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Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
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Hotwheels Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
I don't care what color either of the guys were.

If a guy is pounding the head of another into the concrete, and the poundee happens to have a gun, I fully expect him to use it as a means of self preservation.

Black, white, yellow, red, green, it doesn't matter what color the guy is.

The fact so many not only here, but in the general population, seem to think justice should be based on color and if the guy is minority is mind boggling.

Think about this; What would your opinion be if the rolls were reversed? Martin was getting beat down and popped Zimmerman. Would your opinion change on the justification of the shooting change?

I think for a lot of guys here it would.

Not me however.

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07-15-2013 08:44 AM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
Lupe makes great points but he sure seems like he is antagonizing the people on his feed with the tone that he is taking.
07-15-2013 10:37 AM
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WestIndianArchie Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
As usual hiphop pariah Lupe drops his look at me stuff. Why people even like this guy is beyond me. Especially hiphop heads.

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07-15-2013 11:05 AM
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thegmanifesto Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
(07-15-2013 11:05 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  As usual hiphop pariah Lupe drops his look at me stuff. Why people even like this guy is beyond me. Especially hiphop heads.

WIA

I don't know much about the cat.

Why do you think he is wack?

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07-15-2013 11:11 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
(07-15-2013 11:05 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  As usual hiphop pariah Lupe drops his look at me stuff. Why people even like this guy is beyond me. Especially hiphop heads.

WIA

His first two major releases (The Cool and Food and Liquor) in addition to his classic mixtapes lend credence to the fact that he's extremely talented as an artist and is one of the best in the game when he's in top form. Unfortunately for him he has a history of going into childish rants on social media and being very preachy so it's going to turn most people off regardless of the validity of his points. It's hard to refute anything he says here though.
07-15-2013 11:51 AM
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TheMachinist Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
There needs to be a dozen other Lupe Fiasco's in hip hop.And I know for a FACT that they do exist but those people know that ignorance is what sells records.The things that Lupe says are usually true...and black folk hate hearing the fucking truth.We are our own worst enemy.
07-15-2013 12:05 PM
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RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
(07-15-2013 05:02 AM)CJ_W Wrote:  That's cool that you bring up the black on black crime and all but. . .uh. . .well. . .I'm not sure if the guys who committed the crime . . . .

got off after being put on trial.

of course, then the question is, what about white on white crime? why aren't people really outraged about that?

or better yet. . .
Crime at all? I mean I'm sure you've watched the news. . .

But yeah anyway, I figure that Lupe (and the OP who keeps posting stuff about him) is race trolling/baiting.

Most of the black people I know. ..aren't upset. Disappointed? A little, but stuff like this is not new, and probably wont change.

oh and BTW, there *IS* community outrage against black on black crime in black communities. . .A N D communities have done a LOT of things to end the violence, or at least try to. . .

(they just aren't covered on CNN and nationally. . .which is another can of worms dealing with"the powers that be," "the establishment" and and "the man" etc etc etc)

A LOT of bad neighborhoods have cleaned themselves up over the past 5 years(speaking from experience: when I came back from overseas, many of the *bad* neighborhoods weren't bad anymore etc etc)

But I kinda think that threads like these are trying to appease some twisted sense of white guilt. . .when it really isnt the case at all. . . someone was killed, and the killer pretty much got away with it. in other similar situations and other states, hell even on the FOUMS when Fisto made the thread about getting into a fight, there were TONS of posts form many of the members here, warning against fighting and how "if you hurt someone no matter the situation, you could be in prison for a long time - and if someone were to die, that's murder/manslaughter etc etc"

But of course that doesn't get applied to the situation here. The sentiment is here: "It's a black kid that got killed, it must have been his fault, it has nothing to do with the system, how we participate in it, and how we collude by placing the blame on the victim etc etc" A lot of you guys don't even view it as a human being who was murdered.

This is the true tragedy, as it seems that the people who are viewing black lives in such low regards, are many of the very members of the forum.

Of course, I don't blame you guys, I mean you guys see what you see. You see the stereotypes on T.V. movies, and radio. Then you apply that filter to those who look like that regardless is they're acting that way or not. I'd do the same thing too - and sometimes I do. . .I'm not exempt from this either. . .but I do acknowledge all of this, while it seems that many members here want to cease looking at themselves, and circlejerk off by "blaming, and berating black folks, or at least saying "you guys don't deserve to be angry"

I personally think this is pretty disappointing for members of this forum - who are for the most part, high-caliber members (or up and coming) of their societies. I was expecting more from you guys to be honest. At least a bit more than the same people who posts these types of "points" (and not looking at all the sides) on less kosher mediums(i.e. youtube, yahoo comments, etc etc.)

I think you guys can do better than that.

. . .that's all I really have to say. Enjoy it or not, it's up to you.

Sigh. I tried to refrain but couldn't resist.

Are we having a rational discussion here are we just emoting? I personally think that on a forum of men we can have a straightforward discussion about this case, even with the embedded race issues, without resorting to emotional insinuations that come with very little grounding in the incident or arguments at hand. I hope I'm not wrong.

There are many things you've brought up above that make zero sense at all (us telling Fisto not to fight in a 3rd world shithole has anything to do with this??? WTF) and others that definitely make zero sense in the context of this case.

I think everyone here has made it clear they think it's a bummer the kid got killed (if not in this thread than the other zimmerman/trayvon threads, which I sense you've been reading). Unfortunately, and this is an ugly responsibility of being an adult, choosing to have a rational discussion about it requires setting the deeper issue of human mortality aside for a second and looking at what makes sense based on the facts.

Looking at an incident with such a cold calculation sucks. It is in fact not easy for anyone, but it's also required to come to reasonable conclusions of shitty situations that are never as clean-cut as we want them to be. Otherwise we're just sitting around having a pow-wow about a death, holding hands, and crying - which gets us nowhere.

Of course it sucks the kid is dead. This is a loss of a human life and a very young one at that. Life is fucked sometimes. Only the most evil of people in our society can wake up in the morning and wish that kind of end to anybody, and I feel I can confidently speak on behalf of 95% or more of the forum, including lurkers, that nobody here does wish for these types of things to happen (and only a mere 95% because this forum in particular has it's share of loony-ass lurkers).

But we can hardly come to realistic conclusions of the facts if we sit around dwelling in the emotions of the entire thing.

Let's say there's any shred of truth at all to Zimmerman's story, not that I expect you to entertain such a thought. Only supposing the slight chance of that exists, wouldn't you say it's fair to step back and take emotions out of it to look at what actually happened based on the facts rather than solely swim in the emotional waters?

Our entire justice system is built around the idea of taking this approach to the world. It's ugly work but that's what justice entails. We engage third parties to make decisions about what happened in situations that have nothing to do with them (I'm talking about judges, attornies, and juries of "peers") because people who are emotionally involved in something as horrendous as a murder case can't be expected to make rational conclusions. Emotions are, at their core, irrational.

And when irrational emotions get ahold of someone in a situation like Zimmerman without the protection of such a system, they get chewed up and hocked on the wall like a loogie. Which is great when you think he's an evil person but kind of sucks if you're at all mistaken.

So implying that anyone who disagrees with your assertion of guilt must be a racist or somehow insensitive to the teen's death , when they're working from a foundation of looking at evidence and have laid out very rational reasoning, is just irresponsible.

Do you really think it's in the best interest of judgement to hand over Zimmerman to the mob? By mob I mean the ruthless court of public appeal that has been shown throughout history, over and over again, to not slow itself down enough to weigh the facts and give them a chance?

Doing so would be akin to completely deciding to throw out the idea of using courts to slow down the mob's angry teeth. And you could very likely even make a case for doing such a drastic thing that I'd listen to - hey I'm not 100% against anarchy - but be very careful about what you ask for in this world is all I can say. The tyranny of the majority can be a very frightening animal. And once we decide that's how we do things, we set foot on a very slippery slope.

I could go on about a few more ways in which the above post is flawed, but for now I'd really just suggest you bring more to this issue than your "feeling" that racism must somehow be involved if you want people to take you seriously. Not to mention at least quoting who you're talking to when you say "you" and try to use actual examples before accusing people of being racists.

Particularly telling, for instance, is your mention of white guilt in a case that involved zero white people - something white-people shamers continually ignore regarding this issue. Many of us who disagree with you are more than happy to hear your ideas, but I highly suggest addressing it at some point if you wish to be taken seriously.

I will conclude by saying that white people are interested in this case because others are pointing the finger at them for something a hispanic did. If people weren't doing that, this case would very interestingly have never made it to the national conscious to begin with. White people responding to that misguided finger-pointing, or commenting on some high-profile blacks reaching that same conclusion, is hardly a case of "white guilt."

Saying it simply does not make it so.

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(This post was last modified: 07-15-2013 02:34 PM by Beyond Borders.)
07-15-2013 01:58 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
So the NAACP convention is happening less than 2 weeks after a July 4th weekend in Chicago in which 72 people were shot (likely all black on black and likely all by illegally owned guns because the law abiding can't own guns in Chiraq).

And what does the NAACP choose to focus on at this convention? A self-defense shooting by a Hispanic male who was getting his head pounded in by a black male. NAACP President: 'Nothing more than a modern day lynching'.

As long as black 'leadership' is held by stooges who serve their liberal elite masters, nothing is going to change for lower class black Americans, and that is a real tragedy.
07-15-2013 04:26 PM
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Basil Ransom Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
"Love it when a black man doesn't dance to the strings of the white liberal would-be puppet masters." From Assman.

Assman, you're criticizing black leaders for doing exactly what you're doing here - passing the buck to whites. You want black leaders to stop focusing on people like Zimmerman, and start looking within, but then say that black leaders are the puppets of whites. Which is it?

Black leaders like Sharpton and Jackson like to get riled up over Zimmerman because they know they can whip up a frenzy of protest among blacks because the enemy is outside. Criticizing black criminals amounts to self-criticism, which doesn't rile up the troops as much. It's very easy to understand the hustle. It's not unique to blacks of course - all around the world people will get riled up at a trivial incident committed by a stranger, while actions by fellow natives are overlooked.
07-15-2013 04:54 PM
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RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
(07-15-2013 04:54 PM)basilransom Wrote:  "Love it when a black man doesn't dance to the strings of the white liberal would-be puppet masters." From Assman.

Assman, you're criticizing black leaders for doing exactly what you're doing here - passing the buck to whites. You want black leaders to stop focusing on people like Zimmerman, and start looking within, but then say that black leaders are the puppets of whites. Which is it?
I don't follow your question. I think groups like the NAACP, and so-called civil rights leaders like Sharpton and Jackson are stooges for the progressive liberal elite who are all about group identity politics (whites vs blacks, men vs women, etc). They aren't doing anything to help blacks, which is what they claim they are doing.

(07-15-2013 04:54 PM)basilransom Wrote:  Black leaders like Sharpton and Jackson like to get riled up over Zimmerman because they know they can whip up a frenzy of protest among blacks because the enemy is outside. Criticizing black criminals amounts to self-criticism, which doesn't rile up the troops as much. It's very easy to understand the hustle. It's not unique to blacks of course - all around the world people will get riled up at a trivial incident committed by a stranger, while actions by fellow natives are overlooked.
Agreed. Also, they collect a lot of money from self-flagellating white liberals when they blame whitey for every injustice they can lay on the white man's doorstep (even if the claimed injustice was at the hands of a Hispanic - not enough self-flagellating Hispanic liberals to raise money from).

IMHO, if blacks in a position of influence in the black community want to help blacks, in particular lower class blacks (because middle class and upper class blacks are doing just fine), they should be calling out the roots of the problems in lower class black America, which IMHO are liberal policies. The current crew will never do that because it is liberals who butter their bread.
07-15-2013 06:12 PM
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TheRookie Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
(07-15-2013 02:17 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  
(07-14-2013 08:48 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Blacks are killing each other for FAR less in the black community, and nobody cares to talk about that. This is the problem.

I don't think anyone would argue that this isn't a problem. I think what caused the eruption with the Zimmerman case is that he did what he did and wasn't arrested. Now if there's an incident of black on black violence and the cops catch the perpetrators, somebody is going the fuck to jail that night. That Zimmerman didn't go to jail given that he killed an unarmed teen is what caused the anger. Especially when it's perceived that the the races of the those involved had something to do with the outcome.

Didn't anyone's mother ever tell them two wrongs don't make a right? I see this logical argument all the time:

1. The drug laws are racist and wrong (true). The justice system is corrupt (mostly true).
2. A woman got 20 years for warning shots (true - seems too harsh)
3. Therefore convict Zimmerman!
07-15-2013 08:22 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
Interesting to read what Sowell has to say about the black leadership:

Quote:The civil rights movement in 20th century America attracted many people who put everything on the line for the sake of fighting against racial oppression. But the eventual success of that movement attracted opportunists, and even turned some idealists into opportunists.

Over the generations, black leaders have ranged from noble souls to shameless charlatans. After the success of the civil rights insurgency, the latter have come into their own, gaining money, power and fame by promoting racial attitudes and actions that are counterproductive to the interests of those they lead.
...
Quote:Groups that rose from poverty to prosperity seldom did so by having racial or ethnic leaders. While most Americans can easily name a number of black leaders, current or past, how many can name Asian American ethnic leaders or Jewish ethnic leaders?

http://www.creators.com/opinion/thomas-s...07-09.html
07-15-2013 08:24 PM
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WestIndianArchie Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
redacted
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07-15-2013 11:23 PM
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RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
^ Post Of The Day

Quote:And Kanye, as talented as he is at making good songs is actually an awful rapper. Some people say his corny lines are endearing, but most people are fucking idiots.

Might be an awful human being, but I honestly don't care what Kanye does outside of the booth, that gossip shit is for bitches. And there's a lot bitches listening to and running hip hop right now.

And what do bitches want? they want drama

Ever since 50 Cent got a little buzz back in 03 for getting shot, more and more rappers are trying to use the mainstream press to give them street cred and hip hop cred. Da fuck? We're at the point now where Jay Z is trying to bust flows at the Hermitage and shit. Watch them ballet-ify twerking in a hot second...

Too much emphasis on "money rap" these days it seems, that's like more than half of Kanye's lines now. And production on Yeezus makes it seem like he should try to stay in the booth and get back to his roots.

I could care less about the Maseratis and Lambos after mentioning it in way too many tracks. I'd much rather hear money acknowledged this way:





And after checking the Magna Carta album, realized that Jay is slipping more and more...

I actually would prefer to get the instrumental of "Picasso Baby" since that beat is sick but his lyrics make me want a blend instead

Quote:He doesn't have Nas disease and can find a good beat from no name producers

Agree with this, though I would argue the latest Nas album was an exception to this trend.

I posted my thoughts and embedded some tracks in this post: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-25460-...#pid483818

What did you guys think of it?
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 12:44 AM by LeBeau.)
07-16-2013 12:27 AM
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RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
(07-15-2013 11:23 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I remember b-boying, the pee wee herman, the wop, the roger rabbit, the humpty dance...hell I can do the original Harlem Shake still.

I don't know if you've kept up with any of the original street dances (i.e. Bboying, Locking, etc.) but seeing videos today, shit has gone international and evolved to a crazy level:





And even with all the new powermoves and big tricks, many people still focus on advancing proper freestyle to the music:



(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 01:32 AM by LeBeau.)
07-16-2013 12:56 AM
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RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
(07-15-2013 02:35 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  
(07-15-2013 02:17 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  I don't think anyone would argue that this isn't a problem. I think what caused the eruption with the Zimmerman case is that he did what he did and wasn't arrested. Now if there's an incident of black on black violence and the cops catch the perpetrators, somebody is going the fuck to jail that night. That Zimmerman didn't go to jail given that he killed an unarmed teen is what caused the anger. Especially when it's perceived that the the races of the those involved had something to do with the outcome.

While that's not an invalid point, I still don't see it bridging the gap between the outrage expressed at Trayvon's loss and the loss of so many other young teens for even less.

Also, many of the perpetrators of the gang violence I'm talking about run free all the time. They are protected by their local communities (who hate the police) and put on a pedestal by popular culture. Maybe Zimmerman was given a free pass he didn't deserve, but so are many troublemakers in the black community.

Why aren't African-Americans as anxious to eradicate these gangsters and their culture as they are to see Zimmerman put in jail?

I think the fact that most of the people being killed are "about that life" is why there such apathy towards black on black violence in the Black community. Of course is terrible when a innocent gets shot/killed and people do vigils whenever a kid or innocent gets killed but the media just doesn't cover it. I remember reading a New York Times article that state above 90% of the victims of shooting had criminal records. I can tell you from personal experience whenever a shit head in my neighborhood got shot, I wasn't really too heart broken about it. The way I looked at it, now two shit heads are out of the streets, the one who got shot and the shooter.

I know the media went a little overboard with that whole "No Snitching" meme that Dipset was promoting. They made it sound like it was something that was part of Black culture. I remember when Cam'ron went on 60 minutes and trolled Leslie Stahl hard by saying that if a serial killer lived next to him he wouldn't snitch on him. LOL. Blacks have been snitching on other Blacks since the slavery days.

As for eradicating the goon culture that already been tried.
all you have to do is look at who owns the media conglomerates who promote that shit. Backpack rappers really get no radio play or their videos on BET. In the 90's there was an effort by the Black leadership spearheaded by Delores tucker to go after the media companies but it backfired. Rappers are actually under very tight leash and there is no such thing as free speech in Hip Hop. Like Nas said "I spit that real shit and y'all won't buy the record."

Black crime could be eliminated if there was a political will to do it but there isn't. Too many people making money off it. Everybody from the police to the Greek diner who has the contract to provide the bologna cheese sandwiches for local jails. Something as simple as expunging old convictions would help a lot. A lot of Black males who did dumb shit when they were 16 and got a felony conviction are forever blacklisted from the job market. So, even if they wanted to do the right thing, they can't. This really helps lower class Whites, immigrants and Black women because now Black male are barred from competing for those jobs.

I could go on and on about it, but it is what it is.
07-16-2013 05:37 AM
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RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
redacted
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07-16-2013 07:55 AM
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RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
redacted
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07-16-2013 08:02 AM
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RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
NAACP Rejects Black Conservatives From National Conference

Not surprising that a leftist organization like the NAACP would keep out black conservatives.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2013 06:39 PM by assman.)
07-17-2013 06:38 PM
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RE: Lupe Fiasco Speaks on The Zimmerman Verdict
09-10-2013 01:52 PM
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