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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #8626
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(11-29-2019 12:19 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 11:53 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Take any us here in this forum and this thread, with a BIG ASS grain of salt, SilentOne, because you should be figuring out a comfortable balance for yourself.

I understand that all of us are working off of incomplete information, but with any kind of fairly new investment area (referring to crypto space more broadly) there is going to be a decent amount of risk, so the fact that you are taking some action and attempting to find a good balance for yourself seems to be a way that you would be more likely to really learn and get a grasp on what is going on in the space in a way that is comfortable for yourself, in terms of your chosen balances.

As i stated earlier my crypto investments are nothing but play money. I wouldn't put more than 5% allocation of my investment portfolio into it.

Hey, I am not trying to sell you on it, because ultimately I don't give too many shits about what guys ultimately decide to do in terms of choosing to buy into bitcoin or not. My seemingly obsessive participation in this thread remains largely a product of my getting sucked more and more into bitcoin as a hobby, and of course, researching it and playing around with various strategies in regards to it has become a lot more of a time-suck for me, than I had originally anticipated. But, anyhow, it is what it is in terms of my own time-management around the topic and how much time I end up spending on the topic.

Regarding your 5% top, it surely is within a range that I would consider to be completely reasonable, so your description of yourself as a skeptic, dabbler or even reserved in terms of crypto (bitcoin or whatever) is way more aggressive than a lot of folks who are still quite reluctant to get off zero, and that remains part of the reason that for several years, already, I have become quite comfortable with being quite vocally aggressive with people in saying that they should get off zero and in that respect my recommendation as 1% as a minimum. In the end, I give two shits about what people do because that is their choice.

My real world interactions are not that much different, and even though I think about bitcoin quite a lot, I won't even bring up the topic if no one else does or if the conversation does not meander into that direction, so even though yesterday I spent about 12 hours with a mixed group of relatives ("mixed" meaning that some of them were ones with whom I have fairly aggressively asserted that they invest in bitcoin, and others with whom I have not even mentioned the topic), and not even once did I mention bitcoin, and that kind of financial discussion did not end up coming up with any of my interactions, and I was pretty much interacting quite a lot during that time. So, I am not pushing the topic on anyone, but if it ends up coming up in any meaningful way, I will suggest a 1% minimum investment, and hardly anyone in the real world actually acts upon it in any kind of meaningful way, even though several people in the real world will state that they agree with me, they don't do anything to actually begin the process, so in that sense, I am suggesting that you are doing way more than what seems to continue to be the vast majority of people by just beginning to actively engage and look into the matter.. and even to take a position that you consider to be relatively tiny.


(11-29-2019 12:19 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  Bitcoin is too volatile for my comfort levels.

No problem. One of the most guaranteed dynamics of bitcoin seems to be that it is both volatile and likely to continue to be volatile into the near to medium term future 2 years to 10 years. Almost a guaranteed inevitability, and there are ways to structure your investment in such a way to profit from something that you consider to be nearly inevitable (that is if you end up agreeing with my proposition that bitcoin is quite likely to continue to be volatile).

(11-29-2019 12:19 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  I'm more of a blue chips stocks kind of guy and finally decided to dabble in this game of crypto.

Actually me too. I had nearly 30 years of investing before bitcoin, and even if I have had some moments of experimenting in my investments, my investments have tended to gravitate towards being largely pretty damned conservative over those years and I ended up having a lot of index funds because of convenience (not exactly blue chip, but index funds do seem to track pretty closely to blue chip stocks).


(11-29-2019 12:19 PM)SilentOne Wrote:  I will read more into it but my sights are far more focused on real estate as of late. Anyhow thanks for the heads up.

I definitely have no real problem with real estate, except as I had already suggested earlier, there has been quite a bit of movement of even that asset class to get fucked up and manipulated by irresponsible monetary policies. What I mean is that real estate should be a pretty solid investment in terms of holding its value over time, and even not correlated to dollar tanking issues, but what has happened is that the irresponsible high levels of cash availability over the years causes lot of that excess cash to get pumped into real estate and then the real estate becomes way over valued because of irresponsibility in other segments of the market... same is true for gold, and since bitcoin is new, it has not yet gotten those kinds of manipulation (and there surely are questions about whether bitcoin is going to be subject to similar kinds of manipulation, even though we can almost guarantee that such manipulation will be tried, and if some manipulation attempts of bitcoin are successful how successful that will be).
11-29-2019 12:48 PM
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soum500 Offline
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Post: #8627
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
I still own my Bitcoin, honestly I'm just curious to know how it's going to move in the years that come some good post on the subject.
https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-is-2019...e-downturn
https://cryptoslate.com/november-has-his...different/
https://moreforexbrokers.com/best-forex-brokers/
https://cryptopotato.com/bitcoin-marks-i...ly-report/
I want to invest $1000 in a new cryptocurrency do you have any suggestions for me?
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2019 01:20 PM by soum500.)
12-01-2019 01:20 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #8628
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(12-01-2019 01:20 PM)soum500 Wrote:  I still own my Bitcoin, honestly I'm just curious to know how it's going to move in the years that come some good post on the subject.
https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-is-2019...e-downturn
https://cryptoslate.com/november-has-his...different/
https://moreforexbrokers.com/best-forex-brokers/
https://cryptopotato.com/bitcoin-marks-i...ly-report/
I want to invest $1000 in a new cryptocurrency do you have any suggestions for me?

It is a bit unclear what you are asking because 1) this is a bitcoin thread, and sure your links are positive about bitcoin which is fine and seems that you should already realize that there is nothing wrong with just continuing to invest in bitcoin and 2) you seem to be asking what is the next bitcoin or how (not whether) you should diversify your risk, which is not necessarily by investing into some shitcoin, merely because either the shitcoin is claiming that there is something wrong with bitcoin or that they are improving on bitcoin in some kind of way.

So, maybe you can clarify your purpose here? I am assuming that the rest of your finances are o.k. and that you have already invested sufficiently in bitcoin (which you asserted), but maybe I am assuming too much?
12-01-2019 02:16 PM
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #8629
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Whatever you do, make sure that you understand all the security aspects of housing crypto-currencies. This is a long and interesting article about Quadriga, which became Canada’s dominant Bitcoin marketplace -- only to have its owner mysteriously "die" and have all its BC become inaccessible. It also highlights the risk of placing all your funds into one investment.

Quote:(For months, Miller Thomson, the Bay Street law firm appointed to represent the class of creditors, received hundreds of emails a day inquiring about the lost funds, and answered such a constant barrage of phone calls—heartbreakers about lost pensions and college savings, babies crying in the background—that its lawyers could do little else.)

Quote:A month passed before Robertson announced on Quadriga’s Facebook page that Cotten had died. During that time Quadriga continued to accept new funds but returned none. Creditors began to ask questions online about the authenticity of the formal documents in a country notorious for the ease at which falsified documents can be purchased, particularly after they learned that the death certificate misspelled Cotten’s name, and that the former chairman and managing director of the company that ran the hospital had been convicted of financial fraud two months earlier. It was also revealed that Cotten had written his will just four days before leaving for India. It detailed C$12 million in real estate holdings, the Lexus, the Cessna, and the Gulliver; it left C$100,000 for the care of their Chihuahuas. The will made no mention of the external hard drives, called cold wallets, in which Cotten had stored most of Quadriga’s funds.

This was the detail that most shocked cryptocurrency professionals. If Trust No One was the first principle of Bitcoin, the second was Have a Plan B, and the third was Have a Plan C. If you lose the keys to your house, you can call a locksmith; if you forget the password to your savings account, your bank will provide a new one. If you lose the private key to your cryptocurrency wallet—a long, randomly generated password, all but impossible to memorize—your funds are gone forever.

Quote:Because Canadian banks refused to accept cryptocurrency businesses as clients, Quadriga had to rely on third-party processors, which levied outrageous fees and in some cases stole funds outright. One Quadriga contractor claims today that the payment processor WB21, now the subject of federal lawsuits in the United States, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom, stole $14 million, and that another processor stole $5.8 million. (Patryn, Jennifer Robertson, and at least a couple of other Quadriga contractors each operated their own payment processing firms—a significant conflict of interest, though not illegal.) There was also the C$21 million seized by CIBC and the software glitch, which cost Quadriga C$14 million overnight.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/11/...ald-cotten
12-01-2019 05:58 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #8630
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(12-01-2019 05:58 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  Whatever you do, make sure that you understand all the security aspects of housing crypto-currencies. This is a long and interesting article about Quadriga, which became Canada’s dominant Bitcoin marketplace -- only to have its owner mysteriously "die" and have all its BC become inaccessible. It also highlights the risk of placing all your funds into one investment.

Quote:(For months, Miller Thomson, the Bay Street law firm appointed to represent the class of creditors, received hundreds of emails a day inquiring about the lost funds, and answered such a constant barrage of phone calls—heartbreakers about lost pensions and college savings, babies crying in the background—that its lawyers could do little else.)

Quote:A month passed before Robertson announced on Quadriga’s Facebook page that Cotten had died. During that time Quadriga continued to accept new funds but returned none. Creditors began to ask questions online about the authenticity of the formal documents in a country notorious for the ease at which falsified documents can be purchased, particularly after they learned that the death certificate misspelled Cotten’s name, and that the former chairman and managing director of the company that ran the hospital had been convicted of financial fraud two months earlier. It was also revealed that Cotten had written his will just four days before leaving for India. It detailed C$12 million in real estate holdings, the Lexus, the Cessna, and the Gulliver; it left C$100,000 for the care of their Chihuahuas. The will made no mention of the external hard drives, called cold wallets, in which Cotten had stored most of Quadriga’s funds.

This was the detail that most shocked cryptocurrency professionals. If Trust No One was the first principle of Bitcoin, the second was Have a Plan B, and the third was Have a Plan C. If you lose the keys to your house, you can call a locksmith; if you forget the password to your savings account, your bank will provide a new one. If you lose the private key to your cryptocurrency wallet—a long, randomly generated password, all but impossible to memorize—your funds are gone forever.

Quote:Because Canadian banks refused to accept cryptocurrency businesses as clients, Quadriga had to rely on third-party processors, which levied outrageous fees and in some cases stole funds outright. One Quadriga contractor claims today that the payment processor WB21, now the subject of federal lawsuits in the United States, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom, stole $14 million, and that another processor stole $5.8 million. (Patryn, Jennifer Robertson, and at least a couple of other Quadriga contractors each operated their own payment processing firms—a significant conflict of interest, though not illegal.) There was also the C$21 million seized by CIBC and the software glitch, which cost Quadriga C$14 million overnight.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/11/...ald-cotten

Are you saying that you manage your bitcoins in accordance with the guidelines of this article, too?

From your perspective, Tail Gunner, the article is suggesting some kind of balanced considerations for BTC investors to be taking into account?
12-01-2019 06:58 PM
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