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The NBA Thread
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CaP7 Offline
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Post: #226
RE: The NBA Thread
More random NBA thoughts.

I've now ditched 3 LTR's (over 2 months counts for me as an LTR) during the NBA playoffs. Each time I had agreed to a date that conflicted with a game. Each time I gave less than 6 hours notice that I couldn't make it and that it wasn't working for me.

Does this happen to anyone else?

Does anyone else wonder what we would all be saying about LeBron if Derrick Rose doesn't go down in the playoffs last year? Are we all talking about LeBron as a loser? Is LeBron at a greater level of beastmode this time around if he still had not gotten the ring? Are we still waiting for LeBron's killer instinct to come out?
04-17-2013 02:29 AM
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Giovonny
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Post: #227
RE: The NBA Thread
2013 Champions right here






Rose is playing in the playoffs and is going to give the Heat a run for their money and win it all.

Go BULLS!!!!
04-17-2013 06:00 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #228
RE: The NBA Thread
Kobe

I rank him somewhere between 4-7.

Wilt

Somewhere in the 3-7 range.

Wilt was the best athlete in the NBA as a 7 Footer!!! They say his body was like a combo or Shaq and Garnett. The biggest and strongest but also the most graceful. He was a world class volleyball player. He set track and field records at Kansas. He is one of the great athletes of all time.

It is also a misconception that he played against smaller players. There were plenty of big players in the 60's and 70's.

iWin already posted a list:
Quote:Walter Dukes (7'0", 220 lbs.)
Swede Halbrook (7'3, 235 lbs.)
Tom Boerwinkle (7'0", 265 lbs.)
Bob Lanier (6'11", 265 lbs.)
Darrall Imhoff (6'10", 220 lbs.)
Otto Moore (6'11", 210 lbs.)
Sam Lacey (6'10", 235 lbs.)
George Johnson (6'11", 245 lbs.)
Paul Ruffner (6'10", 230 lbs.)
Dick Cunningham (6'10", 245 lbs.)
Walt Bellamy (6'11", 225 lbs.)
Leroy Ellis (6'10", 210 lbs.)
Nate Thurmond (6'11", 235 lbs.)
Mel Counts (7'0", 235 lbs.)
Nate Bowman (6'10", 230 lbs.)
Clyde Lee (6'10", 210 lbs.)
Walt Wesley (6'11", 230 lbs.)
Henry Akin (6'10", 225 lbs.)
Hank Finkel (7'0", 240 lbs.)
Lew Alcindor aka Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (7'2", 225 lbs.)
Neal Walk (6'10", 220 lbs.)
Elmore Smith (7'0", 250 lbs.)
Jim McDaniels (6'11", 230 lbs.)
LaRue Martin (6'11", 215 lbs.)
Tom Riker (6'10", 225 lbs.)

Alot of people think the centers were more skilled and tougher back then.

Wilt played against Bill Russell! Maybe the best defensive center of all time!

Have you ever seen Bill Russell and Kevin Garnett stand next to each other? They are the same size.

Wilt would not put up the same numbers he did in those days but I think he still would be a hall of fame type player.

Sort of like a Shaq/Garnett/Howard combo.

The guys who really know are the guys who played or coached against Wilt and are still involved in the NBA. Guys like Jerry West, Rick Barry, Bill Russell, Jack Ramsey, Hubie Brown, Jim Barnett, Jerry Sloan, etc.

They guys are the ones who know. When they talk about Wilt, I listen. They all say he would be a great player today and all time they all say he
would be somewhere in the 3-10 range.

They say he is one of the best athletes to ever play in the NBA.

(04-17-2013 02:20 AM)CaP7 Wrote:  Magic dominates via passing. He gets the ball to people in position to score constantly. Most of the time he uses his size over much smaller guards to do this. Dennis Johnson was guarding him mostly, and gave up 4 inches to him.

Magic can finish on the break really well on his own. He doesn't need to pass to finish the break, he gets a lot of layups.

Magic gets a lot of rebounds by being in the right place at the right time. He is also guarding the slowest, usually weakest player on the opposing team, leaving him room to wander towards the rim to collect boards. When he does this, everyone immediately takes off on the break.

Magic can't shoot worth a damn. It's fugly. The only way he's creating his own shot is if it's a sweeping hook through the lane. When the shot clock runs down and Magic needs to throw it up...look out.

Magic can't really dribble that well head on, unless he's running the break. Basically he backs down the court and spins a lot. It's like a post move all the way down the floor.

Magic can't play any defense.

Good breakdown of Magics game. I can tell you know what you are talking about.

His game was not fundamentally beautiful. But, it was effective.

He had a unique style. Like an unathletic Lebron..?

It was not always pretty but it sure worked

(04-17-2013 02:20 AM)CaP7 Wrote:  Magic was a selfish star just like any of the others.

This is where I disagree. I think he was a hard worker and a team player.

I think he was all about the success of the team.

If he was really a selfish player, he could not have won high school championships, college championships, and NBA championships. Selfish players don't often win. Winners usually win and losers usually lose, in my experience.

(04-17-2013 02:20 AM)CaP7 Wrote:  Pat Riley writes about it in his book too,

I've never heard Pat Riley criticize Magic. Do you have a link or a page number for that book? Seriously, I want to read it.

I have only heard Pat Riley say that Magic was a winner and great leader and competitor.

I respect your opinion and I'm enjoying this discussion.

I want to ask you.. Who would you take? If you could have one point guard in NBA history? Who would be your #1 point guard.

And, lets say you can't have Lebron! Just for the sake of this discussion..

Who would you take as your #1 point guard of all time???
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2013 06:52 PM by Giovonny.)
04-17-2013 06:41 PM
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Cr33pin Offline
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Post: #229
RE: The NBA Thread
(04-17-2013 06:00 PM)MidWest Wrote:  2013 Champions right here






Rose is playing in the playoffs and is going to give the Heat a run for their money and win it all.

Go BULLS!!!!

I have seen better highlight reels from girls AAU basketball games

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04-17-2013 06:46 PM
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InternationPlayboy Offline
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Post: #230
RE: The NBA Thread
Lots of big games tonight. I was supposed to go watch the rockies play, I agreed to it a couple weeks ago and didn't realize today was a huge basketball day. Luckily the rockies game got canceled. Thank god.
04-17-2013 06:57 PM
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TheSlayer Offline
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Post: #231
RE: The NBA Thread
@MidWest: Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or if you actually believe that. Chicago isn't winning anything with or without Derrick Rose.

I am sure Miami isn't scared of Rose either.

Rose after Bulls were down 3-1 in 2011 Eastern Conf. finals:
Quote:"It's extremely hard where a 6-8 guy can easily defend you."

Even if Rose is fully healthy next year ready to go, I don't see them beating Miami. The way they are constructed, they need another scorer to take the pressure off Rose and anytime LeBron starts guarding Rose their entire offense sputters which isn't smooth to begin with. This is exactly what happened in 2011, so if they face the Bulls again now or next year I don't see the Bulls winning.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2013 08:42 PM by TheSlayer.)
04-17-2013 08:40 PM
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Post: #232
RE: The NBA Thread
(04-17-2013 01:23 AM)CaP7 Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 07:46 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 07:38 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 07:36 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  @InternationPlayboy: Kobe is great but I don't know about him being #2 after Jordan. Too many other great players. Only time will tell.

Who would be #2 then?

I don't know. I don't have a fixed top 5 or top 10 of all time. But I can tell that Kobe wouldn't be #2 of all time.

In no order, players I generally think of as top 10: MJ, Magic, Bill Russell, Larry, Kareem, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Jerry West, and Shaq.

If LeBron wins another title or two he will go right on that list (will be difficult to see who gets bumped off)

But I will say I am sure most people wouldn't place Kobe right at #2.

Why is Oscar Robertson off this list? Jerry West or the Big O?

I'd take Oscar any day of the week for this reason. After he left, the Bucks fell from a Finals loser to the Celtics, to last place in their division WITH Lew Alcinder.


Oscar is supposed to be there actually. I missed a player in the top 10 I listed. I only listed 9 players, the one I left out is Oscar. So no disagreements there.
04-17-2013 08:41 PM
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CaP7 Offline
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Post: #233
RE: The NBA Thread
Riley's book was The Winner Within, circa 1993. Chapter 2, pg 51-3. It's the description of why the 1980 Lakers were beat in the first round the following year. It wasn't "primarily" about Magic. It was primarily about Kareem, who was jealous that he didn't get the MVP over Magic in the Finals. The story ends on page 52 where Magic refuses to pass the ball to Kareem on the last shot against the Rockets, even thought the play was called for Kareem.

You're right, everything Riley says about Magic is positive. Even in this description of Magic, Riley gives him every benefit of the doubt. Magic pulls an out-of-control, spinning finger roll airball, straight to Moses Malone. Two sentences later Riley exclaims, "It wasn't his fault."

Again the common theme of "Magic can do no wrong." Page 42 in reference to Magic, "The final game of the 1980 Finals was possibly the greatest single game any pro basketball player ever had."

Later in this book or "Showtime", there's a description I remember about how Magic gradually took over the leadership role of the Lakers as Kareem aged. I'd have to find it...

Arguing that Magic is overrated is like arguing to a liberal that Clinton was overrated, and a conservative that Reagan was overrated. Very fun.

Magic and Kareem seemed eerily similar to Shaq and Kobe....on a lesser level, most likely because of less media frenzy over every little story.
04-17-2013 10:44 PM
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CaP7 Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Ok. I'll bite...sort of.

"Who would you take (excluding LeBron), all-time, for point guards. For the sake of the discussion.

Bob Cousy: I don't think it's possible to compare, due to different eras. Cousy won a ton of championships, albeit alongside some of the greatest players of the era. The game was too different. Only a few players transcend all eras (Jordan talks about this). I don't think Cousy was one of them. Magic is.

Jason Kidd: Kidd matches up to Magic really well in turns of playmaking ability, running the break, and rebounding for a guard. The thing I like about Kidd is that he's a 9-time NBA All-Defensive team! Magic has zero. Kidd transcends all eras. Kidd gets a raw deal because he played on a lot teams that lacked talent. Didn't get to show his true championship pedigree. Sort of like Oscar Robertson. Kidd was a HUGE reason Dirk Diggler has a ring. I watched Kidd come up with big shot after big shot during that entire run.

Stockton: Boring discussion. Boring career.

Oscar Robertson: I've never seen him play. C'mon...who here has? How do you get real video of the Big O? I'd love to argue for him, I don't have enough ammo.

Isaiah Thomas: Far more skilled offensively than Magic ever was. Won a championship with Indiana. Could dominate games ala Allen Iverson, but actually won championships. Great point guard.

Obviously it's a struggle to come up with a point guard better than Magic. The thing is...the best players usually are not point guards. The bar is lower. The greatest players in the game are scorers and defenders. Magic was neither. He was a big guard before big guards were common. 6'9 guys were centers and power forwards until they Magic happened. Magic was a pioneer. And a great marketer...heh.
04-17-2013 11:15 PM
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Belize King Offline
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Post: #235
RE: The NBA Thread
Its crazy that Kidd led the Nets to two finals appearances. Kidd. A point guard. Could Magic have led the Lakers to thoses Championships with a supporting cast that Kidd had? Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles and Richard Jefferson was his core. Need I say more? The East was weak in the '00's but I think what Kidd did with the Nets is still remarkable.

I would go Magic, Kidd, Big O, Stockton, Thomas.

The cycle of disrespect can start with just an appetizer.
04-18-2013 06:09 AM
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Post: #236
RE: The NBA Thread
T-Mac is back. Does T-Mack and Vince get in the hall of fame? For anybody who watch Dominique play, was he a better player than Vince and McGrady? Alot of people sleep on McGrady but from 00-05, you can say he was better than Kobe. I think Vince passed a point barrier where all players at that mark are hall of famers.

I honestly don't believe Ray Allen deserves to be one. He will get in as will Pierce. Would anybody choose an in their prime Pierce or Allen over Vince and McGrady. That being said, I believe heart is an underrated aspect in basketball and life in general. Thats what separates the four of them. Stick KG's heart in any of them and we would have a great convo.

The cycle of disrespect can start with just an appetizer.
04-18-2013 06:18 AM
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Aer Offline
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Post: #237
RE: The NBA Thread
Knicks are going to the Conf. Finals with the Heat. Oh boy that's going to be fun to watch. They have to beat the Celtics (tough matchup but Celtics aren't as good as they have been without National TV Rondo) then either the Bulls or Hawks (betting the Bulls). The Bulls would be the worst possible matchup, because they play with so much heart and put it all on the line, especially against the Knicks.

I'm actually willing to bet that the Knicks take the Heat to 7 this year. (Don't chide me) and maybe even win if Carmelo keeps playing the way he is playing.
04-18-2013 12:08 PM
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CaP7 Offline
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Post: #238
RE: The NBA Thread
HOF is a sliding scale downward. Reggie Miller made it. Therefore Ray Allen has to make it. If you put Tmac and Vince in, why not someone like Sidney Moncrief, whom I grew up watching. Pretty soon anyone that had a hyped up 3 years is in. Line has to be drawn somewhere. I personally think they should had made Reggie wait another 5 years or so.
04-18-2013 12:34 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(04-17-2013 02:20 AM)CaP7 Wrote:  Calling KDolo...

Furthering the argument that Magic is overrated and a mostly one-dimensional player...playmaker. We've also acknowledged that I don't like Magic's personality, thus creating a slight bias...

Admittedly, I haven't watched Magic play for awhile. 1992 was a long time ago. Game 3 of the 1987 Finals was on Hardwood Classics tonight on NBATV. The Clippers game was a meaningless blowout, so I got to watch on of Magic's best teams play instead. Here's what I saw.

Magic dominates via passing. He gets the ball to people in position to score constantly. Most of the time he uses his size over much smaller guards to do this. Dennis Johnson was guarding him mostly, and gave up 4 inches to him.

Magic can finish on the break really well on his own. He doesn't need to pass to finish the break, he gets a lot of layups.

Magic gets a lot of rebounds by being in the right place at the right time. He is also guarding the slowest, usually weakest player on the opposing team, leaving him room to wander towards the rim to collect boards. When he does this, everyone immediately takes off on the break.

Magic can't shoot worth a damn. It's fugly. The only way he's creating his own shot is if it's a sweeping hook through the lane. When the shot clock runs down and Magic needs to throw it up...look out.

Magic can't really dribble that well head on, unless he's running the break. Basically he backs down the court and spins a lot. It's like a post move all the way down the floor.

Magic can't play any defense. He was screened a couple of times at the top of the key and both times, wasn't quick or athletic enough to get over the screen and help prevent a wide open shot. Magic is a point guard on one side of the floor only. To say he's the best point guard ever is short sighted IMO. Best playmaker...maybe.

James Worthy, Byron Scott, and Older Kareem were all incredible basketball players. Michael Cooper was a shut-down defender. Hell, Michael Thompson was good too. A.C. Green was a great athlete. Magic had a lot of tools to use his one great skill on, which was playmaking.

LeBron does everything Magic does, but can score, defend, rebound, and dominate overall on command. Magic got L.A. LeBron got Cleveland.

One more thing. All of the "Magic's a great teammate" noise is B.S. It's just the Magic playing the role of L.A.'s media darling. The title fits because Magic's one skill, playmaking, happens to appear like it's for the benefit of others. Magic was a selfish star just like any of the others. Pat Riley writes about it in his book too, just like Phil wrote about Kobe. Anyone ever heard of the "Disease of Me?"

Yeah, that's directed primarily at Magic.

I gotta disagree completely with this analysis for one lets look at the numbers:

• NBA Finals: 5 Titles, Finals (9), Finals MVP (3)
• Playoffs: Total Points (11th), 12.35 APG (1st), Total Assists (1st), Total Steals (3rd), 30 Triple-Doubles (1st)
• Honors: All-NBA 1st Team (9), MVP (3)
• Career: 11.19 APG (1st), Total Assists (4th), SPG (15th), Total Steals (15th), 138 Triple-Doubles (2nd)
• Season Leader: APG (4), SPG (2), FT% (1)
• Season Highs: 23.9 PPG (1986-87), 9.6 RPG (1981-82), 13.1 APG (8th), 3.4 SPG (3rd)
• Notable Game Highs: 24-assist game (x2)

Now onto his game sure he wasn’t the greatest shooter, but that’s not the job of a point guard. By the end of his career he had greatly improved his three point shot shooting over 38 percent in 2 of his last three seasons. Defensively, he may not have been great individually, but that’s why you play with 5 guys. He was a good team defender and was usually in the right place at the right time. I mean, how many opposing PGs could guard Magic anyway, and it didn’t affect his winning. He was also extremely disruptively defensively which allowed the Showtime Lakers to run a lot off of turnovers.

He lead some of the greatest offenses the NBA has EVER seen His true shooting percentage which is a better indicator than raw percentages(TS% takes into account 3point, 2 point and FT shooting) is actually higher than Michael Jordan or Larry Birds. He was probably the most efficient point guard ever as well. Don’t confuse volume scoring with a guy just outright being a good or bad scorer, nobody put up 20 as efficient as Magic did. Rebounding wise, he was probably the best ever out of any backcourt player in NBA history, the numbers speak for themselves(7.2 for his career).

His versatility was off the charts as he could play all 5 positions. Hell in Game 6 of the 1980 Finals when Kareem was out he started at Center and dropped 45 points, 15 rebounds and 7 assists as a ROOKIE! You’d be hard pressed to find a more brilliant offensive player in terms of total impact save MJ and a few others. As for him being a dick, all the greats were assholes at one time or another. Hell many consider MJ a deplorable person that may have gotten his father killed. Either way it doesn't matter since a) he won b) we all have dickish moments where the worst comes out of us. Doesn't take anything away from his feats though.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2013 01:22 PM by Joga Bonito.)
04-18-2013 01:17 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
DUPE
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2013 01:21 PM by Joga Bonito.)
04-18-2013 01:17 PM
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Jules D. McMillan Offline
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Post: #241
RE: The NBA Thread
Jules' 1st Round Playoff Predictions:

Eastern Conference

(1)Heat V Bucks(8)
This is easily the most predictable series of the entire playoffs. The fact that the Bucks even made the playoffs with a measly 38-44(sub .500) record shows that the East is notoriously weak. Anything less than a 4-0 sweep by the Heat means they simply didn't play hard every game. This series should be over before it starts.

(2)Knicks V Celtics(7)
This is easily the most interesting 1st round matchup in the East. People have written the Celtics off the past 4 years and they've always responded by making deep playoff runs. They held a 3-2 lead over the Heat just last year before losing the series in 7. In short, the Celtics don't go away easily, it's very hard to beat them.

Unfortunately for them, Rajon Rondo--their best player--is out for the season and although they have players that can contribute a lot, they just don't have enough fire power to win this series. The Celtics will make a hard push, but the Knicks will ultimately win. Knicks in 6 tough games.

(3)Pacers V Hawks(6)
The most boring matchup of the entire playoffs. The Hawks have played horrible basketball over the past several weeks, and they never do anything in the playoffs anyway. Pacers in 5.

(4)Nets V Bulls(5)
Very interesting series. The Nets have very good offensive players in Deron Williams, Joe Johnson and Brook Lopez. However, the Bulls have a great--not good--great defense that will bother all three of those players. The Bulls are also a better rebounding team and they have better coaching. Assuming Joakim Noah and Taj Gibson are healthy, Bulls in 6.

Western Conference(The Wild Wild West)

(1)Thunder V Rockets(8)
Something tells me that James Harden is licking his chops to play his former team--the same team that traded him over 1 million extra dollars per year. Harden is going to light the Thunder up like a Christmas tree. The problem is, despite the Rockets being a great offensive scoring team, they play no defense and that's where they're going to fall. Thunder in 6.

(2)Spurs V Lakers(7)
As a Laker fan, this matchup pisses me off. With Kobe Bryant in the lineup, and Gasol and Howard finally playing well together, my Lakers could have taken the Spurs out in this series. The Spurs, like my Lakers, are riddled with injuries. Tony Parker's ankle isn't right and likely won't be right until next season, Ginobili is nowhere near himself, Boris Diaw is out due to back surgery, Stephen Jackson is gone. The Spurs just signed T-Mac, but who knows what he's going to contribute.

This series would have been a dream matchup for my Lakers. Unfortunately, with Kobe now out for the season and Steve Nash banged up, my Lakers simply don't have any players to put pressure on the Spurs' perimeter defense. So the Spurs will simply load their defense in the paint and take their chances with the Blake, Meeks, MWP, Jamison, etc, shooting threes. The Spurs also have a better coach. The Lakers will stretch this series to the limit, but it won't be enough. It pisses me off to say, Spurs in 7.(I hope I'm wrong)

(3)Nuggets V Warriors(6)
Two words to describe this series, "Meep Meep!" This series will be a throwback to old school 1980's basketball, with plenty of fastbreaks, high flying, long shooting and high scores. Expect the scores to be in the 110-115 range. The Warriors have great shooting and very solid inside play and they are very athletic on the perimeter. In short they want to run.

The problem is the Nuggets also have great shooting, better inside play and are even more athletic on the perimeter, which means they want to run even more! They also rebound the ball better than the Warriors do, which is where they will have a major advantage. This will be a very fun series, but assuming Kenneth Faried is healthy, Nuggets in 6.

(4)Clippers V Grizzlies(5)
Two teams with contrasting styles of play. One team is consistently on highlight reels, while the other team is an old- fashioned, halfcourt, grind-it-out team. I picked the Grizzlies to beat the Clips last year, I was wrong. How was I supposed to know the Grizzlies would blow a 27-point lead at home to the Clips and go on to blow late 4th Qrt leads in Gms 3 & 4?

Zach Randolph is healthy this year unlike last year, so I'm once again picking the Grizzlies to win. Grizzlies in 7.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2013 01:47 PM by Jules D. McMillan.)
04-18-2013 01:25 PM
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Belize King Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
I agree on everything you said except the Clippers. Spot on analysis.

The cycle of disrespect can start with just an appetizer.
04-18-2013 02:18 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Here we go boys! Playoff time!

(04-17-2013 08:40 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  LeBron starts guarding Rose

Lebron did a hell of job guarding Rose in the playoffs.

That is a great match up!

It's tough for Rose because Lebron is bigger and stronger and just as fast.

It's tough when the guy guarding you is bigger, stronger, and faster. And, just as tough, smart, and competitive.

Lebron can guard Rose. He is maybe the only guy who can guard Rose.

(04-17-2013 02:29 AM)CaP7 Wrote:  I've now ditched 3 LTR's (over 2 months counts for me as an LTR) during the NBA playoffs. Each time I had agreed to a date that conflicted with a game. Each time I gave less than 6 hours notice that I couldn't make it and that it wasn't working for me.

Does this happen to anyone else?

My entire life shuts down during NBA playoffs.

For many years, I watched every single game. I have Tivo, so I record them and watch them in about an hour with no commercials.

I pride myself in watching every game. I want to be the most knowlegable fan.

Honestly, I want to start posting on NBA forums and start writing about the NBA.

My passion in life are basketball and college girls.

I don't date during the playoffs. I only do "playoff dates". Which means that if a girl wants hang out with me, she can come over and watch games with me. Or, we can go to a sports bar or something.

Playoffs are more important then pussy. I have lost a few girls like this but I don't care.

(04-17-2013 02:29 AM)CaP7 Wrote:  Are we still waiting for LeBron's killer instinct to come out?

Yes, he is still getting better. He has not peaked yet. He is still evolving his killer instinct.

If Rose had not gotten hurt last year. I think Miami still would have beaten them.

Why? Because Lebron is bigger, faster, stronger then Rose. He can guard Rose.

(04-17-2013 10:44 PM)CaP7 Wrote:  Riley's book was The Winner Within, circa 1993. Chapter 2, pg 51-3.

Thank You.

I will look it up.

(04-17-2013 10:44 PM)CaP7 Wrote:  Arguing that Magic is overrated is like arguing to a liberal that Clinton was overrated, and a conservative that Reagan was overrated.

My opinion of Magic is not set in stone. I am open to the possibility that he is overrated. I want to her your opinion. I want to know why you think he is overrated. I just want to see the analysis and evidence.

You have provided some interesting stuff.

(04-17-2013 11:15 PM)CaP7 Wrote:  Bob Cousy

I don't feel Cousy could play today. I have talked to many older NBA fans and coaches about this. Guys who saw him play. They say that he would be an average or below average player if he played today. The guards are just so much more athletic today.

(04-17-2013 11:15 PM)CaP7 Wrote:  Jason Kidd

One of the greatest point guards of all time. Top 3-5.

What a winner. Similar to Magic but smaller.

Great player in any era.

(04-17-2013 11:15 PM)CaP7 Wrote:  Jason Kidd didn't get to show his true championship pedigree.

I feel that Kidd did prove his championship pedigree.

He won a championship with Dallas. His passing was the difference. He got the ball to Dirk in the right places every time.

His leadership and guidance was the difference for that team.

He also led New Jersey to the Finals twice.

I think everyone respects him as a championship level player.

Hall of Famer in any era.

(04-17-2013 11:15 PM)CaP7 Wrote:  Stockton

Great point guard. Top 5 all time.

His game was so simple and subtle that most people can't really appreciate it. He simply made the correct fundamental play every single time.

I could talk alot about Stockton but I won't. No one will care but me and a few guys in Utah and Washington.

Hall of Famer in any era.

Whats crazy to me is that if he would have played in the 1960's, people today would be saying that he is too small and too white to play in the NBA now. They would be wrong. Stockton looks like he could only play in the NBA in the 1950s or 1960s but we all know he could play right now.

He was that good. Looks can be deceiving sometimes.

Gary Payton said Stockton was the best point guard he ever played against.

(04-17-2013 11:15 PM)CaP7 Wrote:  Oscar Robertson: I've never seen him play. C'mon...who here has? How do you get real video of the Big O?

There is video on him. Sometimes they show them on NBATV. Old Bucks games with Kareem.

Who has seen him.?

They guys who played and coached against him:

Jerry West, Rick Barry, Bill Russell, Jack Ramsey, Hubie Brown, Jim Barnett, Jerry Sloan, Kareem, etc.

Many of these guys are or have been announcers. They talk about Oscar. They say he was a Micheal Jordan type of athlete. Bigger, stronger, and faster then any other guard. They say he was as competitive as Micheal. And, his fundamentals were flawless.

They say he would be one of the best guards in the league today.

I haven't seen him play that much but I have to trust what these guys say. They are the ones who have seen him.

I have heard Kareem and Jerry West breakdown his game. They say Oscar would be a Hall of Famer in any era.

(04-17-2013 11:15 PM)CaP7 Wrote:  Isaiah Thomas

Top 3-5 point guard of all time.

Hall of Famer in any era.

Killer.

(04-17-2013 11:15 PM)CaP7 Wrote:  Obviously it's a struggle to come up with a point guard better than Magic.

So, are you admitting that Magic is the best point guard ever???

If not, who is?

(04-18-2013 06:18 AM)TexasMade Wrote:  Does T-Mack and Vince get in the hall of fame?

I hope not. I don't think they are on that level.

But, Vince will likely get in. He is the #27 scorer of all time.

(04-18-2013 06:18 AM)TexasMade Wrote:  For anybody who watch Dominique play, was he a better player than Vince and McGrady?

I think Dominique was better then both of those guys.

Dominique played harder, competed harder, and played more defense.

It's close but I would take Dominique.

He battled Micheal, Magic, and Bird. And, he did pretty well against them.

(04-18-2013 06:18 AM)TexasMade Wrote:  I honestly don't believe Ray Allen deserves to be one.

Yeah, thats a close one. He will get in just because of all the 3 pointers.

(04-18-2013 06:18 AM)TexasMade Wrote:  Would anybody choose an in their prime Pierce or Allen over Vince and McGrady.

I would take Paul Pierce. He is a proven champion.

I don't doubt Pierces heart. He went head to head with the best of his generation and did great.

Boston loves him, so he must have heart.

(04-18-2013 12:34 PM)CaP7 Wrote:  Reggie Miller made it. Therefore Ray Allen has to make it.

Yeah, those 2 guys will make it because they were the best at one thing:

3 point shooting.

They are sort of in their own little category
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2013 02:49 PM by Giovonny.)
04-18-2013 02:44 PM
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at350zguyy Offline
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Post: #244
RE: The NBA Thread
Gio, I don't have a DVR to get to every game, but I certainly have access to Synergy Sports database, so I can watch every game without all the dead time and broken down by the type of play and the result of the play. It's amazing. The most wonderful time of the year, the playoffs are here. Win or go home!
04-18-2013 02:47 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Synergys statistical breakdowns are amazing, next season I may give in and cop it.
04-18-2013 03:59 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Please disagree with me when you think I am wrong.

I don't think that all of my OPINIONS are correct.

I like to hear what other people think. I like to debate this stuff.

Nothing personal, just talking hoops.
04-18-2013 06:44 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(04-17-2013 06:00 PM)MidWest Wrote:  2013 Champions right here






Rose is playing in the playoffs and is going to give the Heat a run for their money and win it all.

Go BULLS!!!!

Please! Even with Rose back, he hasn't played in forever. I don't see him pulling a ton of weight. The bulls will be lucky to get past the 1st round. Next year they have much better of a chance after Rose gets a bunch of practice.
04-18-2013 06:57 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Unbelievable season for Stephen Curry who is already among the best pure shooters in NBA history. This guy didn't even make the All-Star team which is a black mark on the coaches who vote for the reserves.

[Image: o-STEPHEN-CURRY-SHOT-CHART-570.jpg?6]

He just broke Ray Allen's 3 pt shooting record:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/17...02908.html
04-18-2013 10:31 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
^^^ Stephen Curry is a beast, and he's just beginning to light the NBA up. Aside from that, he's a down to earth, "family first" type of guy. Dude married his church sweetheart and has focused on basketball since day one of joining the NBA.
04-18-2013 10:40 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Does anyone else agree with me that the 1st round of the playoffs should move back to best of 5 format?

With the spread out scheduling alot of 1st round series lose steam and some are mercifully being played out when a team is up 3-0.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2013 02:12 PM by goodfella.)
04-19-2013 02:11 PM
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