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3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
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The Beast1 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
Selfish of him to refuse medication .

If he's paranoid already, trying to get him to water fast won't work as he'll be paranoid to you too.

Has he been forcibly committed? It's a shame, but sometimes it's the only way.

Shalom Alechem!
06-05-2019 10:12 PM
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911 Online
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Post: #52
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
(06-05-2019 09:01 PM)Laner Wrote:  My 21yo cousin was just diagnosed with schizophrenia. The family is naturally pretty devastated, but no one really knows much about it or what to do.

His biological mother admitted to the doctor that her father suffered from it, but with medication he lived a normal life. My cousin is refusing medication though, which I am not sure is a good idea.

He is a natural for the RVF. Last time we hung out it was all about lifting, money, self improvement, etc. He lives in what is essentially a frat, but none of these guys went to university. They all said "fuck it" and started their own hustles.

Things came to a point when he started acting paranoid to his parents thinking that he had money coming his way. He would act confused when my uncle would say that, "No, he wasn't getting his inheritance early". He went to the hospital for some tests by himself, but this was enough to trigger my uncle into going with him.

After a bunch of tests with specialists, and then his biological mom admission of illness in her family, they diagnosed it. He was super close to all us in the family, but lately has completely turned on my aunt (his mom) and is almost sickened by her presence.

All this is pretty sad and hard on the family and not sure what I can do or what advice I am looking for, but to see a kid with so much potential have his spark snuffed out like this is heartbreaking.

Was he a pot smoker? It does exacerbate the situation.

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06-05-2019 10:26 PM
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Post: #53
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
(06-05-2019 10:26 PM)911 Wrote:  Was he a pot smoker? It does exacerbate the situation.

Good point.
Drug use of any kind is very dangerous if you have a family history of schizophrenia.


(06-05-2019 10:12 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  If he's paranoid already, trying to get him to water fast won't work as he'll be paranoid to you too.

He has to want to water fast...no one can force him.
Fasting is a million times safer and more effective than bullshit crazy medication that effectively neuters you. A lot cheaper too.

(06-05-2019 10:12 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Has he been forcibly committed? It's a shame, but sometimes it's the only way.

What a dangerous line of advice.
Unless he is a danger to himself or others, theres no reason to forcibly commit a person.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2019 10:35 PM by Caduceus.)
06-05-2019 10:32 PM
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eradicator Offline
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Post: #54
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
Laner, he needs medication, that’s his only chance. Yes the side effects are potent but that is the only way he can lead a somewhat healthy life

Team yoga pants
[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UoeQOC-5iw&t=143s[/video]
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2019 10:38 PM by eradicator.)
06-05-2019 10:38 PM
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The Beast1 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
(06-05-2019 10:32 PM)Caduceus Wrote:  
(06-05-2019 10:12 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  If he's paranoid already, trying to get him to water fast won't work as he'll be paranoid to you too.

He has to want to water fast...no one can force him.
Fasting is a million times safer and more effective than bullshit crazy medication that effectively neuters you. A lot cheaper too.

(06-05-2019 10:12 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Has he been forcibly committed? It's a shame, but sometimes it's the only way.

What a dangerous line of advice.
Unless he is a danger to himself or others, theres no reason to forcibly commit a person.



Meh, we can disagree but the reality is most of the time these people can't hold down jobs, turn into homeless vagrants, and then get put into the criminal justice system because of petty crime.

The world was a better place when state insane asylums existed. Living in squalor and filth versus 3 square meals, medical care, and a warm bed is a better deal.

Sometimes you have to force people to do something they don't like, especially when they're hearing a symphony of voices telling them not to.

Shalom Alechem!
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2019 11:13 PM by The Beast1.)
06-05-2019 11:13 PM
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Post: #56
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
Naah. The people who created religion were conniving power hungry elites who sought to control people. Much like the elites today. They knowingly made up their religious tales.

Don't debate me.
06-05-2019 11:30 PM
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Hephaestus Offline
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Post: #57
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
(06-05-2019 09:01 PM)Laner Wrote:  His biological mother admitted to the doctor that her father suffered from it, but with medication he lived a normal life. My cousin is refusing medication though, which I am not sure is a good idea.

He is a natural for the RVF. Last time we hung out it was all about lifting, money, self improvement, etc. He lives in what is essentially a frat, but none of these guys went to university. They all said "fuck it" and started their own hustles.

Ultralow carb has similar effects to long fasts when it comes to epilepsy, so maybe it'll have an equivelent effect on Schizophrenia.Huh

He's into lifting, so he would know how to handle lowcarb and intimitent fasting. Try to sell it as a way to increase his gains, obviously meds will be far more reliable, but if he is adamantly against them, it is worth a shot.

I am not a doctor, I'm an idiot on the internet, please don't follow my suggestions. I hope his condition becomes managable.
06-06-2019 04:09 AM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #58
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
Sorry to hear that Laner.

I like Peter Breggin's philosophy, although you may find his breathy psychiatrist's voice and mannerisms annoying, he has some good stuff to say.





“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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06-06-2019 12:21 PM
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Post: #59
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
He stopped all weed smoking about 6 months ago. It sounds like he felt something was off and took this step at least. His bloodwork was shiny clean.

I know he listens to guys like Rogan, who despite all his pro weed talk, is very much a huge warning horn about weed and schizophrenia. Perhaps this was what helped him make the decision.

Thanks for the info guys.
06-06-2019 12:58 PM
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Post: #60
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
A few days ago I was reading about the lives of killer whales in captivity and how it really messes them up to be stuck in tiny pools swimming in endless circles with few or no fellow whales. They die early, attack each other, tear up their trainers, and develop all kinds of health issues they didn't have in the wild.

I bet that humans are in the same boat as the whales. The globalist elites are doing their best to thoroughly destroy our traditions and communities. We basically don't have God or families anymore, and kids are stuck in schools that are more like jail than places of learning, so it's no surprise that normal, intelligent people are literally going insane.
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2019 01:54 PM by Lunostrelki.)
06-06-2019 01:54 PM
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Post: #61
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
(06-06-2019 12:58 PM)Laner Wrote:  Thanks for the info guys.

I don't have anything helpful to add, but I know this is a tough situation. Sorry to hear it and know everybody's pulling for your family.

Hidey-ho, RVFerinos!
06-06-2019 02:22 PM
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Post: #62
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
I have an old friend who was diagnosed with Schizophrenia as well. Quite a severe case. Drugs definitely helped trigger it. Been in and out of mental health facilities for many years now. He also refuses to take his meds, because according to him he is not sick. He has no idea why he can't keep a job and keeps getting fired for "acting strange" and talking about weird stuff. He hears voices and sees hallucinations, but he believes that is God talking to him.

If anyone has ever been up for days on something like methamphetamine, that's exactly what schizophrenia is like. Too much dopamine flooding the receptors for too long.
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2019 04:30 PM by Pinkman.)
06-06-2019 04:27 PM
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Post: #63
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
(06-17-2018 05:50 PM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  Yes, and the system of sub-selves concept of human personality (of which Jaynes Bicamerail mind is an example of) can explain all of this phenomenon. Ancient, and primitive, peoples "speak to the gods" because it is the different subselves speaking to each other as if they were distinct individuals. Such is the explanation for "possession" which is when an ego-state or sub-personality that is normally not in control gains control over the usual dominant sub-personality. Schizophrenia is also likely explainable by this paradigm.
The problem is that we currently do not have a truly scientific concept of psychology (because we still lack an understanding of neurobiology) that has allowed charatans and con-men through out history to involve themselves in and to dominate the fields of psychology or psychiatry. Perhaps we will have a truly scientific bases of psychology by, say, around 2047.

You guys keep thinking of the human brain as if it's some computer operating system, with a bunch of sub routines running in the background. This is not an accurate depiction of our biology.

Jaynes work is bullshit. Ancient people were not any more schizophrenic than we are today. There are occasions where populations may have eaten bad grains and been exposed to hallucinogens, but that was fairly uncommon.

If you actually look at the Ancient world, every major ruler attempted to name himself God and force the populace to worship him. This would have been completely impossible if each and every person heard God speak to them personally and believed some outside deity was giving them instructions. I mean could you even imagine trying to keep a society like that together? WTF?

Instead, every ruler declaring himself God was absolutely no different than the media blitz we lived through under Obama. I'm actually surprised the liberal media didn't declare him a God and begin attempting to force people to worship at gunpoint... swearing oaths of allegiance.

For the majority of the human population God's and superstition represented a very human hope to control the uncontrollable... weather, disease, battle outcomes. I believe the majority of people were essentially atheists who hedged their bets. Most groups had a priestly class that derived power and income from exhorting the "divine" to create favorable results for worshippers.

Some academics are just dipshits and we should recognize and laugh at their foolishness. Is the human mind Bicameral? Not likely.
06-06-2019 04:48 PM
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Post: #64
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
(06-05-2019 09:01 PM)Laner Wrote:  My 21yo cousin was just diagnosed with schizophrenia. The family is naturally pretty devastated, but no one really knows much about it or what to do.

His biological mother admitted to the doctor that her father suffered from it, but with medication he lived a normal life. My cousin is refusing medication though, which I am not sure is a good idea.

He is a natural for the RVF. Last time we hung out it was all about lifting, money, self improvement, etc. He lives in what is essentially a frat, but none of these guys went to university. They all said "fuck it" and started their own hustles.

Things came to a point when he started acting paranoid to his parents thinking that he had money coming his way. He would act confused when my uncle would say that, "No, he wasn't getting his inheritance early". He went to the hospital for some tests by himself, but this was enough to trigger my uncle into going with him.

After a bunch of tests with specialists, and then his biological mom admission of illness in her family, they diagnosed it. He was super close to all us in the family, but lately has completely turned on my aunt (his mom) and is almost sickened by her presence.

All this is pretty sad and hard on the family and not sure what I can do or what advice I am looking for, but to see a kid with so much potential have his spark snuffed out like this is heartbreaking.

I've hesitated to share this here but maybe it can help shed some light. A few years ago, when she was 22, my daughter had what I guess you would call "psychotic break." It was severe enough that we felt compelled to take her to the hospital where they decided to hold her against her will and put her in a mental hospital.

I'll try to keep a long story short (PM if you need more details). After a week in the mental hospital we were finally able to talk to her psychiatrist who diagnosed her as schizophreniform disorder, which would eventually lead to a diagnosis of schizophrenia.

For several weeks I felt the agony of a father losing his child. I had desperate, often tearful, conversations with anyone I knew who I felt could shed light on the situation; family and friends in the mental health field. Not much hope was given.

I eventually realized my ex-wife had a similar episode years before at roughly the same age as my daughter's. In her case it seemed that a poor diet; sugar addiction, was an underlying cause. Once she got her diet under control I wouldn't say she was fine (she was still a nightmare to be married to), but she didn't have obvious signs of mental illness.

I also found a case study of a 70 year old schizophrenic lady who was also obese, whose doctor put her on a very low carb diet to control her weight, and she subsequently became asymptomatic, which I guess has been found to be the case in roughly 10% of schizophrenics and possibly some other mental illnesses.

In my daughter's case, she had been heavily using marijuana as well as drinking quite a bit and eating a poor, junk food laden diet, and after laying off all that for about 3 weeks she was fine.

I'm sure there are some people who need to be locked away from others. Some people can be helped with medication. Some will benefit from zero or low carb diet regiments. Some, like my ex and daughter, just need to eat a relatively balanced diet and eschew marijuana. Sadly the mental health profession seems to jump right in to medication. No mental health professional I came in contact with, including my own family, mentioned the potential benefits of certain diets.

I hope this helps.
06-06-2019 06:56 PM
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Post: #65
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
I read the book years ago and, if nothing else, it's thought-provoking and I'd recommend it on that basis. Also, it's not "textbook" schizophrenia in his view, it's the fact that the corpus callousm wasn't fully developed in our ancestors, leading to the two sides of the brain being somewhat disconnected, hence the "voices" and "gods" and "visions" - it was just imperfect cross-talk that we've since evolved out of (for the most part).
06-06-2019 09:28 PM
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Post: #66
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
There is an enormous, truly gargantuan, difference in people listening to their inner voice versus the truly schizophrenic. I've been a psych nurse for over 24 years now, for those that don't know, and I can tell you that no amount of coddling and 'family love' will help a truly psychotic patient find relief of their symptoms. Symptoms may certainly fluctuate, subside, renew, over the course of time.

If you're wondering what I'm trying to get at with spectrum of symptoms, I'd be happy to give examples.
06-07-2019 10:17 AM
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Post: #67
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
(06-07-2019 10:17 AM)Solitaire Wrote:  There is an enormous, truly gargantuan, difference in people listening to their inner voice versus the truly schizophrenic. I've been a psych nurse for over 24 years now, for those that don't know, and I can tell you that no amount of coddling and 'family love' will help a truly psychotic patient find relief of their symptoms. Symptoms may certainly fluctuate, subside, renew, over the course of time.

If you're wondering what I'm trying to get at with spectrum of symptoms, I'd be happy to give examples.

Thanks.

At this point he talks to himself quite a lot. He also sits in one spot for long periods of time and doesn't seem to notice how odd it is to those around him. He might be quiet, or he might engage, or he might talk to himself.

He is very angry at his parents about how they lied to him (they didn't). He tells them that they had talked about different topics and now they are pretending that they never did. Its like he has a completely different timeline in his head.

Even the conversations I had with him last year are the complete opposite of the conversations his dad had with him last month.
06-07-2019 12:06 PM
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Post: #68
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
Marijuana use is heavily linked to this illness. Even if it's not involved in this case, I would be absolutely clear about this point. Not even one drag. Ann Coulter wrote a great article how this is already been heavily documented in the UK. For some reason it gets no traction here, but love weed or hate it, the correlation is frighteningly high.
06-07-2019 12:11 PM
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Post: #69
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
(06-07-2019 12:11 PM)Robert High Hawk Wrote:  Marijuana use is heavily linked to this illness. Even if it's not involved in this case, I would be absolutely clear about this point. Not even one drag. Ann Coulter wrote a great article how this is already been heavily documented in the UK. For some reason it gets no traction here, but love weed or hate it, the correlation is frighteningly high.

MJ defenders seem to think it's less dangerous than drinking milk. The two experiences I've had with it in my life, edible not smoking it because I abhor smoking anything, I was hallucinating severely. It was years ago now and I've only had one 'flashback' sort of episode, a feeling of unreality/floating as if the world had paused around me.

An overwhelming percentage of my inpatients admitted, whatever state I've worked in - California, Hawaii, Florida, mostly - are formally or informally dual-diagnosed with a thought or mood disorder and drug dependence. It's a complex subject which includes homelessness (which I am quite bullish about, I have some unpopular opinions on homeless issues) and other dynamics all mixed in, but yes in my experience I often see mj as a causal agent.
06-07-2019 01:57 PM
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RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
(06-07-2019 01:57 PM)Solitaire Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 12:11 PM)Robert High Hawk Wrote:  Marijuana use is heavily linked to this illness. Even if it's not involved in this case, I would be absolutely clear about this point. Not even one drag. Ann Coulter wrote a great article how this is already been heavily documented in the UK. For some reason it gets no traction here, but love weed or hate it, the correlation is frighteningly high.

MJ defenders seem to think it's less dangerous than drinking milk. The two experiences I've had with it in my life, edible not smoking it because I abhor smoking anything, I was hallucinating severely. It was years ago now and I've only had one 'flashback' sort of episode, a feeling of unreality/floating as if the world had paused around me.

An overwhelming percentage of my inpatients admitted, whatever state I've worked in - California, Hawaii, Florida, mostly - are formally or informally dual-diagnosed with a thought or mood disorder and drug dependence. It's a complex subject which includes homelessness (which I am quite bullish about, I have some unpopular opinions on homeless issues) and other dynamics all mixed in, but yes in my experience I often see mj as a causal agent.
I don't want to derail this thread but have you written anything about homeless issues? I'd be interested to read what you have to say.
06-07-2019 05:59 PM
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Post: #71
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
(06-07-2019 01:57 PM)Solitaire Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 12:11 PM)Robert High Hawk Wrote:  Marijuana use is heavily linked to this illness. Even if it's not involved in this case, I would be absolutely clear about this point. Not even one drag. Ann Coulter wrote a great article how this is already been heavily documented in the UK. For some reason it gets no traction here, but love weed or hate it, the correlation is frighteningly high.

MJ defenders seem to think it's less dangerous than drinking milk. The two experiences I've had with it in my life, edible not smoking it because I abhor smoking anything, I was hallucinating severely. It was years ago now and I've only had one 'flashback' sort of episode, a feeling of unreality/floating as if the world had paused around me.

An overwhelming percentage of my inpatients admitted, whatever state I've worked in - California, Hawaii, Florida, mostly - are formally or informally dual-diagnosed with a thought or mood disorder and drug dependence. It's a complex subject which includes homelessness (which I am quite bullish about, I have some unpopular opinions on homeless issues) and other dynamics all mixed in, but yes in my experience I often see mj as a causal agent.

Consuming marijuana versus smoking, especially as someone who has never done it before, is the equivalent of pushing someone off of a boat in the middle of the ocean without never having been in the water.

You would have been better simply not doing it at all or vaping with the understanding that technically you're not smoking.

I used to smoke everyday and have had moments where I've "heard" voices. Innocuous for the most part, but sometimes helpful.

I've since stopped completely but smoke occasionally at parties or with guests since it's now in a semi legal state in southern california. The first week of withdrawal after going day to day was horrible with sleepless nights and a lack of appetite. Thankfully working out really helped calm that down.

It's a pernicious drug that should be treated the same as alcohol. The deleterious effects sneak up on you and the withdrawal effects suck. Yeah, it won't harm your health the same way drinking does but that doesn't mean you should do it every day.

I'd love to hear your opinions (or rants Laugh) on homelessness. Please open a separate thread.

Shalom Alechem!
06-07-2019 07:09 PM
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Post: #72
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
^^ Thanks Duke & Beast for the responses. I forgot to mention that I tried my friend's vape mj once - same thing happened. But my brain is always halfway there anyway. I have synesthesia, hypnogogic nightmares, sleep paralysis, lucid dreams ... doesn't take much to put me on a higher plane of existence.

I'll gather my thoughts on homelessness, as well as find a couple links to some articles I've read recently, and start a new discussion thread. Would be interesting to hear some other opinions from members here.
06-08-2019 09:26 AM
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Post: #73
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
Great stuff Rigsby, +1 from me.

Quote:The most important thing is the 'self'. But when that fails the next most important thing is family. After that comes true friends. People who lose their 'self' and have no family or true friends are up the Swanee without a paddling device.


This can't be overstated. Love heals, it really does. I met an old poet who told me this, I thought it was naive at the time, now I know he was right. Also, if you have no family or friends, get love from wherever you can. Call listening lines, or distress lines in your city, go to a place where there are animals, a pet shop, a dog park, go to a hospital cafeteria and talk to elderly patients ( they are so lonely and will welcome a chat with anyone ). In our sphere a person named Tom Torero stopped his psyche meds after doing multiple cold approaches, he said something like "well, what do you know, getting out into the world and walking about and talking to people makes you feel normal!"

Quote:I think it's well recognized that it is probably one of the most important factors to a therapeutic relationship working. The anti-psychiatrists had a bit of a bug-bear about the inequality of the 'doctor/patient' relationship. And it's true. It's a mighty imbalance. It gives way to all kinds of subtle and not so subtle abuse, even leading sometimes to full on iatrogenic breakdowns on the part of the patient because of this fact. I have experienced this myself. There is no recourse. Therapists are not held accountable. They are above the law.

100%. I came out of a bad home, a total mess. I think five yrs of the correct therapy could have sorted me out. Unfortunately, I ended up with a bad psychologist and almost lost my mind. Lost my 20's, 30's and most of my 40's because of bad therapy.

Quote:I've found the most deepest evil and darkest shadow at the core of my 'soul'. But as Jung said, when you meet with the shadow, get to know it, then you can recognize it, compartmentalize it and even utilize it. Or was that Jordan Peterson, bucko? I believe this is why some Catholic priests crack after years of abstinence and start raping all the altar boys. They have never become one or even said 'hello' to the shadow.

Again, spot on. You must get to know your demons, if you keep looking the other way they will control you. I've found a helpful way of dealing with dark thoughts is to actually have them, meaning let them express themselves internally without any shaming or suppression on your part. Put aside time if you have to, i.e. "ok, next half hour I'm going full negative". Now you've blown off steam. Trying to layer over dark thoughts with 'positivity' doesn't work, it's also possibly dangerous in the long term.
06-08-2019 11:03 AM
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Post: #74
RE: 3000 years ago everyone had schizophrenia
First of all, let me express my genuine sorrow for the situation your cousin and family find themselves in. It's an illness that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

The terrible thing about this illness is the toll it takes on family members.

His parents, in particular, are going to suffer. Unfortunately, the stigma surrounding schizophrenia makes it so much worse than any other affliction. When you have cancer, the whole world is with you, offering moral support. Schizophrenia is no less real as a medical condition, but it isolates the sufferer. It affects different people differently but I'm not going to sugar coat it. There may be times when your cousin will come across like a complete asshole. A nasty person, selfish or just downright scary. The most simple appeals to logic, commonsense, and decency may fall on deaf ears.

Sympathy will give way to apathy, and then downright hostility. And that's just from family members. You will have to keep reminding yourself that he's ill. Be prepared for that.

Also, be prepared for an overwhelming sense of hopelessness as you watch someone you care about be tormented by their inner demons.

It's still early days, so it's imperative he gets medication. If he doesn't, he may develop an aversion to it, and he may see it as part of the grand conspiracy against him.

Be his friend. He'll need you, as his other friends are going to drop him fast. His parents are going to need friends and support, too.

Diet does have a role to play. Look at fermented foods. They may help. Google schizophrenia and gut bacteria, etc.

Also, have him examined for epilepsy which may have gone undetected.

He may have good days, weeks or months, followed by remission, without rhyme or reason. Don't let it grind you down.

Good luck, man.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 12:07 PM by Atticus.)
06-10-2019 12:05 PM
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