I'm Touring The United States! Starting in June, I'm conducting private events in 23 American cities. Click here for full details.

Post Reply 
NFL thread
Author Message
L M McCoy Offline
Banned

Posts: 1,346
Joined: Feb 2014
Post: #876
RE: NFL thread
As atrocious as Flacco was during the regular season, the ravens could not have won the SB without him.

Wilson went through a 6 game stretch where he threw for under 150 passing yards and under 50 completion %

The seahawks went 6-0 during that stretch.

Wilson can throw a pretty ball but he isn't worth big money. Entirely replaceable.


I'm not saying the seahawks shouldn't resign him when he comes a FA or should get rid him as he is pretty good but he isn't a top 10 QB IMO
(This post was last modified: 04-23-2014 08:52 PM by L M McCoy.)
04-23-2014 08:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
DWF Offline
Banned

Posts: 118
Joined: Dec 2013
Post: #877
RE: NFL thread
Careful LM McCoy, the Wilson nut-huggers will be out in full force after your comments.

(I agree with you 100%, btw)
04-23-2014 09:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
2Wycked Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,607
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 130
Post: #878
RE: NFL thread
Schedule came out today, boys.

Didn't most of us assume that the opener would be Denver at Seattle, as they had just played in the Super Bowl? How often do the NFC/AFC champs duke it out in the SB and then play the next year in the regular season?

They didn't go with that, it's Green Bay traveling to Seattle. For some reason I found that hilarious. They trust Rodgers over Manning to kick the season off right? Hell, the DEN/SEA game isn't even a primetime game! It's a late afternoon one early on in the season. Laugh

ESPN Insider article on the implications of the schedule. Apparently the Bears have a much, much more difficult schedule than last year. The division as a whole has a MUCH more difficult schedule than last year.

NY Giants get five primetime spots after going 7-9 and Manning playing like shit. I guess it helps to be in the NFC East. . .

Old Chinese Man Wrote:  why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
04-23-2014 10:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes 2Wycked's post:
Brosemite
Professor Fox Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,187
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 12
Post: #879
RE: NFL thread
Niners open their new stadium against Da Bears. I hope they send them back to Chicago via a swift ass kicking.

Seattle 2x in 3 weeks is not good. What is good is that the Raiders are sandwiched between those games, that's gotta be worth half a bye week.
04-23-2014 10:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Professor Fox's post:
samsamsam
Excelsior Offline
Innovative Casanova
*******
Gold Member

Posts: 15,023
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation: 218
Post: #880
RE: NFL thread
(04-23-2014 09:42 PM)DWF Wrote:  Careful LM McCoy, the Wilson nut-huggers will be out in full force after your comments.

(I agree with you 100%, btw)

LOL

I'm not even going to bother. I can go into a very long soliloquy about Wilson filled with statistics and other forms of substantiation that emphasize the exemplary traits Wilson has displayed as a player that are rare in quarterbacks (read: cannot easily be replaced).

I'm not going to do that right now for one simple reason: if you cannot see the many positive attributes Wilson has as a player nor comprehend just how rare many of those attributes are or how essential they have been to the Seahawks' recent success, then nothing I say will change your mind. I know this because I've spent many pages authoring said soliloquys earlier in this thread, to little avail (those who didn't believe in Wilson then do not believe in him now, regardless of the nature or extent of the evidence presented).

I write now to merely affirm the following:

-Tarvaris Jackson is "easily replaceable". Trent Dilfer was "easily replaceable". Brandon Weeden will be "easily replaceable". Matt Cassel is "easily replaceable". Russell Wilson is not "easily replaceable".
-Russell Wilson is superior to Joe Flacco
-Russell Wilson is a top 10 QB
-Russell Wilson is going to be paid like a top 10 QB
-Russell Wilson is aware of this, and has made a wise move to shore up his financial future.
04-23-2014 11:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Excelsior's post:
Eastside
kosko Offline
Innovative Casanova
*******
Gold Member

Posts: 6,778
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 146
Post: #881
RE: NFL thread
(04-23-2014 10:07 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  Schedule came out today, boys.

Didn't most of us assume that the opener would be Denver at Seattle, as they had just played in the Super Bowl? How often do the NFC/AFC champs duke it out in the SB and then play the next year in the regular season?

They didn't go with that, it's Green Bay traveling to Seattle. For some reason I found that hilarious. They trust Rodgers over Manning to kick the season off right? Hell, the DEN/SEA game isn't even a primetime game! It's a late afternoon one early on in the season. Laugh

ESPN Insider article on the implications of the schedule. Apparently the Bears have a much, much more difficult schedule than last year. The division as a whole has a MUCH more difficult schedule than last year.

NY Giants get five primetime spots after going 7-9 and Manning playing like shit. I guess it helps to be in the NFC East. . .

NY Giants will get bounced if they play like shit, and fuck shitty Dallas getting as many NBC games as Seattle, it is what it is but its garbage. The NFL has more Flex power this year but the Giants and Cowboys will forever get prime time games because they always draw big numbers even if they are shitty. I hope they both get flexed out.

The NFL is weird. You rotate which outside Divisions you play, which takes away 4 games, then you have division games which takes away 8 games, your only left with a few "add-ins". If your Denver that means playing New England and Indianapolis, and by default and that means they play the AFC East this year as its the only way to get New England and Brady again this year.

Each year somebody gets royally fucked by the random (and rigged) nature of the secd and this year is the Bears.

My Steelers have it pretty good. The Division is fucked up and every team is capable of getting streaky on us but we finished the season best in football so I am hoping it carries over.
04-23-2014 11:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Brosemite Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,192
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 85
Post: #882
RE: NFL thread
(04-23-2014 10:07 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  NY Giants get five primetime spots after going 7-9 and Manning playing like shit. I guess it helps to be in the NFC East. . .

Not to mention you only need to win 9 games annually to capture that division & get a 1st round game @ home....

yb13
04-23-2014 11:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Brosemite's post:
samsamsam
L M McCoy Offline
Banned

Posts: 1,346
Joined: Feb 2014
Post: #883
RE: NFL thread
(04-23-2014 11:29 PM)Excelsior Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 09:42 PM)DWF Wrote:  Careful LM McCoy, the Wilson nut-huggers will be out in full force after your comments.

(I agree with you 100%, btw)

LOL

I'm not even going to bother. I can go into a very long soliloquy about Wilson filled with statistics and other forms of substantiation that emphasize the exemplary traits Wilson has displayed as a player that are rare in quarterbacks (read: cannot easily be replaced).

I'm not going to do that right now for one simple reason: if you cannot see the many positive attributes Wilson has as a player nor comprehend just how rare many of those attributes are or how essential they have been to the Seahawks' recent success, then nothing I say will change your mind. I know this because I've spent many pages authoring said soliloquys earlier in this thread, to little avail (those who didn't believe in Wilson then do not believe in him now, regardless of the nature or extent of the evidence presented).

I write now to merely affirm the following:

-Tarvaris Jackson is "easily replaceable". Trent Dilfer was "easily replaceable". Brandon Weeden will be "easily replaceable". Matt Cassel is "easily replaceable". Russell Wilson is not "easily replaceable".
-Russell Wilson is superior to Joe Flacco
-Russell Wilson is a top 10 QB
-Russell Wilson is going to be paid like a top 10 QB
-Russell Wilson is aware of this, and has made a wise move to shore up his financial future.
Weeden is not even a starting QB
Nor is Jackson, Cassel got the start once Ponder got injured
The fact that you went out of your way to compare Wilson to game manager type of QBs more than proves my point that he is overrated.

However, I should have been more clear.

Wilson is replaceable for the seahawks. He is not a top 10 QB YET, based off of his stats I don't see how he is a top 10 QB either. had he been taller, he would have been a 1st RD QB. That being said, what rare attributes does Wilson have? Elite arm strength? Perfect foot work? Amazing pocket presence? Has Wilson ever carved up a secondary when they knew the pass was coming? Do the receivers make Wilson or does Wilson make the receivers? Despite constantly pounding the rock, Wilson took 44 sacks. He also holds on to the ball way too long despite being surrounded by an above average WR corps. He held the ball the longest among all QBs last season. He also has a very slow release.

When going up against above average defenses, Wilson is very subpar.

Its because of Flacco the ravens went 8-8. Ray Rice averaged 3.1 YPC and Bernard Pierce averaged 2.9 YPC. The ravens had no run game.

IMO

1-Brees
2-Manning
3-Brady
4-Luck
5-Rodgers
6-Foles
7-Rivers
8-Newton
9-Romo
10-Stafford

all those QBs are better than Wilson. Wilson is almost as overrated as Matty ice.

EDIT: His stats are almost identical to Alex Smith. Is Alex Smith a top 10 QB too?
(This post was last modified: 04-23-2014 11:59 PM by L M McCoy.)
04-23-2014 11:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
kosko Offline
Innovative Casanova
*******
Gold Member

Posts: 6,778
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 146
Post: #884
RE: NFL thread
ANDREW LUCK AHEAD OF ROGERS?!? Confused

You Wilson haters .. just remember...

[Image: 35732171-ap_super_bowl_football.jpg]

[Image: 263.gif]
(This post was last modified: 04-23-2014 11:58 PM by kosko.)
04-23-2014 11:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like kosko's post:
Excelsior, Avarence, MidWest
L M McCoy Offline
Banned

Posts: 1,346
Joined: Feb 2014
Post: #885
RE: NFL thread
Rodgers has always had a plethora of offensive weapons around him. Did you see what Matt Flynn did in GB? He couldn't even start for the raiders but in packers scheme he looks like he is an above average QB.

Luck had no weapons last year (he made T.Y. Hilton), with the worst O-line, with a pathetic excuse of a D and he took them to the playoffs.

Did you see the comeback against the chiefs?
04-24-2014 12:00 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
kosko Offline
Innovative Casanova
*******
Gold Member

Posts: 6,778
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 146
Post: #886
RE: NFL thread
^ I did and that may have been the only Luck game you seem to have watched because I saw him force balls and make shitty throws all year round.

When has Rogers ever had a legit run attack to help him out? Whom was the last Packer to run over 1000 yards? Rogers doesn't have the stacked weapons you perceive a lot of is a tandem that uses his skills to give his free time and space to make plays.
04-24-2014 12:15 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
L M McCoy Offline
Banned

Posts: 1,346
Joined: Feb 2014
Post: #887
RE: NFL thread
(04-24-2014 12:15 AM)kosko Wrote:  ^ I did and that may have been the only Luck game you seem to have watched because I saw him force balls and make shitty throws all year round.

When has Rogers ever had a legit run attack to help him out? Whom was the last Packer to run over 1000 yards? Rogers doesn't have the stacked weapons you perceive a lot of is a tandem that uses his skills to give his free time and space to make plays.

He had to force throws due to his line. He was the most hurried QB, his line gave up the most pressure, his line gave up the quickest pressure. His WR corps was Hilton, Heyward-bey and Brazil. Can you blame him? Without Luck the colts are a 2-14 team. With him they are a 11-5 team. Packers were able to make the playoffs despite missing Rodgers. Do you think the colts could have done the same without Luck? Despite throwing the ball more than Wilson, Luck took less sacks. Luck also had no playmakers outside of Hilton last season. Can Wilson say the same? Even the jags have better offensive weapons than the colts had last season.

Eddie Lacy was the last packers RB to go over 1k yards.

Rodgers had Nelson, Cobb((got hurt but came back), Finley (till he got hurt), Jones, and Boykin. Rodgers always has had weapons all around him.

when has manning ever had a running game? What about Brady or Brees?

Matt Flynn also made plays in the packers scheme with the weapons that the packers have. He was trash with every other team he was with but he performed in GB.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 12:31 AM by L M McCoy.)
04-24-2014 12:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Eastside Offline
Wingman
***

Posts: 755
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 10
Post: #888
RE: NFL thread
The fact that there are people that still aren't sold on Russell Wilson is bewildering to me. The people who say he is just a game manager obviously haven't watched all of his games and are just cherry-picking there arguments and not looking at the entire body of work.

This article sums up his elite statistical performance through 2 years so far:
http://www.fieldgulls.com/seahawks-analy...-the-draft
04-24-2014 01:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Eastside Offline
Wingman
***

Posts: 755
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 10
Post: #889
RE: NFL thread
(04-24-2014 12:30 AM)L M McCoy Wrote:  Despite throwing the ball more than Wilson, Luck took less sacks. Luck also had no playmakers outside of Hilton last season. Can Wilson say the same? Even the jags have better offensive weapons than the colts had last season.

The Seahawks offensive line was decimated by injuries last year and even when the starters returned at the end of the year they never truly regained the continuity of the year before. Wilson also plays in the NFC west which features some of the best defenses in the league. The Hawks also had some injuries at receiver last year and Wilson never had a true #1 option to go to. Considering these things, he was a sitting duck at times last year through no fault of his own so that accounts for the increased number of sacks (although he still made a lot of good things happen under that pressure).
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 01:20 AM by Eastside.)
04-24-2014 01:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Excelsior Offline
Innovative Casanova
*******
Gold Member

Posts: 15,023
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation: 218
Post: #890
RE: NFL thread
(04-23-2014 11:51 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  Weeden is not even a starting QB
Nor is Jackson, Cassel got the start once Ponder got injured
The fact that you went out of your way to compare Wilson to game manager type of QBs more than proves my point that he is overrated.

All of those quarterbacks were starters recently. I am comparing them to Wilson because you accused Wilson of being easily replaceable. This is false, and I have attempted to illustrate that by giving you a list of quarterbacks who really and truly are easily replaceable. They are not comparable to Russell Wilson because Russell Wilson is not easily replaceable.

The best statistical measures we have of QB replaceability confirm this.
If you want to talk about easily replaceable QBs, we can have conversations about Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Cassel, Jake Locker, Ryan Tannehill and several others. Russell Wilson is nowhere near that league, as he is statistically one of the 10 least replaceable quarterbacks in the NFL. To imply that he is anything other than that is to divorce oneself from objective reality.

Quote:However, I should have been more clear.

Wilson is replaceable for the seahawks.

No, he is not, unless the Seahawks are okay with a drop in performance a a result of the replacement. If you want to see what the Seahawks would look like with their elite defense intact but without Wilson's accuracy, decision making, and skillful escapability, you can look at the 49ers.
Russell Wilson is the difference between a good team (perrennial playoff contenders, maybe Super Bowl losers in a good year) and a Super Bowl Championship team.

Quote:He is not a top 10 QB YET, based off of his stats I don't see how he is a top 10 QB either.

-2012 Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year
-Most passing touchdowns in a season by a rookie (26, tied with Peyton Manning)
-6th rookie quarterback in NFL history to win a playoff game
-2nd most total touchdowns for a rookie quarterback (30)
-2nd highest passer rating for a rookie quarterback (100.0)
-2× Pro Bowl (2012, 2013)
-Most passing yards in a playoff game by a rookie (385 yards)[81]
-Most wins by a quarterback in his first two NFL seasons (24)
-Super Bowl Champion in his second season
-Top 5 Passer Rating (2012, 2013)
-Top 10 DYAR
-Top 10 DVOA

His stats are more than good enough to make an argument for the Top 10.

Quote:had he been taller, he would have been a 1st RD QB.

Clearly.

Quote:That being said, what rare attributes does Wilson have?

-Elite Arm Strength (Possibly the biggest reason he was drafted as high as he was despite his size)
-Elite Decision Making (very rarely makes the wrong throw, and very often makes the perfect one at the perfect time. Also knows precisely when to run and when not to run)
-Elite Pocket Presence (deadly when combined with his athleticism; very good at buying time, sensing the rush and still getting the ball away)
-Elite Accuracy (ball rarely is off target, which is a big reason why he rarely turns the ballover. Mechanics and footwork are nearly perfect)
-Elite Athleticism (very quick and very strong acceleration; his understanding of when to run and pass-first mentality combined with his athleticism make it especially dangerous)
-Elite Intangibles (extremely intelligent, strong fortitude, and an elite team leader; was able to transfer from NC State to a bigger program in Wisconsin and become team captain immediately while still mastering their offense and leading them to Rose Bowl. Entered NFL and immediately became a team leader)

Quote: Has Wilson ever carved up a secondary when they knew the pass was coming?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...090crd.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...280det.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...020chi.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...250mia.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...080car.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...060clt.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...130sea.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...020sea.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/bo...130atl.htm

Quote:Do the receivers make Wilson or does Wilson make the receivers?

Wilson does not have an elite receiving corps, if that is what you are asking.

Quote:Despite constantly pounding the rock, Wilson took 44 sacks.

You simply assume that the 2013 Seahawks had a great O-Line. Most of that unit was out injured for the majority of the season, and for most of the year the squad counted on a mix of backups (some more serviceable than others) to hold things together. It often didn't work so well.

The team kept winning anyway, thanks in large part to the fact that Wilson's escapability, accuracy and elite decisionmaking allow him to perform well even under intense pressure:

Quote:Wilson's statistics are very misleading. They don't take into account the cracks that he has covered on the Seahawks offense with his ability to elevate the play of his teammates. No, that is not a reference to his celebrated leadership qualities. It's a reference to what he has consistently done on the field from week-to-week.
For long stretches of this season, the Seahawks offense has been missing key players because of injury. Starting wide receiver Percy Harvin, who was acquired in the offseason to diversify the passing attack, has played just one game all year because of a hip injury. Sidney Rice, the team's second starting wide receiver, entered the season with injury issues before he tore his ACL and was placed on IR after Week 8. Losing Harvin and Rice hurt, but not as much as playing without both starting offensive tackles for an extended period. Starting left tackle Russell Okung was placed on short-term IR after tearing a ligament in his toe before Week 3, while starting right tackle Breno Giacomini missed seven games because of a knee injury suffered against the Jacksonville Jaguars in Week 3.

If you're going to regularly deploy the "O-Line sucked" argument for Luck, you'll need to accept its application to other QBs as well. Luck is not the only QB in the league with an O-Line that has struggled recently. Russell Wilson's injury-plagued line this year was no better than Indy's unit.

Quote:He also holds on to the ball way too long despite being surrounded by an above average WR corps. He held the ball the longest among all QBs last season.

Russell Wilson does not have an above average receiving corps. Two of the top 3 targets that might have made it an above average group (Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin) were walking wounded for most of the year, leaving only Golden Tate. Baldwin and Kearse are serviceable players but by no means did they create an above average receiving corps. T.Y. Hilton is a more dangerous player than any of the names I mentioned above, sans Harvin (who, again, wasn't playing much this year).

Russell Wilson does not hold onto the ball longer than he needs to in order to be effective, as his results have clearly proven.

Quote:He also has a very slow release.

No, he does not:

Quote:Just as Wilson turns back to find Jermaine Kearse and let the ball go for a touchdown, McCoy arrives. Wilson's quick release allows him to let the ball go with perfect accuracy

I have not seen a single scouting report noting Wilson's release as "very slow", and I haven't seen that on film either. His release is more than adequately quick for an NFL QB.

Quote:When going up against above average defenses, Wilson is very subpar.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331017022
http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331202026
http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331215019
http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331013026
http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331028014
http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331229026
http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330908029
http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=340119026
http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331215019

All of the above link to gamelogs from contests in which Wilson led the Seahwaks against defenses that were above average (top 15 or better) in the NFL by points and yards allowed per game (as well as yards per play) according to NFL.com.
The evidence shows that your statement ("Wilson is very sub-par against above average defenses") is really not accurate. He has regularly shown competence in the face of strong defenses.

Here also is a scouting report on Wilson in which his performance against several above-average defenses (Rams, Cardinals, Saints) is analyzed. The results were far from "sub-par".

The degree to which you underrate Wilson (as evidence by statements like these which are categorically untrue and easily proven as such) is bordering on the absurd.

Quote:Its because of Flacco the ravens went 8-8. Ray Rice averaged 3.1 YPC and Bernard Pierce averaged 2.9 YPC. The ravens had no run game.

They had no passing game either. Flacco shares some of the blame for that and some of the blame for their mediocre season this year. He's not a Top 10 QB.

Quote:IMO

1-Brees
2-Manning
3-Brady
4-Luck
5-Rodgers
6-Foles
7-Rivers
8-Newton
9-Romo
10-Stafford

My goodness, we've officially jumped off the deep end. Let us take a step back here.

I love Russell Wilson. I am one of his biggest defenders anywhere online. I've gotten into very lengthy debates with other users on this forum in my bid to defend him (these came before you registered here but can easily be found if you look at some of the earlier pages in this thread). I truly am one of his biggest fans, and I really do believe in him.

Even I would not argue that Russell Wilson is a Top 5 quarterback. Wilson may be one of my favorite quarterbacks, but I simply can't justify the argument so I do not make it. I seem him fitting more clearly into the 8-10 range.

That you have gone as far as to make the absurd claim that Andrew Luck is a Top 5 QB and also superior to Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo and Ben Roethlisberger (all of whom have accomplished far more on the professional level as passers than Luck has) says a lot about your stance on this topic and how far from reality it really is. Andrew Luck is not a Top 5 QB.

Quote:all those QBs are better than Wilson. Wilson is almost as overrated as Matty ice.

Brees, Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Rivers, Romo, Roethlisberger

Those are the QBs that can be objectively labelled superior to Russell Wilson right now. All are firmly in the Top 10. I'll put Foles in that group only if I see him expand his sampel size by replicating his 2013 form next season.

Stafford, Luck, and Newton have done absolutely nothing to justify the notion that they are superior to Russell Wilson. They do not compare favorably on a statistical basis nor do they outdo Wilson with regard to results on the field.

Quote:EDIT: His stats are almost identical to Alex Smith. Is Alex Smith a top 10 QB too?

"Almost identical"? On what planet, precisely?

Alex Smith
QB Rating: 89.1
Completion Percentage: 60.6%
Yards: 3313 (6.52 average)
TDs: 23
INTs: 7
DVOA: -3.7%
DYAR: 262

Russell Wilson
QB Rating: 101.2
Completion Percentage: 63.1
Yards: 3357 (8.25 average)
TDs: 26
INTs: 9
DVOA: 15.6%
DYAR: 770

Russell Wilson is more efficient than Alex Smith. He is more accurate than Alex Smith. He is a better decisionmaker than Alex Smith (superior TD/INT ratio and lower INT%). He makes far longer, more challenging passes than Alex Smith, as evidenced by the wide gap in their yards per attempt (read: Check downs and easy short "dink and dunk" plays are a much larger part of Smith's numbes than they are of Wilson's; when Wilson throws, he is less likely to be making short, easy passes and more likely to test a defense downfield).
Wilson is a better athlete than Smith. He has a much stronger arm. He has superior mechanics. He brings more value per play . He is much further above replacement level (and he is, therefore, far less replaceable).

Alex Smith is not a Top 10 QB and his statistics are by no means identical to Wilson's. Alex Smith is, in fact, a poor man's Russell Wilson. Though his efficiency, accuracy and decisionmaking are all great by NFL standards, they are decidedly inferior to Wilson's. The Kansas City Chiefs are a solid preview of what you could expect the Seahawks to be in the event that Wilson were exchanged for Smith. There is a substantial performance gap between these two players and the quality of Seattle's QB play would decrease by a significant margin (though it would still be somewhat above average).
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 03:53 AM by Excelsior.)
04-24-2014 03:50 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Excelsior's post:
Eastside, Blaster
Excelsior Offline
Innovative Casanova
*******
Gold Member

Posts: 15,023
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation: 218
Post: #891
RE: NFL thread
(04-24-2014 12:30 AM)L M McCoy Wrote:  Without Luck the colts are a 2-14 team. With him they are a 11-5 team.

The 2013 Colts absent Luck are not good, but they are substantially better than 2-14. This is not the 2011 unit we're talking about here. The 2013 Colts had a much more respectable squad on both sides of the ball, even when compared to their 2012 unit (which itself was a lot better than the 2011 squad).

Quote:Packers were able to make the playoffs despite missing Rodgers. Do you think the colts could have done the same without Luck?

With a backup as competent as Flynn? Yes. He is substantially better than Curtis Painter.

Quote:Despite throwing the ball more than Wilson, Luck took less sacks.

Wilson had an inferior O-Line ravaged more extensively by injury last year than most others in the league.

Quote:Luck also had no playmakers outside of Hilton last season. Can Wilson say the same?

Wilson lost 2 of his top 3 receivers to injury for the majority of the year.

[quote]Luck had no weapons last year (he made T.Y. Hilton), with the worst O-line, with a pathetic excuse of a D[/uote]

T.Y. Hilton is a genuine weapon and a dnamic athlete. You are severely underrating him in your bid to promote Luck, which is unfair to him and disingenuous of you.

The Colts did not have the league's worst O-Line in 2013. That honor went to the Arizona Cardinals, who graded out with the worst front 5 in the league (32nd). Seattle's line was statistically worse than Indy's last year (27th vs. 25th in the league), thanks in large part to injury.

Indy's defense in 2012 was very poor. The 2013 unit was much better, allowing fewer points per game than all but 8 other NFL defenses according to NFL.com. It was a solid defense, the best in its division and one of the best in the AFC.

If Luck is as good as you think he is ("top 5 QB"), you should not feel the need to distort the truth in order to make him look better. He had much more at his disposal than you're letting on here, and the 2013 Colts were far better than you make them sound.
04-24-2014 03:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Excelsior's post:
Eastside
2Wycked Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,607
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 130
Post: #892
RE: NFL thread
Quote:IMO

1-Brees
2-Manning
3-Brady
4-Luck
5-Rodgers

6-Foles
7-Rivers
8-Newton
9-Romo
10-Stafford

Luck over Rodgers?

[Image: 101.gif]

Old Chinese Man Wrote:  why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
04-24-2014 05:00 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Hotwheels Offline
International Playboy
******
Gold Member

Posts: 5,315
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 80
Post: #893
RE: NFL thread
^^^^LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


btw-While the Packers had Lacy go over 1000 yards last year, that was the first time in a decade or so there was a decent ground game in GB. And, his carries were boosted by Rodgers injury. Tolzien and Flynn did NOT play all that well so McCarthy ran more than he ever has. The drop off in QB play was painful to watch.

In other words, the only time the Packers have had a "decent" ground game is the year that Rodgers was out 7 games. Never mind the fact the line has not been great in pass pro his entire career either.

As far as elite playmakers go, how did Jennings do in MN last year when he didn't have Rodgers tossing him the ball?

__________________________________________________

When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
04-24-2014 05:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Avarence Offline
Wingman
***
Gold Member

Posts: 615
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 0
Post: #894
RE: NFL thread
(04-23-2014 11:51 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  IMO

1-Brees
2-Manning
3-Brady
4-Luck
5-Rodgers
6-Foles
7-Rivers
8-Newton
9-Romo
10-Stafford

all those QBs are better than Wilson. Wilson is almost as overrated as Matty ice.

Alright, bud.
Andrew Luck: 46 TD, 27 INT, 81.5 rating.
Russell Wilson: 52 TD, 19 INT, 100.6 rating.

Wilson is superior to Luck, hands down. End of that discussion.
This doesn't even take into account Wilson's much better rushing stats.

Here's a more accurate current top ten:

1. Rodgers
2. Manning
3. Brady
4. Brees
5. Rivers
6. Romo
7. Wilson
8. Stafford
9. Foles
10. Roethlisberger / Kaepernick

Notes:

- I'm a big fan of Nick Foles. Just need to see a little more.
- Hard to leave Ben and his two rings off of the top ten.
- I think Wilson will eventually be higher, but again, need to see more. (SB ring a good start)

Poor stretches happen to all players. Wilson had one, but his body of work overall is superior to that of several players you claim are better than he is somehow. (Luck and Newton, specifically)
04-24-2014 10:09 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
kosko Offline
Innovative Casanova
*******
Gold Member

Posts: 6,778
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 146
Post: #895
RE: NFL thread
Russell Wilson is the smartest guy in the NFL.

More proof?

nesn.com/2014/04/seahawks-qb-russell-wilson-files-for-divorce-from-wife-of-two-years/

He and his bride are splitting up after two years as a divorce has been filed by HIM. So either she was being a sneaky bitch and fucking around, or Russell is playing this as a pure business move as he is about to shoot up into the stratosphere with his value and earnings.

So when he is making 15 million a year she won't get a dime of that shit.

Russell Wilson only makes 600K a year and he isn't even the highest paid QB on the team. Pryor and Jackson both make more as backups...

Having to break of half of that is peanuts for him long term. My hope that any alimony if forced would be pegged of that amount also. Where is @WestCoast with the number crunch on this.
04-24-2014 10:28 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
MidWest Offline
Banned

Posts: 1,458
Joined: Jan 2013
Post: #896
RE: NFL thread
ROMO AND STAFFORD OVER CUTLER??????ConfusedConfusedConfusedConfusedConfused

Cutler has the strongest arm in the NFL.

ROMO OVER CUTLER??????

Laugh4




Cutler is the real deal


04-24-2014 11:15 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
samsamsam Offline
Innovative Casanova
*******
Gold Member

Posts: 9,157
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 92
Post: #897
RE: NFL thread
(04-24-2014 10:28 AM)kosko Wrote:  Having to break of half of that is peanuts for him long term. My hope that any alimony if forced would be pegged of that amount also.

I wonder how that works after his career is over. Hopefully, he will have good advisors and he can make a bunch of investments etc.

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You cannot withstand the storm." And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm."

Women and children can be careless, but not men - Don Corleone

Great RVF Comments | Where Evil Resides | How to upload, etc. | New Members Read This 1 | New Members Read This 2
04-24-2014 11:32 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Avarence Offline
Wingman
***
Gold Member

Posts: 615
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 0
Post: #898
RE: NFL thread
Romo has 53 more touchdowns and 11 less interceptions than Cutler. And a better rating.
Jay Cutler is a barely above-average QB who does not belong in the top ten.
04-24-2014 11:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
L M McCoy Offline
Banned

Posts: 1,346
Joined: Feb 2014
Post: #899
RE: NFL thread
(04-24-2014 05:53 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  ^^^^LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


btw-While the Packers had Lacy go over 1000 yards last year, that was the first time in a decade or so there was a decent ground game in GB. And, his carries were boosted by Rodgers injury. Tolzien and Flynn did NOT play all that well so McCarthy ran more than he ever has. The drop off in QB play was painful to watch.

In other words, the only time the Packers have had a "decent" ground game is the year that Rodgers was out 7 games. Never mind the fact the line has not been great in pass pro his entire career either.

As far as elite playmakers go, how did Jennings do in MN last year when he didn't have Rodgers tossing him the ball?

I know the packers have never had a run game with Rodgers in there I just believe that he is overrated due to the scheme he is in. He's obviously a top 5 QB

Jennings could have done much better with A.P. throwing him the ball
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 02:48 PM by L M McCoy.)
04-24-2014 02:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
L M McCoy Offline
Banned

Posts: 1,346
Joined: Feb 2014
Post: #900
RE: NFL thread
Wilson has a high QBR and a good TD to INT ratio because he is a game manager


The rams were rated as 19th in the league in passing yards and the cardinals were 14

I don't see how those are good secondaries.

Wilson's stats are almost identical to Smith's minus the QBR and I think we all know how flawed the QBR stat actually is.

If you want to go based off QBR than Nick Foles is the best QB in the league.

Indy's D had good statistics because of playing the subpar teams in its division.

I am making my claims based off of strictly last season. Put Luck or Newton on the seahawks and you would have a better team.

I can claim that Tebow has a great body of work and is a film rat. Does that make Tebow a good QB?

By saying Luck's o-line was the worst I was meant pass blocking. IDK if pro football focus has one for solely pass blocking. I will stand corrected.

I admit the 2013 colts weren't as bad is I made them sound them but its hard to imagine Wilson could even come close to sniffing the same success as Luck has had with the colts.

if a defense is ranked as #15 that is averaged seeing as how there are 32 teams.

I'm not hating on Wilson, I just don't think he is a top 5 QB YET and I think he is way too overrated.


Russell wilson has thrown for over 300 yards just 2 times

When the seahawks made the playoffs his rookie year, he threw for 0 300 yard games. How do you not call that overrated?
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 02:47 PM by L M McCoy.)
04-24-2014 02:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication