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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #6951
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(10-20-2018 05:10 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Here are a couple of decent bitcoin bull articles about network effects, shelling points, lindy effects and digital cash - The first one from a few months ago and the second one from a few days ago.

1) On Schelling points, network effects and Lindy: Inherent properties of communication
https://medium.com/@willemvandenbergh_85...5539713315

2) The Evolution of Digital Cash
https://medium.com/@FidelityDigitalAsset...5539713315


Below is linked another decent article talking about typical growth curves and trying to suggest that a facebook model of growth has some similar talking points about what seems most likely in bitcoin (by the way suggesting that by the end of 2022 BTC price has decent statistical likelihood - at least 50% chance - to be in the $28k to $85k price arena) - which does seem to create a decent confidence level to invest in bitcoin at today's prices.


Bitcoin’s Logarithmic Growth Rates, Facebook’s S-curve, and Future Projections
https://medium.com/@Awe_andWonder/bitcoi...5539713315
10-21-2018 10:35 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #6952
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Below is a link to a nice bullish article about BTC that lists a few more than 40 reasons why bitcoin has no future (sarcastically).

https://medium.com/@joshromportl/why-bit...95980bb774
10-21-2018 10:57 PM
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ms224 Offline
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Post: #6953
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(10-21-2018 10:57 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Below is a link to a nice bullish article about BTC that lists a few more than 40 reasons why bitcoin has no future (sarcastically).

https://medium.com/@joshromportl/why-bit...95980bb774

The problem is we kinda need the normies to get us into our orange lambos.....
10-21-2018 11:54 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #6954
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(10-21-2018 11:54 PM)ms224 Wrote:  
(10-21-2018 10:57 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Below is a link to a nice bullish article about BTC that lists a few more than 40 reasons why bitcoin has no future (sarcastically).

https://medium.com/@joshromportl/why-bit...95980bb774

The problem is we kinda need the normies to get us into our orange lambos.....

I am not sure if lack of mass adoption is a problem. Of course, adoption has increased a lot since 2013 - yet there are still far below 1% of the world's population in bitcoin, so in that regard, bitcoin still represent a very small area on the adoption curve. And, there may be some normies who are into bitcoin, but a whole hell of a lot of normies who are quite uniformed about bitcoin and don't even really feel any kind of compelling desire to take some kind of stake (even assuming that a 1% stake of quasi-liquid assets could be easily accomplished - normies are not even coming close to going that far to invest any amount into bitcoin)

In other words, it seems to me that lambos of whatever color are coming whether the masses (in terms of normies) get on board or not. Those of us who are buying into bitcoin, accumulating and HODLing through these storms should not feel any need to rush our lambo (assuming that we have not yet gotten there), because it is coming.

On the other hand, if any guy only had invested $1,000 in early 2017 (and therefore he only has about 1 bitcoin in his holdings) then he is likely going to be in a bit more of a stress status, concerning when the lambo will come.

I'm ONLY quibbling with you on this "normies" point, ms224, because such point has been asserted a lot since I have been into bitcoin (since late 2013), and I believe such "need for normies" assertion was argued a lot even before I was into bitcoin....

So I have been watching the relatively slow rate of BTC adoption in my past 5 years in bitcoin, and I have really tentatively concluded that there is no real need (or desperation) for normies to come into bitcoin anywhere in the near future in order for the BTC price to continue to provide returns that are likely going to be much greater than any other asset class - especially if we are capable of having a time line that is in the next 3 years to 5 years to 10 years.

Another point of prudence is to ask "what is Lambo?" because it is likely different for each guy. I kind of feel that I already achieved much beyond Lambo with my bitcoin investment because my BTC returns have been far greater than what had been my initial expectations (even though I had also considered relatively bullish scenarios that ended up playing out a bit more bullish than expected).

Anyhow, I have a tentative sense that there is going to be a decent amount of similar upwards price potential in BTC as there has been in the past (even though nothing is guaranteed) - and there is not really any fundamentals that are showing contrarily, at least not currently from my perspective.
Yesterday 12:20 AM
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ms224 Offline
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Post: #6955
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Yes, I know about the normies I unfortunately have to interact with them on an almost daily basis.

BTC needs to be compared not to USD, but all that toilet paper they call currency in other countries. This is where adoption will really shine.
Yesterday 01:16 AM
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JackinMelbourne Offline
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Post: #6956
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(Yesterday 12:20 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I have really tentatively concluded that there is no real need (or desperation) for normies to come into bitcoin anywhere in the near future in order for the BTC price to continue to provide returns that are likely going to be much greater than any other asset class - especially if we are capable of having a time line that is in the next 3 years to 5 years to 10 years.

What makes you think this? If you're talking a huge bull run like 2017, it ONLY happened because of whales and insiders getting the media to pump it up and "normies" getting in, at stupid prices... talk about a raping Wink Game, set, match.

Without that sort of pump there is no reason for the price to go beyond the 6k zone +/- a couple grand each year.
Today 02:00 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #6957
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(Today 02:00 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  
(Yesterday 12:20 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I have really tentatively concluded that there is no real need (or desperation) for normies to come into bitcoin anywhere in the near future in order for the BTC price to continue to provide returns that are likely going to be much greater than any other asset class - especially if we are capable of having a time line that is in the next 3 years to 5 years to 10 years.

What makes you think this? If you're talking a huge bull run like 2017, it ONLY happened because of whales and insiders getting the media to pump it up and "normies" getting in, at stupid prices... talk about a raping Wink Game, set, match.

Without that sort of pump there is no reason for the price to go beyond the 6k zone +/- a couple grand each year.

Largely, I already stated my reasons in the earlier post.

Of course, technically you are correct that perhaps during late 2017 there was a decent amount of influx of new people into BTC who helped to drive the BTC price up during that particular exponential BTC price rise (that had already started in late 2015 and took almost two years to rise to its late 2017 peak with the greatest and quickest amount coming about in the last two months of that period).

That kind of influx of new people happens with any kind of price rise of any asset or investment (it is a kind of normal market dynamics) - a certain amount of folks jump on the band wagon, especially if they are able to and if the market is opened up to people jumping in.. Bitcoin and crypto is a bit more open than other kinds of investments to the influx of new people because there seems to be a lot less requirements to qualify peeps to jump in...

However, even if there were a large number people coming into bitcoin and to various other cryptos in late 2017... let's say that the number of bitcoin participants almost doubled, and it went from 20 million people to nearly 40 million and then that particular number dropped back down to 25million or 30 million people (because some of those people got discouraged). Even assuming all of that, Bitcoin is still no where near any kind of level of mass adoption because in order to even get 1% of the world's population, bitcoin would need to acquire in the 75 million plus territory of people. I don't think that there are any studies or strong evidence that bitcoin's levels are anywhere close to that 75million people level of support (and I am claiming that even that 75 million number is not a big number relatively speaking (even though it is a BIG number in absolute terms) because 75million is still only 1% of the world's population). So in that regard, Bitcoin remains no where near mass adoption or even having had experienced a great influx of people (even though it might seem that there are a lot of people that had been in bitcoin/crypto and coming into bitcoin/crypto).

Regarding your accusation of raping, that is just ridiculous and doesn't really deserve any kind of meaningful comment, except maybe to assert that you seem to be engaging in a kind of exaggeration, no? Are you worried about some poor people? Do you think that some peeps need to be saved from something? If we are talking about bitcoin specifically, then no one is getting raped by bitcoin or people who manipulate the price of bitcoin. I will concede, however, that some of the ICOs and some alt coins are scams that seem to want to ride off of the good will of bitcoin and to market themselves in various kinds of ways with disinformation and misinformation about both their ability to perform or to attempt to denigrate bitcoin (though I am not sure if such disinformation and misinformation of ICOs and alt coins, rises to the level of rape - but this thread is about bitcoin.. so I don't think that we need to get into that kind of discussion about alt coins and ICOs because that is largely off-topic, here, unless we are going to somehow bring it back to bitcoin which seems a bit much, too?).

Regarding where we are in terms of BTC price, I am not sure from where you are getting your arbitrary assertion that there is some kind of reasonable number such as $6k in which bitcoin should be or in terms of how much bitcoin can reasonable rise or whatever else you are asserting to be within reason... that is just absurd for you to proclaim that you know anything about valuation, when there are also a lot of smart people who recognize that any market can perform way beyond expectations, whether referring to how far prices can shoot up or where prices might become stable.

Maybe there is a need to zoom out and to look at some of bitcoin's price context, and in that regard, there was a BTC price rise to $1,163 in late 2013 and then BTC prices got stuck in the mid $200s for nearly a year in 2015. That sticking in the mid $200s for a large majority of 2015 might have been a bit of a price suppression that ended in an explosion perhaps, but anyhow the 2015 period of prices largely in the $200s occurred before the bull run to $19,666 and took 2 years to arrive at the most recent top with a kind of above expectation performance that bounced up from $6k territory to $19,666 and back down to $6k within about 4 months (2 months up and 2 months down).

Thereafter, BTC prices have been bouncing around in the supra $6k price territory for nearly 9 months (since early February).

Just because BTC prices are staying largely above $6k in recent months does not mean that $6k is the bottom of this particular correction or that there is any kind of significance about $6k, even though that happens to be BTC's current sticking point price, just like mid-$200s was BTC's sticking point price in 2015 - that is no longer likely to be achievable to bring BTC prices back to those 2015 prices. Anyhow, currently BTC prices may or may not go down to $3k, but it is also seeming that there are decent chances that $6k is not a bad foundation for another potential run upwards from here, which could even go another 10x or more. There is no way of really knowing where the price is going to go in the short term, but surely any guy can formulate some theories and study into the matter in order to attempt to formulate his own opinions and speculations.

Anyhow, I don't know what you are talking about exactly, when you try to assert some kind of price limit (such as $6k) on what bitcoin can or could do, because there certainly seems to be no guarantee of anything in regards to price and what people are willing to pay and perceived value that is partly based on fundamentals and partly based on both momentum and perceptions of momentum. In that regard, it remains possible that BTC price could go down from here and stay down for a while too...

I certainly don't know, yet in many of my posts, I continue to speculate that there remains decent ongoing chances for BTC prices to go UP, as well as chances to go down. UP continues to be decently possible, especially if you continue to look into and to attempt to understand various aspects of bitcoin's fundamentals and that adoption continues to NOT be very BIG in either bitcoin or crypto more broadly, so there remains a lot of potential there too, even though I also I asserted that I doubt that any mass adoption is a necessary condition precedent for the BTC price to continue to experience several more periods of exponential price growth (whether such continued exponential price growth happens or not remains to be seen).
Today 03:19 AM
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JackinMelbourne Offline
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Post: #6958
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
I somewhat disagree about adoption not being important. Non-adoption implies that it's (currently) useless and unnecessary for most people... which is true. They can not freely spend Bitcoin without first cashing out and paying fees or taxes.

Bitcoin peeps need to decide whether they own BTC for hodl investing or for use as a currency (the original purpose). I don't think it's effective as both regardless of how divisible it is... because in reality, nobody will want to spend something that has the potential to have more value in the near future. And since this has been demonstrated to happen in the past, people simply will not use it for purchasing goods or services because of FOMO on huge, greedy potential profits.

So adoption is very important. No adoption = nobody cares = no demand = no value. Basic rule of supply and demand.

Right now it's back to being a niche collectible "digital product" for hi-tech nerds and speculators. I wish it weren't but at the moment that's the way it's looking for anyone outside looking into the Bitcoin "scene".
(This post was last modified: Today 06:06 AM by JackinMelbourne.)
Today 05:57 AM
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zoom Offline
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Post: #6959
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Most Bitcoin (BTC) supporters don't want adoption and they don't want people to spend Bitcoin. It's well documented.

They think of BTC as 'digital gold'. Forget what the whitepaper said.

This is why BTC news updates are boring. In contrast, BCH is gaining in adoption and the news is much more interesting.
Today 09:19 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #6960
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(Today 05:57 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  I somewhat disagree about adoption not being important. Non-adoption implies that it's (currently) useless and unnecessary for most people... which is true.

You seem to be mixing up your points here and seemingly wanting to purposefully misread what I had said (or attempting to say).

My main point about adoption is that it is not the be all end all that it is made out to be. Bitcoin has been achieving stupendous growth without even being close to high levels of adoption, so bitcoin remains in really early stages in terms of adoption.

Regarding utility, if you don't know about any reason to get into bitcoin, then don't do it. No one is forcing you. It is voluntary.


(Today 05:57 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  They can not freely spend Bitcoin without first cashing out and paying fees or taxes.

There is variance from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and I don't see why paying taxes or possibly paying taxes in the future should stop a guy from investing into something that is otherwise a good investment. The tax part can be accommodated, especially since the tax is merely on gains, and so if there are gains, then being taxed would be on the profit portion, not the principle, usually.

(Today 05:57 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  \
Bitcoin peeps need to decide whether they own BTC for hodl investing or for use as a currency (the original purpose).

Why are you trying to make this dichotomy? Are you trying to assert some Bcash talking point? Guys can chose for themselves what reason, if any, to buy into bitcoin, whether it is present or future forms of utility and whether that affects their considerations about bitcoin's present value.

(Today 05:57 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  I don't think it's effective as both regardless of how divisible it is... because in reality, nobody will want to spend something that has the potential to have more value in the near future. And since this has been demonstrated to happen in the past, people simply will not use it for purchasing goods or services because of FOMO on huge, greedy potential profits.

O.k. don't spend it then.

(Today 05:57 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  So adoption is very important. No adoption = nobody cares = no demand = no value. Basic rule of supply and demand.

No one is saying that adoption is not happening, so you seem to be attempting to create a strawman that you can attack. Part of my earlier point remains that adoption need NOT be rushed in order that bitcoin would still appreciate considerably in price.... and yes, I recognize that you are suggesting that value has to proceed price - which is a fine assumption, even though you are assuming that bitcoin does not have value because peeps are not going to want to spend it (which is a wrong assumption coming from you).

(Today 05:57 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  Right now it's back to being a niche collectible "digital product" for hi-tech nerds and speculators. I wish it weren't but at the moment that's the way it's looking for anyone outside looking into the Bitcoin "scene".

Yes, you can continue to assume that there are no use cases, and you can continue to not buy into bitcoin. Perhaps those of us investing will see you running after the BTC train during the next exponential growth period or perhaps you will wait longer until the exponential growth period that follows the next one. Good luck with your bitcoin abstinence (and that way you won't be raped... hahahahaha... at least not by bitcoin).
Today 11:01 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #6961
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(Today 09:19 AM)zoom Wrote:  Most Bitcoin (BTC) supporters don't want adoption and they don't want people to spend Bitcoin. It's well documented.

No one is stoping you from spending your bitcoins, if that is what you want to do.


(Today 09:19 AM)zoom Wrote:  They think of BTC as 'digital gold'. Forget what the whitepaper said.

Surely the whitepaper was a starting point for bitcoin. Bitcoin has evolved. You have noticed that, correct? You are disgruntled about bitcoin's current evolution (and status)?

(Today 09:19 AM)zoom Wrote:  This is why BTC news updates are boring.

Is that another way of saying that bitcoin is the grandpa of cryptos? hahahahaha Surely that sounds like an alt coin pumping talking point, no?

(Today 09:19 AM)zoom Wrote:  In contrast, BCH is gaining in adoption and the news is much more interesting.

Oh? Bcash is going to save the day? Isn't there a bcash thread somewhere to talk about these things? Oh no? You would rather post in the bitcoin thread, why? Why do we need to know about bcash? Is it related to bitcoin? Yes, it is an attack vector on bitcoin, but you want to argue that it is better for some reason? Is a pump coming with the upcoming expected bcash forkening? Is that infighting in bcash going to help bcash? supposedly, yes.

Seems like a bit of a topic that is outside of bitcoin, even though we already know that there are ways in which the happenings of various altcoins does affect the price dynamics of bitcoin in various ways.. but you seem to be bringing up bcash in order to merely make some vague bcash talking point claims in order to merely bash bitcoin and to pump bcash instead of really talking about anything bitcoin specific, right?
Today 11:11 AM
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Post: #6962
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Yes no one is stopping me from spending my bitcoins. But I find it odd that BTC leaders and developers are telling people not to spend their Bitcoins. Jimmy Song suggested using credits cards instead of paying with BTC. As you know, Bitcoin was created to be a peer to peer electronic cash system.

"Bitcoin has evolved". It seems that Bitcoin has been corrupted. The payments are no longer fast, cheap, or reliable.

JJG it appears obvious that you don't care about Bitcoin becoming a world currency and overthrowing the central banks, thus helping mankind. It seems that like many BTC maximalists, you only care about the price. This is why the BTC news is boring to me, because I find adoption to be the most exciting aspect of cryptocurrencies.
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Post: #6963
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
LOL Bcash is nothing more than a shill coin. Anyone and everyone that started in the crypto hemisphere early in the game knows without BTC there would be absolutely no alt's made, etc. BTC gave the idea and other people just made tweaks to it and made they're own pump and dump shitcoins. I got into BTC in 2013. If I would've held, one of my old wallets even at 6k now is worth over 8mil. But I did a lot of margin trading making a good 6 figures/year. I was making my third trip back to Colombia and sold off 5-6 BTC when it was starting to make the bull run in November and I ended up selling them around 6.5-7k sadly. Oh well.

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Today 12:10 PM
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Post: #6964
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(Today 12:10 PM)WomenLuvDeez Wrote:  LOL Bcash is nothing more than a shill coin.

It works as Bitcoin was intended to work. It's funny how a lot of people posting in this thread don't actually use Bitcoin on a semi-regular basis or have a wallet on their phone.

(Today 12:10 PM)WomenLuvDeez Wrote:  I got into BTC in 2013. If I would've held, one of my old wallets even at 6k now is worth over 8mil. But I did a lot of margin trading making a good 6 figures/year.

Good for you, WomenLuvDeez.
Today 12:24 PM
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Post: #6965
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(Today 12:08 PM)zoom Wrote:  "Bitcoin has evolved". It seems that Bitcoin has been corrupted. The payments are no longer fast, cheap, or reliable.

Why do all the BCashers parrot the same old lines? Is Roger so far up your ass that he speaks for you?

FAST! CHEAP! RELIABLE!

The network slows down for one week and you think it's OK to start printing money. Come on man.

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Post: #6966
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Roger Ver holds more than 50% of BitcoinCash and is looking for an opportunitiy to offload without massively dumping the price. No activity/ real transactions going on on the BCH blockchain...
Today 02:41 PM
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Post: #6967
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(Today 02:33 PM)redbeard Wrote:  
(Today 12:08 PM)zoom Wrote:  "Bitcoin has evolved". It seems that Bitcoin has been corrupted. The payments are no longer fast, cheap, or reliable.

Why do all the BCashers parrot the same old lines? Is Roger so far up your ass that he speaks for you?

FAST! CHEAP! RELIABLE!

The network slows down for one week and you think it's OK to start printing money. Come on man.

Are you saying that Bitcoin Cash transactions are not fast cheap and reliable? Is Blockstream so far up your ass that you don't care about using Bitcoin as actual money?

STORE OF VALUE! DIGITAL GOLD! LIGHTNING NETWORK IS COMING SOON!

For the record I'm not saying that Bitcoin Cash will be the best solution long-term, but for now it works great for Bitcoin's intended purpose which is a peer to peer electronic cash system.

(Today 02:41 PM)benau87 Wrote:  Roger Ver holds more than 50% of BitcoinCash

Cool story bro. You got a source for that claim or nah?
(This post was last modified: Today 03:09 PM by zoom.)
Today 03:03 PM
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Post: #6968
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(Today 12:08 PM)zoom Wrote:  Yes no one is stopping me from spending my bitcoins. But I find it odd that BTC leaders and developers are telling people not to spend their Bitcoins.

First of all BTC is decentralized, so who gives a ratt's ass about what supposed BTC "leaders" are telling people? You can do what you want, as you already seem to have conceded. If you find it useful to spend or to spend and replace or to find some kind of use case, such as international portability or money transmittal, then great. If you don't have those use cases, currently, then it does not hurt to just hang onto your bitcoins because there are ONLY so many real deal bitcoins... and if you spend them, then it is likely that you are going to have to replace them, anyhow (in the event that you want to maintain a certain level of stash of them for the future and/or for insurance purposes).


(Today 12:08 PM)zoom Wrote:  Jimmy Song suggested using credits cards instead of paying with BTC.

Actually, some places around the world, people cannot even get credit or credit cards, yet in a large number of western countries, a large amount of the population can obtain credit and credit cards, so I don't see any problem spending your bad money (soft money) before you spend your good money (hard money).

You have heard of Gresham's law, right? Part of the idea is that you spend the kind of money that devalues fastest first - and also would include the principle of paying off the kinds of debt that have the highest interest rates first.

So, in that regard, if you have a variety of options available to you, then you should be spending your money from your sources that are less likely to appreciate... bitcoin is not one of those low value assets(currencies), and so in that regard, it makes sense to not spend it first.

Personally, I have largely subscribed to the practice of replacing any bitcoin that I spend within a very short period of spending them (to the extent that I spend them). Since I have been in bitcoin for nearly 5 years, I also have a few other dynamics going on, which is a stacking of money on both sides in order that I buy bitcoin if the BTC price goes down and selling bitcoin if the BTC price goes up. However, at the same time, I consider that I over-invest a bit in bitcoin which makes it a lot easier for me to NOT feel bad if I am selling incremental portions of my BTC stash as the BTC price goes up... which selling of BTC is NOT as easily accomplished (or as psychologically comfortable) when guys are in their BTC accumulation phases (and several RVF guys have expressed similar feelings that they are very reluctant to sell any BTC until they have established a certain level of a BTC position that is comfortable for them - and it could take a few years to establish such a situation, depending on the guy's circumstances, such as other investments, cash flow, timeline, risk tolerance, view of bitcoin and maybe some other factors particular to the guy).

(Today 12:08 PM)zoom Wrote:  As you know, Bitcoin was created to be a peer to peer electronic cash system.

So what? Your assertion just sounds like a bcash talking point.

bitcoin is going to be used for whatever it evolves into being used for.

Of course, there are practical ways in which guys can establish peer to peer transfers and even transferring from himself and to himself (one wallet to another), and no one can do anything about it.

In essence, bitcoin can already be used in this regard, so I hardly understand your point, except to throw out some lame bcash talking point to assert that bcash is being developed or focused in a way that is better than bitcoin in terms of the "original vision", which is hardly even true. Who the fuck wants bcash? It does not have network effects, except the extent to which it is leaching off bitcoin and attempts to trick people into either thinking that bcash is more valuable than bitcoin, that it is NOT a scam, that it is the real bitcoin, and other phoney baloney propaganda by a small group of folks who control it and others who are investing because they are looking at unit value and thinking that bcash might be able to pump greater than bitcoin because it has a lower unit value (which does not mean a lot if the fundamentals regarding network effects are not there).


(Today 12:08 PM)zoom Wrote:  "Bitcoin has evolved". It seems that Bitcoin has been corrupted. The payments are no longer fast, cheap, or reliable.

Sounds like another bcash talking point(s).

It is a bit unclear about what you are talking about, and maybe an explanation would be helpful here, if you want to better make your point(s).

I will make a quickie guess response regarding these points, but maybe you should either clarify or provide evidence to the extent that you are NOT just getting into the weeds of propaganda regarding talking points.

1) Bitcoin has evolved: Yes. Bitcoin continues to evolve, and major evolutions has to do with the implementation of segwit in August 2017 and various aspects built upon it since then and continued to be built... including lightning network, liquid, and surely there are a lot of other interesting ongoing developments and testing by a diverse group of folks working on bitcoin.

2) Bitcoin corrupted: Are you suggesting that development of bitcoin is controlled by blockstream? I don't think that is a very substantiated claim, and there has been a certain amount of discussion and argument recently that users control bitcoin rather than developers, so it remains a bit unclear about how bitcoin is supposedly "corrupted." The fact of the matter seems to be that even if there are some folks and entities that are more powerful in bitcoin than in other places, bitcoin remains the most decentralized system of value that has ever been created, so it is still to be determined how all of this is going to play out, even with various copy cat attempts and various ongoing attacks onto bitcoin. In the end, we have seen bitcoin overcome a large variety and number of attacks in terms of proliferation of altcoins proclaiming to be able to usurp BTC as BTC 2.0, spam attacks, hard forks and negative propaganda, and it seems that some of the attacks have been stronger, yet bitcoin has continued to show a certain level of resilience over these attacks.

It seems that the upcoming "stable coins" might attempt to serve as another attack vector to denigrate bitcoin and to attempt to attract value away from bitcoin, so it could take a while for the various attacks against bitcoin to play out, and even though some folks (including you, apparently) seem to want to proclaim that bitcoin is corrupt, it still seems to be the most decentralized value system that has ever been created and been able to continue to persist.... let's see how it goes and continues to go, right?

3) BTC payments are no longer fast, cheap, or reliable: There have been ongoing proclamations like this that do not seem to be supported by actual facts. Many of us in BTC likely recall quite a few spam attacks that were carried out against BTC in 2016 and in 2017 that culminated in about a two month long spam attack in December 2017 and January 2018, and those kinds of spam attacks seemed to had been facilitated in order to attempt to create a factual basis to the narrative that bitcoin is broken in terms of speed and prices of BTC transactions. However, after the spam attack stopped in January 2018, the BTC mempool had pretty much been cleaned up, and BTC transaction fees and speeds returned to very low fees and fast speeds - as had generally been the case during periods in which the BTC network was not being spam attacked.

Of course, there is some truth to any proclamation that bitcoin needs to attempt to make itself more resilient to spam attacks, and it seems to me that there continue to be ongoing developments in that direction with complements of both onchain and second layer solutions, which included the implementation of segwit and also some second layer developments that include lightning network, liquid, and likely more to come even while currently decent options are being ongoingly developed and tested.

So, if you really have some evidence of recent issues involving high fees, slowness and/or unreliability, then that might be helpful to present that evidence beyond just mere assertions of such to exist (when it does not seem to be the case).

(Today 12:08 PM)zoom Wrote:  JJG it appears obvious that you don't care about Bitcoin becoming a world currency and overthrowing the central banks, thus helping mankind.

First of all, what does it matter what I want? I am just a guy posting about bitcoin on a regular basis. I doubt that I am attempting to impose any of my views on anyone. I perceive myself as just attempting to provide information in order that guys can decide or do whatever they want in regards to the whether or the extent to which they take a position in bitcoin.

Second: It seems to me that bitcoin is quite likely to make its way towards becoming a world dominant currency (or asset class) whether I like it or not because bitcoin seems to remain as the most sound of any money or any asset class. I don't see how you can rush something to be or become something more than it already is, and actually attempting to rush things is likely to break it.

If you believe that bitcoin needs to be more of something or another or that bitcoin needs to change in some kind of way in order to compete with credit cards.. blah blah blah... then you seem to be missing the point. Bitcoin's difficulties in changing and the incentives within it that cause HODLers NOT to want to spend bitcoin remains more of a feature rather than a bug.. so your seeming ongoing suggestions that bitcoin is broken in some kind of way seems to miss the point. Sound money and hard money to the degree of bitcoin has never been seen before, and complaining about how hard bitcoin is or that it needs to change would likely take away from some of its hardness and soundness rather than causing bitcoin to make progress towards "world dominance" as you seem to be saying that you want - and would not come quickly in any kind of scenario and biticoin like it is remains the most ready and able to accomplish such world dominance with the passage of time and just stying on the current path rather than making some kind of change that you (and also deluded bcashers) continue to imply and argue is supposedly necessary.

By the way, there is no fucking way that Bcash is going to be the "hard money" that achieves such objectives or is able to compete in any kind of meaningful way to bitcoin. If you continue to think that bcash is the one, then go invest in that crap.

(Today 12:08 PM)zoom Wrote:  It seems that like many BTC maximalists, you only care about the price.

First of all, you are labelling me as a BTC maximalist in order to categorize me and to generalize about positions that I might take, and further, you are falsely trying to attribute some kind of narrow view about my position regarding price as compared with others. Makes little sense to me.

Doesn't everyone care about price, and to suggest that all that matters is price, seems to be creating some kind of strawman argument. So in the end, I hardly know what you are talking about, with these accusations.



(Today 12:08 PM)zoom Wrote:  This is why the BTC news is boring to me, because I find adoption to be the most exciting aspect of cryptocurrencies.

Again, you seem to be misconstruing what I said about adoption. Adoption takes a long fucking time, so how is adoption going to be rushed? Bcashers and bitcoin attackers want to suggest that bitcoin needs to become a payment system right away in order to attract adoption quickly, and these kinds of claims just seem to evolve into nonsense contradictions because for bitcoin to attempt to move in that direction would likely have way more costs than it does benefits.

And the fact of the matter remains that nothing is broken with bitcoin, so getting distracted into attempts at rushing the closest thing to perfection remains lost upon me. There are no alt coins that are even close to bitcoin, even thought there are a lot of them that proclaim that bitcoin is broken or that they are better than bitcoin and blah blah blah, they are merely vapour ware snake oil salesmen that proclaim much more than they can deliver, so hopefully NOT too many guys are getting distracted by such ongoing non substantiated proclamations that continue to imply and argue that bitcoin is broken.
Today 04:35 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(Today 12:10 PM)WomenLuvDeez Wrote:  LOL Bcash is nothing more than a shill coin. Anyone and everyone that started in the crypto hemisphere early in the game knows without BTC there would be absolutely no alt's made, etc. BTC gave the idea and other people just made tweaks to it and made they're own pump and dump shitcoins. I got into BTC in 2013. If I would've held, one of my old wallets even at 6k now is worth over 8mil. But I did a lot of margin trading making a good 6 figures/year. I was making my third trip back to Colombia and sold off 5-6 BTC when it was starting to make the bull run in November and I ended up selling them around 6.5-7k sadly. Oh well.

Lots of people make mistakes along the way with their investments in bitcoin, including selling too many too soon.

Hopefully you are able to make more modest and long term investing strategies in regards to bitcoin.
Today 04:38 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(Today 02:41 PM)benau87 Wrote:  Roger Ver holds more than 50% of BitcoinCash and is looking for an opportunitiy to offload without massively dumping the price. No activity/ real transactions going on on the BCH blockchain...

I doubt that Roger Ver holds that much Bcash. You could be mixing Roger Ver up with Bitmain - because it appears that Bitmain holds a lot of bcash.

There are also a decent amount of long term bitcoin holders that never claimed their forked bcash, so even though your overall point is likely correct about the distribution of bcash being in a lot fewer hands than bitcoin, it is likely difficult to characterize with any kind of precision regarding who holds what amounts of bcash.
Today 04:42 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
By the way, it appears that "stable coins" are likely going to be serving as one of the many next attempts to attack bitcoin. The below tweet describes one of the terms and conditions of Circle's stable coin, which involves maintaining "blacklist" bitcoin addresses.

https://twitter.com/econoar/status/10547...15040?s=21

[Image: DqNZkykUUAATHml.jpg]
Today 05:20 PM
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