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Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
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booshala Offline
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Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
Even though the original poster was quickly banned, he brought up an interesting thread here regarding credit card arbitrage: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-27755.html It's interesting because I'm wondering what other sorts of hustles guys are doing out there right now.

I'm not talking about full-time/seasonal stuff like import/exporting cars or Christmas trees, that have been featured in other hustle posts... but things that fit within your lifestyle and don't change the dynamics of your life, with very little time investment. For instance, I'll be the first to share:

I think I'm a born hustler. Back in the late 80's, I would go on Costco runs with my parents, buy bulk candies and then sell them on campus out of my backpack. Some weeks, I would clear $100 in profit (for a 9 year old kid, that's some "fuck you money") and was so successful, the student store finally complained to the principal and shut me down. I was also the kid that would sign up to collect donations for all kinds of school activities (jog-a-thon, library fundraiser, etc) and would then just pocket the cash the adults gave me. Even back then I realized how easy this stuff was.

Unfortunately, my fatal flaw is that as much as I love to hustle, I don't like to work very hard. I had a few failed businesses early on and one spectacular run during the housing boom... knowing my poor work ethic, I have currently set myself up with a really cushy job, lots of vacation time and a very reasonable work load. I love my job, but it does get a little boring.

So to keep my mind sharp, for the past few years I've been supplementing my decent 9-5 income with side hustles which take very little time. And going over my annual expense/income spreadsheets, I'm pretty surprised at the amount of money I've made in the past few years from these side gigs.

Some of my everyday hustles I'm running currently:

1. Sign up for all "applicable" class action settlements: http://www.Topclassactions.com is the definitive resource for finding information on class action lawsuits throughout the US. Needless to say, you're only supposed to sign up for the ones that pertain to your situation, but I'm sure many of you are cosmopolitan gentlemen and thus eligible for most of these payouts. I know I am. You'd be very surprised to see what some of these dish out! My biggest check was for $1800 for a racial discrimination settlement against Abercrombie, and I routinely get $200+ checks from constantly doing these settlements. Even the $15-$20 settlements are often very easy and paperwork takes 2 minutes to complete. I keep a steady rotation of these going, as the checks usually take 6-12 months to get paid out, and they keep on coming in like clockwork month after month. Annually, I think I average around $1500-$2500 a year from these settlement checks and this is the easiest source of income I make.

2. Internet Reviews and Posts: I write as a guest columnist for a travel blogger and also used to write paid reviews for a Yelp wannabe site. I also jumped on GManifesto's call for social media help and I think I made about $80 off of 45 minutes of work. The travel blogger bit pays the most at a couple of hundred dollars a month, and it only takes me about three to four hours to write out my allotted posts. Total: $4500 annually.

3. Travel consulting: Through a number of different strategies, I amass anywhere from 300,000-500,000 air miles and hotel points annually. How I do that is beyond the scope of this thread, but needless to say, there's a robust secondary market for these travel points. I'd estimate I make around $5000 annually from this venture and keep the stress very low as I only work with close friends. I did make one exception here in this thread: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-27141.html

Things I'm looking to get into:

1. Becoming a Lyft driver: Lyft is a ridesharing service that allows regular people to essentially use their own cars as a quasi-taxi service. I've used it extensively around town, and the drivers are normally quite happy with how the split is calculated. I'm told it's not unheard of to make $800 in a busy weekend (granted you have to deal with drunkards after last call in the party areas) but to be conservative, I could work one weekend a month (perfectly acceptable) and book $400 conservatively. That's $4,800 annually.

2. Freelancing: I've been very interested in BeyondBorders and a couple of other guys' posts who make their living doing freelance writing. I understand there's quite the barrier to entry, and I'm not looking to quit my 9-5, but it'd be great to burrow deep in the beginning, make a decent name for myself and then live off of repeat customers. I'd be more than happy making a couple hundred dollars a month. Lets say an even $3000 a year for 10 hours a month.

3. Reselling on Ebay/Craigslist: I've only done this a few times, but it seems like a pretty interesting gig. I have a buddy who used to work for bowflex who would get me those adjustable dumbbell racks for 80% off. I'd then post them on craigslist for $75 less than retail without any sales tax and would sell them at the local car wash parking lot. Had another friend who did this with a connection at Best Buy, who made lots of money.

4. Currency Arbitrage in Argentina: There's another post on RVF that sums it up perfectly. Just type in "arbitrage" and "argentina" and you should find it. I did this a few times, but need to further explore to truly monetize it.

My favorite hustles of the past:

1. 0% Cash advances: My family friend got me into this, and at one point I had about $200,000 in cash I had garnered through 0% cash advances. I then invested this money in a bunch of online checking accounts that were paying out 5-6% interest. I'd pay off the minimum monthly payments on the 0% credit cards, collect the monthly interest and the spread was my profit. I only did it for a year and a half, but aside from the logistics of applying for the cards and setting up the accounts, it was an easy $10,000 annually. Of course, with interest rates being what they are now, this is impossible without a huge amount of risk investing the money in other venues.

2. 5% cash back AARP card: As referenced in the "Credit card arbitrage" thread, I would buy thousands of $1 coins from the US Mint at cost, deposit them as legal tender in my bank accounts and then pay off my AARP card balance with the funds. The 5% cash back rate was good for 6 months and was ostensibly a teaser to get grandma/grandpa to put their livings costs on a credit card instead of holding up the goddamn line at Safeway writing a check. Anyway, in 6 months, I hit this pretty hard and bought around $300,000 in $1 coins. Shlepping close to 3 tons of coins over 6 months was not easy on my car's transmission or my back, but the $15k in tax free money (rebates aren't considered taxable income) was a welcome relief.

3. Sushi chef: My family has a Japanese restaurant and for a few years, I managed and worked behind the sushi bar. Having made a lot of contacts in that field, I exited the restaurant industry but would still act as a "mercenary chef" for restaurant owners who needed quick, reliable help behind the sushi bar. This would usually happen when several chefs would quit at once, an all too often occurrence. Pay would usually be a prorated fee of $1000 a week for dinner shifts (would drive directly from work to the restaurant) plus tips and would never be more than 10 days at the most.

What I do with my money: I invest half of my "hustle money" in P2P lending with Lending Club and Prosper. It's not completely risk-free, but my default rate has thus been quite low and I've made consistent returns of 7%+. This has allowed me to further leverage my hustle money by adding a multiplier effect. The other half, I allow myself to blow on gaming girls and traveling, the two great loves of my life.

In Conclusion:

I hope that this post doesn't come across as self-congratulatory, but ideally, more of a way to inspire discussion and give back to the RVF community. "Game" is very appealing because it's the ultimate form of psychological hustle to me, and without this forum and Roosh's writings, I know I would lead a much sadder life.

In the past three years, I've never made less than $15,000 annually from these hustles and in 2011, I set a record at just over $27,000. That's a pretty significant percentage of my 9-5 salary, plus it allows a lot of my expenses to be counted as tax breaks. Ultimately, what I'm saying is that you can really make some decent coin without really affecting your life all that much.

I'm hoping that this thread encourages a lot of sharing and passing around of ideas: I always have time for another hustle or two.
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2013 02:18 AM by booshala.)
09-05-2013 01:57 AM
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OSL Offline
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - Lifestyle Engineering


09-05-2013 02:50 AM
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Thomas the Rhymer Offline
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
Shouldn't this topic belong in this thread?
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-14723.html

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09-05-2013 03:36 AM
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yolo Offline
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
I've been mad hustling Bitcoin lately although the arbitrage is getting harder and harder. I met a miner who'd give me a bulk discount on Bitcoin. I'd buy $5k worth, and sell it in 1-2 days for $5.8k, and then repeat the process again. The miner is becoming less and less available now though so I'm looking for more opportunities.

Also, I rent my condo out for supplemental income and live in a smaller place.
09-05-2013 09:32 AM
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Parlay44 Offline
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
Quote:3. Reselling on Ebay/Craigslist: I've only done this a few times, but it seems like a pretty interesting gig. I have a buddy who used to work for bowflex who would get me those adjustable dumbbell racks for 80% off. I'd then post them on craigslist for $75 less than retail without any sales tax and would sell them at the local car wash parking lot. Had another friend who did this with a connection at Best Buy, who made lots of money.

Yup. Get your stuff cheap from yard sales and list on eBay. Anything collectible like name brand stuff or old toys are gold.

I'm a little more cutting edge with my reselling. Whatever the hot game system is at the time I'll buy up and resell on eBay at Christmas time. Buy from Walmart if possible. They have a 30 return policy. No risk.

If you can find them Apple TVs and Google Chromecast are going for more than double of retail. Easy quick flips.

I also softmod Wiis for people. $50 hard drive,$4 sd card and 10 minutes of my time to set it up. I charge $100-125 for a hard drive full of 200 games. Super easy $50 profit.

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09-05-2013 09:46 AM
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TopPanda Offline
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
Best advice I can give you guys is to live a frugal life, and stuff your money into property and income producing investments instead of buying DVD's and junk.

3-4 years of frugal living and I'm now living in Thailand. My investment income now pays my rent here. And since I quit my job I have a gigantic amount of time to hustle (and also have fun). I pity guys still stuck as cubicle slaves and clock watchers. I don't even know what day it is. I sleep when I'm tired, eat when I'm hungry and generally just enjoy life.


Hmm, just realised it's Thursday. I thought it was Wednesday. Lol.

Stuff I've seen on my travels...
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09-05-2013 11:02 AM
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WestCoast Offline
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
^ what? How is your run of the mill guy going to retire in 4 years ha.

Avg dude makes say $40-50 after tax even if you keep it all that ain't going anywhere.
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2013 11:08 AM by WestCoast.)
09-05-2013 11:07 AM
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
TopPanda,

Very cool. Not trying to get into all your details, but you mentioned it pays your rent, do you do some work on the side to cover the rest?

Thanks!

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(This post was last modified: 09-05-2013 11:08 AM by samsamsam.)
09-05-2013 11:08 AM
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booshala Offline
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
(09-05-2013 11:02 AM)TopPanda Wrote:  Best advice I can give you guys is to live a frugal life, and stuff your money into property and income producing investments instead of buying DVD's and junk.

3-4 years of frugal living and I'm now living in Thailand. My investment income now pays my rent here. And since I quit my job I have a gigantic amount of time to hustle (and also have fun). I pity guys still stuck as cubicle slaves and clock watchers. I don't even know what day it is. I sleep when I'm tired, eat when I'm hungry and generally just enjoy life.


Hmm, just realised it's Thursday. I thought it was Wednesday. Lol.

I have low six figures in liquid assets but as cheap as bkk is, I don't think that would be enough to live the lifestyle I like. Was just there last month and drinks at the red sky bar were LA prices. Condos I liked near BTS was also around 7 million baht. I realize I could live up north or in the sticks, but I'm a city boy. Ideally, to live without worrying about money in bkk and not worry about working, i would probably need 4-5x what I have now.

I think the only place where my current stash would stretch far enough is Cambodia or very remote parts of SEA or Latin America. I quite like having a cushy 9-5 and using hustles to subsidize if not outright pay for travel and women.
09-05-2013 02:24 PM
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
Can you make a thread in the travel section on how you accumulate that many points?
09-05-2013 03:20 PM
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Pinocchio Offline
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
i thought about constantly buying and selling your car. It would basically mean getting on autotrader, finding private buyers and offering cash for below market price. Then either doing some minor work or instantly putting it back on the market just above market value. rinse and repeat until your driving sick car.
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2013 03:32 PM by Pinocchio.)
09-05-2013 03:30 PM
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Virtus Offline
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
(09-05-2013 03:30 PM)Pinocchio Wrote:  i thought about constantly buying and selling your car. It would basically mean getting on autotrader, finding private buyers and offering cash for below market price. Then either doing some minor work or instantly putting it back on the market just above market value. rinse and repeat until your driving sick car.

The state takes sales tax in the states. plus smog/registration fees

So that is about 10% of car price in california

My current line of thinking is doing about once a year but adding ~ 500-1000 dollars and getting into a newer and newer used car. this way I can stay above the market value depreciation cliff all it costs me is a grand a year

also trading car for truck for boat for car for truck for boat at infinity seems like a good thing. people always want what they don't have and undervalue on trades

"Virtus"
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2013 01:46 AM by Virtus.)
09-06-2013 01:45 AM
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
(09-05-2013 03:30 PM)Pinocchio Wrote:  i thought about constantly buying and selling your car. It would basically mean getting on autotrader, finding private buyers and offering cash for below market price. Then either doing some minor work or instantly putting it back on the market just above market value. rinse and repeat until your driving sick car.

You would have to pay tax on every transaction in order to get the Title.
09-06-2013 01:50 AM
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Beyond Borders Away
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
(09-05-2013 11:07 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  ^ what? How is your run of the mill guy going to retire in 4 years ha.

Avg dude makes say $40-50 after tax even if you keep it all that ain't going anywhere.

http://www.amazon.com/Early-Retirement-E...nt+extreme

A 4 Part breakdown by the author can be found on his blog here: How I Became Financially Independent in 5 Years - Part 1

WestCoast, I understand it's not something you agree with, as it doesn't suit your lifestyle needs and personal philosophies, but with out of the box thinking and going extremely frugal for a short time, it is possible. Surely you can acknowledge that even if you don't think it's ideal.

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(This post was last modified: 09-06-2013 03:07 AM by Beyond Borders.)
09-06-2013 02:56 AM
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
^ i just put the numbers up there. Even if you make $100K a year and save 100% of it (roughly $60K after tax). Meaning you live in a homeless shelter... You're still not going anywhere in 5 years at a three handle.

I'm probably one of the biggest "budget players" on here given my city + living situation but the math simply doesn't work. If you want to smash 7s and above regularly, you would need quite a bit of cash in the states or at least $4-5K net spend outside of the states.

That's closer to a 7 or 8 handle.

I have read all those ERE blogs in the past, the math works for a non-player. Once you want to smash 7+'s regularly you need cash flow and time.

I mean shit I spend less than I did when I got my first job out of college nowadays.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2013 08:23 AM by WestCoast.)
09-06-2013 08:16 AM
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
So with the class action thing, what do you put down in the forms where they ask for proof that you're part of the class action suit? i.e. papa john's sent out illegal text messages. On the claim for it asks what your cell phone was in 2009 to 2010. Just curious.
09-06-2013 10:30 AM
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
OK there's obviously bit of interest in my story. I'll write more some time.

But basically, I hear about guys coming to China/Thailand and spending $$$ on cocktails and $$$$$ on condos with helipads and roof gardens etc. etc. etc.

That ain't my world. I pay 10,000 baht a month in rent (~$300), but you know what? There are farangs here who pay 2,500 a month rent!

While I was living in China I went to a Westerner bar. Guess what? A bottle of imported Magners cider cost 65RMB - back in my piss poor neighbourhood of Guangzhou that would buy 18 bottles of local beer.

So how much you need to retire or live abroad for a while is entirely up to the lifestyle you lead.

But I'll tell you this - you spend $$$$, you'll attract women who want $$$$$.

I'm not really into the whole game thing, but if you want to date hot girls in Asia, just learn the local language and go somewhere obscure. A 20 minute bus journey in Bangkok will get you to reasonably farang-free shopping malls. I lived in Baiyun in Guangzhou and I'd regularly go a whole day without seeing a single white face. I went to Hubei Province for a week and only saw 1 other Westerner, and that was a woman! Who needs game here? There are more 10's than you can possibly imagine, and apartments for $150 a month.

Being on the road I have to be reasonably frugal anyway. I can only buy stuff that will fit in my 20Kg luggage limit. So I rarely buy anything. I've been on the road for 6 months now, and I don't miss any of my junk sitting back in my parent's house! I wish I'd sold more of it.

I'm not truly retired though. Don't think retired dudes sit at home watching TV all day. You need to keep busy. I do C# and stuff. But I'm retired in that I never have to set my alarm clock, and I have masses of free time.

As to investments, in the UK and Europe we seem to have a lot more choice in high yielding investments. I hoovered up stuff yielding 10%+ back in 2010. But there's always something worth investing in. Like stock markets have been high recently, but betting against the Thai baht recently has been a winning trade - 6% in a month in the case of the pound.

Property can be good - the guys I was at university with who bought properties are now very well off indeed. If you're young, buy a house and rent out the rooms or something.

Stuff I've seen on my travels...
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09-06-2013 12:06 PM
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RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
(09-06-2013 12:06 PM)TopPanda Wrote:  OK there's obviously bit of interest in my story. I'll write more some time.

But basically, I hear about guys coming to China/Thailand and spending $$$ on cocktails and $$$$$ on condos with helipads and roof gardens etc. etc. etc.

That ain't my world. I pay 10,000 baht a month in rent (~$300), but you know what? There are farangs here who pay 2,500 a month rent!

While I was living in China I went to a Westerner bar. Guess what? A bottle of imported Magners cider cost 65RMB - back in my piss poor neighbourhood of Guangzhou that would buy 18 bottles of local beer.

So how much you need to retire or live abroad for a while is entirely up to the lifestyle you lead.

But I'll tell you this - you spend $$$$, you'll attract women who want $$$$$.


I'm not really into the whole game thing, but if you want to date hot girls in Asia, just learn the local language and go somewhere obscure. A 20 minute bus journey in Bangkok will get you to reasonably farang-free shopping malls. I lived in Baiyun in Guangzhou and I'd regularly go a whole day without seeing a single white face. I went to Hubei Province for a week and only saw 1 other Westerner, and that was a woman! Who needs game here? There are more 10's than you can possibly imagine, and apartments for $150 a month.

Being on the road I have to be reasonably frugal anyway. I can only buy stuff that will fit in my 20Kg luggage limit. So I rarely buy anything. I've been on the road for 6 months now, and I don't miss any of my junk sitting back in my parent's house! I wish I'd sold more of it.

I'm not truly retired though. Don't think retired dudes sit at home watching TV all day. You need to keep busy. I do C# and stuff. But I'm retired in that I never have to set my alarm clock, and I have masses of free time.

As to investments, in the UK and Europe we seem to have a lot more choice in high yielding investments. I hoovered up stuff yielding 10%+ back in 2010. But there's always something worth investing in. Like stock markets have been high recently, but betting against the Thai baht recently has been a winning trade - 6% in a month in the case of the pound.

Property can be good - the guys I was at university with who bought properties are now very well off indeed. If you're young, buy a house and rent out the rooms or something.

I agree strongly with both of these points.

Nice to see another China/Thailand guy in here. Probably my two favorite Asian countries.

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09-06-2013 07:16 PM
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Post: #19
RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
(09-06-2013 02:56 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  
(09-05-2013 11:07 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  ^ what? How is your run of the mill guy going to retire in 4 years ha.

Avg dude makes say $40-50 after tax even if you keep it all that ain't going anywhere.

http://www.amazon.com/Early-Retirement-E...nt+extreme

A 4 Part breakdown by the author can be found on his blog here: How I Became Financially Independent in 5 Years - Part 1

WestCoast, I understand it's not something you agree with, as it doesn't suit your lifestyle needs and personal philosophies, but with out of the box thinking and going extremely frugal for a short time, it is possible. Surely you can acknowledge that even if you don't think it's ideal.

I've read that guys blog before and although I took away a lot of good ideas. That being said, his lifestyle is not attractive to me. I think I remember he lives in an RV and goes out in the fields to practice his swordplay as his major hobbies.
09-06-2013 07:47 PM
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booshala Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
(09-06-2013 10:30 AM)Tytalus Wrote:  So with the class action thing, what do you put down in the forms where they ask for proof that you're part of the class action suit? i.e. papa john's sent out illegal text messages. On the claim for it asks what your cell phone was in 2009 to 2010. Just curious.

Use your best judgment. If its invite only, there's nothing you can do but if it is open you just have to electronically sign affirming that you're telling the truth.
09-06-2013 07:49 PM
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MikeCF Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
(09-06-2013 02:56 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  A 4 Part breakdown by the author can be found on his blog here: How I Became Financially Independent in 5 Years - Part 1

WestCoast, I understand it's not something you agree with, as it doesn't suit your lifestyle needs and personal philosophies, but with out of the box thinking and going extremely frugal for a short time, it is possible. Surely you can acknowledge that even if you don't think it's ideal.

You can cut through a lot of bullshit by learning simple math.

For example, a famous basketball player claimed to have slept with 10,000 women.

A large number like that is hard for humans to comprehend. But some simple math helps us related to it.



Now the claim sounds less plausible, even for a top NBA star.

So....When a guy says he retired after working for years, lets do the math.

How much did the guy earn? How much did he save? It is possible to "live entirely off of investment income" from that?

I've spoken to many guys who live comfortable lives in Thailand off of $1,500 (although many say you need $2,500 to really enjoy yourself.)

How much money would you need to earn $1,500 a month?

$1,500/month = $18,000 a year.

How large would your investment need to be in order to kick off $18,000?

If you can generate 10% returns, you are a stud.

Thus the guy would need a principal balance of $180,000 to get that $18,000.

How did he save $180,000 in four years?

Maybe he bought a house and levered up for those returns?

Even then, how is he getting $18,000 a year after paying mortgage expenses?

See...The guy's claim is - to put it kindly - a bit "off."

Now, maybe he worked in a large law firm earning $175,000 his first year and working up to $250,000 his 4th year.

And he had no student loans and thus was able to save $180,000 over those 4 years.

But without that info, it doesn't make much sense to trust his claims.
09-06-2013 08:01 PM
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WestCoast Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
^ don't forget to tax all that at 35% cap gains would be short term if you're spending monthly.

If you're doing dividends there is no fund spitting 10% (which is 8.5% net).

You can smash it all up fast.

There is no player on here killing it on $1,000 a month get real. You're in cash burn land or top 1% looks and top 1% game.

You need $4-5K to "kill it" in Latin America . Never been to Thailand sounds like $3K based on what I have seen on here.

Use $40K a year and 5% returns to live in perpetuity. That's a twenty bagger. 20.

8 handle. 5 years? Laugh
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2013 10:22 PM by WestCoast.)
09-06-2013 10:08 PM
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ImmoralPsychology Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
What is an x-handle? (8-handle, etc.)
09-06-2013 10:32 PM
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WestCoast Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
Ha huge off topic I am talking street speak. My bad.

8 handle is the first digit. So if you're talking in multiples of hundred thousands, when they talk about compensation it's usually "so and so is making around a X handle".

8 handle would be $800,000

"Bagger" just refers to the multiple. Example $10 turned into $80 would be an "eight bagger".

For fun, a "stick" is a million. So if someone made two sticks last year that's 2 million.

(Usually no one says half a million dollars, they would say "half a stick")
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2013 10:56 PM by WestCoast.)
09-06-2013 10:52 PM
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ImmoralPsychology Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Supplementing Your Income with Side Hustles - $15,000 US a year
I know bagger, but never figured out handle. Seen it a handful of times but first time I asked. Thanks.
09-06-2013 11:19 PM
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