I'm Touring The United States! Starting in June, I'm conducting private events in 23 American cities. Click here for full details.

Post Reply 
The NBA Thread
Author Message
Joga Bonito Offline
Wingman
***
Gold Member

Posts: 981
Joined: Mar 2011
Reputation: 17
Post: #851
RE: The NBA Thread
You probably misunderstood me when I said overrated. I meant in terms of his case for Finals MVP, there's no doubt he has been a key cog for the Spurs offense. The point is that he doesn't have nearly the responsibility that Duncan and Parker have on EITHER side of the ball. Of course, Parker doesn't shoot the ball for him, but thats not what I'm saying. If you are a starting 2 guard in the NBA(starting on a championship team nonetheless) the assumption is that you can knock down open shots with regularity anyway so its the expectation at this point. In that sense I don't see how he can be more valuable than his other teammates that are creating opportunities for themselves AND their teammates. If you look at most of the past championship teams, they have had one or two role players or complimentary pieces that have played out of their mind or at least raised their level of play significantly in the players. This concept is nothing new. Saying that Duncan has been invisible is merely paying attention to one side of the ball, and he has been solid offensively, while being a huge key as to why LeBron has not been his usual self.

I never mentioned anything about Parker's MVP type season vaulting him above Green, the regular season doesn't matter at this point. I'm saying his play in the Finals has been instrumental to Green getting his shots. The fact that Green has one responsibility on offense makes this all the more important to consider. Hell, even Pop said that Green is as one-dimensional as it gets on offense since he literally has no moves. I don't see how a guy getting hot all of a sudden, diminishes the value of his teammates especially when he's relying exclusively on them and doing no heavy lifting so to speak.

If you care enough to see how Green is getting open check out the below article.

Quote:Obviously, Green has to make the shots after all these things happen, and to his credit, he's done that. I don't mean to take away from Green himself here. But Green's success is ultimately the result of a Spurs system that:

-Features stars with incredible court vision and unselfishness to find gaps in defenses that few others can find.

-Surrounds them with elite perimeter shooters.

-Incorporates elements of misdirection into the offense rather than just having everyone stand still.

-Commits to players who will never stop moving, constantly outworking the opposition and catching them when they are ball-watching the most.

These four factors have the Heat's defenders spinning around aimlessly. It's no accident that one of the league's best defenses has displayed grade-school breakdowns on Green and others.

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/17/443700...spurs-heat


The defensive player awards are a joke at this point and the example you pointed out illustrates why.
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2013 04:55 PM by Joga Bonito.)
06-17-2013 04:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Doulos2Game Offline
Banned

Posts: 324
Joined: Dec 2012
Post: #852
RE: The NBA Thread
Last stand for the Big three. No matter what happens they will not be together any more.

Pat Riley is a genius and he knows the Miami Heat have been exposed. They just can't play good against top quality half-court offense teams.

Once teams slow the game down, the Miami Heat look weak. No more easy fats break points, no more high flying dunks, no more easy lay-ups for the aging Dwayne Wade.

I know they have have been to the Finals three years in a row, but 2 out of 3 loss is not what was expected.
06-17-2013 06:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Timoteo Offline
International Playboy
******

Posts: 4,883
Joined: May 2011
Reputation: 39
Post: #853
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-17-2013 04:50 PM)iWin Wrote:  You probably misunderstood me when I said overrated. I meant in terms of his case for Finals MVP, there's no doubt he has been a key cog for the Spurs offense. The point is that he doesn't have nearly the responsibility that Duncan and Parker have on EITHER side of the ball. Of course, Parker doesn't shoot the ball for him, but thats not what I'm saying. If you are a starting 2 guard in the NBA(starting on a championship team nonetheless) the assumption is that you can knock down open shots with regularity anyway so its the expectation at this point. In that sense I don't see how he can be more valuable than his other teammates that are creating opportunities for themselves AND their teammates. If you look at most of the past championship teams, they have had one or two role players or complimentary pieces that have played out of their mind or at least raised their level of play significantly in the players. This concept is nothing new. Saying that Duncan has been invisible is merely paying attention to one side of the ball, and he has been solid offensively, while being a huge key as to why LeBron has not been his usual self.

I never mentioned anything about Parker's MVP type season vaulting him above Green, the regular season doesn't matter at this point. I'm saying his play in the Finals has been instrumental to Green getting his shots. The fact that Green has one responsibility on offense makes this all the more important to consider. Hell, even Pop said that Green is as one-dimensional as it gets on offense since he literally has no moves. I don't see how a guy getting hot all of a sudden, diminishes the value of his teammates especially when he's relying exclusively on them and doing no heavy lifting so to speak.

If you care enough to see how Green is getting open check out the below article.

Quote:Obviously, Green has to make the shots after all these things happen, and to his credit, he's done that. I don't mean to take away from Green himself here. But Green's success is ultimately the result of a Spurs system that:

-Features stars with incredible court vision and unselfishness to find gaps in defenses that few others can find.

-Surrounds them with elite perimeter shooters.

-Incorporates elements of misdirection into the offense rather than just having everyone stand still.

-Commits to players who will never stop moving, constantly outworking the opposition and catching them when they are ball-watching the most.

These four factors have the Heat's defenders spinning around aimlessly. It's no accident that one of the league's best defenses has displayed grade-school breakdowns on Green and others.

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/17/443700...spurs-heat


The defensive player awards are a joke at this point and the example you pointed out illustrates why.

You're twisting the argument. I never said what Green is doing diminishes his teammates. I just don't think that because a players isn't "complete," that it should eliminate him from the discussion for a particular award. I'm saying that when a particular player is doing that particular thing at a ridiculous level, he has to be considered. Value can be measured in any number of ways, and he's also played solid defense. If he weren't defending at all, Pop wouldn't have him out there so long. You see how he screams on guys for mistakes? If he were getting burned on D, he'd be sitting. I understand perfectly how the Spurs execute. Just like some guys were saying that Ray Allen is "just a spot-up shooter." Allen WORKS to get those shots, and does more than just stand around waiting for the ball so he can launch. People tend to dismiss jump shooters as not really doing more than they do to get shots. He's a cog in the system, but he's executing at a record level. Neal has done the same. When their more established teammate, Ginobili, wasn't doing the job, they stepped in.

"The best kind of pride is that which compels a man to do his best when no one is watching."
06-17-2013 06:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Timoteo's post:
2Wycked
Joga Bonito Offline
Wingman
***
Gold Member

Posts: 981
Joined: Mar 2011
Reputation: 17
Post: #854
RE: The NBA Thread
I'm not twisting the argument at all. Just as I never said that Parker deserves FMVP due to his regular season like you suggested I did, but we'll just agree to disagree on that one. Green's got a good case for MVP, just not the best case IMO.

The thing about Ray is that he gets to the line very little(avg 2 FTs/gm this yr) and over half his FG attempts are from 3(with the Heat), he was brought in to space the floor. If you don't like him being called a spot up guy because he runs around screens(like many other spot up shooters in the league) then its simply a matter of word choice. Unlike his days with Seattle where he created his own shot and came off screens. Spot up shooter does not simply mean he stands in one spot and waits for a pass(if that's what you're getting at in your post, if not nvm). Playing off screens competently is part of the role as a spot up guy, not something extra that absolves him of the label. Sure he'll put it on the floor every once in a while, but his main role is to be a specialist and Bron and Dwade have the perimeter duties handled. To quantify it even more, 63% of his shots are threes and about 93% of those shots are assisted. Here's the link to the chart if you're interested.

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Ray%20Allen
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2013 07:17 PM by Joga Bonito.)
06-17-2013 07:15 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Timoteo Offline
International Playboy
******

Posts: 4,883
Joined: May 2011
Reputation: 39
Post: #855
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-17-2013 07:15 PM)iWin Wrote:  I'm not twisting the argument at all. Just as I never said that Parker deserves FMVP due to his regular season like you suggested I did, but we'll just agree to disagree on that one. Green's got a good case for MVP, just not the best case IMO.

The thing about Ray is that he gets to the line very little(avg 2 FTs/gm this yr) and over half his FG attempts are from 3(with the Heat), he was brought in to space the floor. If you don't like him being called a spot up guy because he runs around screens(like many other spot up shooters in the league) then its simply a matter of word choice. Unlike his days with Seattle where he created his own shot and came off screens. Spot up shooter does not simply mean he stands in one spot and waits for a pass(if that's what you're getting at in your post, if not nvm). Playing off screens competently is part of the role as a spot up guy, not something extra that absolves him of the label. Sure he'll put it on the floor every once in a while, but his main role is to be a specialist and Bron and Dwade have the perimeter duties handled. To quantify it even more, 63% of his shots are threes and about 93% of those shots are assisted. Here's the link to the chart if you're interested.

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Ray%20Allen

Again, I never suggested that you said any such thing. I made that statement - it wasn't as a reply to anything you posted. Also, not all spot-ups run around. Shooters in the triangle offense did very little of that - they found the open spot on the floor and waited for the kick-out. That's how I'm making the distinction. Naturally, shooters are getting assisted - that isn't the point either. If you look at this series, Allen is getting his share of 3 attempts, but he's putting it on the floor, and cutting to the basket for quite a few opportunities also.

"The best kind of pride is that which compels a man to do his best when no one is watching."
06-17-2013 07:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Timoteo's post:
2Wycked
2Wycked Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,607
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 130
Post: #856
RE: The NBA Thread

Old Chinese Man Wrote:  why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
06-18-2013 02:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
JayMillz Offline
International Playboy
******

Posts: 3,476
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 24
Post: #857
RE: The NBA Thread
   
06-18-2013 06:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes JayMillz's post:
Vacancier Permanent
2Wycked Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,607
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 130
Post: #858
RE: The NBA Thread
I can't for this game to start! Making spaghetti & chicken strips for the game - kind-of wierd combo, but I love it. Let's get banner #5 Tim Duncan!

Old Chinese Man Wrote:  why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
06-18-2013 07:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like 2Wycked's post:
Vacancier Permanent, samsamsam
Vacancier Permanent Offline
International Playboy
******
Gold Member

Posts: 4,451
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation: 140
Post: #859
RE: The NBA Thread
Come on Spurs, let's get the job done tonight!ONE more win!!!TONIGHT!!!!!


(06-18-2013 07:35 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  I can't for this game to start! Making spaghetti & chicken strips for the game - kind-of wierd combo, but I love it. Let's get banner #5 Tim Duncan!
(This post was last modified: 06-18-2013 07:43 PM by Vacancier Permanent.)
06-18-2013 07:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Vacancier Permanent's post:
Mentavious
Mentavious Offline
International Playboy
******
Gold Member

Posts: 3,463
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 35
Post: #860
RE: The NBA Thread
Spaghetti and wings/boneless chicken is one of my fav combos.

I'm excited for this game.

A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
06-18-2013 08:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Mentavious's post:
2Wycked
Mentavious Offline
International Playboy
******
Gold Member

Posts: 3,463
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 35
Post: #861
RE: The NBA Thread
Splitter is awful.

A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
06-18-2013 08:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
2Wycked Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,607
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 130
Post: #862
RE: The NBA Thread
Spurs going into the locker room with a lead at the half! YES

Old Chinese Man Wrote:  why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
06-18-2013 09:12 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes 2Wycked's post:
Vacancier Permanent
Captain Ahab Offline
Chubby Chaser
**

Posts: 438
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 6
Post: #863
RE: The NBA Thread
Duncan has 25...

Lebron has... *throws hands in the air*

Fuck it.

Homebase: Orlando, FL.

Do It Yourself Car and Motorcycle Repair Thread
06-18-2013 09:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Captain Ahab's post:
Vacancier Permanent
Professor Fox Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,187
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 12
Post: #864
RE: The NBA Thread
Vintage Duncan!!!
06-18-2013 09:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like Professor Fox's post:
2Wycked, Vacancier Permanent, Mentavious, JoyStick
WestCoast Offline
International Playboy
******
Gold Member

Posts: 3,153
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 85
Post: #865
RE: The NBA Thread
Tim Duncan is going to make me lose some money. He is playing like he is back in the twin towers era. Good god.
06-18-2013 09:15 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Vacancier Permanent Offline
International Playboy
******
Gold Member

Posts: 4,451
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation: 140
Post: #866
RE: The NBA Thread
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Tim Duncan Show! Game 1, it was the TP show, Game 3, the Manu Ginobili & Gary Neal Show, Game 5, the Danny Green Show and Game 6, the Timmy Show!
Come on Spurs!!!! Focus, concentration, defence, avoid those stupid turn overs and it's going to be in the bag!!!Banana
(This post was last modified: 06-18-2013 09:31 PM by Vacancier Permanent.)
06-18-2013 09:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
2Wycked Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,607
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 130
Post: #867
RE: The NBA Thread
This game is a nailbiter - which is how it should be.

Old Chinese Man Wrote:  why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
06-18-2013 10:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes 2Wycked's post:
JoyStick
TheBulldozer Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,789
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 78
Post: #868
RE: The NBA Thread
Here we go! This is going to be awesome.
06-18-2013 10:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Kabal Away
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,704
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 44
Post: #869
RE: The NBA Thread
Lebron ditched the headband.

Piccolo would agree that this means shit's getting serious.

[Image: filepicker%2F7jpSDq0SNSLNiZRqtWLI_piccolo.jpg]

#NoSingleMoms
#NoHymenNoDiamond
#DontWantDaughters
06-18-2013 10:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Kabal's post:
Professor Fox, Mentavious, JoyStick
WestCoast Offline
International Playboy
******
Gold Member

Posts: 3,153
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 85
Post: #870
RE: The NBA Thread
Lebron James is playing like he did against the pistons.... This is serious throw back style basketball.
06-18-2013 10:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
2Wycked Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,607
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 130
Post: #871
RE: The NBA Thread
Fucking Tony Parker!!!

Old Chinese Man Wrote:  why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
06-18-2013 10:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like 2Wycked's post:
Mentavious, JoyStick, Professor Fox
Professor Fox Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,187
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 12
Post: #872
RE: The NBA Thread
PARKER WHAT THE FUCK
06-18-2013 10:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
WestCoast Offline
International Playboy
******
Gold Member

Posts: 3,153
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 85
Post: #873
RE: The NBA Thread
Holy shit ha Kawhi Leonard ftw.
(This post was last modified: 06-18-2013 10:43 PM by WestCoast.)
06-18-2013 10:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
2Wycked Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,607
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 130
Post: #874
RE: The NBA Thread
Why the hell do you have LeBron take the 3 when Ray Allen is on the floor - he just saved the Heat's season.

Old Chinese Man Wrote:  why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
06-18-2013 10:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Kabal Away
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,704
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 44
Post: #875
RE: The NBA Thread
What. A. Fucking. Game.

#NoSingleMoms
#NoHymenNoDiamond
#DontWantDaughters
06-18-2013 10:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication