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Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
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roid Offline
Woodpecker
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Post: #26
RE: Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
(12-05-2013 07:51 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  Move to Singapore, live frugally in an Airbnb apt......

If necessary, become a citizen of Singapore and renounce your US citizenship to get rid of worldwide taxation for the rest of your life

AirBNB apartment is more expensive in Singapore than long term rental. Besides you cannot live frugally in Singapore. Everything here is fucking expensive. A studio apartment will set you back S$4000 a month.

Although Singapore is low tax country in terms of income tax, it has much much more indirect tax and as a result, it is much more expensive to live here than US. So you're just trading one poison with another poison when you change nationality.
12-07-2013 12:25 PM
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OSL Offline
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Posts: 1,917
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Post: #27
RE: Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
(12-07-2013 12:25 PM)roid Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 07:51 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  Move to Singapore, live frugally in an Airbnb apt......

If necessary, become a citizen of Singapore and renounce your US citizenship to get rid of worldwide taxation for the rest of your life

AirBNB apartment is more expensive in Singapore than long term rental. Besides you cannot live frugally in Singapore. Everything here is fucking expensive. A studio apartment will set you back S$4000 a month.

Although Singapore is low tax country in terms of income tax, it has much much more indirect tax and as a result, it is much more expensive to live here than US. So you're just trading one poison with another poison when you change nationality.

AIRBNB / APARTMENTS

Since you can't get an apartment lease without an employment pass you use the airbnb apartment as a short term living hack while you try to raise capital. You do not want to live in an Airbnb spot for more than 2 months. If you are trying to raise capital then you will need to find a solution between a long term rental and a hotel. That is exactly what Airbnb is.

Once you raise capital you gain an employment pass and then you can open a local bank account and also sign a long term lease on a rental. This is a catch 22 situation as you can't get an employment pass until you are "hired" by the corporation for which you raise capital. Thus you have to play the airbnb and tourist visa game for a period of 3 months or so while you are trying to hack the VC situation.

I know this hack from experience because I did it myself.



FRUGALITY

Living frugally is a relative term. For 3000 USD you are blowing through cash in Thailand. For 3000 USD you are frugal in NYC. The definition of frugal is thus used in the context of one's personal spending habits and not in the context of the absolute amount of money spent.

In the case of Singapore, frugality means not going to clubs and blowing through cash on drinks, not taking taxis when possible, and making use of public goods and services in general. Frugal in Chiang Mai is 700 USD a month. Frugal in Singapore is 2500 USD a month, which is a bit over 3000 SGD per month. Assuming you get an Airbnb rental that is under 1000 SGD, you will be able to spend an average of 500 SGD per week after that - totally doable. Given the OP's savings, that is a reasonable monthly burn if he is taking public transport, eating at hawker centers, and living at one of the cheaper airbnb rentals.

I know this hack from experience because I did it myself.



TAXATION

WORLDWIDE taxation. Singaporean citizens are not taxed on income they make outside of Singapore as long as they do not repatriate it. US citizens are taxed on all of their income they make, regardless of whether it is in the US or not.

The trick once you gain citizenship is to not actually live in Singapore. US citizens get taxed on all of their income worldwide, whereas Singaporeans do not.

Get a SG citizenship and then live in Thailand, Colombia, Europe as a tourist. You also avoid local taxation in these countries if you enter as a tourist.

I know this hack because one of our investors is doing this.

-----

However, Roid is correct about the following:

1. There is a massive and ridiculous amount of indirect taxation in your every day life. This is most visible in booze prices.

2. Singapore is absurdly expensive. I perhaps should have defined "Frugal" a bit more clearly. What I meant was that you would be living frugally relative to SINGAPORE prices and not some standard global definition of what "Frugal" is. I didn't think anyone here is mistaken about the cost of living in Singapore so I assumed that would be obvious, my bad.

3. A (nice and central) studio apartment will set you back 4K SGD a month. Unfortunately yes, that is where rental prices have come.

Roid, please understand that this sequence of tips and advice is specific to people who are trying to raise capital in Singapore while not yet having an employment pass and that the taxation tips are specific to US citizens, who face a global taxation scheme that nobody else in the developed world faces.

Nothing you said is actually incorrect; I feel you may have misinterpreted the reason why I laid out what I said and especially in that particular order.

The assumption is that this is a US citizen who is raising capital in Singapore and wants to do it in the most efficient order possible.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2013 08:28 PM by OSL.)
12-07-2013 08:22 PM
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2014 Offline
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Posts: 232
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #28
RE: Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
(12-07-2013 08:22 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  
(12-07-2013 12:25 PM)roid Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 07:51 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  Move to Singapore, live frugally in an Airbnb apt......

If necessary, become a citizen of Singapore and renounce your US citizenship to get rid of worldwide taxation for the rest of your life

AirBNB apartment is more expensive in Singapore than long term rental. Besides you cannot live frugally in Singapore. Everything here is fucking expensive. A studio apartment will set you back S$4000 a month.

Although Singapore is low tax country in terms of income tax, it has much much more indirect tax and as a result, it is much more expensive to live here than US. So you're just trading one poison with another poison when you change nationality.

AIRBNB / APARTMENTS

Since you can't get an apartment lease without an employment pass you use the airbnb apartment as a short term living hack while you try to raise capital. You do not want to live in an Airbnb spot for more than 2 months. If you are trying to raise capital then you will need to find a solution between a long term rental and a hotel. That is exactly what Airbnb is.

Once you raise capital you gain an employment pass and then you can open a local bank account and also sign a long term lease on a rental. This is a catch 22 situation as you can't get an employment pass until you are "hired" by the corporation for which you raise capital. Thus you have to play the airbnb and tourist visa game for a period of 3 months or so while you are trying to hack the VC situation.

I know this hack from experience because I did it myself.



FRUGALITY

Living frugally is a relative term. For 3000 USD you are blowing through cash in Thailand. For 3000 USD you are frugal in NYC. The definition of frugal is thus used in the context of one's personal spending habits and not in the context of the absolute amount of money spent.

In the case of Singapore, frugality means not going to clubs and blowing through cash on drinks, not taking taxis when possible, and making use of public goods and services in general. Frugal in Chiang Mai is 700 USD a month. Frugal in Singapore is 2500 USD a month, which is a bit over 3000 SGD per month. Assuming you get an Airbnb rental that is under 1000 SGD, you will be able to spend an average of 500 SGD per week after that - totally doable. Given the OP's savings, that is a reasonable monthly burn if he is taking public transport, eating at hawker centers, and living at one of the cheaper airbnb rentals.

I know this hack from experience because I did it myself.



TAXATION

WORLDWIDE taxation. Singaporean citizens are not taxed on income they make outside of Singapore as long as they do not repatriate it. US citizens are taxed on all of their income they make, regardless of whether it is in the US or not.

The trick once you gain citizenship is to not actually live in Singapore. US citizens get taxed on all of their income worldwide, whereas Singaporeans do not.

Get a SG citizenship and then live in Thailand, Colombia, Europe as a tourist. You also avoid local taxation in these countries if you enter as a tourist.

I know this hack because one of our investors is doing this.

-----

However, Roid is correct about the following:

1. There is a massive and ridiculous amount of indirect taxation in your every day life. This is most visible in booze prices.

2. Singapore is absurdly expensive. I perhaps should have defined "Frugal" a bit more clearly. What I meant was that you would be living frugally relative to SINGAPORE prices and not some standard global definition of what "Frugal" is. I didn't think anyone here is mistaken about the cost of living in Singapore so I assumed that would be obvious, my bad.

3. A (nice and central) studio apartment will set you back 4K SGD a month. Unfortunately yes, that is where rental prices have come.

Roid, please understand that this sequence of tips and advice is specific to people who are trying to raise capital in Singapore while not yet having an employment pass and that the taxation tips are specific to US citizens, who face a global taxation scheme that nobody else in the developed world faces.

Nothing you said is actually incorrect; I feel you may have misinterpreted the reason why I laid out what I said and especially in that particular order.

The assumption is that this is a US citizen who is raising capital in Singapore and wants to do it in the most efficient order possible.

There are easier ways than going to Singapore to do this. Hong Kong and set up your own company there will be cheaper and cost much less to set up. Another thing you could do is get a citizenship in Paraguay like Jeff Berwick recommends in his TDV website ... also cheaper and better than slumming it around in Singapore. Finally, just use a Kickstarter or indiegogo campaign to raise capital. If the idea is good, it's much easier and quicker to set up a campaign on one of those two sites rather than trying to do it on a whim with a trip to singapore.
12-08-2013 12:38 AM
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MHaes Offline
Kingfisher
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Post: #29
RE: Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
^Paraguay recently elected a new President who is very keen on raising taxes. Taxes are only 13% of its GDP, and he wants to change that, so IDK I would hold off on doing something as drastic as getting Paraguayan citizenship until you see what happens there.

"I ain't brown bread"
12-08-2013 12:48 AM
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2014 Offline
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Posts: 232
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #30
RE: Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
foreign earned income tax is 0%
12-08-2013 12:59 AM
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OSL Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
(12-08-2013 12:38 AM)2014 Wrote:  
(12-07-2013 08:22 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  
(12-07-2013 12:25 PM)roid Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 07:51 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  Move to Singapore, live frugally in an Airbnb apt......

If necessary, become a citizen of Singapore and renounce your US citizenship to get rid of worldwide taxation for the rest of your life

AirBNB apartment is more expensive in Singapore than long term rental. Besides you cannot live frugally in Singapore. Everything here is fucking expensive. A studio apartment will set you back S$4000 a month.

Although Singapore is low tax country in terms of income tax, it has much much more indirect tax and as a result, it is much more expensive to live here than US. So you're just trading one poison with another poison when you change nationality.

AIRBNB / APARTMENTS

Since you can't get an apartment lease without an employment pass you use the airbnb apartment as a short term living hack while you try to raise capital. You do not want to live in an Airbnb spot for more than 2 months. If you are trying to raise capital then you will need to find a solution between a long term rental and a hotel. That is exactly what Airbnb is.

Once you raise capital you gain an employment pass and then you can open a local bank account and also sign a long term lease on a rental. This is a catch 22 situation as you can't get an employment pass until you are "hired" by the corporation for which you raise capital. Thus you have to play the airbnb and tourist visa game for a period of 3 months or so while you are trying to hack the VC situation.

I know this hack from experience because I did it myself.



FRUGALITY

Living frugally is a relative term. For 3000 USD you are blowing through cash in Thailand. For 3000 USD you are frugal in NYC. The definition of frugal is thus used in the context of one's personal spending habits and not in the context of the absolute amount of money spent.

In the case of Singapore, frugality means not going to clubs and blowing through cash on drinks, not taking taxis when possible, and making use of public goods and services in general. Frugal in Chiang Mai is 700 USD a month. Frugal in Singapore is 2500 USD a month, which is a bit over 3000 SGD per month. Assuming you get an Airbnb rental that is under 1000 SGD, you will be able to spend an average of 500 SGD per week after that - totally doable. Given the OP's savings, that is a reasonable monthly burn if he is taking public transport, eating at hawker centers, and living at one of the cheaper airbnb rentals.

I know this hack from experience because I did it myself.



TAXATION

WORLDWIDE taxation. Singaporean citizens are not taxed on income they make outside of Singapore as long as they do not repatriate it. US citizens are taxed on all of their income they make, regardless of whether it is in the US or not.

The trick once you gain citizenship is to not actually live in Singapore. US citizens get taxed on all of their income worldwide, whereas Singaporeans do not.

Get a SG citizenship and then live in Thailand, Colombia, Europe as a tourist. You also avoid local taxation in these countries if you enter as a tourist.

I know this hack because one of our investors is doing this.

-----

However, Roid is correct about the following:

1. There is a massive and ridiculous amount of indirect taxation in your every day life. This is most visible in booze prices.

2. Singapore is absurdly expensive. I perhaps should have defined "Frugal" a bit more clearly. What I meant was that you would be living frugally relative to SINGAPORE prices and not some standard global definition of what "Frugal" is. I didn't think anyone here is mistaken about the cost of living in Singapore so I assumed that would be obvious, my bad.

3. A (nice and central) studio apartment will set you back 4K SGD a month. Unfortunately yes, that is where rental prices have come.

Roid, please understand that this sequence of tips and advice is specific to people who are trying to raise capital in Singapore while not yet having an employment pass and that the taxation tips are specific to US citizens, who face a global taxation scheme that nobody else in the developed world faces.

Nothing you said is actually incorrect; I feel you may have misinterpreted the reason why I laid out what I said and especially in that particular order.

The assumption is that this is a US citizen who is raising capital in Singapore and wants to do it in the most efficient order possible.

There are easier ways than going to Singapore to do this. Hong Kong and set up your own company there will be cheaper and cost much less to set up. Another thing you could do is get a citizenship in Paraguay like Jeff Berwick recommends in his TDV website ... also cheaper and better than slumming it around in Singapore. Finally, just use a Kickstarter or indiegogo campaign to raise capital. If the idea is good, it's much easier and quicker to set up a campaign on one of those two sites rather than trying to do it on a whim with a trip to singapore.

I own a HK corp that I set up in 2012 so I have experience with both SG and HK in this context.

While it's true that it is cheaper to set up in HK are downsides in the longer run. The extra paperwork and auditing necessary is a distraction and nuisance [original documentation and physical copies needed very often], particularly if you have a mobile lifestyle. If I could do it all over again I would not have gone with Hong Kong.

I have not tried Indiegogo or Kickstarter so I can't really comment on those. I can really only say that the types of products/ventures I've seen built on there have been physical products. If you were building a web platform and market for, say, physical therapists and athletes (or something with clients on one end and service providers on the other) I don't know who would throw their cash in to purchase. I think that these crowdfunding platforms work extraordinarily well for certain types of businesses, particularly if you are manufacturing and plan to go the e-commerce route.

However, some high growth tech startups are not necessarily initially product oriented and need months or years to get off the ground. For these types of companies, venture capital would be a better option. How would snapchat, facebook, or google been built with a crowdfunding platform? These are companies that did not make a single penny of revenue for years. Even snapchat has still not moved a single cent of revenue, yet they are being offered billions.

Alternatively, Apple probably could have been crowdfunded on indiegogo in the very beginning. Their first computer customers were from the Homebrew Club for computer hobbyists. I think 50 people bought Woz's prototypes that started getting built in a bay area garage.

My point is that your ideal funding situation depends on what you plan to build. I know this from experience because I bootstrapped a HK company and we raised capital for a SG company.

What's certainly true is that the people I know who have seemed to succeed with kickstarter have done it very fast and raised 100K+ for their business. The next step was that they had to execute on making however many products that was for however many people ordered. They had to get them built in China and then shipped around the world, mostly Anglo countries.

I have not seen a kickstarter campaign outside this context yet. It doesn't mean that it does not exist, I just have not seen it yet.

That's just my two cents. I could be 100% absolutely wrong because I have not used crowdfunding platforms myself yet - whereas I can speak with a stronger level of confidence regarding setting up HK and SG corps and raising capital (or going the bootstrapping route).

I think that you are missing the point of what I wrote about earlier.

I really don't want to get into an argument about the pros/cons of SG/HK for incorporation or the pros/cons of PR/citizenship in Singapore vs Paraguay.
12-08-2013 03:34 AM
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orko Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
Well i dont need a paraguayan citizenship, because i have a citizenship from Uruguay, a much more stable country both in terms of economics and social equality than Paraguay, better placed geographically between the monsters of Argentina and Brazil and with a better global "reputation" around the world. In the last years the number of resident permits for foreigners to live in Uruguay has increased like 100%....
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2013 06:22 AM by orko.)
12-08-2013 06:21 AM
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thadude Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
buy silver, and real estate
12-09-2013 12:07 AM
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roid Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
(12-08-2013 03:34 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  I own a HK corp that I set up in 2012 so I have experience with both SG and HK in this context.

While it's true that it is cheaper to set up in HK are downsides in the longer run. The extra paperwork and auditing necessary is a distraction and nuisance [original documentation and physical copies needed very often], particularly if you have a mobile lifestyle. If I could do it all over again I would not have gone with Hong Kong.

I have not tried Indiegogo or Kickstarter so I can't really comment on those. I can really only say that the types of products/ventures I've seen built on there have been physical products. If you were building a web platform and market for, say, physical therapists and athletes (or something with clients on one end and service providers on the other) I don't know who would throw their cash in to purchase. I think that these crowdfunding platforms work extraordinarily well for certain types of businesses, particularly if you are manufacturing and plan to go the e-commerce route.

However, some high growth tech startups are not necessarily initially product oriented and need months or years to get off the ground. For these types of companies, venture capital would be a better option. How would snapchat, facebook, or google been built with a crowdfunding platform? These are companies that did not make a single penny of revenue for years. Even snapchat has still not moved a single cent of revenue, yet they are being offered billions.

Alternatively, Apple probably could have been crowdfunded on indiegogo in the very beginning. Their first computer customers were from the Homebrew Club for computer hobbyists. I think 50 people bought Woz's prototypes that started getting built in a bay area garage.

My point is that your ideal funding situation depends on what you plan to build. I know this from experience because I bootstrapped a HK company and we raised capital for a SG company.

What's certainly true is that the people I know who have seemed to succeed with kickstarter have done it very fast and raised 100K+ for their business. The next step was that they had to execute on making however many products that was for however many people ordered. They had to get them built in China and then shipped around the world, mostly Anglo countries.

I have not seen a kickstarter campaign outside this context yet. It doesn't mean that it does not exist, I just have not seen it yet.

That's just my two cents. I could be 100% absolutely wrong because I have not used crowdfunding platforms myself yet - whereas I can speak with a stronger level of confidence regarding setting up HK and SG corps and raising capital (or going the bootstrapping route).

I think that you are missing the point of what I wrote about earlier.

I really don't want to get into an argument about the pros/cons of SG/HK for incorporation or the pros/cons of PR/citizenship in Singapore vs Paraguay.

YMG is right on. The amount of paperwork for HK corp is not worth it.
12-09-2013 11:40 AM
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Woolf Offline
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Posts: 62
Joined: Apr 2013
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Post: #35
RE: Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
If You go for investing, do this...

Find something where You believe in and other people don´t. This way You make sure that You either learn and the truth comes out or that you become rich - in both cases You win.

Saving 3k$/months takes nearly forever to get some solid money coming in from old-school investments. Try more to gamble. Forget all investment advice. It´s not a big deal, if you put all your savings on a gamble/bet.

Buy only things where You play against stupid people. Don´t buy 1 BN$+ companies or gold or anything like that. You cannot outplay other people here. If You live in a small town, You often get a 500k$ house for half the price, but if You are looking for that in balanced markets like Manhatten, you won´t find anything like that.
12-13-2013 05:13 PM
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WestCoast Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Saving 3K monthly - What to do with it?
^ lol at this post.

Can't take anyone seriously who doesn't realize the $ sign always appears on the left.

This is a common sign of mediocrity/poverty. I don't even have to read your posts to know I am right.

All those shitty billion dollar investments like google's IPO. What dumbasses for buying that security.

Here's some investment advice, don't give investment advice if you are a broke ass. You'll make more money if people trust you don't spout out bullshit based on zero life experience.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2013 07:08 PM by WestCoast.)
12-13-2013 07:05 PM
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