Read The Forum Rules: We have a clear set of rules to keep the forum running smoothly. Click here to review them.

Post Reply 
Importance of Macros
Author Message
worldwidetraveler Offline
Hummingbird
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 3,664
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 35
Post: #51
RE: Importance of Macros
(04-04-2013 02:28 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  To directly answer your question, if all your calories came from soda and candy you would be deficient in almost every vitamin and mineral and you wouldnt be eating the healthy fats or making your protein requirements to gain/maintain muscle mass. You would still lose weight and you would get a 6 pack as long as you constantly were under your daily calorie breakeven point. Fat loss is based purely on calories, its something this board still doesn't understand.

The board doesn't understand it, eh? Well, it seems you don't understand weight loss isn't necessarily the same thing as fat loss.
04-04-2013 02:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Giovonny Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 6,405
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 310
Post: #52
RE: Importance of Macros
(04-04-2013 02:28 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  As long as you ate under your daily calorie maintenance you would lose weight and gain a 6 pack.

I get what your saying. Calories in vs. Calories out.

I think this is a gross over-simplification.

Building a great body is more complex then just counting calories in and calories out.

Not all foods are the same, hence, not all calories are the same.

I believe that we also need to look at the quality of the calories, not just the quantity.

Calories that come from fresh vegetables are much different then calories that come from candy and soda.

Calories that come from fresh fish are much different then calories that come from Mcdonalds hamburgers.

Increasing the quality of your calories is just as important as reducing the quantity of your calories.

But, generally speaking your correct, you want to eat less calories then you burn.

However, to burn fat and build muscle in the fastest and most most efficient way possible, quality of calories has to be considered.

Eating candy and soda all day is foolish, even if you are burning more calories then you take in.

1000 calories of candy and soda will have a much different effect on your body compared to 1000 calories of fish, vegetables, and brown rice.

When you eat is also important.

1000 calories when you wake up will have a different effect on your body compared to 1000 calories right before you go to bed.

(04-04-2013 02:28 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  You cannot spot reduce fat

I disagree. I think you can spot reduce fat one area: The Belly

You identify foods that add fat to your belly and you stop eating them.

This causes you to lose fat in your belly.

Have you ever seen guys who were skinny all over but had a fat guy???

I can make their belly smaller. By changing their diet.

I tell them to eat less calories, but also eat better calories and limit their eating at night.

This will remove belly fat.

All in all, we would probably agree with each other if we sat down face to face and talked about this.

I wanted to respond in detail to what you wrote because I don't want Slubu to think he can just eat whatever and he will lose his gut.

Losing a gut can be a complex science and art and I want Slubu to have to the best information possible.

If he burned 1000 calories and ate 999 calories worth of candy, he should lose weight right? He took in less then he burned..

Thats a foolish strategy..

I say burn 1000 calories and eat fish, veges, and brown rice until you feel satisfied. Then, stop eating for the night except for maybe a protein shake.

In a week, which guy will look and feel better?
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 03:19 PM by Giovonny.)
04-04-2013 02:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Giovonny's post:
NuMbEr7
Giovonny Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 6,405
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 310
Post: #53
RE: Importance of Macros
(04-04-2013 02:38 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 02:28 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  To directly answer your question, if all your calories came from soda and candy you would be deficient in almost every vitamin and mineral and you wouldnt be eating the healthy fats or making your protein requirements to gain/maintain muscle mass. You would still lose weight and you would get a 6 pack as long as you constantly were under your daily calorie breakeven point. Fat loss is based purely on calories, its something this board still doesn't understand.

Well, it seems you don't understand weight loss isn't necessarily the same thing as fat loss.

Yes, exactly!

Weight loss and Fat loss are 2 different things!

If you want to lose weight, eat less calories then you burn.

If you want to lose fat, its a bit more complex then that, like I have been describing.

If you want to lose belly fat, specifically, it becomes a little more complex.

Thanks worldwidetraveler!

Great point.

Boxers/wresters/mma fighters can lose 10-15 pounds in 24 hours before they weigh-in.

How?

They don't eat the night before, they don't eat breakfast, they piss and shit all they can, they sweat alot, they don't drink anything. They basically dry up all the water in their body.

They can lose 10 pounds of pure "water weight".

Then, right after the weigh in, they eat and drink and they gain all that weight right back.

Did they lose any fat, not really.

Losing weight and losing fat are 2 different things.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 03:18 PM by Giovonny.)
04-04-2013 03:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Every10GivesMeA10 Away
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 572
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 11
Post: #54
RE: Importance of Macros
Sorry Giovonny, I love your posts on game but your posts regarding nutrition aren't correct.

Quote:If you want to lose weight, eat less calories then you burn.

If you want to lose fat, its a bit more complex then that, like I have been describing.

If you want to lose belly fat, specifically, it becomes a little more complex.

So weight loss occurs when you eat less calories, you said.
Losing bodyfat = losing weight.

If you eat a typical bodybuilding diet that is high in the macronutrient called protein and are on a calorie deficit, you will mostly lose bodyfat and not muscle. Hence the 'Importance of Macros." If you'd combine a low protein diet + caloric deficit, sure, you could lose muscle + fat.

Quote:Building a great body is more complex then just counting calories in and calories out.

Not all foods are the same, hence, not all calories are the same.

Agreed, which is why the thread title is "Importance of Macros."

Macronutrients = Protein, dietary fat and carbohydrates. Protein and Carbs have 4 calories per gram while fat has 9 calories per gram.

Example:
You cannot eat 500 grams of carbs, 20 grams of fat and 40 grams of protein and expect your cock to be functioning well. (i.e be healthy)

Quote: Eating candy and soda all day is foolish, even if you are burning more calories then you take in.

It is indeed foolish but no one is promoting eating candy all day.

Quote:Calories that come from fresh vegetables are much different then calories that come from candy and soda.

Calories that come from fresh fish are much different then calories that come from Mcdonalds hamburgers.

The small intestine does not know your food comes from McDonald's. Your body only knows its nutritional value. Again, no one is claiming that all these calories are 'the same', but eating ice cream over brown rice will not suddenly make you fatter given the macros are the same. It is however a smart idea to eat a diet that consists mostly of micronutrient dense foods and then fitting in little treats here and there if you feel like it.

Quote: 1000 calories when you wake up will have a different effect on your body compared to 1000 calories right before you go to bed.

It won't have an effect on body composition if your macros are met at the end of the day.

Quote: I disagree. I think you can spot reduce fat one area: The Belly

This is impossible.
04-04-2013 03:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Jaylow Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 748
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 7
Post: #55
RE: Importance of Macros
Quote:Well, it seems you don't understand weight loss isn't necessarily the same thing as fat loss.

There is fat, muscle and water weight. What other "weight" is there and explain how you can plan long term weight loss based on dehydrating yourself? Is there another type of "weight" on human beings that I am not aware of?

Here is Josef Rakich, one of the most ripped natural dudes I have seen.

http://www.josefrakichfitness.com/pages/...r-macros-2

Quote:Eating donuts won't automatically make you get fat. Gaining body fat is all about excess calories not the types of foods that you consume.

There is no such thing as "good" and "bad" foods, or "clean" and "dirty' foods" (unless you are talking about health wise). There is no list of foods your not allowed to eat to reach your body composition goals. Don't think you have to give up pizza or McDonald's just because you want to lose some weight. General body composition is about calorie and macronutrient control, hitting your macronutrient targets and calorie requirements however and whenever you want with ANY foods of your personal preference.

Macronutrients are all that matters in terms of body composition. The difference between processed vs unprocessed foods is MICROnutrients ie: vitamins and minerals and has to do with the health inside your body not the outside. Obviously I would advocate eating veggies over candy any day of the week but I am trying to stress that gaining muscle or losing weight and getting a 6 pack, the veggies vs candy does not matter on a purely physical standpoint.

Quote:I disagree. I think you can spot reduce fat one area: The Belly
You identify foods that add fat to your belly and you stop eating them.
This causes you to lose fat in your belly.
Have you ever seen guys who were skinny all over but had a fat guy???
I can make their belly smaller. By changing their diet.
I tell them to eat less calories, but also eat better calories and limit their eating at night.
This will remove belly fat.

edit: This sounds like you are talking about stomach bloating not fat gain. If you love certain foods and they cause you to get a huge gut for a few hours then yes, eating those foods at night before you go to bed is a much better idea then eating them and getting bloated then trying to go out and day game. Bloating has to do with how your body reacts to certain carbs and you should probably go see a doctor. Bread does this to a lot of people. This is not fat gain however.

This is horrible advice and 100% incorrect in every way. Skinny guys with a gut goes right along with what I was saying about you cannot spot reduce/increase fat in a certain area. Some dudes have most of their fat go right to their bellies while other dudes have fat spread out more equally all over their bodies and other dudes have most of their fat go to their ass/legs. There is no specific food that increases fat in one area of the body more then the other, it is how that person was made genetically. If this skinny fat person you described starting lifting weight and after 3 years was ripped with huge muscles and 5% bodyfat, if that person then decided to stop doing all physical activity and over eat then all of his fat increases would be primarily seen in his belly again. A person eating 2000 calories a day of salad would have the same physique of a person eating 2000 calories a day eating candy.

Being skinny fat is a horrible position to be in. You either have to lose more weight and have the figure of a girl or you have to gain more weight and lift heavy THEN cut. The process of curing skinny fat takes AT LEAST a year but probably more.

Quote:Eating candy and soda all day is foolish, even if you are burning more calories then you take in.
1000 calories of candy and soda will have a much different effect on your body compared to 1000 calories of fish, vegetables, and brown rice.
When you eat is also important.

I agree on all points and in the bolded part I am talking about the inside of your body, not in terms of how good of shape you are in on the outside. Please keep in mind that our discussion to this point has been all on the physical outsides of our bodies and not the inside.

Quote:In a week, which guy will look and feel better?

The dude eating the way you describe would feel a hell of a lot better then someone eating nothing but candy but that is a highly over exaggerated example. You would feel like shit eating 2000 cals of the same food regardless if it was veggies or candy. I am trying to stress that eating 75% "clean" and 25% junk foods daily is the same as eating 100% "clean" foods daily and body composition on the outside has nothing to do with whether you're eating candy or veggies. Having 25% calories of candy a day isn't going to do anything negative to you in the long run as long as that other 75% hits your daily micro/macronutrients. I would also argue that someone who eats 100% "clean" will eventually wear themselves out and have binge days and eventually give up because it is so hard to keep doing that where if I told someone they can reach their physical goals by eating SOME unprocessed foods and SOME junk food they are much more likely to stay on the diet because they can still fit their favorite unhealthy foods in and still get a 6pack and huge muscles.

In your MMA example, Thiago Alvez and Johnny Hendricks I believe had the biggest cuts to make weight in the UFC. They both lose about 35-40 lbs and they are not losing any fat it is almost all water weight and the process of dehydrating yourself is 1) highly dangerous and is done under the supervision of a team of doctors/nutritionists 2) cannot be applicable to average dudes like us since we are not elite athletes 3) fat loss/muscle gain is a slow process, you talk about eating clean foods but recommend taking massive amounts of water out of our bodies when water is the most essential thing our bodies need? How would this be a long term strategy for average dudes like us in terms of weight loss?

The fuck do guys think "edge" means? A hair grooming product? -MikeCF
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 05:16 PM by Jaylow.)
04-04-2013 04:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Jaylow's post:
Every10GivesMeA10, NuMbEr7, bodmon
Hannibal Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,956
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 52
Post: #56
RE: Importance of Macros
I think what Giovonny is confusing here is that some people have a gut and, when they switch their diets, some of that pooch seems to go away.

If I'm not mistaken, that could easily be bloating from eating foods that upset your digestive system. I used to get that really bad from eating bread and certain junk foods, which I've quit eating (except for the holidays, relatives give you some pretty nasty looks if you're a guy and you refuse to try their food because you're on a diet).

What Jaylow is saying is correct. If you hit your macros properly, you will achieve whatever body composition you want. The hodge twins do this by eating cornbread with protein powder in it, along with protein shakes.

They claimed that they were eating the right amount of protein, the right amount of fat, and the rest of the calories they needed they dumped into carbs for that day. I'm inclined to agree with them, they're jacked and cut as hell. Granted, they're probably not getting their micros, so there's that.




“I have a very simple rule when it comes to management: hire the best people from your competitors, pay them more than they were earning, and give them bonuses and incentives based on their performance. That’s how you build a first-class operation.”
― Donald J. Trump

If you want some PDF's on bodyweight exercise with little to no equipment, send me a PM and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.
04-04-2013 05:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Jaylow Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 748
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 7
Post: #57
RE: Importance of Macros
(04-04-2013 05:06 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  I think what Giovonny is confusing here is that some people have a gut and, when they switch their diets, some of that pooch seems to go away.

If I'm not mistaken, that could easily be bloating from eating foods that upset your digestive system. I used to get that really bad from eating bread and certain junk foods, which I've quit eating (except for the holidays, relatives give you some pretty nasty looks if you're a guy and you refuse to try their food because you're on a diet).

What Jaylow is saying is correct. If you hit your macros properly, you will achieve whatever body composition you want. The hodge twins do this by eating cornbread with protein powder in it, along with protein shakes.

They claimed that they were eating the right amount of protein, the right amount of fat, and the rest of the calories they needed they dumped into carbs for that day. I'm inclined to agree with them, they're jacked and cut as hell. Granted, they're probably not getting their micros, so there's that.

Usually bloating is caused by eating lots of certain carbs all at once and only happens to some people. This is not fat gain. If that is what Gio is talking about then that makes more sense but just because you ate something and your gut gets huge doesn't mean you are gaining massive amounts of weight.

Those dudes can eat a couple multivitamins to get their micronutrients and eating veggies adds very little calories so you can get them there as well.

The fuck do guys think "edge" means? A hair grooming product? -MikeCF
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 05:11 PM by Jaylow.)
04-04-2013 05:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Every10GivesMeA10 Away
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 572
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 11
Post: #58
RE: Importance of Macros
The Hodgetwins did not build their physique eating cornbread and whey protein. You should check their older videos about their views on nutrition.
04-04-2013 05:33 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Hannibal Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,956
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 52
Post: #59
RE: Importance of Macros
True, I haven't watched all their older videos, but I remember them bashing the idea of cutting and bulking. They've also got this other channel devoted entirely to intermittent fasting. Apparently, they do it everyday and they only have a 4 hour feeding window.

Are you just referring to the twinmuscleworkout youtube channel or do they have another channel devoted to nutrition? They've even got a pseudo-game relationships channel.

“I have a very simple rule when it comes to management: hire the best people from your competitors, pay them more than they were earning, and give them bonuses and incentives based on their performance. That’s how you build a first-class operation.”
― Donald J. Trump

If you want some PDF's on bodyweight exercise with little to no equipment, send me a PM and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.
04-04-2013 05:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Every10GivesMeA10 Away
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 572
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 11
Post: #60
RE: Importance of Macros
Yeah the twinmuscleworkout channel. They used to be very anti 'if it fits your macros' and anti 'dirty' foods. They were getting a lot of hate from it, so instead they started promoting it just to get more people on their side.





Anyway, they're not the best source of getting solid information these days. I just watch them for entertainment. Now they are all about the money since they got a new TV show that's premiering this month.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 06:14 PM by Every10GivesMeA10.)
04-04-2013 06:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Hannibal Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,956
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 52
Post: #61
RE: Importance of Macros
Good for them that they got a TV show. I didn't know that's what they used to advocate, though. At least they're making some money doing what they like to do.

I get most of my information from books, I just remember seeing the ghetto eating youtube video a while back on the RVF and this thread reminded me of it.

Even with books, it took me probably 2 years to sift through all the mounds of bullshit depending on the publisher. Dragondoor is one of the biggest perpetrators, selling 5 dollars worth of information in a 50 dollar book. Good thing most of them are ebooks, haha. I would say the best no-nonsense resources I've found for building muscle and strength would probably be bodybuilding.com, scooby's workshop, and the majority of coach sommers' material where he doesn't constantly shit on weight training (if bodyweight training is your thing). If you've found anything better, let me know.

“I have a very simple rule when it comes to management: hire the best people from your competitors, pay them more than they were earning, and give them bonuses and incentives based on their performance. That’s how you build a first-class operation.”
― Donald J. Trump

If you want some PDF's on bodyweight exercise with little to no equipment, send me a PM and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.
04-04-2013 06:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
slubu Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,042
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 113
Post: #62
RE: Importance of Macros
Well lets assume macros matter for body composition. Are the macros I posted for myself on page 2 accurate?
04-04-2013 08:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
worldwidetraveler Offline
Hummingbird
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 3,664
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 35
Post: #63
RE: Importance of Macros
(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  
Quote:Well, it seems you don't understand weight loss isn't necessarily the same thing as fat loss.

There is fat, muscle and water weight. What other "weight" is there and explain how you can plan long term weight loss based on dehydrating yourself? Is there another type of "weight" on human beings that I am not aware of?

Muscle loss = weight loss. Water loss = weight loss.

Eating candy all day, while maintaining a calorie deficit, may help you lose weight, but will it mainly be muscle, water or fat?

Losing muscle will not help you get that six pack you kept harping on.

If it was that easy, we all would be able to drop our calories incredibly low and have a six pack within a month.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 01:35 AM by worldwidetraveler.)
04-05-2013 01:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Jaylow Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 748
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 7
Post: #64
RE: Importance of Macros
(04-05-2013 01:34 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Muscle loss = weight loss. Water loss = weight loss.

Eating candy all day, while maintaining a calorie deficit, may help you lose weight, but will it mainly be muscle, water or fat?

Losing muscle will not help you get that six pack you kept harping on.

Right, but you guys were talking as if there was some other thing on our body to lose weight other then fat muscle and water. The point I was making is that you can't base weight loss on water loss and no one wants to lose muscle so you can't base weight loss on muscle loss, the only thing left is fat loss so basically weight loss = fat loss. I was answering to this comment below.

(04-04-2013 02:38 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  The board doesn't understand it, eh? Well, it seems you don't understand weight loss isn't necessarily the same thing as fat loss.

Quote:If it was that easy, we all would be able to drop our calories incredibly low and have a six pack within a month.

Dropping calories more than 500 cals under your daily breakeven point will result in a lot of muscle loss. It is advocated never to go above 500 cals from your daily breakeven point when bulking or cutting. But for the sake of argument, yes, if you massively cut your calories you would see a 6 pack faster. A 6 pack is in no way related to muscle gain and has everything to do with lower body fat % which is entirely related to eating calories below your breakeven point. Every person has a 6 pack including 500 lbs obese dudes, its just not visible. The definition of a 6 pack has to do with muscle gain however.

The fuck do guys think "edge" means? A hair grooming product? -MikeCF
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 02:55 AM by Jaylow.)
04-05-2013 02:50 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
MikeCF Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 4,116
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 176
Post: #65
RE: Importance of Macros
(04-04-2013 02:38 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 02:28 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  To directly answer your question, if all your calories came from soda and candy you would be deficient in almost every vitamin and mineral and you wouldnt be eating the healthy fats or making your protein requirements to gain/maintain muscle mass. You would still lose weight and you would get a 6 pack as long as you constantly were under your daily calorie breakeven point. Fat loss is based purely on calories, its something this board still doesn't understand.

The board doesn't understand it, eh? Well, it seems you don't understand weight loss isn't necessarily the same thing as fat loss.

How many physiques has Jaylow built? HIs own? Any others? Clients?

Like most internet experts he has a lot of opinions, and will be the first to shit talk "bro science."

But any guy who has actually built a body for himself or others knows that macros matter and that the guy is a moron.

It's just not worth engaging him.
04-05-2013 11:52 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
MikeCF Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 4,116
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 176
Post: #66
RE: Importance of Macros
This thread is funny.

I met slubu in real life. Here is what I said:

"I can tell from looking at you that you are not a big eater. IF is not the right approach for you because you wont' be able to get your calories in. IF is for guys who like to eat and think a 1,000+ plus meal sounds AWESOME, and that 3 a day within a short window is nirvana."

Now he's saying he can't get his cals in.

Wink

Incidentally, the test scores for most is an F-!

Slubu is a NEWBIE. What does that mean?

Since he's starting in a detrained condition, he needs to simply train hard and he will lose fat while gaining muscle. NEWBIE GAINS.

By the way, I saw no gut on the guy and my first impression is that he was skinny as fuck.

He probably has bad posture from not working out. That makes him look fat because his midsection bends forward, giving the illusion of being fat.

I could slouch and exhale air and make it look like I'm pregnant, but that's not what a gut is. A gut is a big fucking pile of fat that moves and sloushes around and flops over the belt line. When you run or jump rope you can feel the fat bouncing up and down.

I know this because, BULK MODE, I actually have a gut. That shit will be gone in 4-6 weeks.

Fat is easy to lose. Muscle is hard to gain.

P.S. Slubu, I told you, "Pack your shakes, bring them to the gym, and have a shake within minutes of training."

Are you doing that?

If you're not loading your body up with nutrients immediately post workout, then not much else you do is gonna matter.
04-05-2013 11:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
slubu Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,042
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 113
Post: #67
RE: Importance of Macros
(04-05-2013 11:58 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  This thread is funny.

I met slubu in real life. Here is what I said:

"I can tell from looking at you that you are not a big eater. IF is not the right approach for you because you wont' be able to get your calories in. IF is for guys who like to eat and think a 1,000+ plus meal sounds AWESOME, and that 3 a day within a short window is nirvana."

Now he's saying he can't get his cals in.

Wink

Incidentally, the test scores for most is an F-!

Slubu is a NEWBIE. What does that mean?

Since he's starting in a detrained condition, he needs to simply train hard and he will lose fat while gaining muscle. NEWBIE GAINS.

By the way, I saw no gut on the guy and my first impression is that he was skinny as fuck.

He probably has bad posture from not working out. That makes him look fat because his midsection bends forward, giving the illusion of being fat.

I could slouch and exhale air and make it look like I'm pregnant, but that's not what a gut is. A gut is a big fucking pile of fat that moves and sloushes around and flops over the belt line. When you run or jump rope you can feel the fat bouncing up and down.

I know this because, BULK MODE, I actually have a gut. That shit will be gone in 4-6 weeks.

Fat is easy to lose. Muscle is hard to gain.

P.S. Slubu, I told you, "Pack your shakes, bring them to the gym, and have a shake within minutes of training."

Are you doing that?

If you're not loading your body up with nutrients immediately post workout, then not much else you do is gonna matter.

I took your shit to heart man, I'm trying. I do take protein now with me to the workout and down it there right after. Then I walk home and eat as much as I can as quickly as I can.

You're right though, it's a fantasy to try and eat 3k cals within 8 hours.

My posture sucks because of my scoliosis, sometimes I hide that well though, but I'm rocking a 60 degree curve in my spine.

I'm have a very inquisitive mind, so I read something like about macros and then read more and more and then convince myself it's the next great thing.

But maybe I'm exaggerating my gut but it's there. Maybe it's just loose skin from previously weighing 200lbs. If I lie flat on my back there's no gut. If I eat a shit ton and get bloated looks like I'm pregnant.
04-05-2013 01:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Giovonny Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 6,405
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 310
Post: #68
RE: Importance of Macros
I can't wait to get home and breakdown this stuff even more.

Slubu,

You can lose that gut!!!

Eat less at night!

Be back in 3 hours.

Gotta go help somebody Day Game!
04-05-2013 01:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Giovonny Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 6,405
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 310
Post: #69
RE: Importance of Macros
(04-05-2013 01:14 PM)slubu Wrote:  Then I walk home and eat as much as I can as quickly as I can.

That doesn't sound like a very good idea..!

I mean, if you are trying to lose your gut, you should not be "eating as much as you can as quickly as you can"!

Just eat until you are satisfied and then stop eating.

It doesn't matter if you hit your macro numbers, IT MATTERS IF YOU LOSE YOUR GUT!

In terms of gut removal -- Eating less is generally a better strategy then eating more. (Especially, at night)
04-05-2013 01:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Jaylow Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 748
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 7
Post: #70
RE: Importance of Macros
(04-05-2013 11:52 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  How many physiques has Jaylow built? HIs own? Any others? Clients?
Like most internet experts he has a lot of opinions, and will be the first to shit talk "bro science."
But any guy who has actually built a body for himself or others knows that macros matter and that the guy is a moron.
It's just not worth engaging him.

I spent almost 30 minutes responding to Gio as best I could instead of attacking him like you are with me and we are having a nice discussion so far.

I never said macros don't matter, I said in terms of getting a 6 pack they don't matter, its all based on losing fat which is based 100% on lowering calories. In terms of building a great physique macros are everything. I don't think you read most of my post.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...=121703981

I am 205 lbs right now. I am cutting on 2300 cals a day. 165-180g protein, 80-100g fat, rest in carbs.

The fuck do guys think "edge" means? A hair grooming product? -MikeCF
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 03:03 PM by Jaylow.)
04-05-2013 02:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
MikeCF Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 4,116
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 176
Post: #71
RE: Importance of Macros
You are a newbie.

Lift weights. Train hard. Keep your back safe.

I personally do not like XFit, for reasons I told you. Given your back, I would be especially leery. XFit has a near 100% injury rate. Nearly every guy who trains there is out.

I see it all the time. Guys are telling me about their new workouts. Then they are out of the gym for 8 weeks.

Since you are not a big eater, don't sweat the small stuff.

Get protein when you wake up, after you train, and before bed. 50 grams each time. Use whole foods or protein powder. Just get it in.

You will lose fat and gain muscle.

Enjoy the first 8-12 weeks. Your gains will be as good as if you were a more experienced guy on steroids!
04-05-2013 02:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Giovonny Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 6,405
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 310
Post: #72
RE: Importance of Macros
Guys,

Thanks for the detailed responses. I am learning from this.

I will admit, I have never heard of "macros" until this thread. My knowledge is 100% based on "Bro-Science".

"Bros" have been studying this stuff for just as long as people with PHDs. Sometimes, I think "bro-science" is better then academic science because our knowledge does not come from a textbook or from other peoples research. Our knowledge is based on 100% trial and error. Our knowledge comes from looking in the mirror everyday and evaluating our diet and workouts. We experiment and research with our own bodies.

Anyways, alot of what you guys are saying is great information. I don't want to discount it.

My perspective is a little different. I was educated in a different way.

I was educated like this..

How to avoid getting fat?

Don't eat shitty food. Exercise.

How to lose weight?

Eat better, eat less, exercise harder.

How to lose a gut?

Eat alot of clean food during the day, workout hard, stop eating at sunset.

How to get muscular?

Lift alot of weight and eat alot clean protein.

That about all I know. But, if you follow those simple rules, you will be in better shape then 99% of the guys with masters degrees in kinesiology.

Okay, now, I will breakdown a few responses..

Not because I think I'm right and I want to argue, but, just because I am really into this stuff and I like to help people with it and advance my own thinking.

(04-04-2013 03:57 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  Sorry Giovonny, I love your posts on game but your posts regarding nutrition aren't correct.

No worries, thanks for challenging my thinking, thats how my thinking evolves.

I went through your post and I didn't disagree with anything. Except 2 things..

I said:

Quote: 1000 calories when you wake up will have a different effect on your body compared to 1000 calories right before you go to bed.

You replied:

(04-04-2013 03:57 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  It won't have an effect on body composition if your macros are met at the end of the day.

1) I beleive eating before bed effects your gut/6 pack. People with a gut should go to bed on a slightly empty stomach. People who want a 6 pack should go to bed on a slightly empty stomach. If you go to bed with heavy food in your stomach, your body has to process that food and it can not clean out the excess fat around the belly. If you go to bed on an empty stomach, you will get hungry around 3am, but, you will be sleeping, your body will start to eat the excess fat around your belly.

You said..

WHEN you eat matters. It not all about calories in and calories out and hitting macro numbers. What types of calories and when you eat them is also a huge factor.

Not sure if you agree or disagree with that?

2) Spot reducing belly fat.

You said..

(04-04-2013 03:57 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  This is impossible.

I disagree. I know its possible. I've done it. I've helped others to do it. I will help Slubu do it.

Slubu is the perfect example because he is skinny with a gut. He only has fat around his gut. He has no fat on his arms, legs, or butt, its all on his lower stomach.

Can he remove this fat from his belly?

Of course.

How?

Identify the shitty foods that turn into belly fat. Things like pizza, cake, ice cream, beer, cookies, etc.

For alot of us, this stuff literally goes straight to our belly. We can see it the next morning. We literally get fatter over night.

If you look in the mirror every morning, over time, you will start to be able to identify which foods are making you fat.

One you have identified these foods, stop eating them, your belly will get smaller.

Thus, you have spot reduced belly fat from your gut.

Also, eating alot of vegetables and drinking vegetable juice will help melt away belly fat.

I believe that fruits and vegetables literally breakdown fat and push it into your bladder to be shit out.

Not eating fruits and vegetables and not drinking water means that your fat is just continuing to accumulate around your belly.

Fruits, vegetables, and water literally wash away fat. I noticed that oatmeal can do this also.

This is another way to spot reduce belly fat.

More to come. I will respond to Jaylow next...

Thanks guys, this is fun and educational.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 05:22 PM by Giovonny.)
04-05-2013 05:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Giovonny Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 6,405
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 310
Post: #73
RE: Importance of Macros
(04-04-2013 08:59 PM)slubu Wrote:  Are the macros I posted for myself on page 2 accurate?

Why are you asking us???

Only you know if your gut got smaller last night!?!

Did you look in the mirror this morning? Did your gut get smaller, bigger, or stay the same???

If it got bigger, you ate too much last night. (And/Or didn't workout hard enough)

If it stayed the same, you ate too much last night. (And/Or didn't workout hard enough)

If it got smaller, you ate the right amount of food.

Only you know this. If I was there with you I could look at your gut every morning and help you fine tune your diet everyday !

(04-04-2013 08:59 PM)slubu Wrote:  Are the macros I posted for myself on page 2 accurate?

Lets assume they are accurate. "Accuracy" only means something if you are losing that gut. "Accuracy" of those numbers really does not matter. Gut reduction should be the only indicator of success or failure.

Lets assume they are inaccurate. Is your gut getting smaller? If your gut is getting smaller, then those "inaccurate" figures are actually causing your gut to get smaller. "Accuracy" of formulas is less important gut reduction.

Gut reduction should be the only indicator of success or failure.

(04-05-2013 01:14 PM)slubu Wrote:  If I eat a shit ton and get bloated looks like I'm pregnant.

Exactly, so eat less. (Especially, at night)

Identify which foods make you bloated. Stop eating them. (Especially, at night)
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 05:26 PM by Giovonny.)
04-05-2013 05:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Giovonny Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 6,405
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 310
Post: #74
RE: Importance of Macros
Jaylow,

Thanks for the detailed response. Educational.

I will respond in an hour or 2.
04-05-2013 05:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Every10GivesMeA10 Away
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 572
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 11
Post: #75
RE: Importance of Macros
Quote: 1) I beleive eating before bed effects your gut/6 pack. People with a gut should go to bed on a slightly empty stomach. People who want a 6 pack should go to bed on a slightly empty stomach. If you go to bed with heavy food in your stomach, your body has to process that food and it can not clean out the excess fat around the belly. If you go to bed on an empty stomach, you will get hungry around 3am, but, you will be sleeping, your body will start to eat the excess fat around your belly.

Your body only 'cleans out' the excess fat around your belly if you are in a caloric deficit. Some people look leaner in the morning if they don't eat at night, so you that could be why you think eating at night makes you fat.

This study even says that eating a high carb meal before bed actually increases fat loss: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21475137

About spot reducing fat... It is impossible.

Your body loses fat all over. Women usually store it in their butt, thighs, etc and for guys its around their belly. You cannot choose where the fat comes off first. Belly fat often comes off last AND if you happen to eat over your daily needs for a prolonged period of time, your belly is often the first place that fat goes to. Again, this changes per person. Some people have a 6 pack but their upper back is fat, or their arms and so on.

You might be confusing bloating with fat gain as well. Eating pizza one night will not make your belly gain fat. The sodium might make you look fatter, however. But that goes away within 1-2 days.
04-05-2013 06:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication