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The NBA Thread
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InternationPlayboy Offline
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Post: #176
RE: The NBA Thread
(04-11-2013 07:36 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  @InternationPlayboy: Kobe is great but I don't know about him being #2 after Jordan. Too many other great players. Only time will tell.

Who would be #2 then?
04-11-2013 07:38 PM
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TheSlayer Offline
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Post: #177
RE: The NBA Thread
(04-11-2013 07:38 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 07:36 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  @InternationPlayboy: Kobe is great but I don't know about him being #2 after Jordan. Too many other great players. Only time will tell.

Who would be #2 then?

I don't know. I don't have a fixed top 5 or top 10 of all time. But I can tell that Kobe wouldn't be #2 of all time.

In no order, players I generally think of as top 10: MJ, Magic, Bill Russell, Larry, Kareem, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Jerry West, and Shaq.

If LeBron wins another title or two he will go right on that list (will be difficult to see who gets bumped off)

But I will say I am sure most people wouldn't place Kobe right at #2.
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2013 07:47 PM by TheSlayer.)
04-11-2013 07:46 PM
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Post: #178
RE: The NBA Thread
(04-11-2013 07:46 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  But I will say I am sure most people wouldn't place Kobe right at #2.

Your top 10 list is good. But I would be willing to bet that more people would put Kobe as #2 before any other player. I definitely hear Kobe as being #2 a lot. All the other opinions are a mix of players, but I hear Kobe way more frequently than anybody else.
04-11-2013 08:01 PM
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Post: #179
RE: The NBA Thread
Yikes Kobe assumed to have torn achilles, talk about bad timing.
04-13-2013 12:50 AM
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Post: #180
RE: The NBA Thread
(04-13-2013 12:50 AM)iWin Wrote:  Yikes Kobe assumed to have torn achilles, talk about bad timing.

Not just this season, but what about next? I can't imagine Dwight resigning if Kobe misses a season - or most of one season - and makes a comeback at 35.

Even if he is ready to come back to start season, would he be back to old Kobe? Suggs ruptured his Achilles and came back after 5 months - but he was far from old self.
04-13-2013 12:55 AM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #181
RE: The NBA Thread
(04-11-2013 07:46 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  I don't know. I don't have a fixed top 5 or top 10 of all time. But I can tell that Kobe wouldn't be #2 of all time.

In no order, players I generally think of as top 10: MJ, Magic, Bill Russell, Larry, Kareem, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Jerry West, and Shaq.

If LeBron wins another title or two he will go right on that list (will be difficult to see who gets bumped off)

But I will say I am sure most people wouldn't place Kobe right at #2.


If you can't put Kobe at number two, who do you put at number two and why do you let others opinion decide that for you? Who are most people?

Kobe is one of the greatest individual players of all time in American basketball and combine that with his five championships, that makes it difficult to rank others ahead of him.

How can you rank Jerry West, Kareem and Larry ahead of Kobe? On what basis?

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04-13-2013 12:57 AM
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Post: #182
RE: The NBA Thread
can I put money somewhere on the Lakers drafting Andrew Wiggins next year?
04-13-2013 12:59 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(04-13-2013 12:57 AM)Moma Wrote:  If you can't put Kobe at number two, who do you put at number two and why do you let others opinion decide that for you? Who are most people?

Kobe is one of the greatest individual players of all time in American basketball and combine that with his five championships, that makes it difficult to rank others ahead of him.

How can you rank Jerry West, Kareem and Larry ahead of Kobe? On what basis?

Who said I was letting others decide my opinion for me? I repeatedly said I don't believe Kobe is #2 of all-time. Most people refers to friends and people with whom I discuss the NBA and other NBA analysts and journalists that I read.

Of course Kobe is one of all-time greats. Being placed in top 10 of all time means that you are an all-time great. However. that being said, the top 10 list is a little arbitrary since you can rank players based on their individuals stats, their overall game play, their overall impact and dominance of the game, number of championships and many other factors. If your argument is just championships then we must look at Kareem, Magic, and Bill Russell as ahead of Kobe (I am not saying they are just making a point).

I never ranked Jerry West, Kareem, and Larry ahead of Kobe. I specifically said "in no order". Read my post again.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2013 01:19 AM by TheSlayer.)
04-13-2013 01:17 AM
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Post: #184
RE: The NBA Thread
It's a shame Kobe's season is likely done. Didn't Chauncey Billups suffer from the same injury last season? He still isn't the same. At 34, I don't know how fast he can come back and when he comes back what kind of a player will he be? This also guarantees either the Lakers missing the playoffs or definitely getting beat in the first round. Also, what does this mean for Dwight Howard's future with the Lakers? Which direction do the Lakers go in given they have almost $30 million tied up with Kobe next season? Is D'Antoni certainly gone?

At this point, Kobe is the Lakers. Will be interesting to see what happens this off-season.
04-13-2013 01:28 AM
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Post: #185
RE: The NBA Thread
Lakers are in a tough tough spot. If its is torn, Lakers shiuld amnesty him. Pay him the 30M and get that off the books. Why have him sit on the bench for the whole year and collect money. Kobe himself should retire if its torn. This might be his greatest season, go out on top. I cant see Kobe doing like Vince, McGrady, and A.I. A.I couldnt handle being second fiddle or coming off the bench.

Kobe should buy a Chinese team and play for them. Dominate China and make all sorts of bread. I don't know why players sleep on China.

Of course the Lakers have to be loyal. The stupid Buss kids might want to get rid of him but Mitch wouldnt let that happen. With Kobe gone, Dwight will probably resign knowing that LA is his time now. Nash will be primary ball handler, and we will have a huge hole at the 2/3 position. MD was a stupid decision as coach. Altough they didnt get a training camp together, you know he is the wrong coach. They should have waited for Phil and life would be great. I dont see them firing him. They still have to pay Mike Brown and MD has two more years left, plus who would they hire who can handle the LA heat? The Van Gundys? Jerry Sloan? Doc Rivers? Unless its Phil then any coach would wilt.

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04-13-2013 03:15 AM
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Post: #186
RE: The NBA Thread
Looks like an Achilles tear. A player like Kobe you never want to see go out like that. As a Celtics fan, Kobe has been nothing short of a worthwhile opponent - easily. Both of our teams have been ravaged by injuries. I will never forget the Finals in 08 and 10 between our teams.
04-13-2013 04:56 AM
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Post: #187
RE: The NBA Thread
(04-13-2013 01:17 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Who said I was letting others decide my opinion for me? I repeatedly said I don't believe Kobe is #2 of all-time. Most people refers to friends and people with whom I discuss the NBA and other NBA analysts and journalists that I read.

Of course Kobe is one of all-time greats. Being placed in top 10 of all time means that you are an all-time great. However. that being said, the top 10 list is a little arbitrary since you can rank players based on their individuals stats, their overall game play, their overall impact and dominance of the game, number of championships and many other factors. If your argument is just championships then we must look at Kareem, Magic, and Bill Russell as ahead of Kobe (I am not saying they are just making a point).

I never ranked Jerry West, Kareem, and Larry ahead of Kobe. I specifically said "in no order". Read my post again.

Who do you rank ahead of Kobe for number two and why? You said you don't believe he is number 2 but I am interested to know who you place ahead of him AND why That is my question.

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04-13-2013 08:40 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Should be a competitive playoffs in the West, though I don't think anyone is touching Miami. I think it will be Heat/Spurs, with Heat in 5 or 6

Will be interesting to see when Kobe will fully be able to rehab

This will be a trying week for me as a NBA fan and Sacramento resident, as the Board of Governors will be deciding my teams fate. Essentially the city is doing everything in its power to keep its team (arena partnership, exorbitant bid from new ownership) but might not because a wealthy ownership group wants to take our team to Seattle. If that happens, obviously I will be done for the NBA for a bit (probably ever, heh), although unfortunately I have to remember this is business and not personal (tough for fans)
04-13-2013 02:39 PM
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Post: #189
RE: The NBA Thread
(04-13-2013 08:40 AM)Moma Wrote:  
(04-13-2013 01:17 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Who said I was letting others decide my opinion for me? I repeatedly said I don't believe Kobe is #2 of all-time. Most people refers to friends and people with whom I discuss the NBA and other NBA analysts and journalists that I read.

Of course Kobe is one of all-time greats. Being placed in top 10 of all time means that you are an all-time great. However. that being said, the top 10 list is a little arbitrary since you can rank players based on their individuals stats, their overall game play, their overall impact and dominance of the game, number of championships and many other factors. If your argument is just championships then we must look at Kareem, Magic, and Bill Russell as ahead of Kobe (I am not saying they are just making a point).

I never ranked Jerry West, Kareem, and Larry ahead of Kobe. I specifically said "in no order". Read my post again.

Who do you rank ahead of Kobe for number two and why? You said you don't believe he is number 2 but I am interested to know who you place ahead of him AND why That is my question.

Kobe isn't top 5 for a pletheora of reasons:
  1. Getting owned by the Celts during game 7, lucky for him Pau saved the Lakers that series
  2. Playing second fiddle to Shaq on their championship runs
  3. His primes #'s arent better than anyone in the top 5 much less guys like Barkley, Dr.J,David Robinson, Karl Malone etc.
  4. 1 MVP 'nuff said
  5. Low FG percentage relative to his era guys like Bird were shooting 50% from the field, 40% from the 3 point line, and 90% from the line
  6. Overall dominance just isn't there, his calling card is 30 K points and incredible longevity
  7. Although not his fault a lack of a significant rival for his best years also hurts him IMO
04-13-2013 03:18 PM
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Post: #190
RE: The NBA Thread
(04-13-2013 12:55 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  
(04-13-2013 12:50 AM)iWin Wrote:  Yikes Kobe assumed to have torn achilles, talk about bad timing.

Not just this season, but what about next? I can't imagine Dwight resigning if Kobe misses a season - or most of one season - and makes a comeback at 35.

Even if he is ready to come back to start season, would he be back to old Kobe? Suggs ruptured his Achilles and came back after 5 months - but he was far from old self.

Very true, but if theres a guy that can do it in this league its definitely Kobe. He's got a maniacal work ethic and determination.
04-13-2013 03:24 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
What a bummer about Kobe. He really started stepping it up along with the rest of the team towards the end of the season, and now we lose our star player.
04-13-2013 04:16 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(04-11-2013 07:36 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  @Gio, agree with everything you said but two things. I am pretty sure technically the NBA is a not for profit organization. The teams are registered businesses.

Interesting. Maybe they make their money in advertising..?

(04-11-2013 07:36 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Secondly, Kobe has been impressive this season and I am not a Kobe fan either but I do wonder how long can he play these 48 minute games at age 34?

You called it.

He was overworked. His body gave out.

(04-11-2013 07:38 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  Who would be #2 then?

After Micheal..It really should be like 2a., 2b., 2c., 3a., 3b., 3c., etc.

Kareem, Wilt, Russell,

Magic, Bird, Shaq, (Lebron)

Oscar, Kobe, Duncan,

Hakeem, Dr. J, Isiah/Stockton,

???

It's impossible! On any given night, any of those guys could be #2, #3, #4, #5..

Who ever was playing better ~

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Kobe will be back. If anyone can do it it's him. He might have to miss all of next season but he will come back at age 35 or 36. He is crazy like that. He will play til he is 40 just like Jordan, Stockton, and Nash. He will now start to post up more like Micheal did late in his career. He is a great jump shooter so that will extend his career. He will average 20+ points again. His mind is too powerful.

Looking forward to Bulls-Heat in the morning.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2013 01:35 AM by Giovonny.)
04-14-2013 01:32 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
The Lakers aren't going to amnesty Kobe as doing that would throw next year away. Shaq just said on NBA TV he anticipates Kobe to be back in 4-6 months. Even if he's back in 7 of 8 months (which is what the analysts are guessing), that's still in the first month of next season. Assuming D'Antoni is gone and they bring back Phil, they'll be back as one of the top 3 contenders next season.
04-14-2013 01:42 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(04-14-2013 01:42 AM)Bolthouse Wrote:  The Lakers aren't going to amnesty Kobe as doing that would throw next year away. Shaq just said on NBA TV he anticipates Kobe to be back in 4-6 months. Even if he's back in 7 of 8 months (which is what the analysts are guessing), that's still in the first month of next season. Assuming D'Antoni is gone and they bring back Phil, they'll be back as one of the top 3 contenders next season.

You guys think Phil would accept the position given D'Antoni gets the boot (Which I really think he should)? They did Phil pretty dirty this season.
04-14-2013 01:51 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
I'm not a Lebron hater. I think he is great, will win a title this year, and deserves another MVP but I have to post this.

   

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04-14-2013 09:00 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
It's been interesting that Miami has been resting players to keep them healthy, like the Spurs, and even facing some injuries.

Really the only shot anyone has at dethroning Miami seems to be that they suffer some serious injuries. Always a possibility.

The Thunder are looking pretty nice lately. Reggie Jackson is starting to turn into a huge contributor. I'm loving their lineups with Jackson, Martin and Durant, Ibaka and Collison. Jackson can drive but is also a real playmaker. Often he does what people wish Westbrook would do, drive to draw defenders to him then dish it to someone for an open shot.

If Jackson and Ibaka are both playing well, the Thunder have a way better chance of winning. They can't do it with just Westbrook and Durant, the Heat can just shut those two down. And in last years' finals, Ibaka kinda disappeared. But they are all a little older now so you hope they can keep it together. Though Ibaka has in particular had a very up-and-down year, often dominating bad opponents but disappearing in big games. If he can score 10-15 a night (and he's been shooting really good %), he'll help immeasurably.

Martin also has had a real up and down season. Sometimes it's like he's hardly even there. Sometimes he hits 5 3s. You need everyone playing perfectly to beat Miami, and if he too can be counted on for 10-15 a night, then the Thunder become way more serious. Because still, they can't lock down Miami on defense. They really just have to shoot the lights out.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2013 10:27 AM by Sonsowey.)
04-14-2013 10:20 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(04-14-2013 01:51 AM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  
(04-14-2013 01:42 AM)Bolthouse Wrote:  The Lakers aren't going to amnesty Kobe as doing that would throw next year away. Shaq just said on NBA TV he anticipates Kobe to be back in 4-6 months. Even if he's back in 7 of 8 months (which is what the analysts are guessing), that's still in the first month of next season. Assuming D'Antoni is gone and they bring back Phil, they'll be back as one of the top 3 contenders next season.

You guys think Phil would accept the position given D'Antoni gets the boot (Which I really think he should)? They did Phil pretty dirty this season.

That will get fixed with a couple handshakes. Phil only wants to coach if he can compete for a ring, and none of the other contenders have a coach that's going anywhere. Lakers aren't firing D'antoni unless they're assured of getting Phil, and at the same time i don't see them keeping him if they don't get out of the first round.
04-14-2013 06:12 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
@Gio: Another statement of agreement. I am not sure if you ranked 2a 2b 2c as Kareem, Wilt, Russell. If you did agree with that too, except I am switching Magic with Wilt from 3 to 2.

@iWin: Agree with your assessment as well. I would put Kobe between 6-10 somewhere. Probably around 6 or 7.

By the way, that Kobe injury overshadowed the horrible officiating in the game. I think that was definitely the most horribly officiated game of this season.

I have said in this thread before that I don't believe the NBA is rigged but man that game gave the conspiracy theorists some Grade A material.

50-16 FTAs.....I usually look at the game before saying that it was poorly officiated because every team plays different styles. Physical defense, or jump shots, or somebody just going to the rim, all play a role. But I won't even say anything else....look at the shot chart from the game:


http://espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=400278909


Also, that play where Kobe tore his Achilles and got awarded two FTs was not even a foul. I watched it again, definitely not even close to being a foul:







One of the top comments sums it up:



Quote:It's funny cause they called the foul just cause kobe fell, and they retained that call even after they found out that he fell cause of an injury.

Kobe shot two FT and made them both on that play... if not for the two points from the refs on that one play, GSW @ LAL would have been at overtime.

If not for the refs the whole game, it would have easily been a 15+ point blowout for GSW


I just hope the playoffs are better officiated.
04-14-2013 08:34 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Lakers are playing great D in the Spurs game.

Can Steve Blake knock down a career high?

Gasol is 1/10, and the officials keep talking shit, but they forget he has 10 rebounds and 3 blocks. He's looking good on D, just has to step up the offense.
04-14-2013 09:39 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
HUUUUGGGGEEEEE win for the Lakers without Kobe!
04-14-2013 10:49 PM
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