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Women in locker rooms
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Vitriol Offline
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Women in locker rooms
The geniuses at ESPN are trying to convince us that having women enter a locker room where a bunch of big sweaty dudes are walking around with their dicks hanging out is some kind of grand human achievement.

http://espn.go.com/espnw/w-in-action/nin...cker-rooms

Quote:Women need locker room access

Back in 2003, after a couple of years covering Allen Iverson and the 76ers for the Philadelphia Inquirer, I switched to the Eagles beat. I was pregnant, and covering an 82-game NBA season, with late nights and early-morning flights, would have been too much of a grind.

It was August. The Eagles had broken training camp at Lehigh University and were back at their practice facility in South Philadelphia. I didn't know many of the players well yet, and many didn't know me.

My strategy for approaching the locker room access period was to stand near the equipment manager's window by the entrance to the locker room and wait until I saw a player I wanted to speak with. That generally kept me away from the players' lockers and out of the line of traffic to the door to the shower.

One of my first days in there, a rookie offensive lineman walked in with a few teammates, saw me and said: "Bet you like seeing all of these swinging d---s in here, don't you?"




Michael Albans/NY Daily News/Getty Images

Today's female sports reporters, like ESPN's Kelly Naqi, don't face the same obstacles their predecessors did.


The guys laughed. I didn't. I had a choice: Say something, or say nothing.

The lockers to the right nearest me belonged to the defensive backs, including Brian Dawkins, Troy Vincent and Bobby Taylor, all established players. The lockers to the left nearest me belonged to the quarterbacks, including Donovan McNabb and A.J. Feeley.

In a raised voice, I said to the lineman: "If I wanted to see swinging d---s, I'd still be covering the Sixers."

Boom.

I wasn't trying to be crude. I was trying to stand my ground. The comment prompted laughter that was louder and no longer directed at me. Players were laughing at the lineman. Vincent stood up, walked over and told the rookie that he got what he deserved, that I was welcome in the locker room and that I was to be treated with respect and dignity. And that, mercifully, was that.

On Tuesday night, I thought of Vincent and that moment while watching ESPN's Nine for IX documentary "Let Them Wear Towels," which chronicled the plight of my female predecessors in the 1970s and '80s. I've benefited immensely from the hard roads traveled by women such as Melissa Ludtke, Jane Gross, Robin Herman, Claire Smith, Michele Himmelberg and Lesley Visser, who all had to fight for the locker room access that women like me basically take for granted today.





Football Today

Robert Flores talks with NFL reporter Ashley Fox about her early experience in the locker room. Podcast Listen


Never have I been denied access to an NFL locker room. Never have I been escorted out of one simply because of my gender. Never has a coach told me to get lost or put a sign on the door saying, "No women allowed." I've encountered my share of issues and have my own calluses, but none are from having to fight for equal access. The women before me did that.

But we still must fight the misperception of why we want to be in a locker room or clubhouse in the first place. It isn't to see naked men. Trust me, an NFL locker room after a game is not a pretty place. It smells. It is usually hot. It is crowded. Tape and sweaty jerseys and shoulder pads litter the floor. Depending on who won the game, the players are either elated or infuriated, which can make gleaning information challenging.

Visitors locker rooms are uncomfortably cramped, particularly ones in older stadiums. And the volume of media covering every game is exponentially larger than it was even 10 years ago, so it is often difficult to even move around.

Going into the locker room after a game is by far the least appealing part of my job. I dread it. But as Smith so eloquently said in the documentary, that is where the stories are. The heartbreak. The emotion. The anger. The elation. That's where it is, not outside in some back hallway.

Sure, there will always be men who don't want women in the locker room. I've known one veteran NFL player for more than 20 years -- since he was in college -- and he tolerates women in the locker room but honestly believes we, including me, are there to look at naked bodies.

But I think more and more, because athletes have now grown up with women covering them in high school, then college, and then the pros, it is expected more than anything. The documentary said there are now more than 1,000 women covering sports in some capacity, and the number is only going to continue to grow.

Will we one day live in a society where female reporters won't have to endure an athlete saying something inappropriate? Probably not. Things are always going to be said. Boys will always be boys. There will always be the player who walks naked through the locker room to make the female reporters -- and the male reporters -- uncomfortable. Women are always going to have to have selective hearing and thick skin. The locker room is, as one longtime NFL executive often reminds me, the last bastion of male dominance.

But from my experience, I do think it's getting easier. I do think it's getting better. Women have to be accountable. They have to be professional. They can't dress provocatively or flirt or lean in too closely. They have a role and a responsibility to making the fragile ecosystem of the locker room work.

Is it a perfect arrangement? No. But it is an important one, and, by and large, it works.


There's another article in this retarded series about masculinizing women and calling it "progress": http://espn.go.com/espnw/w-in-action/nin...eally-come

Beating a Dead Horse
07-18-2013 06:13 PM
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LooTa Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Women in locker rooms
I was going to say something about male reporters going into female locker rooms...but then I thought "why the hell would anyone report on womens sport?"
07-18-2013 06:20 PM
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MikeCF Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Women in locker rooms
This quote sums up white problem with women:

Will we one day live in a society where female reporters won't have to endure an athlete saying something inappropriate?

There is nothing inappropriate in a locker room. At least to men.

Talk shit about race, make dick jokes, call a guy gay, it's all fair game.

Women want to enter a male space and then demand that the males who have occupied that space change their behavior to suit women.
07-18-2013 06:22 PM
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JimNortonFan Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Women in locker rooms
[Image: censored_shiancoe_dong.jpg]

What happens when they're exposed to scenes like this?

Lawsuits against the guys?
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2013 06:29 PM by JimNortonFan.)
07-18-2013 06:27 PM
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DLZ Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Women in locker rooms
I think the desire that women have to fuck with traditionally male spaces is motivated by spite and perhaps a tinge of jealousy over male comradery. Ever seen an all-female orgnanization/team? It's catty as fuck, ain't no honor there.

It's funny that being a glorified spectator/groupie (lol sports journalism) is lionized as an accomplishment, though. A lot of people barely respect the male reporters unless they're former players.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2013 06:37 PM by DLZ.)
07-18-2013 06:33 PM
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assman Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Women in locker rooms
Are there any female sports where male reporters have locker room access?

If so, I need to become a sports reporter covering women's volleyball.
07-18-2013 06:33 PM
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TheSlayer Offline
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RE: Women in locker rooms
You can tell that this is going to increase. In the past 6 months I have read countless articles on fighting sexism and inequality for female reporters in sports. There is also a push to hire more women as announcers. Can you imagine a women announcing NFL or NHL games? In the NBA, they already have Doris Burke who does colour commentary on some games and it drives me insane. I always have to watch the game on mute when she's on. I read an article about a month ago in SI about the need for the first woman broadcaster in NFL. The article even opined that NFL viewership was sexist and it would be hard to get men to listen to a woman announcer.

And once again, the worst part is that the men in power in these industries: the commissioners, the media company executives (ESPN, TNT, FOX), and the male journalists are the ones that are pushing for these changes.

Why can't women just stick to reporting women's sports?
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2013 06:38 PM by TheSlayer.)
07-18-2013 06:35 PM
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NYJ Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Women in locker rooms
I have never understood why reporters in general are allowed in the locker period. Nothing memorable has ever been said in a locker room interview after a game. It's all useless mumbo jumbo that we all ready know.

Reppin the Jersey Shore.
07-18-2013 06:41 PM
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PrimeTime32 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Women in locker rooms
I think the ultimate goal of feminism is to take away any place where dudes can just be dudes which was the locker room. Honestly I think females can't stand each other so much that they feel the need to infringe upon our sacred places and then have the nerve to complain that they don't like our behavior in such places.
07-18-2013 06:56 PM
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Therapsid Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Women in locker rooms
When you think about it, it's pretty inexplicable that sports media companies like ESPN would feel the need to promote this type of petty feminism. On the face of it, it makes no sense from a purely profit-driven perspective. Does ESPN's mostly male audience really care about female sportscasters breaking the glass ceiling of... men's locker rooms?

Of course not. As a matter of fact, female sports anchors were originally there to be eye candy for schlubs lounging on their Giants-themed beanbags.

So why are they engaged in a search for new frontiers of female victimhood? ESPN has gotten out of control with the feminism and homosexual promotion in recent years.
07-18-2013 07:15 PM
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assman
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Post: #11
RE: Women in locker rooms
A couple of years ago, I was watching a Monday night football game during breast cancer awareness month; the NFL always promotes this with pink on the uniforms and such. I loudly said that the NFL should be doing prostate cancer awareness instead. Got the evil eye from a couple of chicks at the bar who weren't even watching the game.

The NFL seems to think they can draw and keep women viewers, and they take their male viewership for granted (look at all the ridiculous Superbowl halftime shows in recent years). ESPN is doing the same. I watch less and less football every year.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2013 07:41 PM by assman.)
07-18-2013 07:40 PM
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MikeCF Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Women in locker rooms
(07-18-2013 07:40 PM)assman Wrote:  A couple of years ago, I was watching a Monday night football game during breast cancer awareness month; the NFL always promotes this with pink on the uniforms and such. I loudly said that the NFL should be doing prostate cancer awareness instead. Got the evil eye from a couple of chicks at the bar who weren't even watching the game.

The NFL seems to think they can draw and keep women viewers, and they take their male viewership for granted (look at all the ridiculous Superbowl halftime shows in recent years). ESPN is doing the same. I watch less and less football every year.

It's not really an attempt to draw views.

A corporation can't not hire women. YOu'll get shut down for discrimination.

So a company gets loaded up with women.

What do those women do? Do they focus on making life better for the male viewers, or do they start working on pet women's issues causes?

When a woman exec says she wants to dress everyone up in pink, what can you as a male exec do? Say no and suddenly she'll be suing you for discrimination.

Letting women into an organization is always a slippery slope.
07-18-2013 07:45 PM
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kenny_powers Offline
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RE: Women in locker rooms
(07-18-2013 06:35 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  You can tell that this is going to increase. In the past 6 months I have read countless articles on fighting sexism and inequality for female reporters in sports. There is also a push to hire more women as announcers. Can you imagine a women announcing NFL or NHL games? In the NBA, they already have Doris Burke who does colour commentary on some games and it drives me insane. I always have to watch the game on mute when she's on. I read an article about a month ago in SI about the need for the first woman broadcaster in NFL. The article even opined that NFL viewership was sexist and it would be hard to get men to listen to a woman announcer.

And once again, the worst part is that the men in power in these industries: the commissioners, the media company executives (ESPN, TNT, FOX), and the male journalists are the ones that are pushing for these changes.

Why can't women just stick to reporting women's sports?

One word answer : MONEY.
They want to expand the marketplace. Men will keep watching and buying but every new female viewer / fan is another person to sell too. We all know women are the largest consumers in our society.

When the media comany executives and League executives go to meet with the advertisers they have millions more viewers and a whole new demographic.

It's not about gender equality and feminism....it's about that paper!
07-18-2013 08:03 PM
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assman Offline
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RE: Women in locker rooms
(07-18-2013 07:45 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  A corporation can't not hire women. YOu'll get shut down for discrimination.

So a company gets loaded up with women.

What do those women do? Do they focus on making life better for the male viewers, or do they start working on pet women's issues causes?

When a woman exec says she wants to dress everyone up in pink, what can you as a male exec do? Say no and suddenly she'll be suing you for discrimination.
Great point, Mike. Hadn't considered it from that angle.
07-18-2013 08:12 PM
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Dusty Offline
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RE: Women in locker rooms
If I was one of the athletes, I'd walk up to the female reporter with a giant boner and get into her personal space and try to talk to her about the game.

Dancingman
07-18-2013 08:31 PM
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Hades Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Women in locker rooms
Quote:They have a role and a responsibility to making the fragile ecosystem of the locker room work.

No they don't, and they never did. What about reporters in locker rooms ever made the locker room work better?
07-18-2013 08:46 PM
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HeyPete Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Women in locker rooms
(07-18-2013 08:31 PM)Dusty Wrote:  If I was one of the athletes, I'd walk up to the female reporter with a giant boner and get into her personal space and try to talk to her about the game.

Dancingman

I was a sports reporter waay back when. It was well known that Reggie Jackson used to do this often. Though it was before my time.

He used to say, upon removing his towel, "Does this look OK to you?"
07-18-2013 09:33 PM
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Tuthmosis Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Women in locker rooms
(07-18-2013 06:22 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Women want to enter a male space and then demand that the males who have occupied that space change their behavior to suit women.

Co-sign on this and everything else that's been said above. There's this push to put women in male spaces everywhere you look. Frankly, I think this another giant "shit test"--women checking just how much they can get away with. With few guys brave enough to draw the line somewhere, they're continuing to encroach-and-fuck-up with impunity. Meanwhile, men aren't doing the same and occupying female spaces. In the rare cases that they try, they tend to be unsuccessful.

The same goes with (often less-than-good) female sports reporters outside of the locker room. We've talked about it elsewhere in the forum, but this clip that I saw the other day struck me as particularly egregious.

Chicks aren't just commenting on sports anymore, they're leading the panels. Tell me this isn't ass-backward (watch beginning of the video at top of article):

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story...james-2014

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07-18-2013 10:09 PM
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soup Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Women in locker rooms
Thought I was going to see more along the lines of this when I opened this thread[Image: tumblr_m45fgaYRBB1qck0jmo1_1280.png]
07-18-2013 10:11 PM
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Gmac Offline
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RE: Women in locker rooms
They shoulda made a bukakke themed video out of that reporter... woulda stopped recurrence.

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07-18-2013 10:14 PM
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Dusty Offline
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RE: Women in locker rooms
(07-18-2013 09:33 PM)HeyPete Wrote:  
(07-18-2013 08:31 PM)Dusty Wrote:  If I was one of the athletes, I'd walk up to the female reporter with a giant boner and get into her personal space and try to talk to her about the game.

Dancingman

I was a sports reporter waay back when. It was well known that Reggie Jackson used to do this often. Though it was before my time.

He used to say, upon removing his towel, "Does this look OK to you?"

And now we have Viagra to facilitate.
07-18-2013 10:17 PM
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