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How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
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jaakkeli Offline
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Post: #51
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
If you're stuck in the frame of feeling like you have to prove that you're not a racist then you've already handed a ton of power to your opponents.

I've seen eager multiculturalists turn into ranting racists after a few drinks, I've seen leftists first talk about how great it will be to blend all the races and then later break down after finding out that one of their female relatives has been doing some blending of races, I've seen anti-racist activists having way too much fun doing research by hanging out on the kind of racist sites that disgust me...

Why would I worry about proving myself to those people? I know what kind of a person I am and I have nothing to be ashamed of (well, at least not when it comes to race stuff).
07-16-2013 09:40 AM
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Hades Offline
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
This is a shit thread, but it does come up every now and then especially with "water-cooler conversation" with PC types. If I get a temp ban for this I probably had it coming. I hope that this forum is generally anti-SWPL, because my comments and stuff that I have used have definitely been used to fight the SWPL menace for some years now.

The gist is, don't accept the frame that you're trying to prove yourself not racist, instead state that the person asking is too concerned about race in a way that makes them racist by implication, answer a question with another question, play dumb, use brutal sarcasm, give an non-sequitur answer that would make a politician proud, or some combination. Misdirection, misdirection, misdirection. Bamboozle them with your words.

Also try to use as many positive or strong words and concepts as possible. A few I can list here are "God, American, a true patriot or patriotism, freedom, liberty, Constitution, constitutional, progress, and any relevant historical characters".

For example -

Charlene: "Those comments seemed racist! I'm offended by implication!"
Hades: "You're offended by implication? Being a white female, do you have the gall to deny enjoying the racial privilege that you possess? Are you trying to marginalize the struggles of the black community in America by claiming that you know how rough they have had it here since the colonial age? Can you recite me the first line of the Emancipation Proclamation? How about the best summary line of Frederick Douglass's famous speech, "The Hypocrisy of American Slavery". I didn't think so."

Marla: "Those comments sounded kinda racist, bro"
Hades: " Take a long walk off a short pier, Marla. I'm not your bro. And thanks for the condescending remark. Did you fail preschool?"

Jeannine: "Isn't it racist to assume - .. ?"
Hades: "You know, Jeannine, that's an excellent question. While I am not so presumptuous to say that I know the black community well, I believe that they are doing a great job. It's going to take time and effort to adjust but I'm sure we'll all pull through this together."

Richard: "I'm a male feminist formally accusing you, Hades, of a racist comment on July 12, 2013 at approximately 2:32 PM within the area of .. "
Hades: "Thanks for informing me and spreading awareness, no doubt we'll never be able to eradicate racism within our legal system unless there's somebody policing every conversation for racially ambiguous comments.
Great job.".

Brunhilda: "That seems racist."
Hades: "Do you walk around accusing people of racism so you can feel morally superior to them? Are you doing it to create a toxic work environment? If I call you out on your shit, do I rob you of an ego victory? What I'm saying, Brunhilda, is that I don't what a pathologically passive-aggressive conflict-seeker suddenly deciding that she's the arbiter of workplace conduct. That's how the Salem Witch Trials happened. Are you trying to advocate anarchy and mob rule, Brunhilda? Goddamnit, I'm an American, Brunhilda. Go spread your communistic beliefs elsewhere."

Jezebel: "I'm a racist whore who dates non-white guys to prove to others I'm not racist. Am I a racist?"
Hades: "IRT has no date, so absolutely, you are racist."

Sharon: "You have to prove that you're not racist."
Hades: "Now, Sharon, the problem here is not that I might be racist. No, Sharon, the problem here is that you might be racist. What would happen if I said or did a racist thing, and you agreed or saw no fault in it? That would make you racist by association, and you would be spreading the oppression and lies that guarantee racism being fundamentally institutional. I'm sorry, Sharon, but none may judge in this respect but God himself."
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 10:59 AM by Hades.)
07-16-2013 10:55 AM
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samsamsam Offline
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Post: #53
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
Don't worry about. Treat others well and with respect and you won't have any problems. The problem is most people are obsessed with being respected but never give respect to others. We look at who slights us and never at how we slight others.

Also, a little transformational here, it is about your beingness, your congruency. 10 different people can say "Hi" to you, but with some of them you get that they are not really happy to see you. It is that vibe that people pick up. The ego tells us that we are able to trick others (say one thing totally contrary to what we really believe), but oftentimes people pick up on what is really happening. We just think we can get away with it.

So I wouldn't make it an active effort to "not be a racist." if anything it heightens your awareness of race. With all the talk about being alpha and tougher than the rest, and listening to our egos, etc. it is very hard to show respect and concern for others. Sometimes, showing a little compassion for someone else will really win you some points (this sounds a little manipulative - but you know what I mean).

The ego is always trying to be right, so many of us, including myself have difficulties in being objective with ourselves. Anything that hints at imperfection just makes us react negatively, "no way could I be a racist!" Doesn't mean anything is wrong, it just means you are human like the rest of us. And we are all on our journey of some sort. It is up to you to figure out if you think you need to change anything and then take action if you choose to.

At the end of the day, we are all just people trying to make the best of it.

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(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 11:45 AM by samsamsam.)
07-16-2013 11:43 AM
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GameTheory Offline
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Post: #54
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-15-2013 08:03 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  I get annoyed with race trolling, [...]
(07-15-2013 04:10 PM)PrimeTime Wrote:  Having a black friend doesn't mean you're not racist. One of the reasons Terrance Howard divorced his white wife was because she called him a n***er. There's been plenty of reports of black women married to white men who still call them n***er. Using a I'm not racist because "I have a black friend" excuse is a tired cliche at this point. Shout out to Paula Deen, one of her "most trusted people" was a black dude still doesn't stop her from wanting to dress black people as slaves and calling them n***ers.
[...]

what is it that you are doing/saying that makes you want to prove to others that you're "not racist?"
07-16-2013 04:00 PM
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GameTheory Offline
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Post: #55
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-15-2013 10:04 PM)Samseau Wrote:  [...]

Thus, saying black people are smelly isn't racist. It's bigoted, rude, and offensive as hell, but it's not racist. [...]

Saying blacks have low IQ's on average is not racist. Again, it's rude, mean-spirited, generally pointless to say and highly inflamatory, but it's not racist.
[...]

those statements are part and parcel of racism. it's a strategy of de-humanizing other people. repeated often enough, statements like those lead to scenes like these:

[Image: intro000.jpg?raw=1]

[Image: holocaust2.jpg]
07-16-2013 04:09 PM
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Architekt Offline
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Post: #56
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-16-2013 04:09 PM)GameTheory Wrote:  those statements are part and parcel of racism. it's a strategy of de-humanizing other people. repeated often enough, statements like those lead to scenes like these:

As I stated before, there's a difference between observation and racism. For example, I can say "many aboriginals I've met smoke and drink," and a whole mob of SWPL types will turn their heads and gasp. This isn't actually a racist statement, it's just an observation. Had I said something such as "I hate those coons, they're a bunch of drunks," that could be construed as racism. The former merely acknowledges that I've seen and observed something, while the latter implies prejudice based on that observation. It's analogous to comparing the statements "women have long hair," and "I hate women because they have long hair." Obviously there's no malice implied in observing such a thing, so why is it suddenly a big deal when I observe other physical traits attributed to someone?

Political (in)correctness can go fuck itself.
07-16-2013 04:25 PM
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GameTheory Offline
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Post: #57
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-16-2013 04:25 PM)Architekt Wrote:  
(07-16-2013 04:09 PM)GameTheory Wrote:  those statements are part and parcel of racism. it's a strategy of de-humanizing other people. repeated often enough, statements like those lead to scenes like these:

As I stated before, there's a difference between observation and racism. For example, I can say "many aboriginals I've met smoke and drink," and a whole mob of SWPL types will turn their heads and gasp. This isn't actually a racist statement, it's just an observation. Had I said something such as "I hate those coons, they're a bunch of drunks," that could be construed as racism. The former merely acknowledges that I've seen and observed something, while the latter implies prejudice based on that observation. It's analogous to comparing the statements "women have long hair," and "I hate women because they have long hair." Obviously there's no malice implied in observing such a thing, so why is it suddenly a big deal when I observe other physical traits attributed to someone?

Political (in)correctness can go fuck itself.

there is a huge difference between "many aboriginals I've met smoke and drink," and "all abos are drunks"
07-16-2013 04:43 PM
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kosko Offline
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Post: #58
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
..
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 04:55 PM by kosko.)
07-16-2013 04:54 PM
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tairos Offline
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Post: #59
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-16-2013 04:09 PM)GameTheory Wrote:  
(07-15-2013 10:04 PM)Samseau Wrote:  [...]

Thus, saying black people are smelly isn't racist. It's bigoted, rude, and offensive as hell, but it's not racist. [...]

Saying blacks have low IQ's on average is not racist. Again, it's rude, mean-spirited, generally pointless to say and highly inflamatory, but it's not racist.
[...]

those statements are part and parcel of racism. it's a strategy of de-humanizing other people. repeated often enough, statements like those lead to scenes like these:

[Image: intro000.jpg?raw=1]

[Image: holocaust2.jpg]

Cuz Hitler!

Well, rhetoric about how one ethnic group is 'holding down' another led to the events of the Rwanda Genocide. So, maybe it's the "victims" who ought to shut up, cuz Hitler/Hutus with machetes.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 05:25 PM by tairos.)
07-16-2013 05:24 PM
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Architekt Offline
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Post: #60
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
@GameTheory:

It could be that your observations led you to a particular conclusion - which doesn't necessarily make you prejudiced, it could just mean you were unfortunate in your experiences, or have bad judgement. Again, it doesn't matter whether you've observed a particular trait, until you start discriminating based upon it. Calling someone a drunk may imply negative feelings for some, but it is the people who associate those traits with being negative that are prejudiced, not the one who makes the observation.

Example:
"Australia has many deadly creatures."

Fairly neutral statement? Perhaps not...

"Deadly creatures? That means Australia is a dangerous place!"

Prejudice lays in the interpretation, not the observation. If you think that a quality has an inherent value, and you associate whatever group with that quality to make a decision based on that particular quality, rather than more relevant ones, that is what construes prejudice.

eg; in this case, associating a race with drunkenness.

If, under whatever ethical system, drunkenness is an inherently bad trait, and this is interpreted as meaning "that particular race is bad" because of that, ignoring all other factors, this is where prejudice enters the game. The observer doesn't necessarily imply any judgement, only makes the statement - the judgement is left to the interpretor of the statement.

People are often quick to assume certain things or statements have a particular meaning and that's the end of the story. These people are usually narcissists that can't comprehend that anyone might have a different ethical system to them. When people make these judgements, they are proving their own prejudical ways, and looking past the possibility that someone might not care about the same things they themselves do.

In summary, an ambiguous observation/statement does not make racism.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 05:35 PM by Architekt.)
07-16-2013 05:35 PM
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GameTheory Offline
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Post: #61
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-16-2013 04:25 PM)Architekt Wrote:  [...]
Political (in)correctness can go fuck itself.

very well then, but don't go crying a river if you end up like this:

[Image: trauma13n-5-web.jpg]


http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/man-...z2YvhYa7QR
07-16-2013 06:08 PM
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soup Offline
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Post: #62
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-15-2013 08:03 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  I get annoyed with race trolling, but I wanted to present a more serious discussion about one of the issues that has arisen from the Zimmerman trial, and countless others in the past. I really hope this doesn't devolve into ad hominems, meltdowns, or more arguments about the trial (we have another thread for that).

I also think this discussion is necessary for our generation of men, since PC culture is only becoming more ingrained.

With hyper sensitive HR policies already in place, it doesn't help that academic departments increasingly make straight, white, Christian males out to be the worst possible individuals (don't even get me started with that cisgender garbage).

I used white in the title since I believe that as a majority, that's the hardest position to defend from, though obviously this could apply to any group. We've seen how extreme people like Adria Richards can be with her tweets like "Black people CANNOT be racist against White people. Racism is a position of the oppressor who has the power"

I think the same way we discuss defense against false rape charges, accusations of sexism and racism will also become more detrimental in the future, even if they are later proven false or have no merit in the first place. I think we do a good service to men here when people share tips on protecting yourself.

(07-15-2013 04:10 PM)PrimeTime Wrote:  Having a black friend doesn't mean you're not racist. One of the reasons Terrance Howard divorced his white wife was because she called him a n***er. There's been plenty of reports of black women married to white men who still call them n***er. Using a I'm not racist because "I have a black friend" excuse is a tired cliche at this point. Shout out to Paula Deen, one of her "most trusted people" was a black dude still doesn't stop her from wanting to dress black people as slaves and calling them n***ers.

I can understand why some people would consider this a tired cliche, as certainly individuals can hold negative general views on race, ethnicity, etc. and make exceptions for those close to them.

I am white, and I have close friends from all different backgrounds. I'm fortunate that my parents raised me in a very open and accepting household. I have also dated girls from a variety of backgrounds.

But there's a bigger question here...

How does a white person in North America prove that they are not racist?

At what point do you have enough evidence? Friends, relatives, relationships, charitable donations, support of minority businesses, festivals, etc. where does it end?

We all know it's easy to play the race card, and certainly sometimes it's warranted, but it's an asymmetric attack since defending yourself from charges of racism is next to impossible.

It seems like it's easier to defend against sexism and other "isms" compared to race, but I could have just as easily put in a different one. Along those same lines, feminists are working to make "misogynist' the new race card, since they see how effective it is in stirring up feelings in place of facts.

I'm talking philosophically here, but also asking for practical examples or suggestions.

I've never had a problem with this, so I can't speak from experience, but obviously it's important to break down these types of issues.

When are you ever in a position where you have to prove you aren't racist?
07-16-2013 06:20 PM
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Architekt Offline
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Post: #63
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
@GameTheory: I don't mouth off at people without provocation - I'm actually a pretty relaxed guy. That being said, if the situation arises where I do end up face to face and get knocked out, that's my own stupid fault, so don't worry, I'm not gonna complain.
07-16-2013 06:24 PM
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-16-2013 04:09 PM)GameTheory Wrote:  
(07-15-2013 10:04 PM)Samseau Wrote:  [...]

Thus, saying black people are smelly isn't racist. It's bigoted, rude, and offensive as hell, but it's not racist. [...]

Saying blacks have low IQ's on average is not racist. Again, it's rude, mean-spirited, generally pointless to say and highly inflamatory, but it's not racist.
[...]

those statements are part and parcel of racism. it's a strategy of de-humanizing other people. repeated often enough, statements like those lead to scenes like these:

[Image: intro000.jpg?raw=1]

[Image: holocaust2.jpg]


You're using the same logic feminists use when they say porn leads to "rape culture."

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07-16-2013 06:54 PM
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GameTheory Offline
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
^^^ porn leads to erections. not to rape.

[Image: cover.jpg]


the Godfather of Game, Neil Strauss, visited Serbia just after the 9/11 attacks, and documents the de-humanizing anti-American propaganda there. it's an intriguing insight.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 08:00 PM by GameTheory.)
07-16-2013 07:57 PM
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Sebastian Offline
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
You know you are racists at heart. I know I am racist. I know I will feel more comfortable with certain race. I know I will judge different based on the race.(and other appearance features). I know I won't date certain race. I know I can't lick her all over if she has certain color of skin.

How many people are like this? 95%. how many people will actually say this? very few...

I think people at the night club act close to what they really are.
07-16-2013 09:10 PM
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LeBeau Offline
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-16-2013 08:37 AM)Caligula Wrote:  Be like Big Pun and regulate every shade of the ass.

http://rapgenius.com/Big-punisher-still-...#note-5630

Have been, and will gladly continue to do that.
07-16-2013 10:41 PM
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Kingsley Davis Offline
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
I'm racist as fuck because i love my race...the human race.Grouphug

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07-16-2013 11:02 PM
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-16-2013 06:06 AM)j r Wrote:  Not only is this a race troll thread, but it's also a hamster thread.

Some of people who are commenting on this post would proudly claim to be red pill on race or to be down with HBD, but for some reason the word racism rankles you. Why? Just own it. Otherwise, you sound like the women who say that just cause they fuck a lot of guys it does not mean that they are sluts.

I'm not sure what it means to be Red Pill on race? From what I've read so far, I thought the Red Pill terminology was only used regarding not putting women on a pedestal, seeing the truth in social interactions, and other foundational stuff.

I get what some posters meant about things being inflamed by academia, media, or self righteous types. None of those I have personal experience with, hence the Ron Paul example.

Actually, one PHD guy accused me of being a harmful asshole since I was mocking that Jezebel article by Lindy West about gym visits by fat women being the "new form of social disobedience." He started saying some shit about different types of privilege (i.e. thin) but then both male and female friends of mine just started making fun of him.

Also, what is HBD? I saw in this thread: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-25789-...#pid488596 that someone used the term "HB5" to refer to a busted girl. Tuth told me that the 5 was a ranking term from 1-10, but no one mentioned what the HB stood for. Based on your context, I'm guessing HBD is something different?

Not sure about all these acronyms, is there any posts/threads that break them down in one summary?

I know SIF means Secret Internet Fatty from the online dating posts, though thankfully I've never had to worry about that.
07-16-2013 11:10 PM
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TheSlayer Offline
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
HBD refers to "Human BioDiversity". There have been many discussions about HBD on this forum. Certain manosphere sites are pretty big on HBD like Heartiste.


HB5 or HB any# stands for Hot Babe
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2013 11:27 PM by TheSlayer.)
07-16-2013 11:19 PM
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-16-2013 11:19 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  HBD refers to "Human BioDiversity". There have been many discussions about HBD on this forum. Certain manosphere sites are pretty big on HBD like Heartiste.


HB5 or HB any# stands for Hot Babe

Appreciate the info.

I haven't gone in depth with too many other "manosphere" (is this the only term?) sites, though I've checked out some data sheets from that Naughty Nomad guy and G's blog (I think that's how I found Roosh's blog in the first place).

Okay, maybe this has been covered already, but how is it possible to call someone a Hot Babe and then give them a 5? Seems like a contradiction.

I don't use the 1-10 rating scale much when discussing women with buddies, though we will use words like "dime" or "talent" occasionally.

I can't even think of a time I referred to a girl as a "Hot Babe"...

And better yet, aren't PUA types inherently putting women on a pedestal in the first place using the term "Hot Babe" as part of their vocab?
07-16-2013 11:48 PM
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Post: #72
RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
Why do you need to prove this and to whom?

Native born white American males are the least racist people in the US.

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07-17-2013 07:52 AM
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j r Offline
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-17-2013 07:52 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  Why do you need to prove this and to whom?

Native born white American males are the least racist people in the US.

Right. And American women are just too strong for men to handle.
07-17-2013 11:59 AM
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el mechanico Offline
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-17-2013 07:52 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  Why do you need to prove this and to whom?

Native born white American males are the least racist people in the US.
I agree even though I was called racist twice yesterday alone.

I'm going to make some statements you guys tell me if they're racist.

1. I went to Atlanta

2. Greek people are cheap and ruin everything they get involved in

3. I would like to meet the IRT

4. Trayvon

5. I collect German WWII war memorabilia

6. Black girls are cunts

7. We should invade Canada
07-17-2013 12:12 PM
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tairos Offline
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RE: How does a white person in North America prove that they aren't racist? (serious)
(07-17-2013 07:52 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  Why do you need to prove this and to whom?

Native born white American males are the least racist people in the US.

Indeed. Cowering and apologizing in the face of "racism" accusations only emboldens the vultures, thus paradoxically making the accused an even bigger "racist" and general doubleplus ungood person. The greatest sin of the native born white American male is his past strength sullied by his present simpering weakness.
07-17-2013 02:59 PM
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