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Russian language: no more bullshit
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Secret Offline
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Post: #451
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
Instrumental case: Always when you see the English word WITh or if you don t see it but could insert it. Also often: BY. by what method, with the help of what... Going somewhere by train, cutting something with help of a knife.
Also career or what you identify with. : Working AS a lawyer, an engineer, farmer,.... being a player, a traveller, a reader. And some more cases.
very difficult to explain. Need to get a feeling for it by speaking Russian, reading Russian, listening Russian, radio, TV, videos,... no chance to analyze it each time.
08-18-2016 04:31 AM
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Beijong Offline
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Post: #452
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
(08-17-2016 10:28 PM)Agreddor Wrote:  
(08-17-2016 03:01 PM)Beijong Wrote:  So my tutor and I are going over russian cases now. I find them really difficult.

Can anyone tell me when to use the 6 cases in plain English? Like.. When do I use instrumental for instance? I think of it like "I write with a pencil" but there is so much more than just this simple sentence structure.. And its like that for all cases...

Any grammar pros out there that can lay it on me really easy?

This site is pretty useful.

http://learnrussian.rt.com/grammar-tables/

My advice is to do the grammar exercises your tutor gives you, you'll only get better with practice. I know how frustrating it is learning Russian grammar. Don't be discouraged, keep at it, one day it will pay off.

Hey thanks a lot for the info. Thats a lot of info! I guess I gotta put in my 10,000 hours. And yes, it pays huge dividends, especially when travelling and you're hungry or lost. Helps here too because there is a small Russia / Ukrainian expat community in my city.
08-18-2016 10:21 AM
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Agreddor Offline
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Post: #453
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
(08-18-2016 10:21 AM)Beijong Wrote:  
(08-17-2016 10:28 PM)Agreddor Wrote:  
(08-17-2016 03:01 PM)Beijong Wrote:  So my tutor and I are going over russian cases now. I find them really difficult.

Can anyone tell me when to use the 6 cases in plain English? Like.. When do I use instrumental for instance? I think of it like "I write with a pencil" but there is so much more than just this simple sentence structure.. And its like that for all cases...

Any grammar pros out there that can lay it on me really easy?

This site is pretty useful.

http://learnrussian.rt.com/grammar-tables/

My advice is to do the grammar exercises your tutor gives you, you'll only get better with practice. I know how frustrating it is learning Russian grammar. Don't be discouraged, keep at it, one day it will pay off.

Hey thanks a lot for the info. Thats a lot of info! I guess I gotta put in my 10,000 hours. And yes, it pays huge dividends, especially when travelling and you're hungry or lost. Helps here too because there is a small Russia / Ukrainian expat community in my city.

No problem. What is your native language?
08-18-2016 10:25 AM
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Gopnik Offline
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Post: #454
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
(08-17-2016 03:01 PM)Beijong Wrote:  So my tutor and I are going over russian cases now. I find them really difficult.

Can anyone tell me when to use the 6 cases in plain English? Like.. When do I use instrumental for instance? I think of it like "I write with a pencil" but there is so much more than just this simple sentence structure.. And its like that for all cases...

Any grammar pros out there that can lay it on me really easy?

It seems crazy for your teacher to introduce you to all cases at once. Usually you learn the accusative and/or prepositional first since they are quite straight forward.

(08-18-2016 04:31 AM)Secret Wrote:  Instrumental case: Always when you see the English word WITh or if you don t see it but could insert it. Also often: BY. by what method, with the help of what... Going somewhere by train, cutting something with help of a knife.
Also career or what you identify with. : Working AS a lawyer, an engineer, farmer,.... being a player, a traveller, a reader. And some more cases.
very difficult to explain. Need to get a feeling for it by speaking Russian, reading Russian, listening Russian, radio, TV, videos,... no chance to analyze it each time.

Yeah, you also need to use it after certain verbs e.g стать: я хочу стать актёром (I want to become an actor). Also when the verb быть in the past is followed by a noun: e.g когда я был мальчиком (when I was a kid).

Тот, кто не рискует, тот не пьет шампанского
(This post was last modified: 08-18-2016 10:28 AM by Gopnik.)
08-18-2016 10:26 AM
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Beijong Offline
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Post: #455
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
(08-18-2016 10:26 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  It seems crazy for your teacher to introduce you to all cases at once. Usually you learn the accusative and/or prepositional first since they are quite straight forward.

(08-18-2016 04:31 AM)Secret Wrote:  Instrumental case: Always when you see the English word WITh or if you don t see it but could insert it. Also often: BY. by what method, with the help of what... Going somewhere by train, cutting something with help of a knife.
Also career or what you identify with. : Working AS a lawyer, an engineer, farmer,.... being a player, a traveller, a reader. And some more cases.
very difficult to explain. Need to get a feeling for it by speaking Russian, reading Russian, listening Russian, radio, TV, videos,... no chance to analyze it each time.

Yeah, you also need to use it after certain verbs e.g стать: я хочу стать актёром (I want to become an actor). Also when the verb быть in the past is followed by a noun: e.g когда я был мальчиком (when I was a kid).

Interesting.. thats a good peice of info. I very rarely use ctatb but I read it frequently.

Also, she's introducing me to all of them so I get a sense of when each case is used. I'm not memorizing endings all at once, just trying to figure out when each case is appropriate to use and why a name like Anna could be Anne, Annbi, Annom, etc depending on her role in the sentence

(08-18-2016 10:25 AM)Agreddor Wrote:  No problem. What is your native language?

I'm Canadian, so I speak English and learn French at an early age but I'm only bilingual in it, not perfectly fluent
(This post was last modified: 08-18-2016 10:50 AM by Beijong.)
08-18-2016 10:49 AM
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Phazlenut Offline
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Post: #456
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
How does one draw a distinction between the merely absurd and the positively inane?

If you were being face controlled by a bouncer and you wanted to let him know it was ridiculous to think someone dressed up nicely would lower the tenor of discussion inside, what is a good way to convey that sentiment without being insulting?

In English we could say something like "C'mon man, I didn't put these shoes on to make trouble" and get the point across without being insulting. What is appropriate phrasing for that in Russian?
09-26-2016 04:12 AM
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Road_Less_Taken Offline
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Post: #457
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
Is it possible to learn Russian without learning cyrillic or how to write?

I always find speaking so much more useful than knowing how to read and write. I'm wondering to start whether I should just watch a ton of basic videos in Russian and practice talking (like a baby). Or should I take a more conventional approach?
10-10-2016 01:21 PM
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sterling_archer Offline
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Post: #458
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
You can learn to read cyrillic in a couple of days. Ok, I am speaking from my experience, so I am not sure about others.
When I learnt Russian cyrillic, that also came with advantage for reading Serbian cyrillic which is very similar, as you know our neighbors Serbs, use both latin and cyrillic alphabet.
10-10-2016 01:31 PM
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ElFlaco Away
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Post: #459
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
(10-10-2016 01:21 PM)Road_Less_Taken Wrote:  Is it possible to learn Russian without learning cyrillic or how to write?

Any language can be learned without its writing system. But keep in mind:

1. As an adult, avoiding the writing system entirely may actually retard the development of your speaking skills. Having something visual you can latch on to often helps things sink in and helps you see patterns more clearly. The downside is that written language is a bit (sometimes, a lot) different from spoken language, so there's an everpresent danger of ending up speaking like people write. I see this regularly with students. Also, there's a natural tendency to use 'spelling pronunciations' once you have the written form available, rather than working off what you actually hear.

2. It's nearly impossible to find teachers, schools, programs or self-study materials that work only on speaking and listening skills. Teachers (especially native speakers) and textbooks sometimes remember how they themselves learned the written form of the language in school and confuse this with what a second-language learner needs.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2016 03:01 PM by ElFlaco.)
10-10-2016 02:06 PM
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invictusiii Offline
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Post: #460
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
I find that it's much easier to acquire new vocabulary in Russian when I see the word written out. Of you need to know how to read cyrillic for this. In my experience it isn't that hard at all. Probably the easiest part of learning the language. Seriously a week or two with some flash cards for 30 min a day and you're golden. I've been able to do this for both Russian and Farsi.
10-10-2016 02:06 PM
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Beirut Offline
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Post: #461
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
I could use some advice.

I have already done pimsleur and michel thomas a while back. They were a good intro (specially michel thomas) but im still at the beginner level and could not have a conversation beyond first two exchanges at all.

Anyway i have memrise and duolingo now and the book "new penguin russian course" for grammar.

Im thinking of starting the book+ memrise simultaneously and when i finish those transition into watching videos and speaking with russian speakers.

Is that a good plan as far as timeline?

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10-10-2016 02:15 PM
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Beirut Offline
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Post: #462
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
I could use some advice.

I have already done pimsleur and michel thomas a while back. They were a good intro (specially michel thomas) but im still at the beginner level and could not have a conversation beyond first two exchanges at all.

Anyway i have memrise and duolingo now and the book "new penguin russian course" for grammar.

Im thinking of starting the book+ memrise simultaneously and when i finish those transition into watching videos and speaking with russian speakers.

Is that a good plan as far as timeline?

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10-10-2016 02:16 PM
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invictusiii Offline
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Post: #463
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
I think you're in a similar situation as myself. Our problem is that we're trying to learn ins and outs of the language when really we should be speaking as much as possible. Everyone I know that has successfully learned and become fluent in another language has done so through speaking early and often. Find a speaking partner. iTalki is a great place to find other native speakers willing to speak with you. Reading more books and acquiring new vocabulary isn't going to help you as much as using it in real life in real conversation. I'm kind of a hypocrite in this regard because I've been procrastinating but just like daygame, you need to use the language and put what you already know into practice. Speak, fail and speak some more.
10-10-2016 02:42 PM
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edlefou Offline
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Post: #464
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
Beirut,

What worked for me:

1. Daily vocab memorization using Anki (20-30 minutes every morning over coffee)

2. russianpodcast.eu Each episode is 10-13 minutes, all in Russian, but very slow and they repeat the dialogue and explain the difficult words. At first you'll think what the fuck, but keep at it and it slowly starts making more sense.

3. Girlfriend who doesn't speak English. This really accelerated my progress from doing language practice on Skype or in person for a couple hours a week because I got way more practice.
10-10-2016 07:30 PM
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Road_Less_Taken Offline
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Post: #465
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
(10-10-2016 02:06 PM)ElFlaco Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 01:21 PM)Road_Less_Taken Wrote:  Is it possible to learn Russian without learning cyrillic or how to write?

Any language can be learned without its writing system. But keep in mind:

1. As an adult, avoiding the writing system entirely may actually retard the development of your speaking skills. Having something visual you can latch on to often helps things sink in and helps you see patterns more clearly. The downside is that written language is a bit (sometimes, a lot) different from spoken language, so there's an everpresent danger of ending up speaking like people write. I see this regularly with students. Also, there's a natural tendency to use 'spelling pronunciations' once you have the written form available, rather than working off what you actually hear.

2. It's nearly impossible to find teachers, schools, programs or self-study materials that work only on speaking and listening skills. Teachers (especially native speakers) and textbooks sometimes remember how they themselves learned the written form of the language in school and confuse this with what a second-language learner needs.

Good points.

I am kind of in between starting learning now or going there first to see if I like it. I could get a good head start which would really help me. I'm leaning towards this but I guess its good to see the motivation before you.
10-11-2016 11:36 AM
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Beirut Offline
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Post: #466
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
Thanks ed.

Unfortunately no Russian only speaking gf available right now Tongue

Btw the new penguin is an excellent book. If youre tired of trying to self analyze why the words have the endings they do, I highly recommend picking it up as a beginner.

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10-24-2016 09:18 AM
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Davidovich Offline
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Post: #467
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
[quote='Road_Less_Taken' pid='1414893' dateline='1476123676']
Is it possible to learn Russian without learning cyrillic or how to write?


Maybe, somewhat, but why would you want to? Russian alphabet is easy, it's totally phonetic. If you can say it, you can write it.. And if you can write it, you can pronounce it correctly. Russian children do not even have spelling classes. They can spell almost everything they hear. Korean is the same way. There are no spelling classes in those countries. It is a huge advantage for them, compared with English. Take a couple days and apply yourself to learning Cyrillic. After that, you can use a dictionary.
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10-24-2016 11:32 AM
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Beirut Offline
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Post: #468
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
Yeah tbh if you dont have the time/discipline to learn the alphabet then youre not gonna learn a lick of russian anyway.

Alphabet was very easy. The hard stuff comes later

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10-24-2016 11:40 AM
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Vinny Offline
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Post: #469
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
(10-10-2016 02:42 PM)invictusiii Wrote:  Everyone I know that has successfully learned and become fluent in another language has done so through speaking early and often. Find a speaking partner.

I suggest spoofing your tinder to Russian speaking location and getting whatsapps and vibers of girls. Don't lie about your location just say you are planning to come some time soon.

Chat, build comfort, call. Great way to combine your practice and pipeline the city.
I do it with Spanish.
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2016 12:52 PM by Vinny.)
10-24-2016 12:50 PM
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Siberian Offline
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Post: #470
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
If anybody is planning on heading to Novosibirsk, let me know. I'm an American living here and I know my way around, and have friends here that can help you out with logistics.
12-05-2016 04:03 PM
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Zamyatin Offline
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Post: #471
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
Hi all.

First let me say thank you to all of you for your informative posts, and a big Спасибо to our host for starting this thread. It inspired me to learn Russian, and I'm hooked.

My question:

In this day and age of digital technology and word processing, how necessary is to read and write cursive script?

To the regulars here with experience in the FSU, how often do you use it?
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2016 07:13 PM by Zamyatin.)
12-28-2016 07:02 PM
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edlefou Offline
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Post: #472
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
I've tried learning cursive a couple times over the past few years, but I never got very good and it's not necessary. The few times I've had to fill out a form or write something by hand I've used block letters.

Same with typing on a Russian keyboard. I can do it, but I find it easier to type on my smartphone because of autocorrect and suggested spellings.

(12-28-2016 07:02 PM)Zamyatin Wrote:  In this day and age of digital technology and word processing, how necessary is to read and write cursive script?

To the regulars here with experience in the FSU, how often do you use it?
12-29-2016 04:27 AM
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Post: #473
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
Guys I have ADHD and get bored very easily.
I want to hire a good Russian speaker to pipeline for me on VK and Badoo
Where can I find one?

I basically want to give this person access to my Badoo and VK.com account, from there he will talk to the girls for me .

I checked out Fiverr couldn't see anyone doing a gig like this on VK
01-02-2017 09:04 AM
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AkiKinnunen Offline
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Post: #474
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
(12-05-2016 04:03 PM)Siberian Wrote:  If anybody is planning on heading to Novosibirsk, let me know. I'm an American living here and I know my way around, and have friends here that can help you out with logistics.

How is the temperature there by now? -40 C? Ha ha just kidding.
Are you friends with Philip Philocko by chance? Better known for organizing limousine parties Banana
01-04-2017 09:57 AM
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Sooth Offline
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Post: #475
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
I've been chipping away at this whenever I have time. It's very exciting when you start being able to pick out words in sentences that used to be total gibberish.

I heard the word познания and remembered hearing something similar before. I remembered it from Rooshes own Poznan Institute.

On looking, Poznan is a place - but познания (Poznaniya) translates to "knowledge, learning, experience".

How very fitting.
01-10-2017 03:07 AM
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