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Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
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Vacancier Permanent Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
Well said. However, the main root of all this is the weakness of the men who have first allowed the laws to be so one sided and 2nd of all, for not doing anything to change it. The average male in NA is the poster child of betaness who would kill for a taste of pussy, any pussy and put that shit on a pedestal.

If laws were the way it should be, girls who trick guys into impregnating them and we all know how far a decided bitch can go. Every day, every minute, there's a guy who falls to this racket. Something must be done to stop this and fast.

Let me ask all of you in here a tough and provocative question: what would YOU do if a girl did that to you? I mean her getting pregnant on purpose and without your consent so that she can use you as her meal ticket for the next 18 years?

(05-16-2013 04:42 PM)scorpion Wrote:  A mother kills her unborn child: she's an empowered woman making a difficult choice. She deserves society's financial and emotional support to help her kill the baby and recover from her self-inflicted emotional trauma.

A father kills his unborn child: he' a monster who needs to be executed or locked in a cage for this rest of his life. He deserves the worst scorn and opprobrium possible, and should be removed from society immediately.
05-16-2013 11:14 PM
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scorpion Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
The entire argument in favor of allowing a pregnant woman the sole control over her abortion decision rests on the fact that it is "her body". Feminists and other pro-choice advocates claim that it is morally wrong to force a woman to carry a baby to term if she does not want to, because that would be exercising unjust control over her body and thereby violating her rights. A woman who does not have total control over her own body is compared by these groups to "chattel" or "property", little different from the slaves of centuries past.

What is interesting is that the same argument - literally the exact same line of logic - serves to tell us that it is unquestionably morally wrong to legally entrap a man with the power of the state and compel him to pay 18 years of child support. Why? Because this violates the principle that he should have autonomous control of his body. In forcing child support on a man facing an unwanted pregnancy, the state takes control of his body by demanding productive labor from him. He must labor and pay a certain amount of money, or he will go to jail. Forced labor with the threat of punishment? Doesn't that sound awfully similar to slavery?

Another rationale for allowing first trimester abortions especially is that the fetus at that time simply is not a human being, and so aborting it is not taking a human life. For this reason, the mother is perfectly justified in killing the fetus if she so chooses, and this is not a crime, since the fetus is not a human being and has no rights. However, apparently the fetus somehow becomes a human if the father induces an abortion.

Our legal system is so insane in regards to abortion, pregnancy and child support. Every player needs to keep this shit at the forefront of his mind when dealing with American woman. Do NOT let yourself fall into this situation. Control your nut at all costs. Wrap it up if you gotta. Consider a vasectomy.

It's like the ref says before a fight: "Gentlemen, protect yourself at all times."

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
05-16-2013 11:42 PM
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NY Digital Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-16-2013 11:42 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Do NOT let yourself fall into this situation. Control your nut at all costs. Wrap it up if you gotta. Consider a vasectomy.

It's like the ref says before a fight: "Gentlemen, protect yourself at all times."

It's actually reversible as well, and it doesn't affect sex.

And even if somehow 10-15 years down the road you wanted to have children, by that time the reversal surgery would have improved significantly.

Unless it becomes a post apocalyptic situation, you're good.

EDIT: supposedly India is researching some kind of injection type birth control that lasts several years. saw it somewhere on here a while ago.
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2013 12:10 AM by NY Digital.)
05-16-2013 11:53 PM
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cardguy Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
I have little sympathy for guys getting girls pregnant.

Only because it is so much easier to avoid it - than it is trying to change the laws to get more equal rights. I remind myself everyday how important it is not get a chick pregnant. And I don't think enough men think these things through.

You are a fool if you think your GF doesn't want kids. She might say that now - but there is a good chance she will change her mind when she finds out she is pregnant.

And then are fucked. Your entire future hanging on the whims of a chick who has just being told she is pregnant. And who will have friends and family telling her to keep the kid.

I don't mind trying to solve difficult problems. But sometimes you just have to concentrate on avoiding them, since it is so much easier.
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2013 12:11 AM by cardguy.)
05-17-2013 12:07 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-17-2013 12:07 AM)cardguy Wrote:  I have little sympathy for guys getting girls pregnant.

Only because it is so much easier to avoid it - than it is trying to change the laws to get more equal rights. I remind myself everyday how important it is not get a chick pregnant. And I don't think enough men think these things through.

You are a fool if you think your GF doesn't want kids. She might say that now - but there is a good chance she will change her mind when she finds out whe is pregnant.

And then are fucked. Your entire future hanging on the whims of a chick who has just being told she is pregnant. And who will have friends and family telling her to keep the kid.

I don't mind trying to solve difficult problems. But sometimes you just have to concentrate on avoiding them, since it is so much easier.

Frankly, I do think the law is pretty fucked and needs to be changed, but what you say is also true.
05-17-2013 12:09 AM
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cardguy Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
Yeah - I support men in these areas. But prevention is better than a cure. Like with cancer.
05-17-2013 12:13 AM
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Days of Broken Arrows Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
We all seem to have missed THE most important part of this story. I'll highlight it:

"The prosecution claims that Welden admitted to giving the woman cytotec during a phone call that authorities recorded."

As I've said before on this forum (relating to the "donglegate" scandal): NEVER ADMIT TO ANYTHING. Even in private, like this. The system is rigged against you in virtually all cases. Most laws and workplace rules are immoral to begin with. "Admitting" something means you're being "moral," which is self-destructive and idiotic in an inherently immoral system.

This dumbass is now facing life without parole because of a law that's totally contradictory when it comes to men and women, as several posters above noted. She could have killed the fetus at anytime, but if he does it's "murder." So, er, is it murder or not? Well, depends. What the fuck kind of morality is that? See what I mean?

The reason for such laws, by the way, has nothing to do with "morality" when it comes to killing the unborn. If it did, abortion would be totally illegal. The reason is that they need warm bodies to fill the for-profit prison system. Because of this, prosecutors, judges and lawmakers have rigged it against YOU. So whether you've stolen a candy bar, said the word "dongle," or committed a heinous act against your own baby, STFU about it. I'm not advocating murdering babies here, but since this guy already went that route, 'fessing up to it was the stupidest thing he could have done.

And never, ever talk to cops without a lawyer. They invented fucking Miranda rights for a reason. If this shit keeps up, I'm going to request Roosh make the old Shaggy song "It Wasn't Me" somehow come up as a reminder when people log in here.
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2013 01:02 AM by Days of Broken Arrows.)
05-17-2013 12:27 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-17-2013 12:27 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  We all seem to have missed THE most important part of this story. I'll highlight it:

"The prosecution claims that Welden admitted to giving the woman cytotec during a phone call that authorities recorded."

As I've said before on this forum (relating to the "donglegate" scandal): NEVER ADMIT TO ANYTHING. Even in private, like this. The system is rigged against you in virtually all cases. Most laws and workplace rules are immoral to begin with. "Admitting" something means you're being "moral," which is self-destructive and idiotic in an inherently immoral system.

This dumbass is now facing life without parole because of a law that's totally contradictory when it comes to men and women, as several posters above noted. She could have killed the fetus at anytime, but if he does it's "murder." So, er, is it murder or not? Well, depends. What the fuck kind of morality is that? See what I mean?

The reason for such laws, by the way, has nothing to do with "morality" when it comes to killing the unborn. If it did, abortion would be totally illegal. The reason is that they need warm bodies to fill the for-profit prison system. Because of this, prosecutors, judges and lawmakers have rigged it against YOU. So whether you've stolen a candy bar, said the word "dongle," or committed a heinous act against your own baby, STFU about it. I'm not advocating murdering babies here, but since this guy already went that route, 'fessing up to it was the stupidest thing he could have done.

And never, ever talk to cops without a lawyer. They invented fucking Miranda rights for a reason. If this shit keeps up, I'm going to request Roosh make the old Shaggy song "It Wasn't Me" somehow come up as a reminder when people log in here.

The kid is obviously a fucking idiot. My parents taught me from as young as I can remember to never talk to cops. Don't say shit, DEFINITELY don't rat, and don't admit to anything. Unfortunately, most people are fucking pussies and spill the beans from the get go.

Ever watched that show The First 48? Those fucking retards try to lie to the cops from the second they are brought into questioning. Then, they try to say "I didn't do it. It was Marcus, he shot the clerk." thinking that the cops will let them go and hang their friend. Problem is, they don't realize that it doesn't matter who pulls the trigger. If you are there, and you participated in any way, you are guilty of murder too.

Cops lie like crazy. They will act like your friend, tell you the only way to help yourself is to tell the truth, and to just come clean so that they can help you. The second you come clean, boom, charged and thrown into jail.

/end rant
05-17-2013 04:54 AM
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chexmix Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-17-2013 04:54 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  The kid is obviously a fucking idiot. My parents taught me from as young as I can remember to never talk to cops. Don't say shit, DEFINITELY don't rat, and don't admit to anything.

Hell my dad as been a cop for over 30 years and says the exact same thing.
05-17-2013 05:08 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-16-2013 11:14 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Let me ask all of you in here a tough and provocative question: what would YOU do if a girl did that to you? I mean her getting pregnant on purpose and without your consent so that she can use you as her meal ticket for the next 18 years?

Faking my own death certificate?but that only works if she did not know my family
If she does then pretending i'm ok with the little bastard but demanding a DNA exam and bribing whoever it takes to fraud it.Yes,that is South America Banana

"Go be fat on someone else's time."
05-17-2013 08:25 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
He did what he did. He should have denied any involvement and lawyered up.
They can't prove a damn thing.

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05-17-2013 08:48 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
I have posted this before, but it bears repeating. If you have never seen this video I highly recommend watching it in it's entirety. The job of the police and the DA is the CONVICT you. Plenty of innocent men have been convicted and spent years and decades in jail for crimes they have not committed. This guy admitted guilt and will probably be convicted.



05-17-2013 08:57 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-17-2013 12:07 AM)cardguy Wrote:  I have little sympathy for guys getting girls pregnant.

Only because it is so much easier to avoid it - than it is trying to change the laws to get more equal rights. I remind myself everyday how important it is not get a chick pregnant. And I don't think enough men think these things through.

You are a fool if you think your GF doesn't want kids. She might say that now - but there is a good chance she will change her mind when she finds out she is pregnant.

And then are fucked. Your entire future hanging on the whims of a chick who has just being told she is pregnant. And who will have friends and family telling her to keep the kid.

I don't mind trying to solve difficult problems. But sometimes you just have to concentrate on avoiding them, since it is so much easier.

I've said this to both men and women countless times. If a woman lets you go raw and cum inside of her, she's comfortable with the prospect of getting pregnant. She just is. If she REALLY didn't want to be pregnant, she'd tell you to get a condom. The tales of all the raw-dogging some of you guys do opened my eyes. I've never thought twice about slipping on a jimmie, but it isn't the fact that guys WANT to raw dog that surprised me - it's that these females allow it, and in some cases PREFER it.

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05-17-2013 09:07 AM
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RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-17-2013 09:07 AM)Timoteo Wrote:  I've said this to both men and women countless times. If a woman lets you go raw and cum inside of her, she's comfortable with the prospect of getting pregnant. She just is. If she REALLY didn't want to be pregnant, she'd tell you to get a condom. The tales of all the raw-dogging some of you guys do opened my eyes. I've never thought twice about slipping on a jimmie, but it isn't the fact that guys WANT to raw dog that surprised me - it's that these females allow it, and in some cases PREFER it.

i dont agree with that. they let you because theres the morning after pill, the abortion pill and worst case, an abortion. they let you because they are horny and have no self control. maybe older women want to get pregnant but it has nothign to do with whether they let you go rawdog or not, most women will let you

in the game of life there are spectators and players,which are you?
05-17-2013 09:12 AM
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RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-17-2013 09:12 AM)GenJx Wrote:  
(05-17-2013 09:07 AM)Timoteo Wrote:  I've said this to both men and women countless times. If a woman lets you go raw and cum inside of her, she's comfortable with the prospect of getting pregnant. She just is. If she REALLY didn't want to be pregnant, she'd tell you to get a condom. The tales of all the raw-dogging some of you guys do opened my eyes. I've never thought twice about slipping on a jimmie, but it isn't the fact that guys WANT to raw dog that surprised me - it's that these females allow it, and in some cases PREFER it.

i dont agree with that. they let you because theres the morning after pill, the abortion pill and worst case, an abortion. they let you because they are horny and have no self control. maybe older women want to get pregnant but it has nothign to do with whether they let you go rawdog or not, most women will let you

And how long has the morning after pill or abortion pill been around, or even available? How old are you? I'm guessing I've been around a bit longer than you I'm guessing, and I've ALWAYS had women ask me if I had a condom, even older women I smash. Even women that get abortions don't treat them frivolously, even if they make the decision to get one. And you really didn't dispute my post - even women that are supposedly on birth control pills aren't always responsible about taking them every day. You're giving them too much credit by saying they're just horny and have temporarily lost self-control. Women of a ALL ages can be conniving, and younger chicks want children too.

Or what about those chicks that claim they don't believe in abortion on religious grounds, but yet didn't hesitate to give up the premarital panties?

"The best kind of pride is that which compels a man to do his best when no one is watching."
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2013 09:23 AM by Timoteo.)
05-17-2013 09:20 AM
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Post: #41
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-17-2013 12:27 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  "The prosecution claims that Welden admitted to giving the woman cytotec during a phone call that authorities recorded."

Ooh, now there's a criminal procedure theory intellectual masturbation topic ripe for discussion: can a recorded phone call between authorities and a suspect be a custodial interrogation for Miranda purposes? Will it implicate the 14th Am voluntariness backstop? Is it problematic under the Massiah 6th Am doctrine if proceedings had commenced without counsel?

Short answer for nonlawyers: the first thing his attorneys will do is seek to suppress the admission. Without it, the case is a lot harder to prove.
05-17-2013 11:14 AM
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Post: #42
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
If he gets convicted I see this going all the way up to the Supreme Court. Too many juicy issues at hand. Most notably in my mind the Equal Protection Clause.

Comments are mostly pro-Defendant, one of my favorite:

Quote:I was “tricked” into thinking my girlfriend was taking the pill. Funny the FBI didn’t get involved and keep me from having to pay over $100,000 in child support for being DECEIVED into it!!!!!!!!
05-17-2013 12:09 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-17-2013 11:14 AM)lurker Wrote:  
(05-17-2013 12:27 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  "The prosecution claims that Welden admitted to giving the woman cytotec during a phone call that authorities recorded."

Ooh, now there's a criminal procedure theory intellectual masturbation topic ripe for discussion: can a recorded phone call between authorities and a suspect be a custodial interrogation for Miranda purposes? Will it implicate the 14th Am voluntariness backstop? Is it problematic under the Massiah 6th Am doctrine if proceedings had commenced without counsel?

Short answer for nonlawyers: the first thing his attorneys will do is seek to suppress the admission. Without it, the case is a lot harder to prove.

from a non-lawyer/amateur point of view it sounds impossible. it would always be "reasonably doubtful" that she had not mistaken one bottle of pills for another, right?
05-17-2013 02:29 PM
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RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
They will try and deal a plea bargain to keep it from making case law. Dude still screwed, femnazis appeased.
The hamsters will buy it, but men hearing people arguein all seriousness that a 6 week old fetus is human or not based on how inconvenient the mother thinks it all is, would not play well.
05-17-2013 07:47 PM
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RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-17-2013 02:29 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  from a non-lawyer/amateur point of view it sounds impossible. it would always be "reasonably doubtful" that she had not mistaken one bottle of pills for another, right?

As a fellow non-lawyer/amateur, I wold concur with your intuition.

However, it seems that the NFL has higher standards for "indisputable evidence" than does the American judicial system when the plaintiff is a woman and the defendant a man in a "he said, she said" case.

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05-17-2013 08:10 PM
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Timoteo Offline
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RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
I always remember that Scott Peterson is on death row in California, when all evidence against him was purely circumstantial. Part of that evidence is phone conversations with his mistress, Amber Frey, that show him talking about his wife in the past tense when she was still just considered missing, and his supposed lack of duress at the time. While he's the person most likely to have killed his wife and unborn child, the only forensic evidence was a piece of her hair on a pair of pliers on his boat. There was no other supposed evidence, and no witnesses. A ton of circumstantial evidence and the court of public opinion has him awaiting appeal, and possibly lethal injection. If his lawyer can't get that phone call thrown out, he could very well end up spending the rest of his days in prison. Once it gets into a court of law, you don't know what can happen.

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05-17-2013 08:26 PM
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RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-17-2013 02:29 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  from a non-lawyer/amateur point of view it sounds impossible. it would always be "reasonably doubtful" that she had not mistaken one bottle of pills for another, right?

Maybe. That's potentially a poor argument if it played out like this during direct examination:

DA: Describe what happened.
Girl, on stand: I took the pill, and then miscarried. [cries]
DA: Why did you take a cytotec pill?
Girl: I thought it was amoxicillin.
DA: How did you mistake them?
Girl: It was in an amoxicillin container.
DA: Did you have a Rx for amoxicillin?
Girl: Yes.
DA: Did you have a Rx for cytotec?
Girl: No.
DA: Who else had access to your medicine cabinet with the amoxicillin?
Girl: The defendant.

Even if she had the cytotec Rx, it's still dangerous:

DA: Could you have mistaken the amoxicillin for the cytotec?
Girl: No.
DA: Why not?
Girl: The amoxicillin came in a brown plastic container with... pill looked like... cytotec came in a smaller opaque container with warnings... pill looked like... etc.

The only way she takes it is without seeing them against each other, which she would have if she had obtained both Rxs.

Another tack is that she spontaneously miscarried, which happens to something like 50% of pregnancies in the first trimester. Then they'll try to hang him by showing he obtained the Rx himself. It's a tough line to find.

I also like two other theories:

1. No murder happened, as abortion at 6 weeks is legal in FL. The state is essentially estopped from claiming fetal personhood through abortion statutes and the Roe v Wade line, leading to a defective indictment. This is murky - collateral estoppel can't usually be used against states in criminal proceedings, but that's when the issue was litigated in other like cases. The constitutional factors and state statutes make this more like a failure to state a claim. What happens here is he gets convicted of battery on the girl and the judge nails him for the top end of the sentencing range.

2. He has an interesting equal protection claim, since she could have done the same thing and face no legal issues at all. Since it's a sex discrimination claim with abortion rights issues, parties would argue over whether to use an intermediate or strict scrutiny standard, but either would put him miles ahead of the rational basis standard used when a fundamental right doesn't come into play.
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2013 09:46 PM by lurker.)
05-17-2013 09:35 PM
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RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
Cleaning out some papers and remembered this article.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/20...s/2432769/

It is an article about men and abortion. About, duh, men resorting to violence. But this was weird.

Quote:Last year, a man in the United Kingdom killed himself after discovering that his girlfriend was planning to abort their child.

There was a link to that article about the guy killing himself. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9709501....on_threat/

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07-07-2013 02:56 PM
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RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-16-2013 04:42 PM)scorpion Wrote:  A mother kills her unborn child: she's an empowered woman making a difficult choice. She deserves society's financial and emotional support to help her kill the baby and recover from her self-inflicted emotional trauma.

A father kills his unborn child: he' a monster who needs to be executed or locked in a cage for this rest of his life. He deserves the worst scorn and opprobrium possible, and should be removed from society immediately.

In a linguistics class we were discussing how different groups use different language to frame issues.

Conservatives say Pro Life, Liberals say Anti Choice

Conservatives say Anti Life, Liberals say Pro Choice

Each side chooses language that frames their stance positively.

The class nods along.

I scribble on a piece of paper "Pro Choice/Deadbeat Dad"

One female classmate laughs. Another sees it and gives me the worst stink eye I've gotten in years. "That's just disrespectful." She couldn't believe I dare say it...
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2013 01:08 AM by Sonsowey.)
07-11-2013 01:08 AM
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Beyond Borders
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Posts: 35
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #50
RE: Man charged with murder for tricking GF into taking abortion pill
(05-16-2013 04:42 PM)scorpion Wrote:  A mother kills her unborn child: she's an empowered woman making a difficult choice. She deserves society's financial and emotional support to help her kill the baby and recover from her self-inflicted emotional trauma.

A father kills his unborn child: he' a monster who needs to be executed or locked in a cage for this rest of his life. He deserves the worst scorn and opprobrium possible, and should be removed from society immediately.

This is why society needs to be shaken down and shown
everywhere this exact reality, that feminism and
all these double standards targetted directly against men,
are the real killer
07-11-2013 05:53 AM
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