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The NBA Thread
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Timoteo Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:46 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 02:40 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  Thus, the introduction of the in-game interview with coaches/managers. Most of them HATE it, but have to stand there and say a few words to some sideline Barbie that they'd prefer to be fucking. The players are forced to give mandatory media time, and are fined if they don't comply (more money for the league).

Funny thing you mention that because I find the in-game interview with the coaches pretty useless. I have talked to a few of my other friends about this and they didn't care for it either. If anything it distracts from the game because they minimize the actual play and make the interview screen bigger. There are so many times, especially in the beginning of the 4th when you miss good plays because they were asking dumb questions to a coach who would rather be in the huddle. Do you care for those interviews?

I read somewhere that all the fines collected by the league are donated to various charities. The only complaint that the article had was that the league would not reveal which charities is the money given to.

Yes, that is my understanding. The money goes in a pot for charities, which they don't publicly name. My issue with it is it's another way for the owners to dig into players' pockets. They lock out players, or opt out of labor agreements to take back money from the talent that fans pay to see. If the league/owners want to donate to charities, do it, but don't try to get the funds out of individual players' pockets.

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05-22-2013 02:54 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:53 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Once you start noticing, the amount of commercials and advertising is staggering.

Yeah, but they beat you to death with the same commercials over and over till its nauseating - Cliff Paul/Kia Optima/Durrant-Wade, etc.
05-22-2013 02:58 PM
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Chewbacon Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-21-2013 08:37 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  
(05-20-2013 10:09 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  
(05-19-2013 11:29 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  @Timoteo and @InternationPlayboy: Carmelo is a great player but he is a one-dimensional player. That will be always the problem with him. Let's get something out of the way. The Knicks as they are constructed were not going to seriously challenge Miami. When J.R. is your second best player, you are in a load of trouble.

But let's also be clear, Carmelo's performance in these playoffs was pretty extraordinary, and probably even below average. The guy scored 28.8 points per game in the playoffs with splits of 40.6/29/85. He only averaged 1.6 assists and 6.6 rebounds per game. The 40.6% shooting is dismal, no matter how you slice it.

I will say that he actually played well in the Indiana series in terms of ball movement, not being a ball hog, and being a willing passer. In the Boston series, we got to see a lot of bad Carmelo with too much holding the ball and barely passing.

Timoteo, you said the Pacers D was swarming and physical. I agree that it was but if you noticed the Pacers rarely doubled Melo. He was usually played by Paul George and shot awful against him.

The problem with Carmelo is that he is extremely one dimensional, shoots a low percentage, and does not play defense. You can build around him but the team has to be extremely complimentary to his strengths and weaknesses. On the other hand LeBron is a player around whom you can build in a variety of ways because he can do many different things very well. It may seem unfair to compare Carmelo to LeBron but they both were part of the same draft and play the same position. Hence, the comparisons will always be there.

Now onto the rest of the playoffs. I am surprised so many people are picking the Grizzlies. I am picking the Spurs in 6 or 7. One of my reasons for that is in close games my money is on Pop to outcoach Hollins. Hollins isn't going up against Del Negro and Brooks who are pretty average coaches and not known for designing good plays or making adjustments.

As a LeBron/Heat fan I think both Spurs and Grizzlies will give the HEat a run for their money but the basketball fan in me wants to see the Spurs' Big 3 vs. the Miami Big 3 (hoping Wade has a rejuvenation like he did last year in the second half of the playoffs).

@Therapsid, there's no way Dallas 2011 team beats this year's Miami team. Miami's achilles heel that year was the zone but this year Miami has many zone busters in Allen, Battier, a healthy Miller, and even LeBron who shot 40% from 3 this year. Spo is a much better coach and LeBron has definitely overcome his mental hurdles.

The problem with Carmelo is that he doesn't do anything but shoot jump shots these days. There used to be a time when Carmelo was actually somewhat athletic, driving to the hole with a combination of finesse and strength. I remember in the 09 Denver-LA WCF - he was phenomenal to watch. I became a Carmelo fan at that time. Nowadays he looks fat, out of shape, and slow/wooden when it comes to moving his legs. There are times he looks as if he can barely jump.

It may not be fair to compare melo to lebron, but there was a time early in their careers when they were probably the most promising 2 small forwards in the league. It's sad how Durant's career has already eclipsed carmelo's, when carmelo had so much more time to achieve great things.

You also have to factor in who Carmelo is playing with - either Chandler or Stoudemire is down in the post most of the time, so that's partly why Melo is largely on the perimeter. He came into this season in great shape, and led the league in scoring. You don't do that just hoisting jumpers. He rebounded well considering he's their small forward and primary scorer, and frankly, his game can't be judged on his assist numbers. He's a finisher, and his job isn't to set others up. The Pacers are a long, athletic team, so yes, you're going to struggle a little against that. He and LeBron actually don't play the same position - they never have. LeBron came into the league with the Cavs as a point guard, and even at his size, that's still his primary position though you can put him at small forward depending on who else is on the court. Melo isn't the complete player LeBron is, but few have EVER been the player that he is. The Knicks are basically in the same position they were at the time of they acquired Melo - they are going to turn over half this roster. The only old guy that you will see around next season is possibly Kenyon Martin. JR Smith may not be back, even after winning the 6th Man of the Year. They may keep Copeland as the shooter and let Novak go, being Novak is more expensive and not quite as good an athlete as Copeland (he's longer and better at getting his shot on his own). Prigioni, who was a pleasant surprise, will probably return to Italy (this year was really just an experiment, but the wife is a Spaniard, doesn't speak English, and wants to return home). Kidd may be tapped out now. Camby wasn't much help, and Rasheed Wallace already retired. Shumpert is going to summer league, so he should be back to where he was before he got hurt next season. Kurt Thomas didn't give them much either.

Yes, Carmelo has chandler and amare in the paint. But Paul george has west and hibbert in the paint, and he still drives. Kobe had shaq in the paint and he still drove; he had bynum and pau, and now pau and dwight, and he still drove. Having big men in there is not an excuse not to drive.
05-22-2013 03:57 PM
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Timoteo Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 03:57 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 08:37 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  
(05-20-2013 10:09 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  
(05-19-2013 11:29 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  @Timoteo and @InternationPlayboy: Carmelo is a great player but he is a one-dimensional player. That will be always the problem with him. Let's get something out of the way. The Knicks as they are constructed were not going to seriously challenge Miami. When J.R. is your second best player, you are in a load of trouble.

But let's also be clear, Carmelo's performance in these playoffs was pretty extraordinary, and probably even below average. The guy scored 28.8 points per game in the playoffs with splits of 40.6/29/85. He only averaged 1.6 assists and 6.6 rebounds per game. The 40.6% shooting is dismal, no matter how you slice it.

I will say that he actually played well in the Indiana series in terms of ball movement, not being a ball hog, and being a willing passer. In the Boston series, we got to see a lot of bad Carmelo with too much holding the ball and barely passing.

Timoteo, you said the Pacers D was swarming and physical. I agree that it was but if you noticed the Pacers rarely doubled Melo. He was usually played by Paul George and shot awful against him.

The problem with Carmelo is that he is extremely one dimensional, shoots a low percentage, and does not play defense. You can build around him but the team has to be extremely complimentary to his strengths and weaknesses. On the other hand LeBron is a player around whom you can build in a variety of ways because he can do many different things very well. It may seem unfair to compare Carmelo to LeBron but they both were part of the same draft and play the same position. Hence, the comparisons will always be there.

Now onto the rest of the playoffs. I am surprised so many people are picking the Grizzlies. I am picking the Spurs in 6 or 7. One of my reasons for that is in close games my money is on Pop to outcoach Hollins. Hollins isn't going up against Del Negro and Brooks who are pretty average coaches and not known for designing good plays or making adjustments.

As a LeBron/Heat fan I think both Spurs and Grizzlies will give the HEat a run for their money but the basketball fan in me wants to see the Spurs' Big 3 vs. the Miami Big 3 (hoping Wade has a rejuvenation like he did last year in the second half of the playoffs).

@Therapsid, there's no way Dallas 2011 team beats this year's Miami team. Miami's achilles heel that year was the zone but this year Miami has many zone busters in Allen, Battier, a healthy Miller, and even LeBron who shot 40% from 3 this year. Spo is a much better coach and LeBron has definitely overcome his mental hurdles.

The problem with Carmelo is that he doesn't do anything but shoot jump shots these days. There used to be a time when Carmelo was actually somewhat athletic, driving to the hole with a combination of finesse and strength. I remember in the 09 Denver-LA WCF - he was phenomenal to watch. I became a Carmelo fan at that time. Nowadays he looks fat, out of shape, and slow/wooden when it comes to moving his legs. There are times he looks as if he can barely jump.

It may not be fair to compare melo to lebron, but there was a time early in their careers when they were probably the most promising 2 small forwards in the league. It's sad how Durant's career has already eclipsed carmelo's, when carmelo had so much more time to achieve great things.

You also have to factor in who Carmelo is playing with - either Chandler or Stoudemire is down in the post most of the time, so that's partly why Melo is largely on the perimeter. He came into this season in great shape, and led the league in scoring. You don't do that just hoisting jumpers. He rebounded well considering he's their small forward and primary scorer, and frankly, his game can't be judged on his assist numbers. He's a finisher, and his job isn't to set others up. The Pacers are a long, athletic team, so yes, you're going to struggle a little against that. He and LeBron actually don't play the same position - they never have. LeBron came into the league with the Cavs as a point guard, and even at his size, that's still his primary position though you can put him at small forward depending on who else is on the court. Melo isn't the complete player LeBron is, but few have EVER been the player that he is. The Knicks are basically in the same position they were at the time of they acquired Melo - they are going to turn over half this roster. The only old guy that you will see around next season is possibly Kenyon Martin. JR Smith may not be back, even after winning the 6th Man of the Year. They may keep Copeland as the shooter and let Novak go, being Novak is more expensive and not quite as good an athlete as Copeland (he's longer and better at getting his shot on his own). Prigioni, who was a pleasant surprise, will probably return to Italy (this year was really just an experiment, but the wife is a Spaniard, doesn't speak English, and wants to return home). Kidd may be tapped out now. Camby wasn't much help, and Rasheed Wallace already retired. Shumpert is going to summer league, so he should be back to where he was before he got hurt next season. Kurt Thomas didn't give them much either.

Yes, Carmelo has chandler and amare in the paint. But Paul george has west and hibbert in the paint, and he still drives. Kobe had shaq in the paint and he still drove; he had bynum and pau, and now pau and dwight, and he still drove. Having big men in there is not an excuse not to drive.

The triangle is a motion offense, so the bigs aren't always planted in the paint. They are also in the high post. It depends on how the offense is designed. As we've stated before, the Knick offense doesn't have a lot of movement, and openings are created by motion. If you have a strictly post-up offense with your bigs, defenses can pack in which doesn't really create openings to go to the hoop.

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05-22-2013 04:39 PM
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Chewbacon Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 04:39 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 03:57 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 08:37 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  
(05-20-2013 10:09 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  
(05-19-2013 11:29 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  @Timoteo and @InternationPlayboy: Carmelo is a great player but he is a one-dimensional player. That will be always the problem with him. Let's get something out of the way. The Knicks as they are constructed were not going to seriously challenge Miami. When J.R. is your second best player, you are in a load of trouble.

But let's also be clear, Carmelo's performance in these playoffs was pretty extraordinary, and probably even below average. The guy scored 28.8 points per game in the playoffs with splits of 40.6/29/85. He only averaged 1.6 assists and 6.6 rebounds per game. The 40.6% shooting is dismal, no matter how you slice it.

I will say that he actually played well in the Indiana series in terms of ball movement, not being a ball hog, and being a willing passer. In the Boston series, we got to see a lot of bad Carmelo with too much holding the ball and barely passing.

Timoteo, you said the Pacers D was swarming and physical. I agree that it was but if you noticed the Pacers rarely doubled Melo. He was usually played by Paul George and shot awful against him.

The problem with Carmelo is that he is extremely one dimensional, shoots a low percentage, and does not play defense. You can build around him but the team has to be extremely complimentary to his strengths and weaknesses. On the other hand LeBron is a player around whom you can build in a variety of ways because he can do many different things very well. It may seem unfair to compare Carmelo to LeBron but they both were part of the same draft and play the same position. Hence, the comparisons will always be there.

Now onto the rest of the playoffs. I am surprised so many people are picking the Grizzlies. I am picking the Spurs in 6 or 7. One of my reasons for that is in close games my money is on Pop to outcoach Hollins. Hollins isn't going up against Del Negro and Brooks who are pretty average coaches and not known for designing good plays or making adjustments.

As a LeBron/Heat fan I think both Spurs and Grizzlies will give the HEat a run for their money but the basketball fan in me wants to see the Spurs' Big 3 vs. the Miami Big 3 (hoping Wade has a rejuvenation like he did last year in the second half of the playoffs).

@Therapsid, there's no way Dallas 2011 team beats this year's Miami team. Miami's achilles heel that year was the zone but this year Miami has many zone busters in Allen, Battier, a healthy Miller, and even LeBron who shot 40% from 3 this year. Spo is a much better coach and LeBron has definitely overcome his mental hurdles.

The problem with Carmelo is that he doesn't do anything but shoot jump shots these days. There used to be a time when Carmelo was actually somewhat athletic, driving to the hole with a combination of finesse and strength. I remember in the 09 Denver-LA WCF - he was phenomenal to watch. I became a Carmelo fan at that time. Nowadays he looks fat, out of shape, and slow/wooden when it comes to moving his legs. There are times he looks as if he can barely jump.

It may not be fair to compare melo to lebron, but there was a time early in their careers when they were probably the most promising 2 small forwards in the league. It's sad how Durant's career has already eclipsed carmelo's, when carmelo had so much more time to achieve great things.

You also have to factor in who Carmelo is playing with - either Chandler or Stoudemire is down in the post most of the time, so that's partly why Melo is largely on the perimeter. He came into this season in great shape, and led the league in scoring. You don't do that just hoisting jumpers. He rebounded well considering he's their small forward and primary scorer, and frankly, his game can't be judged on his assist numbers. He's a finisher, and his job isn't to set others up. The Pacers are a long, athletic team, so yes, you're going to struggle a little against that. He and LeBron actually don't play the same position - they never have. LeBron came into the league with the Cavs as a point guard, and even at his size, that's still his primary position though you can put him at small forward depending on who else is on the court. Melo isn't the complete player LeBron is, but few have EVER been the player that he is. The Knicks are basically in the same position they were at the time of they acquired Melo - they are going to turn over half this roster. The only old guy that you will see around next season is possibly Kenyon Martin. JR Smith may not be back, even after winning the 6th Man of the Year. They may keep Copeland as the shooter and let Novak go, being Novak is more expensive and not quite as good an athlete as Copeland (he's longer and better at getting his shot on his own). Prigioni, who was a pleasant surprise, will probably return to Italy (this year was really just an experiment, but the wife is a Spaniard, doesn't speak English, and wants to return home). Kidd may be tapped out now. Camby wasn't much help, and Rasheed Wallace already retired. Shumpert is going to summer league, so he should be back to where he was before he got hurt next season. Kurt Thomas didn't give them much either.

Yes, Carmelo has chandler and amare in the paint. But Paul george has west and hibbert in the paint, and he still drives. Kobe had shaq in the paint and he still drove; he had bynum and pau, and now pau and dwight, and he still drove. Having big men in there is not an excuse not to drive.

The triangle is a motion offense, so the bigs aren't always planted in the paint. They are also in the high post. It depends on how the offense is designed. As we've stated before, the Knick offense doesn't have a lot of movement, and openings are created by motion. If you have a strictly post-up offense with your bigs, defenses can pack in which doesn't really create openings to go to the hoop.

That still does not explain the pacers. And it doesn't explain the lakers this year, who have abandoned the triangle. And kobe arguably drives more now that there is no triangle. His 08-10 years were full of turn-around mid-range fadeaways.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2013 06:17 PM by Chewbacon.)
05-22-2013 06:16 PM
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Professor Fox Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Pacers are so sloppy with the ball. The Heat will destroy them if they keep up this kind of careless play.
05-22-2013 07:47 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 07:47 PM)Professor Fox Wrote:  Pacers are so sloppy with the ball. The Heat will destroy them if they keep up this kind of careless play.
The Heat shall destroy them regardless.

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05-22-2013 07:52 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 07:52 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  The Heat shall destroy them regardless.

Probably, but I was hoping for 6 or 7 games. It won't be even close if they play like that.
05-22-2013 07:57 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Heat are playing pretty sloppy to right now... Both teams should settle down and get into their grooves after tonight.

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05-22-2013 08:32 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Paul george
05-22-2013 10:24 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Chris Andersen is playing for the league minimum and is the reason the heat are even in this game
05-22-2013 10:30 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 06:16 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 04:39 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 03:57 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 08:37 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  
(05-20-2013 10:09 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  The problem with Carmelo is that he doesn't do anything but shoot jump shots these days. There used to be a time when Carmelo was actually somewhat athletic, driving to the hole with a combination of finesse and strength. I remember in the 09 Denver-LA WCF - he was phenomenal to watch. I became a Carmelo fan at that time. Nowadays he looks fat, out of shape, and slow/wooden when it comes to moving his legs. There are times he looks as if he can barely jump.

It may not be fair to compare melo to lebron, but there was a time early in their careers when they were probably the most promising 2 small forwards in the league. It's sad how Durant's career has already eclipsed carmelo's, when carmelo had so much more time to achieve great things.

You also have to factor in who Carmelo is playing with - either Chandler or Stoudemire is down in the post most of the time, so that's partly why Melo is largely on the perimeter. He came into this season in great shape, and led the league in scoring. You don't do that just hoisting jumpers. He rebounded well considering he's their small forward and primary scorer, and frankly, his game can't be judged on his assist numbers. He's a finisher, and his job isn't to set others up. The Pacers are a long, athletic team, so yes, you're going to struggle a little against that. He and LeBron actually don't play the same position - they never have. LeBron came into the league with the Cavs as a point guard, and even at his size, that's still his primary position though you can put him at small forward depending on who else is on the court. Melo isn't the complete player LeBron is, but few have EVER been the player that he is. The Knicks are basically in the same position they were at the time of they acquired Melo - they are going to turn over half this roster. The only old guy that you will see around next season is possibly Kenyon Martin. JR Smith may not be back, even after winning the 6th Man of the Year. They may keep Copeland as the shooter and let Novak go, being Novak is more expensive and not quite as good an athlete as Copeland (he's longer and better at getting his shot on his own). Prigioni, who was a pleasant surprise, will probably return to Italy (this year was really just an experiment, but the wife is a Spaniard, doesn't speak English, and wants to return home). Kidd may be tapped out now. Camby wasn't much help, and Rasheed Wallace already retired. Shumpert is going to summer league, so he should be back to where he was before he got hurt next season. Kurt Thomas didn't give them much either.

Yes, Carmelo has chandler and amare in the paint. But Paul george has west and hibbert in the paint, and he still drives. Kobe had shaq in the paint and he still drove; he had bynum and pau, and now pau and dwight, and he still drove. Having big men in there is not an excuse not to drive.

The triangle is a motion offense, so the bigs aren't always planted in the paint. They are also in the high post. It depends on how the offense is designed. As we've stated before, the Knick offense doesn't have a lot of movement, and openings are created by motion. If you have a strictly post-up offense with your bigs, defenses can pack in which doesn't really create openings to go to the hoop.

That still does not explain the pacers. And it doesn't explain the lakers this year, who have abandoned the triangle. And kobe arguably drives more now that there is no triangle. His 08-10 years were full of turn-around mid-range fadeaways.

D'Antoni's offense is also a motion offense, with some pick 'n roll. It isn't a stationary post-up offense. They still largely spread and cut, creating space. The Pacers drive and kick. They spread then attack. Their bigs set up away from the basket and face up, then roll to the basket. They don't plant themselves in the lane. They also get more transition and intermediate break baskets than the Knicks do. More often than not, the Knicks walk it up and play in the halfcourt, and rely as a team on 3s. They don't push the ball to get easy shots and put pressure on the defense.

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05-22-2013 10:33 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Why did Paul George and George Hill switch on Lebron? And why did they take out Roy Hibbert?
05-22-2013 10:45 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 10:30 PM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  Chris Andersen is playing for the league minimum and is the reason the heat are even in this game

I dont understand why he wasnt picked up. Kenyon Martin too. At least he will get paid next year. Would you want to make 3M in Miami or 5.5M in Cleveland?

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05-22-2013 10:49 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
What a finish....
HEAT

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05-22-2013 10:52 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Holy fucking shit. What a gamee. One of the best of these playoffs.

Thank you Frank Vogel for taking Hibbert out.

I had Heat winning this in 6 but I am tempted to change it to Heat in 7.
05-22-2013 10:53 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Can't believe Indiana let "the decision" make that last shot. Also questionable coaching by Indiana in sitting Big Roy in crucial situations. Indiana will probably lose the series now because you can't let games slip away at this level. Tough loss.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2013 11:00 PM by JayMillz.)
05-22-2013 10:53 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
This series is going to be like this every game. Remember, last year the Pacers led the Heat 2-1 in the series before losing in 6.

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05-22-2013 10:54 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 10:49 PM)TexasMade Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 10:30 PM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  Chris Andersen is playing for the league minimum and is the reason the heat are even in this game

I dont understand why he wasnt picked up. Kenyon Martin too. At least he will get paid next year. Would you want to make 3M in Miami or 5.5M in Cleveland?

Anderson wasn't picked up because of the alleged child pornography allegations which turned out to be false (no surprise it was a crazy woman who accused him).

Martin wasn't picked up because he did not have a good stay with the Clippers and his reputation within the league was tainted as locker-room "cancer". This is why he bad mouthed the Clippers when the Knicks played the Clips.
05-22-2013 10:56 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Well, right now it looks like it will be the same old Spurs and Heat in the championship.
05-22-2013 11:02 PM
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InternationPlayboy Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 11:02 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  Well, right now it looks like it will be the same old Spurs and Heat in the championship.

Yep, that was my prediction from the beginning, or at least since Westbrook got hurt.
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2013 01:51 AM by InternationPlayboy.)
05-23-2013 01:50 AM
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MikeinMKE Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Vogel is a great coach / not sure you can blame him for the games MVP (George) being too eager on defense. He had utterly shut LeBron down all 4th quarter and OT.
05-23-2013 05:42 AM
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MikeinMKE Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Pacers and spurs will at least make Heat earn it - unlike Thunder last year who were overwhelmed by the stage of the Finals
05-23-2013 05:43 AM
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JayMillz Offline
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05-23-2013 10:12 AM
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Timoteo Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
The Heat had a bunch of shooters on the floor. In 2 seconds, you're not concerned with guarding the rim - you're concerned with getting a hand up on what's probably going to be a jump shot. Hibbert can't chase a shooter. Paul George didn't do HIS job on that play. They never should have gotten a layup with 2 seconds left. I know it's the media's job to Monday Morning QB on this, but Vogel made the best judgment considering the time on the clock. If there's more time than that, yeah, you have Hibbert out there. It just turned out badly this time.

"The best kind of pride is that which compels a man to do his best when no one is watching."
05-23-2013 10:24 AM
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