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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1151
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
When the crash is going on it is unreal how fast the price is dropping, and don't know when it is going to stop... and on BTC e it went from 680 to 504 in a few minutes then it bounced back up... I just am to fricken slow to pull the buy trigger at the right time.
02-10-2014 06:54 AM
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pants Offline
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Post: #1152
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Someone selling bitcoin for 100USD a piece on BTC-e =]
I think this engaged the flash-crash this time.


http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments...d_on_btce/
02-10-2014 07:25 AM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1153
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Maybe it was a smooth move to pick up more coins? Or someone drunk.
02-10-2014 08:15 AM
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Maciano Offline
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Post: #1154
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Fat fingers?
02-10-2014 12:24 PM
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Post: #1155
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-10-2014 12:24 PM)Maciano Wrote:  Fat fingers?

I don't know if any of you were chomping at the bit to buy BTC during those few minutes that it was crashing, but what happened is that all of a sudden fiatleak was exploding with beeping every few seconds and guys (or bots) were making multiple large trades, and it appears that everyone was selling and no one was buying.... but it was kind of up and down between $690 and $640, then all of a sudden it went to $610. I am looking at coinbase as well BTC e b/c that is where I do most of my buys from fiat to BTC.

I click to refresh BTC e and it is at $610 and then I click again and it is at $510, and I am doing a sort of double take. It couldn't be $510, and then I click again and it is $500 or $504 or something like that. I click on coinbase and then I click back on BTC e and it is $540... I start figgiting around and trying to put my buy order into Coinbase... actually at the time, I was trying to put in my buy order, I was trying to match it with my "buy instant" limit which was $730, at the time, b/c I did NOT know if BTC prices would keep going down. That took me an additional 30 seconds of futzing, and by the time I hit buy, the BTC price was $596.

Actually in about the past day I had been complaining over and over in the troll box about Coinbase prices NOT tracking the exchanges during crashes, and for some reason, during that particular crash, Coinbase was matching the dips of the exchanges a lot better than it had been in previous days... and it was even lower than bitstamp for a while... which cause me to think something additional may have been going on regarding the seriousness of the BTC price crash.

Surely, it would be nice to have some kind of better vision about what is going to happen to BTC in order to take better advantage of these kinds of moments. Also, what happens during such a situation is the troll box is shooting out 30 message per second of sell, sell, sell and I told you so and other such messages... mixed in with other predictions... and some of them are buy, buy buy or given actual numbers to say where BTC is going in the next few minutes, hours, days, weeks or even years. Quite entertaining, if a guy could keep up with all of it.... and at the same time, NOT to forget about whether he is going to buy or sell.
02-10-2014 01:19 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1156
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
I just caught up on the articles and comments of the threads posted by TP and Pants.




(02-10-2014 06:15 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  There is a run on Mt.Gox with a possible flaw in the protocol:

http://www.coindesk.com/price-drops-mt-g...al-delays/


Many accounts of this situation is that Mt. Gox is just buying time with their various made up excuses. Surely, we may get another BTC price crash in the event that Mt. Gox comes out with the "real" news - in the event that account holders are NOT able liquidate their Mt. Gox holdings.... or if some of the account holders were to lose money b/c of some kind of Mt. Gox shenanigans, that could have deeper rippling effects through the BTC community.

Personally, I am NOT really sure how to react to these evolving events. Over the past few days, I have bought quite a bit of BTC based on my ongoing bullishness regarding BTC. Accordingly, I am thinking about holding out on further purchases for the potential of another BTC price drop and to buy again in the low 600s or upper 500s, if we get there and if I catch it.... of course, my exact course of action will depend upon how quickly the BTC prices were to move to that price range, if at all. I am kind of inclined to think that we are going to get another "crash" at some point primarily b/c of the continued uncertainty regarding what Mt. Gox is doing and whether they are going to survive as an exchange.




(02-10-2014 07:25 AM)pants Wrote:  Someone selling bitcoin for 100USD a piece on BTC-e =]
I think this engaged the flash-crash this time.


http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments...d_on_btce/



The most important questions concerning BTC prices dipping to $102 on BTC e for a very short period of time seems to revolve around how it happened and the motive for such selling off of BTC.

The facts are NOT 100% clarified - yet it seems that the weight of the evidence (and convincing speculation), so far, is that there was a large sell off of BTC. The sell off was so large 3 to 4 thousand BTC that it was able to fill most of the outstanding BTC e orders (down to the price of $102). Accordingly, guys could have made a killing had he sold and then put in an BTC order for a low ball amount.

Did any RVF guy reading this thread acquire some cheaper BTC through this large order that dropped BTC e prices to $102?



Regarding motivation for the sale of the 3 to 4 thousand BTC: Personally, I do NOT really buy any of these stories that some guy "accidentally" typed the wrong sale number. I suspect probably what happened is that someone wanted to get rid of BTC really quickly, and selling during a downward panic should have likely brought quite a bit of camouflage to be able to get rid of a lot of BTC quickly - even though it was NOT a way to maximize profits.... only maximizes getting rid of the BTC quickly and being able to include that dump in the middle of a point in which a lot of other BTC holders are also selling.


(02-10-2014 01:19 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Actually in about the past day I had been complaining over and over in the troll box about Coinbase prices NOT tracking the exchanges during crashes, and for some reason, during that particular crash, Coinbase was matching the dips of the exchanges a lot better than it had been in previous days... and it was even lower than bitstamp for a while... which cause me to think something additional may have been going on regarding the seriousness of the BTC price crash.

Regarding my previous post about my concerns and accusations about Coinbase taking advantage of us and potentially skimming some profits in opportune times, I had written a scathing e-mail to Coinbase, and then I received a response from CB. In essence I accused CB of skimming and profiting at the expense of customers who wanted to buy BTC. Their initial response to me was kind of wimpy and generic, and I re-asserted my accusations.

Thereafter, I received a more substantial response from CB. More or less, CB's explanation was that they were NOT sufficiently supplied in BTC to be able to respond to such high level increased BTC demand (based on the crisis). Accordingly, they had to make appropriate BTC pricing adjustments. It may be true that CB is suffering some growing pains.... and fine tuning their buy and sell systems in order to be able to respond to demands... and to stay within US regulations.... etc etc. Feel free to PM me, in the event you want further description regarding this kind of matter regarding Coinbase.



BTW, on another note... Maciano: Have any RVF guys asked you for BTC matching funds, yet?


El Mech: Are you in our out of BTC? or other cryptocurrencies?
02-10-2014 10:10 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1157
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Jay I bought NMC when I woke up and saw the crash at 7 am getting ready to dump it now.

Like I said lots of drama with these coins so that's just how I'm going to roll.

Seriously if you say your long term then don't watch. It's a mess that will drive you crazy. I'm sure many of the trollbox guys tried to jump out of their basement windows last night! If they were trading real currency they would ruin every government on earth in two weeks.
02-10-2014 10:19 PM
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Deepdiver Offline
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Post: #1158
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
02-10-2014 10:44 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1159
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-10-2014 10:19 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Jay I bought NMC when I woke up and saw the crash at 7 am getting ready to dump it now.

Like I said lots of drama with these coins so that's just how I'm going to roll.

Seriously if you say your long term then don't watch. It's a mess that will drive you crazy. I'm sure many of the trollbox guys tried to jump out of their basement windows last night! If they were trading real currency they would ruin every government on earth in two weeks.

I watch mostly b/c I continue to buy fairly regularly, and I am attempting to get coins as cheaply as I can time it... may give me a few extra percentage points, here and there.



(02-10-2014 10:44 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  Very interesting article:

http://www.naturalnews.com/039865_bitcoi...Adams.html

D_Diver:

I can tell that this linked article is crap, by the first couple of lines. It is inaccurate b/c it describes a BTC crash based on 30 seconds on one exchange. Even if on one exchange, BTC was down to $102 for a fraction of a second, that is NOT where BTC prices remained for the day... currently BTC prices are hovering around $700.

If the guy cannot get his basic facts correct, then how can we rely upon him to come to reasonable conclusions.

Don't get me wrong, I like Mike Adams on other topics, and I have listened to quite a few of his podcasts a couple of years ago based on some health topics. Nonetheless, he does NOT appear to know about BTC. It appears that he is just being sensationalist and out of touch with the reality of what is really going on with BTC on a broader level.

Ultimately, I do NOT have a problem with reading nay sayer accounts and predictions about the direction of BTC and/or other crypto currencies, so long as they are getting their basic facts in an accurate ballpark.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2014 11:03 PM by JayJuanGee.)
02-10-2014 11:01 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1160
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
I put the smack down on NMC yesterday. It doesn't look like much raising 60 cents but when you buy and sell thousands it adds up.
02-11-2014 09:35 AM
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strengthstudent Offline
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Post: #1161
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Majority of mainstream bitcoin articles are crap because the writers are clueless.

I am kind of pissed off at bc gox -- they are incompetent losers who don't deserve to be trading no more. Luckily I have good nerves, just too bad I bought majority of my bitcoins at 800$... and got my first mbitcoins at 100$ but didn't invest more.

Anyhow, I am bullish for bitcoin. Also, waiting for Ethereum fundraiser to start.
02-11-2014 11:55 AM
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pants Offline
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Post: #1162
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Every time Andreas Antonopoulos is interviewed he brings something new to the table I haven´t heard about before. I consider him one of the sharpest people within the crypto world. If he thinks Ethereum is a good idea, so do I. I don´t think I have the ability to judge it by myself as I am not a huge coder.



(This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 12:27 PM by pants.)
02-11-2014 12:26 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1163
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-11-2014 11:55 AM)strengthstudent Wrote:  Majority of mainstream bitcoin articles are crap because the writers are clueless.

Agreed

(02-11-2014 11:55 AM)strengthstudent Wrote:  I am kind of pissed off at bc gox -- they are incompetent losers who don't deserve to be trading no more.

This seems to be up for debate... whether Mt Gox are incompetent or corrupt... I think that there is a large amount of evidence to establish that they are incompetent... but I would NOT be totally surprised if it ends up being true that there ends up being some corruption going on as well... ... money does have this corruption luring aspect to it... and some of the Mt. Gox stories just do NOT really seem to add up.. also, we know that owners and high level people on exchanges are going to have opportunities for insider trading type practices, as well. Anyhow, I am willing for the moment to go along with the better case scenario that Mt Gox fucking up due to being in over their heads.... and failing to get competent assistance.




(02-11-2014 11:55 AM)strengthstudent Wrote:  Luckily I have good nerves, just too bad I bought majority of my bitcoins at 800$... and got my first mbitcoins at 100$ but didn't invest more.

Anyhow, I am bullish for bitcoin
. Also, waiting for Ethereum fundraiser to start.

I started in BTC at $1,200, so I bought a lot of coins between $800 and $1200; however, I have been spreading out my BTC buying over more than two months... accordingly, my current average price per BTC is $758-ish including transaction costs. I am NOT worried about the current price of BTC (in the upper $600 territory) - even though we may have a few more crashes over the coming months. It seems likely that there are going to be a few more pieces of negative news regarding BTC... including how the federal past seizures of BTC are going to affect BTC market prices. A problem with crashes is that we cannot really predict them very well ahead of time - though sometimes in this fast moving world we may have a little bit of a heads up.... but then the news changes, and the BTC market does the opposite what was anticipated.

I continue to think in terms of at least a two year-ish investment in BTC... and will play it by ear regarding the direction that I invest the money.... Surely, if there were any clear signs that the fundamentals of BTC were broken or flawed in irreversible ways or that another coin or network were picking up BTC's crypto-currency momentum, then it may be worth while to migrate my investment over to another crypto-currency or into fiat.. .. ... and maybe Ethereum will be the one.. though we all know at the moment, BTC does NOT have any real long term rivals... and any long-term investment in any of the other crypto-currencies (besides BTC) is based on speculation that one of those other crypto-currencies could replace BTC..... ....

I have mixed feelings about the multi-tude of various crypto-currency rivals (at the moment, nearly 100 alternative cryptos listed on coinmarket cap)... For a variety of reasons, these rival cryptos could help BTC and the crypto-currency market, or they could hurt it.

Also, with any risky investment, we have to be prepared for the possibility of losing all of what we have invested into it.. though as time passes, there are becoming more and more ways to liquidate crypto currencies (especially, and mostly BTC)...... .

(02-11-2014 12:26 PM)pants Wrote:  Every time Andreas Antonopoulos is interviewed he brings something new to the table I haven´t heard about before. I consider him one of the sharpest people within the crypto world. If he thinks Ethereum is a good idea, so do I. I don´t think I have the ability to judge it by myself as I am not a huge coder.

I agree with Pants that Antonopoulos has been evolving into a pretty decent and seemingly credible source for information regarding the fit of various crypto currencies into the BTC network… or even as a potential rival to BTC. Certainly, he is a BTC evangelist and bullish regarding the long-term viability of BTC as a network.. .NOT just concerning today’s or future BTC market prices.
02-11-2014 12:43 PM
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Tex Pro Offline
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Post: #1164
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
02-11-2014 01:27 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1165
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Hold on to your pants guys! You've all been Goxxed!
02-11-2014 02:08 PM
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Maciano Offline
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Post: #1166
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Apple ban, Russia ban, Gox being Gox, hackers attacking exchanges,...

I guess that sums it up. For now.
02-11-2014 02:29 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1167
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
I'm on the fence to buy something or not thoughts?
02-11-2014 02:47 PM
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strengthstudent Offline
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Post: #1168
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
The price is the lowest it has been for a long time, it could be a good time to buy except the price could drop even more in couple of days. Buying a small amount every day to every other day until the price starts going significantly up could be wise. I just bought bitcoins with 65$.
02-11-2014 02:52 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1169
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-11-2014 02:47 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I'm on the fence to buy something or not thoughts?

Sometimes I do NOT know whether you are trolling, or what...

Anyhow, back to business.... ... to attempt to respond to your question... :::

To me, it seems that there is going to be a downward trend in all BTC for a couple of days, based on the latest news and various negative pieces related to BTC.. but certainly the downward trend of BTC is NOT guaranteed....

And, you, El Mech, seem to have been presenting yourself as an "all or nothing" sort of investor, so personally, I may NOT be the right guy to make suggestions that are potentially NOT in harmony with your investment style preference(s).

As far as other currencies, maybe some other guys can recommend something..... frequently the ones listed on BTC e parallel the performance of BTC, but sometimes they are NOT quite in sync with BTC.... I mean, look at Terracoin, at the moment, nearly a 50% return over 24 hours, even though BTC is flat.. at the moment...

Overall, I would say to wait it out for a few days... and if BTC truly has another considerable crash, it would be good to buy during such crash.... otherwise, if there is some signs of uncertainty, I would suggest to spread out the investment a little bit - to put part in BTC and some other parts in various alt currencies and then wait a few days to add more...


(02-11-2014 02:52 PM)strengthstudent Wrote:  The price is the lowest it has been for a long time, it could be a good time to buy except the price could drop even more in couple of days. Buying a small amount every day to every other day until the price starts going significantly up could be wise. I just bought bitcoins with 65$.


I am beginning to like the ideas of SS.............. the only problem SS, is that El Mech claims to NOT be a little here and a little there kind of investor.... he (el Mech) suggests that he is more of a balls to the wall kind of investor. Unless, he is reconsidering his investment philosophy? Smile
02-11-2014 03:10 PM
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Maciano Offline
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Post: #1170
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
El-Mech,

As soon as this tx-malleability thingy is fixed by big exchanges & Gox gone for good, btc will quickly rally to ~1500$ or so in coming months.

So, yeah, I buy in.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 03:18 PM by Maciano.)
02-11-2014 03:12 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1171
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Well I'm all in BTC again..For now

I think it will go up 40 dollars today to about 680 or so
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 03:21 PM by el mechanico.)
02-11-2014 03:19 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1172
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-11-2014 03:19 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Well I'm all in BTC again..For now

I think it will go up 40 dollars today to about 680 or so

Welcome back... ... for the time being.... whether for a day or longer....... t

ON another note: too bad that you had NOT set a buy order two days ago at $300 or something like that... b/c all of those buy orders (above $102) were filled.
02-11-2014 03:28 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1173
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
They were not all filled who told you that? Anyway I'm going to trade alts with BTC now I just can't get the math in my head right
02-11-2014 03:31 PM
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Post: #1174
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-11-2014 03:31 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  They were not all filled who told you that?


Yesterday, I already wrote out my theory about what happened in my response to Pants, in this post.


In essence, my theory of what happened is that there was a large order for 3 to 4 thousand BTC (whether one order or a multiple of orders) that caused the buy price to quickly go down to $102. Accordingly, all of those outstanding buy orders (between $610 and $102) were fulfilled buy the massive influx of a sell order (or multiple sell orders that came in within a short period).

Let's say for example, I am a big fish (a whale), and I am selling 4k BTC on BTC e. If I want to sell all my BTC as soon as possible, and the current BTC price is $610. If I put in my sell order at that time to sell my 4K of BTC for $2 each, then the system is NOT going to sell my BTC at $2 each, the system is going to give me the best price of the highest outstanding order at the time that my order hits the BTC e system (that's how it works) and then my sell order will be filled from $610 to $2 until from highest outstanding buy order to lowest outstanding buy order. In this particular case all outstanding BTC buy orders were filled down to $102.

Surely, there is some speculation with this description of what had happened, but that is what seemed to have happened when the BTC price flash down to $102 and that flash only lasted for a short period b/c soon other buy orders were going in place to fill the price that was showing on the BTC ticker... which I was online at the time, and all the bars on BTC e went flat at that time.

Do you have another theory of what happened during that flash crash?
Do you think some dumb fuck just mis-typed one order to sell some small quantity of let's say 1 BTC for $102... If he had done that, then the sell order would have sold at $610 or whatever the current and highest outstanding buy order price was. That is how the BTC e system works in the event that a guy types a lower sell number by mistake.... it fills to the highest outstanding buy orders first.

The only reason in this case was different, in my opinion, is that some big fish was trying to get rid of a lot of BTC at once.. and he did NOT care about the price b/c he was trying to camouflage his large sell off in the heat of the moment.. that's my theory... at the moment based on the facts that I know or infer.

EDIT: By the way: Probably, for the sake of making profit, it would have been smarter for the whale to break his sale into smaller increments of 100 to 200 BTC each - but there is NO way in hell he would have been able to accomplish that very quickly and without possibly drawing some suspicion... However, during a time in which there is a lot of market activities (the crash that was already occurring), there would have been a lot of sell orders and a lot of buy orders, so this guy could quickly fulfill the order without drawing as much attention...... and there was already great price fluctuation going on a that moment.... and likely the guy valued the quickness of getting through the transaction more than the BTC price that he got for the 4000 BTC (think of someone like a person who had stolen the BTC or someone at Gox). Anyhow, there are some theories that this dump onto BTC e was an attempt to sabotage BTC - and I do NOT really buy those kinds of sabatoge theories.. NOT at the moment, anyhow... it was NOT a sabotage but a skillfully timed dump by someone who wanted to liquidate quickly... might have even been a form of laundering b/c he may have used the dollars to buy back BTC before he transferred the BTC to some other wallet and cashed out or whatever.




(02-11-2014 03:31 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Anyway I'm going to trade alts with BTC now I just can't get the math in my head right

That's one of the challenges in converting to alts....
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 04:29 PM by JayJuanGee.)
02-11-2014 03:58 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1175
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Anyone worried about BTC prices/values, yet?

First::::: As I write, we are in the lower $580s on Bitstamp, and in the upper $550s on BTC e. The current price reflects about a 10% drop on today's average prices... or maybe even close to a 15% drop on the highest BTC price of the day and about a 35% drop of the BTC price from about 10 days ago... which was in the lower $800s.

Personally, I am NOT worried yet, and I am continuing to buy... hoping that BTC prices will spring back up. Surely, there is a little bit more of a worry, if the BTC price were to stay at these levels or even go lower. The main problem that seems to always exist is that we do NOT know for sure that the BTC price is going to go lower, even during a "crash" or a "flash crash" as Pants had called it.

Second:::: Any guys watching the news...??? and the latest and greatest news is that supposedly through the devious means of a hacker, all of the Bitcoins (nearly 4474 BTC, valued at about $2.7 million) were stolen off of Silkroad 2 - though I am NOT sure whether the details are confirmed yet, though that seems to be the story of Silkroad 2's administrator.

Any thoughts, guys?
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2014 09:24 PM by JayJuanGee.)
02-13-2014 09:22 PM
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