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NFL thread
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Hotwheels Offline
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Post: #926
RE: NFL thread
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04-25-2014 07:17 PM
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RE: NFL thread
(04-25-2014 06:59 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  
(04-25-2014 06:57 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  ^^ Is he a unicorn? What is that sticking out of his head Smile
Its greatness... It just comes out of him and his beefy body in many ways, shapes, and forms. Mostly through excellent quarterback skills tho.

Still waiting for the strap on joke...

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04-25-2014 07:34 PM
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Post: #928
RE: NFL thread
(04-25-2014 07:34 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  
(04-25-2014 06:59 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  
(04-25-2014 06:57 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  ^^ Is he a unicorn? What is that sticking out of his head Smile
Its greatness... It just comes out of him and his beefy body in many ways, shapes, and forms. Mostly through excellent quarterback skills tho.

Still waiting for the strap on joke...
There shall be no strap on jokes made about the greatest quarterback to ever play the game!

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04-25-2014 10:46 PM
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Avarence Offline
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RE: NFL thread
(04-24-2014 11:29 PM)Excelsior Wrote:  Any person who has seen Russell Wilson play (I'm beginning to seriously doubt that you are one of them) or knows how to read the available statistics understands clearly that this is not how Wilson plays. Game managers are not asked to do the things Wilson does, and they are not capable of making the gamechanging plays (in the air and on the ground) that Wilson has consistently made in his first to years. A player with Wlson's DYAR and DVOA cannot logically be considered a game manager - those statistics measure value added by a given player, and only a player who does more than manage a game could possible do well in either measure. A game manager, by definition, would have a poor DYAR and DVOA in addition to a very low yards-per-attempt and a lack of production on the ground. Wilson simply isn't a game manager - end of story.

I'm a Seahawks fan obviously, but this exact paragraph has been the core of my argument from day one. Game Managers are not capable of changing the game. That's why they're referred to as 'managers', who can only damage-control the mistakes they make and capitalize on some opportunities. They can only take what's given to them. This is not the case with Russell Wilson. He can single-handedly change the game, like he did so many times scrambling on third down and letting a pass go. Or when Seattle was down to the Niners 10-0 in the NFC Championship Game and he scrambled around for what seemed like full minutes before launching a 60-yard deep ball to set up first and goal. Early in the 2013-14 season, Seattle was missing all but one of their offensive line starters. This would have doomed any immobile quarterback (Think the darling Peyton Manning). Wilson's elusiveness and ability to scramble and make terrific throws on the run saved the Seattle season multiple times. (Honorable mention to Doug Baldwin for hauling in a ton of clutch-time passes from Wilson as well)

The analytics (DYAR, DVOA) and even basic stats like TD/INT, QBR speak for themselves. L McCoy or whatever seems to think raw passing yards are the only measurement of a quarterback's ability. Laugh
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2014 09:19 AM by Avarence.)
04-26-2014 09:17 AM
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L M McCoy Offline
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RE: NFL thread
"I'm a Seahawks fan obviously, but this exact paragraph has been the core of my argument from day one. Game Managers are not capable of changing the game. That's why they're referred to as 'managers', who can only damage-control the mistakes they make and capitalize on some opportunities. They can only take what's given to them. This is not the case with Russell Wilson. He can single-handedly change the game, like he did so many times scrambling on third down and letting a pass go. Or when Seattle was down to the Niners 10-0 in the NFC Championship Game and he scrambled around for what seemed like full minutes before launching a 60-yard deep ball to set up first and goal. Early in the 2013-14 season, Seattle was missing all but one of their offensive line starters. This would have doomed any immobile quarterback (Think the darling Peyton Manning). Wilson's elusiveness and ability to scramble and make terrific throws on the run saved the Seattle season multiple times. (Honorable mention to Doug Baldwin for hauling in a ton of clutch-time passes from Wilson as well)

The analytics (DYAR, DVOA) and even basic stats like TD/INT, QBR speak for themselves. L McCoy or whatever seems to think raw passing yards are the only measurement of a quarterback's ability. Laugh"


"I'm a Seahawks fan obviously," logical fallacy. Oh because you're a seahawks fan your an expert on anything relating to the team?

You obviously didn't read a single thing I wrote as I questioned his arm strength, pocket presence, and release. the seahawks missed only 3 starters on the o-line and Manning was also missing 3 starters on the o-line.

As for your statement about how missing starters on the o-line would doom any immobile QB, Nick Foles in his rookie season had McCoy out and all of the starters on the o-line except for evan mathis. Did you see what Tannehill (although he's pretty mobile) was able to do with that wreck of an offensive line? Philip Rivers in 2011 did fairly without with a shitty o-line.

A game manager can have a big yards per attempt if he were to have go off of PA with a very strong running game as the D is mostly concerned with stopping the run game. You can throw the ball 6 times for 150 yards, your YPA will obviously look good but you can't say the QB carried the team. I will say its because of Wilson that the seahawks can repeat this season but Wilson isn't going to lead his team there. The fact that he has thrown for only 3 300 yard games proves that he isn't being asked to do much. The fact that his YPA is high is probably due to teams attempting to stop the running game allowing him to go off of PA and gash the secondary. We saw what Matt Flynn is able to do in GB and we all saw how he couldn't even get the starting job in oakland. A good team can make an average QB look above average.

passing yards typically show the amount of times your throwing the ball (you throw the ball more, you get more passing yards) which is why I think its a significant stat when discussing Wilson.

All I was trying to say was that if you can throw for 150 yards per game and win, you clearly aren't putting the team on your back. How can a QB who doesn't put the team on his back be in the top 10 discussion? all of that being said, Excelsior has made me question my former stance on Wilson
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2014 03:02 PM by L M McCoy.)
04-26-2014 02:45 PM
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L M McCoy Offline
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RE: NFL thread
(04-24-2014 04:23 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  ^^ Should have used gloves on his pro day. I think he will be a good qb. Not sure about being a franchise qb.

I think its a smokescreen that all these scouts are saying he's a "2nd round pick"

IDK why he didn't throw with a glove.
04-26-2014 02:51 PM
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samsamsam Offline
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RE: NFL thread
(04-26-2014 02:51 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  
(04-24-2014 04:23 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  ^^ Should have used gloves on his pro day. I think he will be a good qb. Not sure about being a franchise qb.

I think its a smokescreen that all these scouts are saying he's a "2nd round pick"

IDK why he didn't throw with a glove.

[Image: mjglove.jpg]

He couldn't find the one he wanted to use. Smile

In all seriousness, he is better than Carr and Carr is mocking into late 1st.

Bridgewater is a tough son of a bitch, plays through pain. And his tape is solid. Someone is getting a good player if he drops.

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04-26-2014 03:00 PM
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L M McCoy Offline
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RE: NFL thread
(04-26-2014 03:00 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  
(04-26-2014 02:51 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  
(04-24-2014 04:23 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  ^^ Should have used gloves on his pro day. I think he will be a good qb. Not sure about being a franchise qb.

I think its a smokescreen that all these scouts are saying he's a "2nd round pick"

IDK why he didn't throw with a glove.

[Image: mjglove.jpg]

He couldn't find the one he wanted to use. Smile

In all seriousness, he is better than Carr and Carr is mocking into late 1st.

Bridgewater is a tough son of a bitch, plays through pain. And his tape is solid. Someone is getting a good player if he drops.

The knock on him: "he doesn't excel in one area." He shows great poise, has great footwork, and displays excellent pocket presence.

No way the jags pass up on him IMO
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2014 03:06 PM by L M McCoy.)
04-26-2014 03:05 PM
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RE: NFL thread
He is more pro ready, not the highest ceiling. But if you put talent around him, you can win. But I don't think the Jags can afford the risk at #3 pick. Trade back or get a franchise offensive tackle or defensive player. Someone you can slot in for 10 years. Gotta win in the trenches.

Plenty of QBs who could have been good got destroyed by being on bad teams, or good teams with weak offensive lines.

If Gabbert had a good team around him, he might have been ok. But now he is playing for the Niners, I bet they rehabilitate him.

Surprised you didn't tie bridgewater to wilson Biggrin

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04-26-2014 03:12 PM
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RE: NFL thread
hahaha! What makes you say that? I want my team to draft teddy.
04-26-2014 03:26 PM
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RE: NFL thread
(04-26-2014 03:26 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  hahaha! What makes you say that? I want my team to draft teddy.

just teasing over your exchange with Excelsior about Wilson. To be honest I glanced maybe you guys were not discussing wilson. I just start tuning out on that QB stuff. There should just be a thread to debate the QBs and leave it off this thread Laugh

I am confused I thought you were an eagles fan. But you said Jags should draft bridgewater.

Eagles don't need Bridgewater. Foles will get it done like last year. Need someone to replace gang banger (jk) desean jackson. Maybe cooks/lee.

On a separate note been following a mock draft.

They are doing team by team drafting with analysis. These are fans. They are up the Raiders pick in the second. Scroll down and you can see all the picks.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/4/26/56...nd-raiders

These guys had the Eagles grabbing Verrett.

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(This post was last modified: 04-26-2014 03:38 PM by samsamsam.)
04-26-2014 03:34 PM
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RE: NFL thread
(04-26-2014 02:45 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  As for your statement about how missing starters on the o-line would doom any immobile QB, Nick Foles in his rookie season had McCoy out and all of the starters on the o-line except for evan mathis. Did you see what Tannehill (although he's pretty mobile) was able to do with that wreck of an offensive line? Philip Rivers in 2011 did fairly without with a shitty o-line.

Wilson had the worst pass blocking O-Line in the league, worse than Tannehill, and yet has done substantially better in just about every major statistical passing category .

Foles wasn't great his rookie year, so I don't see your point there - if anything, the battered O-Line he had then might explain in part why he was so much better in 2013. Same goes for Rivers, whose 2011 season was well below his usually high standard.

Quote:A game manager can have a big yards per attempt if he were to have go off of PA with a very strong running game as the D is mostly concerned with stopping the run game.

Sounds good in theory, but never actually happens. You're going to see that just about every true game manager mentioned will have low yards per attempt because, despite the fact that they sometimes ought to be able to get big yards off play action, they usually are not capable of consistently taking advantage of those opportunities. They simply lack the arm talent to make it work.

Thus, in practice, a game manager cannot have big yards per attempt even if he has the benefit of PA and a strong running game. Taking advantage of such opportunities would require the game manager to do more than just manage the game (these would be gamechanging plays he is making), and he by definition lacks the ability to do this consistently. If he didn't lack that ability, he would not be a game manager. He'd be Russell Wilson.

Trent Dilfer is a great example of this. In the year 2000 (his Super Bowl winning year), Dilfer had the benefit of Jamal Lewis (a 1300+ yard rusher that year, a 2000+ yard rusher not long after that) in his prime. You'd figure that Dilfer could capitalize on this with PA and a high yards per attempt. Did he?

No. Dilfer managed a paltry 5.5 Air Yards/Attempt that season, good enough for 26th in the league among passers in the year 2000. Dilfer dinked and dunked his way to victory, making relative short and easy completions despite the potential for deep bombs off the play action. Why?

He lacked the arm talent to consistently do much more than that. That is a true game manager. Those deep passes of of PA are gamechanging plays, and Dilfer couldn't make them very often. He had to stick to managing the game with more limited efforts in the passing game - short pass here, dink and dunk there, etc.

To put his paltry numbers in perspective, Russell Wilson managed 8.5 Air Yards/Attempt in 2013. That was good for 6th in the league. That's on par with names like Brees and behind only the likes of Rodgers and Manning (Foles was #1). Why is Wilson able to test defenses so much more?

Because he has the arm talent to actually change a game. As an offensive coordinator, you can trust him to make a defense pay down the field because he has the accuracy, mechanics, decisionmaking and arm-strength to do so consistently. Game managers cannot be trusted in that way (no matter how good his RB, O-Line or Receivers are), which is why I continue to insist that Russell Wilson is not a game manager.

Quote:The fact that his YPA is high is probably due to teams attempting to stop the running game allowing him to go off of PA and gash the secondary. We saw what Matt Flynn is able to do in GB and we all saw how he couldn't even get the starting job in oakland. A good team can make an average QB look above average.

Again, game managers lack the arm talent to consistently take advantage of the play action in the way you described here. Flynn is a good case in point. He managed 6.6 Air Yards/Attempt in 2013, good for just 22nd in the league.
With the same squad, Rodgers managed 9.0 Air Yards/Attempt, good for 4th in the league. Wilson, as I noted earlier, managed 8.5 Air Yards/Attempt in Seattle despite having the least effective pass blocking O-Line in the league (certainly inferior to Flynn's).

Why are Wilson and Rodgers' YPA so high? Because of their arm talent. These are game changers, not game managers. High YPA stats are much harder to achieve than you are implying here, and that is the reason why relatively few QBs ever manage to get much more than 6 or 7 Air Yards/Attempt in a given season. Only a few players have the arm talent to consistently challenge defenses in that way.

Matt Flynn is a game manager. He's a solid backup worth a couple million a year for his ability to bridge you over a few games and earn a few wins, and that's it.

Players like Wilson and Rodgers are in another league entirely. Both are Top 10 QBs (Rodgers Top 5). Arm talent is the difference.

Quote:passing yards typically show the amount of times your throwing the ball (you throw the ball more, you get more passing yards) which is why I think its a significant stat when discussing Wilson.

The truth is that passing yards mean relatively little in the face of all of the other crucial statistics we're discussing here (DYAR, DVOA, cmp. %, AYPA, TD/INT ratio, TD %, INT %, QBR). Your analysis of Wilson is too heavily focused on that measure, as it simply doesn't say as much about his quality as a QB as those other statistics do in combination.

Quote:all of that being said, Excelsior has made me question my former stance on Wilson

Good.
04-26-2014 04:27 PM
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L M McCoy Offline
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RE: NFL thread
(04-26-2014 03:34 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  
(04-26-2014 03:26 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  hahaha! What makes you say that? I want my team to draft teddy.

just teasing over your exchange with Excelsior about Wilson. To be honest I glanced maybe you guys were not discussing wilson. I just start tuning out on that QB stuff. There should just be a thread to debate the QBs and leave it off this thread Laugh

I am confused I thought you were an eagles fan. But you said Jags should draft bridgewater.

Eagles don't need Bridgewater. Foles will get it done like last year. Need someone to replace gang banger (jk) desean jackson. Maybe cooks/lee.

On a separate note been following a mock draft.

They are doing team by team drafting with analysis. These are fans. They are up the Raiders pick in the second. Scroll down and you can see all the picks.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/4/26/56...nd-raiders

These guys had the Eagles grabbing Verrett.

I should clarify,If Bridgewater falls to the 22nd I want the eagles to get him. The jags should get Bridgewater because we've seen how much a QB can elevate a team. I think they could flip him into a higher pick eventually. Eagles won't take Verrett, "Big people beat up little people." Kelly will stand by those words (I hope). The Eagles should get Kelvin Benjamin in the 2nd as he is an amazing run blocker. I'm still hoping Calvin Pryor falls to 22nd. Anyone else notice how Pryor shrunk by like 3 inches? I think Maclin will out perform Jackson this upcoming season. Also there is no pressing need at WR seeing a show Kelly put Ertz in as a slot WR later on in the season.

If a kicker isn't drafted, I'm going to organize a boycott.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2014 05:46 PM by L M McCoy.)
04-26-2014 05:43 PM
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Post: #939
RE: NFL thread
(04-26-2014 02:45 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  "I'm a Seahawks fan obviously," logical fallacy. Oh because you're a seahawks fan your an expert on anything relating to the team?

You are brutal at reading. Don't become an editor.
Notice the 'but' you left out right after I said that first sentence. I was admitting bias, not claiming to be an expert.

However, I have obviously watched many more games than you.
04-29-2014 09:55 AM
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L M McCoy Offline
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RE: NFL thread
(04-29-2014 09:55 AM)Avarence Wrote:  
(04-26-2014 02:45 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  "I'm a Seahawks fan obviously," logical fallacy. Oh because you're a seahawks fan your an expert on anything relating to the team?

You are brutal at reading. Don't become an editor.
Notice the 'but' you left out right after I said that first sentence. I was admitting bias, not claiming to be an expert.

However, I have obviously watched many more games than you.

Hamster3

calm down bro, notice how even though many people have different views on a subject/topic nobody throws shots at each other?
04-30-2014 12:26 AM
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RE: NFL thread
[Image: winston1.png]

[Image: winston3.jpg]

[Image: winston4.jpg]

[Image: winston5.jpg]

[Image: winston10.jpg]
04-30-2014 05:14 PM
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RE: NFL thread
[Image: 10177413_780749011991173_807814545985863721_n.jpg]
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04-30-2014 05:48 PM
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RE: NFL thread
(04-30-2014 05:48 PM)Professor Fox Wrote:  [Image: 10177413_780749011991173_807814545985863721_n.jpg]

http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-35577-...14759.html

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04-30-2014 05:58 PM
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RE: NFL thread
(04-30-2014 05:58 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-35577-...14759.html

Wave

You need a bigger monitor!

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04-30-2014 06:04 PM
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L M McCoy Offline
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RE: NFL thread
Those Jameis pictures almost made me die of laughter.

Did you guys read about he was stealing soda at Burger King by filling the ketchup cups?
05-01-2014 12:14 AM
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RE: NFL thread
[Image: 10299146_630499777034973_7375997212930611508_n.jpg]
05-04-2014 08:45 PM
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RE: NFL thread
(04-26-2014 05:43 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  
(04-26-2014 03:34 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  
(04-26-2014 03:26 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  hahaha! What makes you say that? I want my team to draft teddy.

just teasing over your exchange with Excelsior about Wilson. To be honest I glanced maybe you guys were not discussing wilson. I just start tuning out on that QB stuff. There should just be a thread to debate the QBs and leave it off this thread Laugh

I am confused I thought you were an eagles fan. But you said Jags should draft bridgewater.

Eagles don't need Bridgewater. Foles will get it done like last year. Need someone to replace gang banger (jk) desean jackson. Maybe cooks/lee.

On a separate note been following a mock draft.

They are doing team by team drafting with analysis. These are fans. They are up the Raiders pick in the second. Scroll down and you can see all the picks.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/4/26/56...nd-raiders

These guys had the Eagles grabbing Verrett.

I should clarify,If Bridgewater falls to the 22nd I want the eagles to get him. The jags should get Bridgewater because we've seen how much a QB can elevate a team. I think they could flip him into a higher pick eventually. Eagles won't take Verrett, "Big people beat up little people." Kelly will stand by those words (I hope). The Eagles should get Kelvin Benjamin in the 2nd as he is an amazing run blocker. I'm still hoping Calvin Pryor falls to 22nd. Anyone else notice how Pryor shrunk by like 3 inches? I think Maclin will out perform Jackson this upcoming season. Also there is no pressing need at WR seeing a show Kelly put Ertz in as a slot WR later on in the season.

If a kicker isn't drafted, I'm going to organize a boycott.

Man I just don't see Bridgewater slipping down to 22 - even though I've seen a few mock drafts have him that low (and seen him as high as #5 though too). I suspect if he's hanging around after the top 10 picks somebody will trade up or make a move.

Looks like Manziel probably goes to the Browns...but might slip down to Oakland...kinda like the thought of him playing for the Raiders....

2015 RVF fantasy football champion
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2014 09:26 PM by Akula.)
05-04-2014 09:25 PM
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RE: NFL thread
NFL Draft prospect Sam selected winner of Arthur Ashe Courage Award

Lol. Otherwise known as The Most Likely To Get AIDS Award.
05-07-2014 11:10 AM
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RE: NFL thread
Ok guys so tomorrow is the big day, the NFL draft. Who do you think your favorite team is going to pick with their first round picks??

Im a Bears fan and they are in need of a DT and a Safety. I really hope they get Aaron Donald DT from Pitt. Dude is a beast and he will fit perfectly with the added additions of Jaren Allen and Lamar Houston. Hope he falls at the 14th pick.






If Donald is gone before the Bears pick I really hope they get Calvin Pryor FS from Louisville. Hes a hard hitting safety who really fits in with guys like Briggs and others.
05-07-2014 04:10 PM
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RE: NFL thread
Bears will be drafting a safety. Major Wright and Chris Conte were the worst and 2nd worst safeties in the NFL respectively. Emery loves upside (Kyle Long, Shea Mcclellin). He spent all of FA fixing the D-line, I think he goes for the back end with a safety.

I don't think Pryor projects to FS at the next level.

He doesn't fit what the bears want; He is a head hunter and gets lost fairly easily when in coverage

The bears need a safety like Jimmie Ward
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2014 06:57 PM by L M McCoy.)
05-07-2014 06:29 PM
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