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The NBA Thread
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Chewbacon Offline
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Post: #2026
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-16-2014 01:04 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  As a lifelong Spur fan, I'm ecstatic to see the team not only win but trounce in such a convincing fashion the double defending champs. They were robbed last year and winning it by annihilating the Heat this year, someway, made up for last year's heart breaking loss.

I'm convinced that the team will keep on being at the top next year and in the future due to the great organization behind it. Even if Duncan retires. I hope he continues for at least another year, if not two more seasons. His leadership and experience are invaluable.

Now regarding Lebron, I have to say I'm dissapointed by his performance. Or rather lack of thereof in the biggest stage of all, when the team needs him more than ever. In a way, to make a comparison with football/soccer, he reminds me of Zlatan. Both are supremely talented with superior athleticism which make them almost impossible to stop. However, both perform only against the minnow teams. When the team really needs him, in a key moment if a game or in a big game, he fades away and disappears. Despite their incredible talent and above average physical strength, they suffer from a weak mentality syndrome where in key moments of matches or in big games, they fade away and disappear.

For that reason, I don't put him in the same category of a Kobe for example whose trademark was to take over a game and be the Boss.

I am a lebron hater and kobe fan, but this seems like selective memory.

Lebron doesn't come up big against the best teams? But didn't he come up big in both NBA finals in 2013 and 2012? He also carried the heat during both title runs when they were facing elimination against the celtics and pacers. Not to mention 2007, when he took a D-league cavs team singlehandedly to the NBA finals and also singlehandedly came from behind against a deep pistons team in the eastern conference finals.


i'm a huge kobe fan. That being said, there are plenty of times when he has come up short, ESPECIALLY in the finals. 2004, when the lakers lost 4-1 against the pistons. 2008, when he really struggled against the Celtics defense and the lakers just completely folded. Or how about 2011, when the Lakers got swept by the mavs?
06-16-2014 07:31 AM
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JayMillz Offline
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Post: #2027
RE: The NBA Thread
Miami perspective



06-16-2014 07:38 AM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #2028
RE: The NBA Thread
Yea, as soon as the teams lose, the hating starts to come out. Let's not forget that it takes a team to win. Look at the score spread for the Spurs. Kawai Leonard, Tony, Manu..Timmy..then look at Miami.

They live and die by Lebron. The guy does a lot..they ride him like a horse. I was disappointed with Bosh. 6'11 and he lives and dies by that jump shot. Why not take it inside and cause some things to happen with that height?

Dwayne Wade is burnt out. His knees must be in agony. I respect Lebron's work ethic. The man is a machine but NO superstar in history came up big on their own.

Jordan needed help. Kobe needed help.

Compare Jordan's help (Scottie, Horace and Kerr) or (Scottie, Rodman, Harper).
Check Kobe's help (Shaq, Horry, Fox) or (Gasol, Artest).
Now check Lebron's help (Wade, Bosh).

Regardless of the hoorah, it has always been a team sport and playoffs always show this.

Regardless, I still find the Spurs to be boring and Tim Duncan plays a huge part of that.

Well done, Tim Duncan (HOF) but your game always helps me with any bouts of insomnia.

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06-16-2014 08:21 AM
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JayMillz Offline
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Post: #2029
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-16-2014 08:21 AM)Moma Wrote:  Now check Lebron's help (Wade, Bosh).

Ray Allen bailed out Lebron & company last year in game six.
06-16-2014 09:44 AM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #2030
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-16-2014 09:44 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(06-16-2014 08:21 AM)Moma Wrote:  Now check Lebron's help (Wade, Bosh).

Ray Allen bailed out Lebron & company last year in game six.

Ray Allen hit a 3 at a crucial point. Basketball is a sum of all effort. It wasn't a game of 'we start at zero' and you have 10 seconds. Whoever hits the shot wins the game.

If Miami was down by 30 and Ray Allen hit that 3, would it matter? Exacto.

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06-16-2014 10:06 AM
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ddjembe mutombo Offline
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Post: #2031
RE: The NBA Thread
I'm surprised I haven't seen much reporting on the total point differential of this series. San Antonio won this series by 70 points. That is beyond a blowout. Every finals sweep in the history of the NBA has had a closer point differential than that. That 70 points (14ppg avg) just tells you how overmatched the Heat were.

(06-15-2014 07:01 AM)Justinian Wrote:  I noticed Wade flopping a lot and not getting any calls and it may be the price he's paying for that flop where he faked being hit in the face by Ginobili. I don't think the refs appreciate being shown up by that kind of totally fake flop. Miami has benefited a lot from questionable calls from flops on their run, not something a dynasty should have to do, the refs are on to them now and it's not gonna work for them anymore against this Spurs juggernaut.
The refs aren't stupid. When they see you as a flopper then they are much less likely to call a real foul when it happens. They have to watch in real time from select angles so they usually just assume it was a flop from known perpetrators.

(06-15-2014 07:43 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  Yeah the calls are egregious. Looks like the Heat sixth man showed up finally.
That LeBron swipe on Duncan was ridiculous. He got all arm and even in replay the talking heads were saying "LeBron displaying his good hands". I see LeBron foul a lot when I watch him play, but refs really don't call it. Either, he is good at fouling, or refs just give him old school superstar status.

(06-15-2014 10:58 PM)Rotisserie Wrote:  
(06-15-2014 10:49 PM)Kish Wrote:  How could anyone make an argument that Pop is the greatest coach ever? Better then Phil Jackson?

Phil Jackson has won 6 more titles and with 2 different franchises.
Pop did more with less. You can't discount that Pop's system is more likely to work with most teams than Phil's... and THAT puts him in the conversation for GOAT.
Phil is overrated in my book. 2008-2010 is the period where I think he actually proved to be in the conversation of greatest of all time. Still a great coach, but I wouldn't consider him the absolute winner of the GOAT conversation.

(06-16-2014 12:08 AM)kosko Wrote:  This is great for the International game/hustle for the NBA. Yeah Bron might be the most popular single player, but kids will be picking up a ball in OZ now because of Patty Mills.
I liked how the international players wore their flags on stage. I hope this Spurs team and their success inspires more kids in international locations to pick up the game.
06-16-2014 10:27 AM
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samsamsam Offline
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Post: #2032
RE: The NBA Thread
I'm curious to what everyone thinks about the Spurs chances of repeating next year. They are an old team but seem to manage the minutes well.

I am not a Spurs homer, but I admire from a distance because of the humility and teamwork that team has. And the ability to find talent.

Here is a good article talking about the Kawhi Leonard trade (Article is about a year old). Pop has more emotion and compassion than comes out on TV and his awesome interviews (where he says 2 words to any question).

http://grantland.com/features/analyzing-...ce-finals/

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(This post was last modified: 06-16-2014 10:51 AM by samsamsam.)
06-16-2014 10:50 AM
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JayMillz Offline
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Post: #2033
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-16-2014 10:06 AM)Moma Wrote:  
(06-16-2014 09:44 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(06-16-2014 08:21 AM)Moma Wrote:  Now check Lebron's help (Wade, Bosh).

Ray Allen bailed out Lebron & company last year in game six.

Ray Allen hit a 3 at a crucial point.

Besides Ray, Mario, Mike Miller, Shane, etc., have given Miami crucial minutes in the past.



(This post was last modified: 06-16-2014 12:15 PM by JayMillz.)
06-16-2014 11:59 AM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #2034
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-16-2014 11:59 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(06-16-2014 10:06 AM)Moma Wrote:  
(06-16-2014 09:44 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(06-16-2014 08:21 AM)Moma Wrote:  Now check Lebron's help (Wade, Bosh).

Ray Allen bailed out Lebron & company last year in game six.

Ray Allen hit a 3 at a crucial point.

Besides Ray, Mario, Mike Miller, Shane, etc., have given Miami crucial minutes in the past.




All of them (besides Mike) were present for this year's finals. Where were they?

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06-16-2014 12:57 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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Post: #2035
RE: The NBA Thread
Phil is overrated? Lets break down the credentals:
  1. 3 sets of 3-peats 11 titles overall(most ever in any sport by any American coach)
  2. Managed by far the most egotistical, arrogant(but damned good) players of their respective eras(Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Rodman)
  3. Of all those players NONE of them had rings before Phil coached them. If it's so easy to win with Jordan why was Doug Collins fired the year after he took the bulls to the Eastern Finals? The Bulls were actually mediocre to terrible for much of Jordans time there before Phil. The '98 Lakers with Shaq, Kobe, Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, and Robert Horry actually got swept before Phil got there by the Jazz. If he's so overrated why couldn't Del Harris get it done with 4 all-stars?!
  4. Master motivator who consistently got the most out guys like Jordan and Shaq. Both of those guys infamously struggled with motivation since the game was so easy to them and they accomplished pretty much everything here was to accomplish individually and collectively
  5. Adopted thee iconic Triangle Offense from Tex Winter, in part to stop Jordan from hogging the ball since he would routinely remain dogmatic in his approach to the game. Dogging out his teammates and wanting to win on his terms only. Phil understood that Jordan's brand of hoops put butts in seats, but would ultimately hurt and detract from the team concept.
  6. Highest winning percentage ever and never had a losing season
Coaching is way more than X's and O's, its also as much about managing people, relationships, and egos, much like a director in the corner office. Why doesn't Red Auerbach get called overrated for having the best defender ever and having the luxury of bringing Hall of Famers like John Havlicek off the bench? He probably also would have broke most of the tampering rules by today's standards s well. In order to win in the NBA you need great players period and if you really study history most championship teams have at least 2 Hall of Famers or at the very least 3 or 4 all stars on their roster at a time. Players didn't in spite of Phil they won because of him, and while I don't know if he's the best ever, his resume is as good as anyones.

Quote:Besides Ray, Mario, Mike Miller, Shane, etc., have given Miami crucial minutes in the past.

Keep in mind the game is not played 1v5 everyone has to contribute in order to win. Jordan would probably be missing a championship or two without role players like Paxson and Hodges knocking down clutch shots.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2014 01:08 PM by Joga Bonito.)
06-16-2014 01:05 PM
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Rotisserie Offline
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Post: #2036
RE: The NBA Thread
^ No one is denying Phil's resume. Indeed Phil is a master motivator, and his philosophy of subjugating to the team and trusting teammates is similar to what Pop preaches. IMO, Phil is 1A, and Pop is 1B.

But you simply can't deny how absolutely dominant MJ and Shaq, in particular, were. As Djembe pointed out above, his more impressive effort was winning with Kobe, Pau, and Bynum.

The other thing I forgot to mention is Popovich has done this in the small-market, fatass churro-eating city of San Antonio. How you can convince key players over 15 years to stay in that dump, sacrifice minutes, numbers, money, and thin women just on the chance for the team glory of winning a championship every few years is absolutely mind-boggling.

Again, it starts with Duncan. We'll see if they've really hit the jackpot with Leonard... he appears to have the exact demeanor necessary to make this system work for a long time coming as well. Just a genius franchise.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2014 01:53 PM by Rotisserie.)
06-16-2014 01:48 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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Post: #2037
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-16-2014 12:57 PM)Moma Wrote:  
(06-16-2014 11:59 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(06-16-2014 10:06 AM)Moma Wrote:  
(06-16-2014 09:44 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(06-16-2014 08:21 AM)Moma Wrote:  Now check Lebron's help (Wade, Bosh).

Ray Allen bailed out Lebron & company last year in game six.

Ray Allen hit a 3 at a crucial point.

Besides Ray, Mario, Mike Miller, Shane, etc., have given Miami crucial minutes in the past.




All of them (besides Mike) were present for this year's finals. Where were they?

Yes, but they didn't perform up to expectations, particularly Mario who has had some very good playoff games in the past. The value of Miller last year also can not be minimized. It's clear that James' supporting cast gave him much less than in previous post season play.
06-16-2014 03:20 PM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #2038
RE: The NBA Thread
JayMillz, to sum it up, Michael Jordan scored 63 vs the Celtics in 86 and lost the game.

Supporting cast is needed. Lebron's supporting cast sucks.

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06-16-2014 03:28 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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Post: #2039
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-16-2014 01:48 PM)Rotisserie Wrote:  But you simply can't deny how absolutely dominant MJ and Shaq, in particular, were. As Djembe pointed out above, his more impressive effort was winning with Kobe, Pau, and Bynum.

The other thing I forgot to mention is Popovich has done this in the small-market, fatass churro-eating city of San Antonio. How you can convince key players over 15 years to stay in that dump, sacrifice minutes, numbers, money, and thin women just on the chance for the team glory of winning a championship every few years is absolutely mind-boggling.

Yeah, they were dominant, I'm just pointing out that MJ, Shaq and Kobe won nothing before Phil even though they were on very talented teams. Shaq's Orlando teams featured guys like Penny, Dennis Scott, Horace Grant, and Nick Anderson yet when they got to the Finals in 94-95, they got swept and Shaq got completely schooled by Hakeem. Shaq led the league in scoring that year as well and was second in MVP voting. I already mentioned the loaded Lakers squad that Shaq and Kobe played on in '98.

Pop is clearly on Mt.Rushmore with Riley, Phil, and Auerbach but he himself has had very dominant players like Tim in his prime, not to mention the fact that Tim and DRob averaged like 40 and 20 between them in their first championship run. TP has arguably been one of the best PGs in the game for awhile now and Manu had a case for #2 SG in the league after Kobe during his best years, so Pop hasn't exactly lacked big time talent either during any of his runs especially relative to the rest of the leagues talent at the time. With this last championship, Pop has a legitimate case for best coach ever though and he may not even be done.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2014 03:42 PM by Joga Bonito.)
06-16-2014 03:37 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #2040
RE: The NBA Thread
The Spurs were hungrier. They wanted it more.

The Spurs have a better coach. They were more prepared for this moment.

The Spurs got better since last year.

The Heat got worse. They looked tired. Four straight Finals appearances is exhausting.

The Spurs have better players. They develop their players better.

Kawhi, Boris, Danny Green, Patty Mills, Thiago, etc. played better than Norris Cole, Chalmers, Lewis, Birdman, Battier, etc.

Heat have the best player. Spurs have the best team and the best coach.

I think the Spurs are one of the best organizations in the world. Not just one of the best organizations in pro sports but one the best organizations/companys, period.

They have a chance to repeat next year.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2014 04:11 PM by Giovonny.)
06-16-2014 03:41 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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Post: #2041
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-16-2014 03:28 PM)Moma Wrote:  JayMillz, to sum it up, Michael Jordan scored 63 vs the Celtics in 86 and lost the game.

Supporting cast is needed. Lebron's supporting cast sucks.
Basketball is a team sport so by definition the better your team is the better your chances are of victory. That being said, I reject your example because there are plenty of players that scored a lot during victories. For instance, Jordan dropped 69 on Cleveland in a victory; Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 points in a victory against the Knicks. Likewise, Kobe scored 81 against Toronto and your boy Bosh in a victory.



06-16-2014 06:55 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread







06-16-2014 07:19 PM
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Chewbacon Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
^ that's what I'm saying. I bet my brother that Lebron would do an 81-point Kobe in either game 4 or 5 to save the heat from elimination. Didn't happen.
06-16-2014 07:31 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
^^^^^

Good point.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2014 08:10 PM by JayMillz.)
06-16-2014 08:05 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread


06-16-2014 09:06 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Lol @ Pat Reilly's press conference. He's using mind games to try to get Lebron to stay. Let see if Lebron got "guts" and stay, or else he's a coward! I wonder if Lebron is gonna fall for it. I think it'd be stupid if he stays with his old-as-dirt supporting cast.
06-19-2014 03:50 PM
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Post: #2047
RE: The NBA Thread
Everybody is saying that Carmelo is most likely going to Chicago and not going to join Lebron in either Miami or New York.

http://fansided.com/2014/06/20/report-ch...ny/#!1AIEQ

Carmelo most likely going to Bulls ESPN

Carmelo will probably opt out and most likely go to the Bulls.



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[Image: bulls-melo-slide-2.png]

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(This post was last modified: 06-21-2014 12:58 AM by MidWest.)
06-21-2014 12:52 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
People now seem to feel that if you shove a heap of allstars together, it equals a win.

I don't think anything of Melo joining Lebron, can the two compliment each other? Not even sure about him staying in Miami, he may want to upgrade his supporting cast. His big three now bite major tush.

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06-21-2014 01:58 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Melo and Bron playing styles clash. It's a pipe dream to think it would work as both clog the same parts of the floor. Plus Miami still has no legit option at point. Melo is only going to thrive if Lebron is dishing him the ball.... No chance. Melon needs a solid point to set him up off picks. That's when he is his best. Miami doesn't offer anything to make his game better. Plus he would have to take a massive pay cut, take a massive ego cut (he is in his prime now, why do be a rag tag in Miami when you can BEAT Miami), he can find situations just as good elsewhere. The core rumors point to Houston or Chicago. Both teams are basically just prepping the deck to unload prices to make sure they got enough cap room to land him. Plus it's good for his personal brand as a team Jordan member and he states in the East where life is just more easy.

Miami is aggressively going after Lowry. As a Raps fan that worries me but in confident Ujiri has the right words to keep Kyle here.
06-21-2014 03:24 AM
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kapitaw Offline
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Post: #2050
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-21-2014 12:52 AM)MidWest Wrote:  Everybody is saying that Carmelo is most likely going to Chicago and not going to join Lebron in either Miami or New York.

http://fansided.com/2014/06/20/report-ch...ny/#!1AIEQ

Carmelo most likely going to Bulls ESPN

Carmelo will probably opt out and most likely go to the Bulls.



Get Ready to see this picture!
[Image: bulls-melo-slide-2.png]

[Image: CarmeloBulls.jpg]



Melo will be in Red White and Black this upcoming season! Mark my words, I said it here.



PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE

[Image: wishing-girl.jpg]

That's the only move the Bulls can make this summer that can legitimately turn them into championship contenders. I don't see any team being able to beat Rose, Melo, Noah, (hopefully Taj & Jimmy) and a decent bench. I've been wanting this move to happen for over a year and this summer's Free Agency can't come soon enough.
06-21-2014 04:19 AM
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