Possibly the least understood and least studied aspect of game is the frame. Yet, it is probably the most crucial and important, beating out even looks and status. A powerful beast it is, once tamed. It can either be your master, stringing you along helplessly and hopelessly, or be mastered and give you great control and power over a social situation.
I've always thought it was best to study game in "separate" components, seeing how they interact on the female mind, and integrate them only once each component was understood on its own.
Lets dedicate this thread to gaining an understanding of the frame. How to set one up, how to maintain it, how to make it congruent, make it powerful etc.
Post your best tip or insight regarding framing from your own experiences (i.e. not what you heard or read on the internet).
04-28-2013 05:02 AM
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Don't give reasons to women. Just tell them things. And be stone faced and sincere about it. Say it with a straight face. This creates an "authority" frame, they fall into your hoop and follow your lead. Taking your word for it.
This works because if something is said with conviction, it is often automatically assumed right.
I'm continually amazed what you "get away" with while saying things with a "straight face". People expect you to relent, wince or compromise. They look for changes in your body language signaling "you don't really mean it". Disappoint them. Practice this framing technique talking to any woman, even your mother or sister. Notice the difference in their reactions.
Generally, now that I think about it, this technique works on any weak-willed/minded or emotionally driven person in general. Which can be both men and women (but mostly women).
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2013 06:59 AM by OkStudies.)
The hotter a woman is, the more she will try and steal the frame. This works by her not giving you straight answers, or by telling you lies, or by straight-up disrespecting you.
Examples:
You: How's it going guys?
Her: It was going good before you started talking to me.
You: That's a nice coat. Where'd you get it?
Her: My grandpa was the same size as me and passed it down to me.
Her: Who ARE you?
You: Excuse me?
Her: WHO are you?
You: What?
Her: WHO ARE YOU!!??
You: I'm not sure I know what you mean.
Her: (Gets flustered, walks away)
In situations such as these, there is nothing you can do to salvage the situation. Some chicks are anti-social and only want to hurt you or make you look bad. In these cases the only thing you can do is damage-control, but in very few cases can you turn it around. Women have an intuitive sense of how authority works and there is a difference between a shit-test and a bitch-test.
Bitches will say things that deliberately destroy the conversation. There is no salvaging a bitch into a bang, because even if you come up with the most witty comeback in the world, she'll just hold it against you until she can find another way to try and clown on you, disrespect you, or lie to you again.
Don't get discouraged by bitches. Don't let them get into your head either. Simply approach some other girls or do something else. There's no shame in throwing a poisoned fish back into the sea. Some women are toxic and bitter and want to hate on any man they get the chance to. Usually these women are in abundance in big blue cities (Boston, DC, NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) but not so much in Republican dominated towns. Different parts of the USA have better and friendly people than others, but these cunts exist everywhere. Don't waste your time or energy on them.
If you're giving off a friendly and open attitude and she cannot reciprocate, pass her off as damaged goods and move on.
Framing is important to all aspects of life, not just getting girls.
Here's a masterful example of a reframe and frame control outside of pickup:
Gore- What about this bill?
Bush- I can get shit done
Bush reframed Gore's question and then held onto this frame even as Gore tried to stare him down.
Ignoring is the simplest way to reframe. And as seen above, it can work very well.
Another is with humor. I almost never answer a girl's question with a straight answer.
One more option is to flip it back on her. For example, in Samseau's example about the coat, something like, "That's interesting. Do you always wear men's clothes?"
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2013 02:26 PM by Bacchus.)
(04-28-2013 02:25 PM)Bacchus Wrote: One more option is to flip it back on her. For example, in Samseau's example about the coat, something like, "That's interesting. Do you always wear men's clothes?"
That's actually a bad response because you're buying into her frame. She'll just bitch reply back to you,
(04-28-2013 02:25 PM)Bacchus Wrote: Framing is important to all aspects of life, not just getting girls.
Here's a masterful example of a reframe and frame control outside of pickup:
Gore- What about this bill?
Bush- I can get shit done
Bush reframed Gore's question and then held onto this frame even as Gore tried to stare him down.
Ignoring is the simplest way to reframe. And as seen above, it can work very well.
Another is with humor. I almost never answer a girl's question with a straight answer.
One more option is to flip it back on her. For example, in Samseau's example about the coat, something like, "That's interesting. Do you always wear men's clothes?"
I am convinced that this particular encounter cost Gore huge numbers of votes. His pomposity, arrogance, and badgering was on display for all to see, and it was extremely distasteful.
Of course, it's often better to be a re-framer than a framer.
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2013 06:25 PM by tenderman100.)
04-29-2013 06:25 PM
Bacchus
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(04-29-2013 02:14 PM)Samseau Wrote: That's actually a bad response because you're buying into her frame. She'll just bitch reply back to you,
"No, my grandpa used to wear woman's clothes."
"Funny, so did my great aunt. But why are we on this subject again?"
She can bitch back at you regardless of what you say. The beauty of the reframe is that you can always reframe again. But if she's a true bitch, you're just wasting your time. She can see you reframe for reframe. It becomes something out of Whose Line.
04-29-2013 10:28 PM
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Went out with a girl who was a legit 8.5 no matter how you slice it, she controlled the frame about 80% of the time. It wasn't even that she was hot, I was good about not letting her use that, but I had not been productive and valued my time all day.
I have solid frame control when I do the leg work of having a day that I can be proud of. Even if it's just paying bills and getting in the way of what I want to do, it's not sitting next to the computer and dicking around for hours on end like the past two days have been.
I do well on OKC and POF when I have a solid frame, getting 7 numbers and 3 dates a week. Problem is with internet dating is it can suck you in, and has a hugely diminishing rate of return. Once you get sucked in, start wasting time, and instead of doing what got you into your solid frame like talking to girls, exercising, and being productive at hobbies and work, you're sitting in a chair staring at a screen just moving your fingers for six hours.
When I use my time and actually act so that I'm present in the moment, that is frame control. Where you stop thinking and just act and speak based on what you really mean with no filter, you're in the best and most honest frame possible. That's when you can manipulate a conversation in the direction you want. Not because you're better with words, but because you're not thinking about them.
Nothing can stop a determined bitch from being bitchy. But if she's otherwise fine and gets in a bitchy mood, by having good frame control and being present, you'll be able to see it coming and know how to act, or at least remember how you acted if you handled it wrong.
Frame control doesn't make you act perfectly, it makes you aware of how you're acting and speaking because you're not concentrating on the words, you're concentrating on the situation. Present.
04-30-2013 12:34 AM
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(04-29-2013 02:14 PM)Samseau Wrote: That's actually a bad response because you're buying into her frame. She'll just bitch reply back to you,
"No, my grandpa used to wear woman's clothes."
Something tells me that if you outwit a girl like this and can hold your own in a back-and-forth, her hamster will start the coochie lubrication process. But it goes back to what Roosh says... would you rather indulge in a battle of wits that may or may not result in a lay, or would you rather find a girl who's feminine and doesn't bitch you out all day? You just know that the above type of girl will try to control the frame all day long, and after a while that's gonna get tiring. Usually not long after you've fucked her.
Recently had sex with a model that did all kinds of shit tastes to shake up my frame. It took a month of back and forth banter on Plenty of Fish but she finally relented this past weekend and I got the lay.
Some of her shit tests were:
-I'm not fucking you because you're not vegan.
-I'm not fucking you because you're too muscular I like rail thin vegans.
-I'm not fucking you because you objectify me.
-I'm not fucking you on the first date.
I held my frame, agreed and amplified, and we had some of the most violent, dirtiest sex and foreplay.
04-30-2013 05:48 PM
Samseau
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(04-29-2013 02:14 PM)Samseau Wrote: That's actually a bad response because you're buying into her frame. She'll just bitch reply back to you,
"No, my grandpa used to wear woman's clothes."
"Funny, so did my great aunt. But why are we on this subject again?"
She can bitch back at you regardless of what you say. The beauty of the reframe is that you can always reframe again. But if she's a true bitch, you're just wasting your time. She can see you reframe for reframe. It becomes something out of Whose Line.
(04-30-2013 03:55 PM)augen sehen Wrote:
(04-29-2013 02:14 PM)Samseau Wrote: That's actually a bad response because you're buying into her frame. She'll just bitch reply back to you,
"No, my grandpa used to wear woman's clothes."
Something tells me that if you outwit a girl like this and can hold your own in a back-and-forth, her hamster will start the coochie lubrication process. But it goes back to what Roosh says... would you rather indulge in a battle of wits that may or may not result in a lay, or would you rather find a girl who's feminine and doesn't bitch you out all day? You just know that the above type of girl will try to control the frame all day long, and after a while that's gonna get tiring. Usually not long after you've fucked her.
Exactly. You both have it correct. That's why it's important to recognize a bitch-test from a shit-test. You have to make a snap judgement of her intentions.
Generally speaking, if the first word out of her mouth is a shit-test, then you know it's a bitch-test and not going to be worth your time.
Imagine if you were George Clooney. Do you think she'd shit-test you as soon as you said hello?
(04-28-2013 07:45 AM)Samseau Wrote: Some chicks are anti-social and only want to hurt you or make you look bad.
There's no shame in throwing a poisoned fish back into the sea. Some women are toxic and bitter and want to hate on any man they get the chance to.
Awesome
(04-28-2013 07:45 AM)Samseau Wrote: Usually these women are in abundance in big blue cities (Boston, DC, NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) but not so much in Republican dominated towns.
Masterful troll.
WIA
05-01-2013 03:08 AM
Samseau
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Whenever someone says something mean, or callous, or retarded, I just say, "You guys are anti-social."
Anti-social is the BEST insult to use today, because people are becoming increasingly alienated from one another due to internet culture. There are no comebacks to being called anti-social.
You can follow up anti-social remarks with comments like, "I think you guys spend too much time on facebook. Perhaps you should get some practice by talking to other people you didn't go to college with."
(05-06-2013 11:56 PM)Samseau Wrote: Here's a powerful reframe I've been using:
Whenever someone says something mean, or callous, or retarded, I just say, "You guys are anti-social."
Anti-social is the BEST insult to use today, because people are becoming increasingly alienated from one another due to internet culture. There are no comebacks to being called anti-social.
You can follow up anti-social remarks with comments like, "I think you guys spend too much time on facebook. Perhaps you should get some practice by talking to other people you didn't go to college with."
Then backturn and go approach someone else.
Samseau and others dropping great posts on this thread.
I'd take this a step further and say pre-empt bitch tests by screening out bitches.
How to do this?
If you are in the right venue, chances are that your are with the right kinds of people. That's like 75% of screening.
Then it gets exponentially easier to talk to girls, because in the world that you've chosen to hang in, bitch tests are rare.
Do everything possible to make this world come before your eyes.
Go out of your comfort zone to open girls that intimidate you.
05-07-2013 03:21 AM
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Samseau
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(05-06-2013 11:56 PM)Samseau Wrote: Here's a powerful reframe I've been using:
Whenever someone says something mean, or callous, or retarded, I just say, "You guys are anti-social."
Anti-social is the BEST insult to use today, because people are becoming increasingly alienated from one another due to internet culture. There are no comebacks to being called anti-social.
You can follow up anti-social remarks with comments like, "I think you guys spend too much time on facebook. Perhaps you should get some practice by talking to other people you didn't go to college with."
Then backturn and go approach someone else.
Samseau and others dropping great posts on this thread.
I'd take this a step further and say pre-empt bitch tests by screening out bitches.
How to do this?
If you are in the right venue, chances are that your are with the right kinds of people. That's like 75% of screening.
Then it gets exponentially easier to talk to girls, because in the world that you've chosen to hang in, bitch tests are rare.
Do everything possible to make this world come before your eyes.
I think this has to do with how you "fit in" at certain venues. This also depends on your style. For example, if you like to suit up and you go to a dive bar that hates rich people, you're gonna get bitched out by everyone, even the guys.
I've mentioned this on the forum and at Roissy's, but here goes again:
You: How's it going guys?
Her: It was going good before you started talking to me.
The response to that: You: Um, I thought you were one of my sister's friends and was gonna tell you about the funeral. Never mind. Have a nice day.
Whenever a woman is an uber-bitch, simply bring death into the conversation: your dog died; your sister died, etc. This explodes their frame and exposes how callous and unfeeling they are in front of their friends (who probably don't like them anyway).
It also leaves them with a massive emotional hangover from guilt -- especially if they attempt to talk to you afterwards and you refuse.
There's a reason "my grandmother died" is a fall-back excuse with college professors and bosses when you want to get out of something. It works. Use the nuclear version of this ("my sister died") with bitchy women. It'll work to the tenth power.
01-22-2015 04:33 PM
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WestIndianArchie
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How would you turn an imaginary dead sister or dog into a lay?
WIA
(01-22-2015 04:33 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote: I've mentioned this on the forum and at Roissy's, but here goes again:
You: How's it going guys?
Her: It was going good before you started talking to me.
The response to that: You: Um, I thought you were one of my sister's friends and was gonna tell you about the funeral. Never mind. Have a nice day.
Whenever a woman is an uber-bitch, simply bring death into the conversation: your dog died; your sister died, etc. This explodes their frame and exposes how callous and unfeeling they are in front of their friends (who probably don't like them anyway).
It also leaves them with a massive emotional hangover from guilt -- especially if they attempt to talk to you afterwards and you refuse.
There's a reason "my grandmother died" is a fall-back excuse with college professors and bosses when you want to get out of something. It works. Use the nuclear version of this ("my sister died") with bitchy women. It'll work to the tenth power.
(01-22-2015 05:31 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote: How would you turn an imaginary dead sister or dog into a lay?
WIA
(01-22-2015 04:33 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote: I've mentioned this on the forum and at Roissy's, but here goes again:
You: How's it going guys?
Her: It was going good before you started talking to me.
The response to that: You: Um, I thought you were one of my sister's friends and was gonna tell you about the funeral. Never mind. Have a nice day.
Whenever a woman is an uber-bitch, simply bring death into the conversation: your dog died; your sister died, etc. This explodes their frame and exposes how callous and unfeeling they are in front of their friends (who probably don't like them anyway).
It also leaves them with a massive emotional hangover from guilt -- especially if they attempt to talk to you afterwards and you refuse.
There's a reason "my grandmother died" is a fall-back excuse with college professors and bosses when you want to get out of something. It works. Use the nuclear version of this ("my sister died") with bitchy women. It'll work to the tenth power.
You're not getting the lay anyway when you get nuclear rejection like that. What you're doing is putting a bitch in her place so that maybe she'll learn some manners and the rest of us won't have to deal with her being like that.
It's better than simply walking away and being laughed at. You want her to get laughed at.
01-23-2015 01:35 AM
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Samseau
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(01-22-2015 04:33 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote: I've mentioned this on the forum and at Roissy's, but here goes again:
You: How's it going guys?
Her: It was going good before you started talking to me.
The response to that: You: Um, I thought you were one of my sister's friends and was gonna tell you about the funeral. Never mind. Have a nice day.
Whenever a woman is an uber-bitch, simply bring death into the conversation: your dog died; your sister died, etc. This explodes their frame and exposes how callous and unfeeling they are in front of their friends (who probably don't like them anyway).
It also leaves them with a massive emotional hangover from guilt -- especially if they attempt to talk to you afterwards and you refuse.
There's a reason "my grandmother died" is a fall-back excuse with college professors and bosses when you want to get out of something. It works. Use the nuclear version of this ("my sister died") with bitchy women. It'll work to the tenth power.
But this only works with people who know your sister (or any other of your friends). A cold approach woman isn't gonna give a fuck about your dead dog, dead grandfather, or even if you die.
On the border of Mexico and Belize my friends and I boarded an old school bus which was camped but very nostalgic because it was the same type of bus that I used to ride to school.
In the back of the bus me and Flo (my buddy) were alone because we wanted to keep an eye on the bags and were seated next to several mean looking Belizeans. I mean not just by looks I could tell by the posture, scared knuckles, and overall frame of these dudes some were bad men. Most of them were large African looking men. One who was standing in the back was grunting and asking Flo a bunch of random and mocking questions. It was an awkward moment. I decided to practice framing but without being a dick to this old fucker. (Respect old men)
I knew the Germans I was with would ignore it in polite German fashion. I decided to turn the situation around and start talking to this old guy. He was being the alpha and grunting and making jokes. My German friend was really uncomfortable. I started talking and turned the aim of the questions to him.
I talked loudly and said
“You know who you you remind me of? My old uncle Bruce. That motherfucker let me tell ya... Drunk as a skunk from dusk till dawn… always yellin weird shit... makin’ noise.”
People started to listen and my voice trailed off as I stared at him. Another pause.
“Everyday I’d wake up and go look for him passed out somewhere. Usually I’d find him in a lawn chair by the pool drunk as hell sleeping with his hand in his pants.”
People started to laugh loudly after my pauses.
“What’s your name man? I stood up and shook his hand firmly but smiling sincerely, I was having fun and genuinely liked this weird old guy. He said a name that was hard to pronounce, and I said “I’m gonna call you Uncle Bruce.”
Laughter.
The man said “Nah I ain’t no Bruce. I’ll call you white.” But it was drowned out by laughter and cross talk from the locals who were joining the conversation. I was standing next to him at this point because it was less cramped to stand at the back.
I said “Yea man we’re just having fun”
So there you have it. I made a joke at his expense, started calling him Uncle Bruce (named him) and voila! We had everyone on the bus talking and laughing and getting to know each other.
At this point I turn into a "9" (Read Tao of Badass for social value scale) and became very cool to everyone. No need to abuse your skills.
Some local later offered me some local tobacco/weed blend and I took the bag happily and thanked him profusely. He explained that the thin layer of what seemed like some sort of wrap was a mushroom and was meant to be used for rolling. He assured me it was not “Magic Mushroom” and that it was both “smooth and nice.” It smoked smoothly and didn’t seem to have any effect save sleepiness and I enjoyed it thoroughly even though I hate tobacco products.
Framing has been one of my most valuable tools learned from game and I use it daily.
01-26-2015 10:26 PM
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