake in the alt market. All the Ethereum people got in 2016 and early 2017 made more money than Bitcoin holders from 2012, it's a fact.

I am not sure about why you are so inclined to get off topic by defending altcoin investing? I had already conceded that there were likely ways that you could make more money with various other strategies, but main point was to suggest that 28x gains should be enough for a vast variety of reasons. I know some guys want more but then also just like a gambler likes to talk about winnings only, sometimes there may be a lot of losses in there too.

I am not suggesting that you don't follow your passions, if you want to gamble on other altcoins, then that is your choice. If you are a long term investor, bitcoin is already pretty damned risky and has been profitable, so maybe or maybe not about missing out of profits in ethereum, because if you did not get the fuck out of it, then you would likely be in trouble... but again, that is not really topical in this thread. So if you somehow believe that you cannot make enough money in BTC alone, you can have that philosophy and it may or may not get you into trouble, especially if you don't want to think about your investment so much and have a longer term plan that from some point of views (including my own) complicated enough just trying to keep up with the bitcoin aspect of your investment.

(07-30-2019 04:55 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  I probably have more btc than all the Maximalists in this thread probably because I gambled on "Ethereum scamcoins" when they came out early instead of dollar cost averaging into BTC.

If you can make it work for you then fine, and it seems that you are likely in and out a lot with a lot of those investments. If you look at the longer term performance of a lot of those investment, BTC is doing way the fuck better on its own in terms of dollar cost averaging, buying on dips and mostly holding the asset.

Seems that if you want to tout your strategy, then that would be a topic for somewhere else no?

Sure, it is topical to say that currently you are measuring some aspect of your wealth in BTC, and sure it is good that you seem to be saying that you are accumulating BTC.. so all of that is good, I suppose.

I know of a lot of people who got reckt pretty badly by overallocating into other coins, so it is NOT easy to outline a meaningful way to get in and out of other coins.

I will admit that I made some mistakes with my BTC portfolio, here and there, but I am not going to say that any of my mistakes were from NOT investing in a random variety of alt coins, but even with my mistakes, I am decently over 12x in profits right now, so I even if you can spout a larger number seems that guys should be able to figure out ways to even be happy with 2x or 4x or some smaller numbers if they are taking measures to protect their investments and tailoring their investments to their own situations.

I have mentioned on numerous times that my mediocre profits in traditional investments averaged about 5.5% per year on average over around 30 years of investing, and there was a certain great value in building an nestegg over that many years with compounding effects, and thereafter being able to use some of that nestegg on bitcoin in a way that did not feel overly risky, while making profits that were much beyond my prior performance and even flexible self-directed investing options that were available. I still have trouble understanding how even having performance that is in the 50% per year average and above categories with bitcoin would NOT be preferable to guys without having to consider strategies that take as many risks. In that sense, if we are talking today, I think that altcoins still pose much more risk than bitcoin and they are not necessary in order to have a decently sound overall investment strategy as long as you already have bitcoin in your portfolio.

On an optional basis, of course, you could add such risk of additional coins and may or may not get you additional returns, merely because of the most likely additional (and from my point of view unnecessary) risk.

(07-30-2019 04:55 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  The only reason you can brag about a 28x is because you got in earlier,

I don't think that I was bragging, I was trying to figure out a reasonable bouncing off point, and for some reason I was using $700 as the bouncing off point. Probably a more reasonable bouncing off point would be to measure from $250, which was the price for a decent amount of 2015 and the start of that particular bull run (which we did not know until later) and then would cause our price performance measurements to be in the 78x territory.

I was trying to discuss the overall performance of the asset during that period of time, and of course, when guys got in and how they would have been investing would have had various kinds of affects on their returns.

It would have likely been much more difficult to plump in a lot of money all at once and to profit in that way, and even though I don't recommend that kind of strategy, it would have ended up performing better than a dollar cost averaging strategy during the same time.

On the other hand, a dollar cost averaging would have likely done better for guys getting in near the top of the market in the $19k territory or some other high price point, which can be a bit stressful, even though it does seem to pay off decently well if you have a decently long time line of at least a few years.

I think that these days, we can recommend a timeline of at least a few years, and when I got into bitcoin in 2013, it was not so prudent to even be considering that long of a timeline because even then, it seemed like bitcoin had not had as much time to prove itself on a longer term basis, and currently it seems that bitcoin has largely proven itself as the king daddy of crypto... and there really still does not seem to be any need to panic with various other cryptos in order to still get really decent profits in the space... with an ongoing asymmetric bet like bitcoin.

(07-30-2019 04:55 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  it had nothing to do with skills.

I am not proclaiming to have any skills. I talk about dollar cost averaging and long term investing, and the main skills are to start investing and try to be persistent with it and over time your investment should pay off. Of course, I have done some other tweaking here and there which may have not really improved much of anything beyond a strict ongoing dollar cost averaging system.

(07-30-2019 04:55 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  It's the same for me too, I got into a successful alt early and Armogan probably has BTC in the four digits because he got into the market earlier than me.

So, you seem to be saying that adding altcoins to your investment is better than just having BTC, and we differ in that perspective... to the extent that is what you are saying or suggesting that guys do.

(07-30-2019 04:55 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  Many people here got into crypto mid 2017 and would only have made less than 5x with btc and this is assuming they bought at the bottom and sold at the top at the end in 2017.

Well, yeah 2017 was crazy with a whole hell of a lot of pumping of various projects, and surely a lot of guys could have gotten in and gotten screwed if they did not get out. So, if they had a decent amount in BTC, then they probably would be doing decently well right now. Cannot really speak to all of the situations, and that was not my point in bringing up the size of the returns. Like I said, I had meant to be referring to the beginning of the BTC bull run in 2015 which would have been 78x returns, but somehow I got caught up into using $700 as my base and referring to 28x returns.

Also, I understand that guys are going to do all kinds of things, and personally, I am not really recommending any attempts to time the market, even though I recognize that timing the market strategies can be more profitable if they are employed well.

From my thinking it just becomes very difficult to try to time any market, so that is part of the reason that on an ongoing basis I suggest that guys start out with dollar cost averaging into bitcoin while they study the space and figure out for themselves if they want to diversify their strategy beyond that kind of approach, which diversification beyond bitcoin or even beyond dollar cost averaging may or may not be suitable for every guy, that's for sure.



(07-30-2019 04:55 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  This line of argument of just buying Bitcoin sounds ludicrous to new people because of the diminishing risk/return.

dollar cost averaging works. I believe that I provided some links to some calculating websites earlier that you could plug in a variety of time frames and numbers to see how it would have done, even if you started buying at the top of BTC. So some strategies might sound ludicrous, but they are proven to work in traditional markets and in bitcoin, and I think that bitcoin remains one of the only assets that it is really prudent to recommend such a dollar cost averaging..

I believe that you might be suggesting other strategies like timing the market and other coins, which even though some guys might be attracted to those strategies, I am not sure if they are prudent, overall, unless you can provide some more specific guidance on how any guy is supposed to employ such alternative approach that you seem to be suggesting.

(07-30-2019 04:55 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  New people that come into this space think 10x with Bitcoin is a bad deal because they can get similar results in traditional markets.

I am not going to start with any kind of presumption that you get 10x or anything close to that in traditional markets. Like I already mentioned, I invested in index funds and things like that for 30 years, and overall my average was 5.5%. Of course some years were better than others, but if you take conservative investment strategies, most people are not earning really high returns.... maybe 20% averages might be on the high side to even be able to maintain those over a long period of time in traditional markets.

Personally, I don't think that it is too prudent to be too greedy in the kinds of returns that you are seeking unless you feel that you are taking some adequate and comfortable measures to protect your holdings from downside risk too, and I believe that bitcoin is the best of the cryptos for this.. and of course, topical for this thread to focus on mostly bitcoin, even though guys might have some other cryptos that they invest in and maybe they should take those discussions to some other thread unless they can clearly describe some kind of strategy that also mostly focuses on bitcoin, largely for the purposes of topicality.


(07-30-2019 04:55 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  Yes, he took his trolling too far but had you listened to him you still would have made money.

You threw a dart at a board, you would have made money in 2017, so are you saying much?

(07-30-2019 04:55 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  He's not biting his tongue, he made more money than any of us and he's just banned.

We cannot really know if some troll made more money than us, and I question whether it really matters. The main point should be that guys attempt to structure their strategies to their own conditions including their cash flow, timeline, risk tolerance, skills and time for trading and tweak along the way. Of course, within their own parameters, they might want to prefer a course of making more money over one that does not, but if there is some questions regarding certainty of such strategies then that should be accounted for too. Of course, some guys have more time to tweak or to play around with their portfolios, and other guys want to set it and forget it, so in the end each of the guys have to tailor to their own circumstances.
07-30-2019 08:10 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #8258
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-30-2019 08:10 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-30-2019 04:55 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  New people that come into this space think 10x with Bitcoin is a bad deal because they can get similar results in traditional markets.

I am not going to start with any kind of presumption that you get 10x or anything close to that in traditional markets. Like I already mentioned, I invested in index funds and things like that for 30 years, and overall my average was 5.5%. Of course some years were better than others, but if you take conservative investment strategies, most people are not earning really high returns.... maybe 20% averages might be on the high side to even be able to maintain those over a long period of time in traditional markets.

Personally, I don't think that it is too prudent to be too greedy in the kinds of returns that you are seeking unless you feel that you are taking some adequate and comfortable measures to protect your holdings from downside risk too, and I believe that bitcoin is the best of the cryptos for this.. and of course, topical for this thread to focus on mostly bitcoin, even though guys might have some other cryptos that they invest in and maybe they should take those discussions to some other thread unless they can clearly describe some kind of strategy that also mostly focuses on bitcoin, largely for the purposes of topicality.

I want to supplement my response from yesterday regarding your suggestion that anyone should be poo pooing 10x returns with any investment whether crypto or otherwise.

That's such a ridiculous expectation to believe that anything close to 10x or higher is a reasonable return, especially to be able to sustain such a return, even though there are likely some people with those kinds of inflated and unrealistic expectations.

I went back and I did a bit of calculation of my BTC returns, and tried to get a kind of average per six months, and of course some of this can be a bit difficult to pinpoint, depending on how it is calculated, and surely I had been engaged in a kind of dollar cost average investing too, which also could screw up some of the calculating of the overall returns.

Nonetheless, when I look back, currently, my average for every six months from starting BTC in late 2013 to present would be around 29% per every 6 months. Of course, that is including the fact that the first nearly 3 years, my portfolio was either in the red or barely out of the red, towards the end of the first three year period. Furthermore, I think that it stupendously well accounting for the way that I invested and the way that I was attempting to spread out the risk.

I am not sure whether I will be able to sustain such a rate of return, and of course, if I were to combine the calculation with my other investments, then that 29% per 6 months would get diluted down, but it would also raise up the average per year of my other investments. For now I am keeping the calculations separate, and I still believe that it would be unrealistic to expect to get higher returns than that in any kind of sustainable way without necessarily going through down years and up years, even though it could be possible in short term streaks of luck.

Of course, if some guys did not get in at the top of a growth period (like I did in 2013), then they would be able to demonstrate way greater returns than me in terms of percentages, but I still would combat anyone who wants to second guess the way that I approached the matter because I attempted to do so in a way that I was tailoring my investment plan to my own situation, including my other investments, my cash flow, my view of the asset as compared with other assets, my risk tolerance, my timeline and my skills and time that I would have to study the matter.
07-30-2019 11:27 PM
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Post: #8259
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Allegedly Paypal is freezing and locking accounts of people trying to access their coinbase funds. Martini Guy on youtube, had over 5K pounds frozen for 180 days and his paypal closed.
Im not sure why he chose to withdrawl through paypal and not just a wire transfer to his bank but the potential of this happening is serious.
07-31-2019 03:53 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Take your bitcoin and buy physical gold at jmbullion.com. They’ll ship it free over $99 purchase. Not the ideal way to cash out but it works.

The fed just cut interest rates today. They say gold will go to $5k an ounce and silver to the moon.

I bought $1200 worth of silver eagle coins this week myself.

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07-31-2019 04:49 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-31-2019 04:49 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Take your bitcoin and buy physical gold at jmbullion.com. They’ll ship it free over $99 purchase. Not the ideal way to cash out but it works.

The fed just cut interest rates today. They say gold will go to $5k an ounce and silver to the moon.

I bought $1200 worth of silver eagle coins this week myself.

Or have foresight and hodl your bitcoin and sell your shiny rocks for more bitcoin.
07-31-2019 04:51 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-31-2019 04:49 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Take your bitcoin and buy physical gold at jmbullion.com. They’ll ship it free over $99 purchase. Not the ideal way to cash out but it works.

The fed just cut interest rates today. They say gold will go to $5k an ounce and silver to the moon.

I bought $1200 worth of silver eagle coins this week myself.

While in principle BTC and precious metals serve the function of store of value, I see some key differences.

First, the utility of BTC is that it can be quickly sent to another wallet in a matter of seconds. Secondly, the storage of BTC ensures that you can "carry" your BTC on in a hardwallet like Ledger/trezor and move theoretically millions of dollars with you on your "wallet" if you leave the country to relocate. You can't do either of those things with gold or silver and if you don't pay a storage fee with a trusted third party storage facility you could be robbed easier if someone finds your gold stash at your home.

There is also a generational gap which is significant as very few under 45 year olds in the West want to own gold and silver. Pretty much the market for buying Gold is older people or countries in the Middle East and Asia due to a cultural association that views gold as money and limited ways of investing. This trend of younger people shunning gold and silver won't help demand going forward, as more younger people will divert funds to buy BTC.

Finally, and perhaps most significant is the fact that most of the gold is owned by the Central Banks. Since they also control the currency supply why would they ever let the price of gold reach very high levels since that would trigger a loss of faith in national currencies. If you go further down this rabbit hole, you will realize that the gold and silver markets have been rigged for decades via the Comex where large traders control future prices with 20-1 leverage. Supply or demand rarely enters into the picture as large traders can manipulate prices by dumping or buying up physical contracts with that leverage. Max Kieser has talked a lot about this, part of the reason he is bullish on BTC. (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/12/ex-jp-mo...-suit.html)

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07-31-2019 05:19 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #8263
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-31-2019 04:49 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Take your bitcoin and buy physical gold at jmbullion.com. They’ll ship it free over $99 purchase. Not the ideal way to cash out but it works.

The fed just cut interest rates today. They say gold will go to $5k an ounce and silver to the moon.

I bought $1200 worth of silver eagle coins this week myself.

Have any of us been going over to your PM threads to pump bitcoin? Hardly.

Now you want to make some kind of battle or comparison of bitcoin to PMs such as gold and silver, or what? You come over to the bitcoin thread to pump gold and silver?

I might concede to you that PMs such as gold and silver have decent chances to pump a bit more in the near term future (in terms of their fiat value), since they have been on a bit of a recent pumpening; however, that does not mean that it would be prudent for any guy to diversify out of bitcoin into some things that are far inferior in a large number of ways including their likely future performance whether we are looking at one year, 3 years, 5 years or longer.

Bitcoin has been outperforming gold, silver and many other traditional investments for many years, and there are really no signs that bitcoin's overachiever performance status is not going to continue in the amongst the best of asset classes into the future, especially in the upcoming 18 months or so in which bitcoin's halvening happens.

https://twitter.com/BitKrabs/status/1156516105734840320

[Image: EAzFRF4X4AAWkjW?format=jpg&name=small]

By the way, Parlay44, do you even understand what bitcoin is as compared to your old school gold and silver? Do you understand an investment opportunity of a lifetime in terms of paradigm shifting including portability, verifiability, divisibility, or just having to NOT go through third parties to secure or transport it and other services to manage it?

Furthermore, bitcoin is likely to be within potentially early stages of an exponential s-curve adoption. Do you understand that? making bitcoin to be a very asymmetric bet, even as compared with pms such as gold and silver. One of the only ways that gold or silver could become an asymmetric bet would be if the world went through an Armageddon scenario, which is not too likely. Surely guys should not be structuring their investment strategy for Armageddon scenarios that are not too likely to happen and really should be investing in proportions to future probabilities that are m likely to happen, no?

Of course guys are free to make their Armageddon preparation decisions and even to live their lives like that, if they wish.

Personally, I don't own any gold, and I think that it is almost completely unnecessary because bitcoin serves as a better hedge against dollar based investment, and has for years, but I would not be opposed if guys were to consider a small percentage of their portfolio in gold or silver - but really not at the trade off of their bitcoin holdings, which like I already mentioned is way more likely in the coming years to be a much better investment than pms such as gold or silver or many other traditional investment categories.
07-31-2019 05:27 PM
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bacon
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-31-2019 03:53 PM)rpg Wrote:  Allegedly Paypal is freezing and locking accounts of people trying to access their coinbase funds. Martini Guy on youtube, had over 5K pounds frozen for 180 days and his paypal closed.
Im not sure why he chose to withdrawl through paypal and not just a wire transfer to his bank but the potential of this happening is serious.

Correct, if paypal is in bed/on board with 'facecoin'/Libra they are definitely going to crack down on any other crypto currency connections.

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07-31-2019 05:55 PM
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Parlay44 Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
I’m not trying to pump precious metals. As much as I like bitcoin and wish I had put more money into it early on like most people ...what good is it if you can’t spend it?

I was just giving some information to those that want to cash out but can’t due to the powers that be.

Id be a little pissed off if they locked my paypal.

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07-31-2019 06:23 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-31-2019 06:23 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  I’m not trying to pump precious metals. As much as I like bitcoin and wish I had put more money into it early on like most people ...what good is it if you can’t spend it?

I was just giving some information to those that want to cash out but can’t due to the powers that be.

Id be a little pissed off if they locked my paypal.

Fair enough if your intention is not to pump gold, and I suppose there can be some reasonable discussion around this kind of topic as a bitcoin-related matter.

Of course, if you are suggesting to cash out some bitcoins and to buy gold with it, you are presuming that gold is going to price perform better than bitcoin in the future, no?

Regarding paypal? Are you referring to some information recently that people had been having trouble withdrawing some of their value from coinbase through paypal? Coinbase is not bitcoin, even though they offer an exchange, onboarding and offboarding services around bitcoin.

You seem to be suggesting that something is less stable currently in bitcoin as compared with pms such as gold and silver, and you are likely presuming way too much because there are a lot of ways that guys could hold their bitcoin and even if there might be problems with some bitcoin service providers, that would not necessarily mean that it is not a good idea to hold bitcoin.

If you may have recalled in 2017, there was all kinds of controversy in bitcoin regarding whether it was going to be attacked and devalued and whether coins should b e held on exchanges, etc etc; however, during that period bitcoin prices went from less than $1,000 in the early parts of the year to $19,666 by mid December. Of course, the price fall after mid-December 2017 and has not yet returned to such levels, yet part of my point here is that there can be all kinds of perspectives about future price direction of bitcoin, but over the years it has price performed quite well, as is outlined in the chart that I provided in my earlier post.

If you are giving some information, as you suggested, what is the information that you are giving exactly. With your largely non-substantive post and then your further response, I am continuing to question whether you really understand bitcoin, and even if you say that you are not in this thread to pump gold, your actions kind of defy your words because you are still seeming to leave some implication that gold is going to be a better price performer than bitcoin? But at the same time, you are not really providing anything to back your implicated assertion beyond a conclusory statement.

Furthermore both, I and Bacon gave decently outlined reasons why guys might not have as much confidence in gold (as compared with bitcoin) as you would like to suggest, but you have not provided one iota of a substantive response to any of the points that either of us made in response to your initial "buy gold with your bitcoins" post.
07-31-2019 06:43 PM
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Swordfish1010 Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
^ @parlay. Bitcoin is already a better medium of exchange than gold. Good luck getting a merchant to accept physical gold. However, it is still in the store of value phase so spending it right now is foolish anyways. It’s still early days. Zoom out on the log charts. Otherwise you’ll look back to this thread 5 years from now with great distaste and regrets.
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2019 06:45 PM by Swordfish1010.)
07-31-2019 06:44 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
^ For this reason, sword, should some of us just buy GBTC for the time being as our mainly owned asset?

Get your passport ready!
07-31-2019 06:59 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Appreciate the mention about gold, Parlay44. There's chatter on the net about people buying gold with crypto then depositing the gold in their bank and using that to access credit and send money abroad to oversea bank accounts.

Why does this work?

1) Buyin gold with crypto (BTC/XMR)
2) In some countries, there is no capital gains on gold.

From what I hear the trend is selling gold for Bitcoin when BTC price is down, selling Bitcoin when it moons for cash/gold. Deposit gold in bank to access credit. Basically bouncing back and forth between gold and Bitcoin. Mind blown.

PS: I'll get back to JJG later but don't want to clog the thread with unproductive banter.
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2019 07:11 PM by [email protected].)
07-31-2019 07:10 PM
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Post: #8270
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-31-2019 06:59 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  ^ For this reason, sword, should some of us just buy GBTC for the time being as our mainly owned asset?


I doubt that many prudent investors would be suggesting to put all of you value into one asset, and GBTC is not exactly bitcoin. It is a paper version of bitcoin that is sold at a premium price. Usually it would be better to own the asset directly unless you have some institutional limitations that would not allow you to own bitcoin directly and thereby you would purchase the paper version of bitcoin (GBTC).
07-31-2019 07:15 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
There are some current debates between gold bugs and bitcoin bugs from time to time (including today), and even though I believe that Peter Schiff did pretty good in this recent debate with Anthony Pompliano, by largely reiterating his nonsense, the debate is about bitcoin versus gold, and I suppose timely and topical for this thread.. maybe even making some of Parlay44's goldbug arguments?



07-31-2019 07:24 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-31-2019 06:59 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  ^ For this reason, sword, should some of us just buy GBTC for the time being as our mainly owned asset?

Depending on BTC sentiment, the premium for GBTC can be very high. It's averaged around 25-35% premium for the last few months, but its also gone as low as 10% and as high as 90%. It is also subject to shorts and longs that traditional traders who invest with a brokerage account use, which also impacts this premium.

That said, it's a safe way to invest as the custodians of the bitcoin probably have the best security imaginable for crypto assets. It is also an easy way to get exposure to BTC with out going through the other platforms to buy and sell it.

https://crypto.neotechdevs.com/GBTC.jsp

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(This post was last modified: 07-31-2019 07:54 PM by bacon.)
07-31-2019 07:53 PM
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Swordfish1010 Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(07-31-2019 06:59 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  ^ For this reason, sword, should some of us just buy GBTC for the time being as our mainly owned asset?

If that is the only way you can get exposure to it, sure. It trades at a premium though. I would just self custody your own bitcoin off an exchange like cash app.
07-31-2019 10:51 PM
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Post: #8274
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Here's a nice little tweet of a picture to substantively and materially explain ethereum to any of you who want to get a bit of a visual of how ethereum compares with bitcoin as an investment.

https://twitter.com/fluffypony/status/11...21984?s=20

[Image: EA3gOlrXYAA4hON?format=jpg&name=small]
08-01-2019 02:14 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
which hardware wallet do you guys recommend? and why
08-12-2019 11:50 AM
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