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American the Grim Truth
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kindredspirit Offline
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Post: #26
RE: American the Grim Truth
(06-30-2010 02:02 AM)lavinci Wrote:  This is one of the most ignorant threads I've read. The thread was originated by a post on a different perspective of life in US by a guy who wrote that he has lived all around the world, and you'd think that an interesting subject like this would have top class remarks here on international living, yet what a surprise--the guy's being slammed by guys who live in the States and have obviously never lived in any of the countries mentioned by the guy, but somehow they seem more educated in the subject of comparing other countries to US, and even more ironically, they're claiming that they even have the best education in the world. This is exactly the attitude that makes Americans disliked all over the world and why most of us don't bother traveling around the world. Good work guys.

What you have to do is start discovering the world by yourself instead of quoting what onesided US media have been shaping your outlook on life since you knew how to think. Of course US is great. It's cool to feel proud to be American. America in many ways is the most super place in the world, but if you inspire to consider yourself more intelligent than the patriots around you who believe in US just because they're not educated to know of anything more, you have to try something different. If you want to be talking about the world, you want to be a cosmopolitan. You want to move to a different culture and look back on US from a different perspective. As I wrote in my previous post, if you have never actually LIVED abroad and felt part of a different society, you just will not understand what the guy in the blog is talking about, because the way you see US is the way you were programmed to see it all your life. It's not the same thing. This is so crucial. Of course everything in the US seems to great to you because you have no idea what coutrnies like France and Spain are really about. You only hear the bad stuff. Same way they hear only the bad stuff about US. Why don't you get this?

Another thing is, go out in the world and start saying to people of different nationalities how great US is, and people will look at you like crazy. Hate to break it to you guys, but it's not fun to be American in the world. I'm sure most of you that have actually traveled outside of the touristy places are aware of the bad image US has abroad. In touristy places Americans are still loved cause of the money we possess. But hey, what is fair is fair. All other nationalities take it out on us the same way we do it on them. In fact, it's even worse. They say that Irish are one of the US' closest buddies, but oh my was I surprised by the number of jokes and ridicules of US even there. And that's just good old Ireland.

America is beautiful. It's the richest and most powerful country in the world. But let's leave it there, and remember that America is only one of 220 countries in the world. 1/220. Americans are barely 5% of the world population. 5/100. Take off your glasses and educate yourself more about the world rather than saying that you already have the best education because quality of life is not about the convenience, it's not about the money, you live in this world with PEOPLE, PEOPLE, and PEOPLE. It's the people among us, that most of all, contribute to the quality of living in the society. You're not living on an isolated island, you are living within a society. And how are Americans compared to other societies? If you're really curious, turn off the TV, turn off the laptop, and buy a ticket. There's only one true way to find out. I dared myself to experience a Latin culture from the inside-out. I live in Colombia and I've never been more happier than now. I've never been more critical of US than now. People here are amazingly warm and you just want to live among people here. Families and friends are so close. Americans are so cold and egocentric and when you get on your own you want to live far away from other people and your family in the suburbs. But still in all, I'm going to return home. But I disagree to say that I'm going to US because of the highest quality of life. I'm going back home perhaps because of the same reason why so many immigrants from all over the world come here. There are a lot of cool things here, most important of them--good money.

I hear ya. It's all really a matter of perspective -- where you are in life, what you're looking for -- which determines what's "the best." Each country has good and bad things to offer -- the key is taking the good, and eliminating or severely reducing the impact of the bad. Make the world your buffet.

Having said that, saying the U.S. is "the best" (in education, in food, in race relations, in convenience, etc) after sex touring around the Philippines or Brazil or backpacking through Europe is pretty damn ignorant.

Having lived abroad as an adult in South America, Western Europe, Eastern Europe, and Asia in excess of 8 years now, I can say emphatically that what I like most about the US is the ease with which one can make money there (given time and effort of course).

If you can take this positive of the US with you while living abroad, then voila, you get to experience the joy of combining a steady US income with the treasures that the world has to offer.
06-30-2010 04:30 AM
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Whoremonger Offline
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Post: #27
RE: American the Grim Truth
I will tell you now as a foreigner that the perception of the US is very different to the one that Americans think we tend to have. Americans in general are not well liked and its a stigma you have to overcome as an individual Im afraid. Not everyone is going to be shallow and generalise all the time, but Americans are not well liked. For people who tend to be so highly educated, they are seen as extremely ignorant and close minded. While some are good people, many are loud and arrogant to the extreme and do you no favours. Constantly complaining about something or being critical of the country they are visiting. Not to mention loud. Christ, we can hear you guys coming a mile away sometimes.

And Jesus, the women? Fucking hell, no wonder you guys complain so much. Loudmouthed, opinionated ball busters. They do fuck easy though, and when I was backpacking our ears used to prick up when we heard the accent. An American girl out of her own backyard was an easy lay in my experience. The sad thing is that these cunts have become the template for the rest of western women and beyond. Its because you not only give us McDonalds, but you give us the majority of our TV too.

The only thing that currently saves the US economy from total collapse is that the USD is the currency of choice. There is more and more pressure to move away from that and once that happens the USD is going to tank. Its a matter of time unless the US moves towards overcoming its debt problem, which is never going to happen so long as you have that fuckin commie in power. Its going no where and its only getting worse: http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/30/news/eco.../index.htm

Now this is ONE article showing the growing unease the rest of the world has with the USD

Quote:New York (CNN) -- The dollar is an unreliable international currency and should be replaced by a more stable system, the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs said in a report released Tuesday.
The use of the dollar for international trade came under increasing scrutiny when the U.S. economy fell into recession. "The dollar has proved not to be a stable store of value, which is a requisite for a stable reserve currency," the report said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/06/...oscCsruG1f

Now like I say, if they move away from the USD, the US WILL see a drop in their credit rating like we saw in Greece. What makes you think that the US is immune from the same problem? Have a look at the numbers! Your debt levels are so high the rest of the world wakes up in a cold sweat every night.

The USD could very well tank, and if that happens, the US and the rest of the world is going to be plunged into depression like we have never seen before. The difference is, this time round, the US has a highly reduced manufacturing sector. Your entire economy is based on consumption. And if your credit rating is worth shit, what is going to pull your arse out of the fire? There is no bailout for an economy the size of the USA's!

Now for those of you who have traveled, especially to the poorer countries, you know that people are used to getting by on less. The first world countries, the USA's, UK's, Irelands, Canada's, Australias...these are the places where the people are going to feel it the most. We are not used to living in poverty and we take for granted the daily luxuries we have. Out of all those places though, where do you think the worst of it will be?

Read this again:

Quote:Whether the collapse is gradual or gut-wrenchingly sudden, the results will be chaos, civil strife and fascism. Let’s face it: the United States is like the former Yugoslavia – a collection of mutually antagonistic cultures united in name only. You’ve got your own version of the Taliban: right-wing Christian fundamentalists who actively loathe the idea of secular Constitutional government. You’ve got a vast intellectual underclass that has spent the last few decades soaking up Fox News and talk radio propaganda, eager to blame the collapse on Democrats, gays and immigrants. You’ve got a ruthless ownership class that will use all the means at its disposal to protect its wealth from the starving masses.

On top of all that you’ve got vast factory farms, sprawling suburbs and a truck-based shipping system, all of it entirely dependent on oil that is about to become completely unaffordable. And you’ve got guns. Lots of guns. In short: the United States is about to become a very unwholesome place to be.

We are potentially looking at worldwide economic collapse here. The blog is alarmist, but should that happen, the US is one of the LAST places I would want to be. There is a very real chance we are headed for a severe economic depression worldwide and with the current levels of debt it could be worse than the last one.

If you think the troubles in Greece and Spain are light years away you need to get out from under that rock.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2010 01:08 PM by Whoremonger.)
06-30-2010 01:05 PM
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kindredspirit Offline
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Post: #28
RE: American the Grim Truth
Whoremonger, I'm as critical of the United States as anyone, but I'll just add a few things....

I personally don't get along with a lot of English guys. A lot of the ones I've met are as redneck as any good old boy from the American South, and the ones who Ryan Air/EasyJet it throughout Europe tend to be the scum of earth in the eyes of local women throughout Eastern Europe and beyond.

Also, I haven't had very good experiences with Aussies either. They remind me of American frat boys after having guzzled down a keg of beer. The ones I've met also seem to exhibit a lot of racist tendencies towards aborigines and Asians.

As you can see, we could go on and on here, but let's not just pick on Americans as a people and take individuals for who they are. Because if you generalize and stereotype-- we could rip apart our favored strawmen all night long.


As for America entering doomsday -- it may very well be so.

But say we reach ULTIMATE DOOMSDAY. International trade haulted. Food supplies cut. Energy supplies secured only by the might of arms. War among nations.

The US is self-sufficient in food. It has the most effective armed forces in the world, ready to secure energy supplies throughout the world. It has the capacity to churn out defense armaments at a fantastic rate a la WWII and The Cold War. It has a huge growing population to conscript into the army and hammer down its enemies with. It's geographically isolated, so difficult to conquer with the US controlling the seas and air.

In other words, if you expect world chaos, then the US may not be that bad a place to be in.

And to be honest, a world war to kill off all the excess men and starve the women might be just what nature ordered.
06-30-2010 01:36 PM
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oldnemesis Offline
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Post: #29
RE: American the Grim Truth
(06-29-2010 11:36 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  oldnemisis,
Have you really seen more american tourists anywhere you have been lately?

I just got back from Jamaica one month ago, and Hedonism II was filled up with American tourists. True, this is not your typical coach potato vacation, but still.

A club I've been to while being in Moscow in May had around 20 Americans, which really surprised locals I was with. Especially if you consider the pain of getting Russian visa, an expensive and long overseas flight and obvious jetlag.

One of my skydiving lady friends just got back from her six weeks trip to Guatemala and back, going alone on her bike.

On the other side, I'm sure there is a bunch of couch potatoes who have never been outside their Shitholeville, KY. But my glass is half-full.

Indeed, it is less this year because of the economy and people concentrating on savings and cutting off spending. It is easier for us as I'm basically traveling for $10 everywhere using miles and getting two free companion certificates a year, but vast majority of people do not have such luxury and prefer to put money into savings now.

$120,000 for 4 years is a lot. What university/major? Is it what you have paid, or is it total which includes state aid?

Quote:And you have the freedom to have a drink and a smoke at the same time.

Well, at the same time as someone who does not smoke I appreciate the freedom to have a drink and not have to inhale smoke fumes at the same time.

But as I said, I can write the same article about every country I've been to. As I like to say, if you think U.S. government is shitty and bureaucratic, try to deal with Russian government. You will love U.S. government after that.
06-30-2010 05:01 PM
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thekiller Offline
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Post: #30
RE: American the Grim Truth
I don't think Americans are under any illusions that we're popular overseas. Our neighbors in the Great White North are some of the worst complainers. A lot of it is deserved, but let's face it a lot of it is also Envy at American largesse, and propaganda from poorly run countries that need a scapegoat. Besides, if everyone was happy with us, we'd definetly be doing something wrong. While I like to complain about the Country I love, I do get tired of some of the familiar old critiques of the US from Europe, which tends to be elitist.

Don't confuse the Average American's disinterest in foreign countries with lack of intelligence, we just have screwed up priorities here. I will apologise as an American for us exporting our crappy feminism to the rest of the World though, but we did save you all from the Nazis.

And Whoremonger, I agree the USD is in peril, particularly under this administration, but I don't think the US will be a horrible place to weather a World Collapse. Kindredspirit makes some good points about our food capability and after the sheeple pass from lack of basic services the remainder will do quite fine.

G, I gotta say if a fair number of smokers wouldn't have been such pricks it wouldn't be banned everywhere. Just 6 months ago I was at a concert in Seattle of all places, and I kindly asked the couple behind to stop smoking as it was bothering my girl, the guy was like "it's a fucking concert man!". He has no idea how close he came to getting a full tilt punch in the nuts (he was a tier up behind me), and then as he bent over in pain, getting his head grabbed and thrown off that tier.
06-30-2010 07:27 PM
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Jim Kirk Offline
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Post: #31
RE: American the Grim Truth
I think I overestimated the posters to the Roosh forum . .

How about them Yankees, BTW.
06-30-2010 08:01 PM
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thegmanifesto Offline
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Post: #32
RE: American the Grim Truth
"I appreciate the freedom to have a drink and not have to inhale smoke fumes at the same time.'

You could in the past. Just go outside, or to a place that didn't allow smoking.

"I was at a concert in Seattle of all places"

What concert?

Any half way decent concert should have been filled with weed smoke along with cigarette smoke.

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(This post was last modified: 06-30-2010 09:59 PM by thegmanifesto.)
06-30-2010 09:59 PM
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OGNorCal707 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: American the Grim Truth
"Any half way decent concert should have been filled with weed smoke along with cigarette smoke."

- MPM


Agreed.
06-30-2010 10:52 PM
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thekiller Offline
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Post: #34
RE: American the Grim Truth
(06-30-2010 09:59 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  "I appreciate the freedom to have a drink and not have to inhale smoke fumes at the same time.'

You could in the past. Just go outside, or to a place that didn't allow smoking.

"I was at a concert in Seattle of all places"

What concert?

Any half way decent concert should have been filled with weed smoke along with cigarette smoke.
I'm sure there will be haters but it was Depeche Mode at the Key Arena. Actually over the years I don't think I've ever smelled weed at an indoor concert in a Seattle Venue, outside venues though Bigtime. Bumbershoot Music Festival should probably be called Smoke Weed and walk around mostly Naked day. It's too bad the girls are pasty, chunky, angry, and most likely lesbian.
07-01-2010 10:25 AM
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IshGibbor Offline
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Post: #35
RE: American the Grim Truth
I am not one to agree that America is a terrible place to live, that it is going down the tubes or that there is something wrong with us. I've lived in Brazil, spent a summer in Jamaica living by the beach, writing, enjoying the clubs and experiencing the "four hour work week" everyone on this thread seems to idolize. I was quite bored.

This is not to say that travel is not good for the soul, on the contrary it is a healing that one should go through quite often;however, I am not one to fall victim that the grass is greener on the other side. "Where ever you go, there you are"

Yes, I am American. I am arrogant, egotistical, narcissistic, very competitive, self absorbed, sometimes compassionate (most of the time when it suits my interest), loud and I believe I am the best even when I am not. Does that classify all Americans? I would hope you would believe it doesn't. Is that all there is to my personality? The number of friends I have would say otherwise. Is that what I displayed about my character while I traveled abroad? Maybe, who knows.

We can debate on what country is the best ad-infinitum but I will say for me I could not live anywhere else but the United States. The convince factor is one (Amazon.com, Netflix), the entertainment is another, women are easy, lots of libraries to pursue my intellectual pursuits, supplements are readily available, I could make a lot of money here, I experience a host of different cultures, S.E.C. football and NBA basketball, awesome food, they speak English here, there is a strong presence of African-American culture (my personal favorite), best music in the world, best movies in the world, best athletes in the world (we would be #1 in soccer if all of our best athletes didn't do every other sport but it). From Jerry Falwell to Dwayne Wade, I love being American.

There is also a legacy here that is not found in the rest of the world. Whether if it is the struggle of women's rights, African slaves that eventually lead to a black man in the white house despite the legacy of white supremacy, Babe Ruth hitting more home runs then the combined total of all except two MLB teams, Muhammad Ali beating George Foreman despite nobody (not even his own family) believing he could do it, Selma, Hay market riots, bank bailouts, The Sopranos, Denzel Washington, Crips and Bloods, Yankees vs. Redsox, Robert Horry's clutch shot making skills, Gay rights activists, Bill Clinton's blow job, Code Pink, Cindy Sheehan, racial profiling, Michael Jackson, Y2K, Notorious B.I.G., Nas Illmatic, The Great Gatsby, Ernest Hemingway, The Godfather trilogy, I can go on and on.

This is not to say that any other country does not have an amazing story to tell but I for one know America has one of the greatest of them and we are still very young.

That is not to say I won't find things to hate in NY or LA but it is the USA to my dying day.

Ish
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2010 10:27 PM by IshGibbor.)
07-01-2010 12:22 PM
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Jim Kirk Offline
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Post: #36
RE: American the Grim Truth
IshGibbor said:

"""Whether if it is the struggle of women's rights, African slaves that eventually lead to a black man in the white house despite the legacy of white supremacy, Babe Ruth hitting more home runs then the combined total of all except two MLB teams, Muhammad Ali beating George Foreman despite nobody (not even his own family) believing he could do it, Selma, Hay market riots, bank bailouts, The Sopranos, Denzel Washington, Crips and Bloods, Yankees vs. Redsox, Robert Horry's clutch shot making skills, Gay rights activists, Bill Clinton's blow job, Code Pink, Cindy Sheehan, racial profiling, Michael Jackson, Y2K, Notorious B.I.G., Nas Illmatic, The Great Gatsby, Ernest Hemingway, The Godfather trilogy, I can go on and on"""

To that extent what you mean is to have been an American over the last 50 years is to have had a 'chip in the big game.' By that I mean just about everything in the world was led or came out of the USA in one or another shape and form - but unless you are a 'game player' like someone trying to keep Vietnam from going Communist - not because you hate socialism and love the Vietnamese people but because you want to keep the Michelin owned rubber plants operating because rubber can be produced cheaply in Vietnam. As a citizen who enjoys the good life, food, family, PEOPLE, whatever - the game playing does not do you much good except get you, or your children drafted into the army. Yes, it makes me proud to know we put a man on the moon - but it does not put food on my table.

Just a thought . . .
07-02-2010 11:16 PM
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Roosh Offline
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Post: #37
RE: American the Grim Truth
I wanted to vouch for what Jim Kirk said about fruits and vegetables. In South America they go bad incredibly quick. If I buy produce I have to use it within 3 or 4 days, and in a climate like Brazil's, they have to be stored in the fridge. In the U.S. I can leave a tomato on the counter for 10 days and it still appears nice and red, even if it was shipped from thousands of miles away. American breads are indestructible as well, and can take weeks to mold. I like how the food here lasts longer, but I know I'm ingesting more chemicals as a result.

We have to be careful about comparing countries and deciding what is "better". It totally depends on your values. For the average American, Brazil would be an awful place to live, but for a single man in his 30's who like Latinas, exotic fruits, and a laid-back lifestyle, it's far superior. This is why in my recent post comparing Colombia, Argentina, and Brazil, I rated them on several factors. No country is going to have it all.

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07-04-2010 05:32 PM
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hydrogonian Offline
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Post: #38
RE: American the Grim Truth
(06-30-2010 01:36 PM)kindredspirit Wrote:  Whoremonger, I'm as critical of the United States as anyone, but I'll just add a few things....

I personally don't get along with a lot of English guys. A lot of the ones I've met are as redneck as any good old boy from the American South, and the ones who Ryan Air/EasyJet it throughout Europe tend to be the scum of earth in the eyes of local women throughout Eastern Europe and beyond.

Also, I haven't had very good experiences with Aussies either. They remind me of American frat boys after having guzzled down a keg of beer. The ones I've met also seem to exhibit a lot of racist tendencies towards aborigines and Asians.

I agree on both points, but I try to take them as individuals. I've met a lot of cool English guys, and a lot of them are very cultured/urbane. However, a lot of them are the type that has no class while tearing up eastern Europe. I guess it depends on where and how they were raised, like anyone else.

Aussies tend to be even bigger rednecks, and as you said, frat boys. At the same time, they seem to be easier to read and so the annoying ones can be avoided easily. I think the more homogeneous culture breeds a lot of homogeneous personalities. English people tend to hide their colors better.

(06-30-2010 01:36 PM)kindredspirit Wrote:  As you can see, we could go on and on here, but let's not just pick on Americans as a people and take individuals for who they are. Because if you generalize and stereotype-- we could rip apart our favored strawmen all night long.

I understand why Americans are stereotyped. There are enough of us abroad that absolutely meet the stereotype to make them at least a bit accurate, and there are a lot of crazy Americans abroad. That compared with the sheer volume of Americans abroad makes it unavoidable. Then you consider our unpopular politics, and we become very easy targets for frustration.

However, I expect the same courtesy abroad that I give anyone else. That I'll be judged as an individual. I give no leeway for undeserved impolite behavior toward me just because I'm an American. I've noticed that the English tend to be amongst the most vocal of america haters. I'm amazed at the comments made in my direct presence sometimes about Americans. When I hear that, I just move that person to the 'delete' file in my mind as someone who is a bit to unintelligent or poorly cultured to be taken seriously. I treat them according to their level of class.

Apart from a massive natural disaster or act of terrorism which obliterates a large portion of crucial infrastructure, or the loss of a primary source of oil supply, the USA will not collapse. When your the market maker, you don't have to worry about the market.

The largest threat to any country, and the world as a whole, is overpopulation. Stop breeding, bitches.
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2010 07:14 PM by hydrogonian.)
07-04-2010 07:04 PM
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hydrogonian Offline
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RE: American the Grim Truth
(06-29-2010 10:04 PM)thekiller Wrote:  I didn't realize the riots in Greece or the massive debt in Europe leading to the near collapse of the EU was "conjecture".

Thats not conjecture. That is taking a very complex economic situation, caused by recent grand economic policy(the creation of the EU inclusive of countries like Spain, Greece and Italy which don't have the economy necessary to survive on the Euro) and somehow making broad statements and conclusions about how much better or worse those countries are based on a very specific situation. I guarantee that those countries will be here after this all dies down, and their quality of life will continue.

Your previous "caused by lack of work ethic" (not quoted) comment was pure conjecture and hyperbole. Unless you know a lot more about the situation then most of us here, and aren't just making that statement based on a mixture of Fox news pundit opinion and personal bias against socialist economies, then you have no basis to make such a comment. Your commenting on a complex situation that goes way beyond a "cant get something for nothing" quip. Every country has massive debt. Its a debt based world, pure and simple. Thats the way the world economy works. Its the confidence in the debt (the credit rating and GDP) that matters.

At least the people in the Greece had the balls to riot. The lack of action by people here, after the banking theft, is shameful. The politicians there know they have to answer to the people. The politicians here know they can get away with anything, because Americans are too pacified by the media and consumer culture to care. We should be embarrassed by the rioting in Greece. We had just as much, if not much more, reason to riot here.

(06-29-2010 10:04 PM)thekiller Wrote:  As for the quality of life in those other 1st World nations your so fond of, I don't doubt they have great things to recommend them. I would also say as an American we can have just as high a quality of life here IF WE SO CHOOSE.

There is a large cultural component missing here, that greatly adds to the quality of life, that is present in Europe. You cant choose to have that here. At our historical root, we are a puritanical/protestant work colony. This, along with the consumer and media driven culture, greatly affects the type of culture and quality of life that we have in America today, at any price.

(06-29-2010 10:04 PM)thekiller Wrote:  I don't think it's conjecture or learned propaganda to believe you can't get something for nothing.

Yes, it is. Because socialist economies are not "something for nothing" economies. Thats not how they work. What you are quoting is pure baseless propaganda meant to reinforce support for owner class economic policy. Again, every country operates off of debt. So, if we're all in debt, how can one country be "something for nothing" and another country not? The only difference is in the way the debt is allocated. Here, we tend to go into debt more for policies that make the rich richer and for the military. There, they tend to go into debt to make the quality of life for everyone better.

However, unfortunately, the situation to which you refer is more caused by the fact that there isn't enough GDP in the poorer EU countries to bring in enough Euros. The need to get out of the EU and revert back to their own currencies. That would solve much of the current debt trouble. But again, its a complex situation. For all I know, there could be many financial obligations already in place to make a reversion very difficult. I cant make sweeping statements about the situation either.

I could get much deeper into this but don't have the energy. this isn't a political forum, but all of the subtle political shout-outs and jabs will cause threads to be derailed. Although, I do realize that the nature of the thread is political. I guess I agree with lavinci, and stand by my comments that sweeping defensive statements aren't the way to go. Maybe Roosh should add a political section, or else some guys can go to other forums to make political jabs (Im not trying to be nasty-I really think the politics here distracts). There are hordes of politicos on other forums that don't mind debating and defending. At the same time, I don't think anyone should have to take political jabs here (conservative or liberal) here in silence either. Hence, a specific section is needed or abstinence from the commentary.
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2010 09:01 PM by hydrogonian.)
07-04-2010 08:09 PM
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kingkong Offline
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Post: #40
RE: American the Grim Truth
On the vacation days thing he misses that in most of these high vacation day countries the long vacations are mandated by law. People would very likely choose to work more and earn more money given the choice, but they are denied that choice. In fact, I've read that much of this mandated European vacation time actually ends up used to moonlight for extra cash. I assume people would rather not moonlight and would prefer to work their main jobs.

I'm sure it works out great if you're upper middle class (the Euros he's meeting in Thailand), and sucks if you're a typical stiff.
07-05-2010 12:50 AM
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thekiller Offline
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Post: #41
RE: American the Grim Truth
(07-04-2010 08:09 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  I could get much deeper into this but don't have the energy. this isn't a political forum, but all of the subtle political shout-outs and jabs will cause threads to be derailed. Although, I do realize that the nature of the thread is political. I guess I agree with lavinci, and stand by my comments that sweeping defensive statements aren't the way to go. Maybe Roosh should add a political section, or else some guys can go to other forums to make political jabs (Im not trying to be nasty-I really think the politics here distracts). There are hordes of politicos on other forums that don't mind debating and defending. At the same time, I don't think anyone should have to take political jabs here (conservative or liberal) here in silence either. Hence, a specific section is needed or abstinence from the commentary.

Actually I don't think we need a political thread here, it's really unnecessary. I normally don't comment on this kind of thing because conservatives and liberals aren't going to change each others minds at this point in time. I just get tired of some of the elitist whining about America. I'm not going to waste time doing point, counter-point so we can agree to disagree hydro.
07-06-2010 10:53 AM
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Entropy4 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: American the Grim Truth
kindredspirit Wrote:Most of them thought I was bullshitting them and eventually stopped talking to me.

Those that actually believed me didn't want to hear it anymore because it made them feel bad.

I'm slowly going through this right now. I just became mobile last year, and over the course of the last 12 months, my old US corporate friends are dropping off the map, one by one. Either they don't want to hear about it, or we simply have nothing to talk about any more. Their highlight of the last year was the "Lost" Series Finale and a 2-day trip to Atlantic City. Whereas I have stories that involve a bar fight in Madrid over cocaine and a FCB game or a riot breaking out at a concert in Buenos Aires where I almost broke my foot. And those are some of the more BORING examples. So yeah, any commonalities we once shared are quickly going out the window.

The only friends I'm still very close with are either 1) self-employed, 2) have lived abroad and plan on living abroad again, or 3) not American.

It kind of sucks.

-----------

As for the whole thread here... I'm with Roosh. There are more than a million valid criticisms of the United States (and the article brings up many). But there are a million valid criticisms of any country. It really comes down to what you value and how you want to live your life. To my surprise, I actually found myself missing the US a lot after I was out of it for 7-8 months straight. There are still a lot of things I don't like about it, but for whatever reason, I can't really see myself spending my entire life in another country. Maybe that will change. Maybe it won't.

And I agree with whoever said it... Brits are JUST as bad as Americans, and probably worse in some ways (bunch of fucking drunks). I really don't care for England at all. And yeah, I always get a "frat boy" vibe from Aussies... although Aussie women are so fucking easy to lay, it's a joke. But anyway, I could seriously lodge a complaint or two with every country I've been to. So there's no point, really.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2010 01:14 PM by Entropy4.)
07-12-2010 01:04 PM
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AlphaQup2nite Offline
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Post: #43
RE: American the Grim Truth
The simple point is that countries will always have their pros and cons. The rest is a matter of personal opinion and personal values. We could devote time to discussing the bad shit about everywhere, but honestly most of it is third hand or second hand at best. It is simply impossible to avoid drawing comparisons in such a way to make an indvidual's favored country to seem better. WE are ALL biased. No need to get offended or flame or whatever. Its just not a topic for discussion in polite society for these reasons.
07-13-2010 03:33 AM
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eidoos77 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: American the Grim Truth
(06-28-2010 07:29 PM)Brandon E Wrote:  I didn't even finish reading but I thought a lot of it was nonsense. Of corse our schools are expensive, they are the best in the world. I don't take any perscription drugs. Yeah, maybe a little about the food, but I eat healthy.
I released my mind from that country years ago. But you are right they have great schools. Eidoos77. DodgyAngelDodgy

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07-18-2010 10:23 PM
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oldnemesis Offline
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Post: #45
RE: American the Grim Truth
Let me summarize some positive information about United States. Personally I am a big fun of Mike's Clause (russian). In short it says that "during first two years in a new country you may form your opinion, but you should keep it to yourself and not post it everywhere - because you will feel ashamed later. Same is true for those who lived in the country over ten years". The rationale is obvious - you are used to do things one way, and when everyone is doing the same things differently it makes you uncomfortable. You have to constantly remind yourself about it, your mind gets irritated and bursts it into "how stupid they are". After two years you understand the logic behind it, get used to do things the same way, and now it does not irritate you anymore. After ten years you are so used to do it that way that you simply cannot understand how everyone else could live doing it differently, and - see above.

Saying so, I have lived here almost five years now, so I still can summarize good things about USA:

1. Government. This may sound cynical, but the USA has one of the best governments in the world. Sure, there is a lot of issues, but if you compare it to other real (not mythical) countries, of similar size, you will see it yourself. It still amazes me how easy and convenient the system is set up. Examples? In Russia to register your car in department of motor vehicles you need to arrive in person to a specific department (conveniently located in a different part of city), and spend several hours in line going to window A, where they ask you to visit window B, get a piece of paper and bring it to window A. Then you go to window B, which is closed for lunch, then window C (which only works from 12pm to 3pm) which immediately refers you to window D (which only works from 10am to 12pm), and once you come next day they find our that window C made a mistake and you have to do back to window B. Each window has a separate line, and if you manage to spend less than three days doing so, consider yourself a very successful person. Of course for those who do not have three days to spend, there are companies, conveniently managed by the department boss or his wife/son, which will make it happen in two hours. For a nice fee, obviously. Everyone who went through the hassle to get Russian visa, and went through the visa registration procedures in Russia can vouch for that. Getting U.S. permanent residency required filling a form, submitting it online and going to an interview once. Compare with experience with getting permanent residency in Thailand. Note the "Immigration is open for applications from about mid-December until the last working day of the year. Only two weeks." Isn't it amazing?

2. Roads. Quality and safety of local roads is very impressive. While Scandinavian countries have similar or better roads, I do not know any other country which has a road network of similar size and quality. Typically in a foreign country the tourist roads are good, but try to get to some remote village, and you may need a tow truck (or even helicopter) to get back. Road services are also very convenient and make traveling the pleasure, not the challenge like in some other countries.

3. Goods availability. Even in California Bay Area with its 9.25% sales tax they are significantly cheaper than in Russia or Europe. Usually the same stuff which costs N USD + tax here, costs at least N EUR + VAT in Europe, and VAT is rarely below 15%. Every time I go to Europe, I am always asked to bring something ranging from iPad to some motorcycle gear, which somehow tends to cost 3x the U.S. price there.

4. Recreation opportunities. Not only there is a pretty large number of national and state parks, but they are in a good condition, with working restrooms and even showers. While there is a lot of breathtaking views in every country around the world, the maintenance issues are often preventing people to visit them.

5. Medicine. While it is expensive, it is worth it. I personally know people who came to USA for medical treatment, from the countries where health care was free but it would take them too long to get it. European health care is excellent when you have a sore throat. When you need MRI, cancer treatment or non-emergent surgery, things change dramatically. In Moscow waiting list for MRI is 4 months, and fundraisers for cancer treatments are very common. Yes, the health care is free, and the government does not refuse treatment - they just put you in the list, and if you do not die from cancer in two years, you will get your treatment. Here the quality and availability are one of the best in the world. Affordability - not exactly, but still majority of the population can afford it. I would even speculate that everyone can if they have their priorities right - I personally know several dudes who are active skydivers (not a really cheap sport) and go out twice a week, but claim they are "too poor" to afford health insurance. Sucks to be them if they ever have medical issue.

6. Business opportunity. There is not a lot of countries who are more business-friendly. Very few restrictions, and reasonable licensing requirements. Favorable ownership terms even if you are not a citizen. If you want to start your business in Russia, prepare to pay a lot in bribes to everyone, from fire inspector to tax authorities. In Thailand you cannot own more than 50% of the business if you are not Thai.

7. Employment opportunity. Being "employment at will", the employers typically do not hesitate hiring a person they think they need right now as they know they can lay him off when not needed. In Europe it is typically more complicated, and generally much harder to lay off someone as the company has to bear more costs (like unemployment payments). Especially when you are a pregnant woman, who cannot be laid off in Russia for three (!) years. If this sounds good, imagine how difficult is for her to find a job. Nobody wants to hire her, being unable to lay her off. Same for women who just got married, as employers think they are about to start making babies.

8. Housing. Same as employment, in France when someone is being evicted - even for non-payment - they must be given something like two months notice, and some categories (like women with children) cannot be evicted until alternate housing is available. As a result, renting in France requires some guarantees from your employer, bank, huge deposits - and you are still paying more to compensate your landlord for those who decided they're too poor to pay rent.

9. Courts and legal system. Compare it to corrupt court systems of Russia or Latin America, who generally favor those making more money, and every judge comes with a price tag. Even when it is not the case, the court decisions against the government (especially Supreme Court) can be counted on fingers. U.S. Supreme Court pretty often rules against the government, and generally the legal system is much closer to fairness comparing to every other system I am familiar with. Personally I won a traffic ticket in an U.S. court in a questionable case just because the officer did not submit some required evidence which I didn't even ask for, but the judge did. In Russia I somehow "got" a speeding ticket when I actually was out of country - but the judge did not consider any evidence I brought, saying that she had spoken with the officer's boss (!) yesterday, and he told her that the ticket was valid, and this was enough evidence for her.

10. Police. In Russia a typical driver is stopped by traffic police at least once a week for a "document check" (often they also search your trunk). Often people are asked to pay "fines" immediately for violations they did not commit. I know some people who had similar experience in Mexico. In Moscow people are stopped by police officers on foot so often that pretty much everyone carries passports, or can be detained to be released later - in exchange of some money, of course. As you can guess, all of this is in the name of "national security".

11. Entertainment. No matter what kind of recreation activity you are interested in, there is a lot of options in USA. I am an experienced skydiver, and there are more dropzones in the state of California than in the whole Europe. They are also better organized, and have better equipment.

12. Food. Pretty much every cousine from all the world is available in USA, and unlike Moscow, you won't spend your monthly income by going to upscale Japanese restarant. A lot of opportunities for cooking, and all kind of food can be found - from crappy and cheap and full with trans-fats and hormones to super-organic (and expensive).

13. People. The general population is very friendly here. Several times people helped me in such situations nobody in Russia would even think about - like operating a parking meter (this was funny, I carried $500 in hundreds as I always did in Russia and of course damn thing only took quarters which I never seen before) or explaining how to write a check. They apologize if they bumped into you instead of typical Russian "what the fuck are you doing on MY way?" attitude. They are more trustworthy as well.

I am sure the list is not complete, and I will add more things.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2010 11:31 PM by oldnemesis.)
07-19-2010 11:27 PM
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Entropy4 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: American the Grim Truth
Oldnemesis: Thanks for posting. It's always good to keep things in perspective and see the other side of the argument. Wink
07-22-2010 12:24 PM
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