Read The Forum Rules: We have a clear set of rules to keep the forum running smoothly. Click here to review them.

Post Reply 
Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
Author Message
Doctor Offline
Robin
*

Posts: 213
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 2
Post: #1
Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
Has anyone else read this book?

The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve by G. Edward Griffin.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Creature-Jekyl...yll+island

I picked it up at B&N the other day as Amazon has been out of stock for a while (I think B&N.com has it in stock). I remember that someone recommended it to me years ago and I finally picked it up since I'm currently on an economics book trend. I'm about half way through and it is absolutely fascinating. It is about the creation of the Federal Reserve and the institution of money, banking, and finance, etc. It is sort of part history part conspiracy theory. I liken it to reading something like Griftopia prior to the financial crisis. I don't know enough about the inner working of banks, the Fed Reserve, and the IMF to give an approval of 100% factual, but the author presents complex information simply and seems to provide ample sources. This isn't a proper review and I haven't gone into that much detail, I highly recommend it as of this point.
01-06-2014 10:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Doctor's post:
Giovonny
Luvianka Offline
Kingfisher
***
Silver Member

Posts: 987
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 25
Post: #2
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
I did. Very well researched and explained. Let me recommend you another one: 'The Web of Debt' by Ellen Hodgson Brown.

With God's help, I'll conquer this terrible affliction.

By way of deception, thou shalt game women.

Diaboli virtus in lumbar est -The Devil's virtue is in his loins.
01-06-2014 10:12 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Luvianka's post:
vinman
Doctor Offline
Robin
*

Posts: 213
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 2
Post: #3
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
(01-06-2014 10:12 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  I did. Very well researched and explained. Let me recommend you another one: 'The Web of Debt' by Ellen Hodgson Brown.

Put on the wish list. It'll be in my next order. Thanks.
01-06-2014 10:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
vinman Offline
Hummingbird
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 3,371
Joined: Dec 2010
Reputation: 68
Post: #4
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
Also check out Wall Street, Banks, and American Foreign Policy by Murray Rothbard.

Quote:This fiery monograph shows a side of Murray Rothbard not seen in his theoretical treatise: his ability to employ "power elite" analysis to understand the relationship between money, power, and war.

Rather than allow the left to dominate this approach to history; Rothbard shows how wealthy elites are only able to manipulate world affairs via their connection to state power. Those mainstream historians might deride Rothbard's history as a "conspiracy" approach, Rothbard himself is only out to show that world affairs are not random historical forces but the consequence of choices and paths chosen by real human beings.

Here he gives the grim details of how a network of banks, bond dealers, and Wall Street insiders have both favored war and profited from it.

The contents of this volume include a long and thoughtful introduction by Anthony Gregory and an afterword by Justin Raimondo.

Here's a link to a free PDF.
http://mises.org/document/1223

"Feminism is a trade union for ugly women"- Peregrine
01-07-2014 01:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
cardguy Offline
Banned

Posts: 4,481
Joined: Nov 2012
Post: #5
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
I became interested in this area awhile ago after seeing the Zeitgeist documentary.

I did some looking around on Google - and came across an article debunking most of the major conspiracies/allegations in documentaries like that one. And in books like the ones mentioned above.

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaher...serve.html

I am not qualified to say who is right here. But it is interesting seeing an article which tries to demolish alot of these stories.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2014 03:25 AM by cardguy.)
01-07-2014 03:23 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Mon Offline
Banned

Posts: 189
Joined: Sep 2012
Post: #6
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
Excellent book.
Also, make sure to check out Secrets of the Temple: How the Federal Reserve Runs the Country by William Greider
01-11-2014 10:15 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Mon's post:
vinman
K Galt Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 385
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 13
Post: #7
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
For anyone interested, here's a link to a free pdf download of this excellent book:

http://www.thevenusproject.com/downloads...riffin.pdf
01-13-2014 06:37 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
kosko Offline
Peacock
******
Gold Member

Posts: 6,840
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 146
Post: #8
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
(01-07-2014 03:23 AM)cardguy Wrote:  I became interested in this area awhile ago after seeing the Zeitgeist documentary.

I did some looking around on Google - and came across an article debunking most of the major conspiracies/allegations in documentaries like that one. And in books like the ones mentioned above.

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaher...serve.html

I am not qualified to say who is right here. But it is interesting seeing an article which tries to demolish alot of these stories.

The public realm of the FED exists at the Board of Governors level based out if DC. That is about as open as FED gets. The real system board is based out of the flagship branch in New York. Those records are private and nobody knows anything on what happens inside the NY central branch but it essentially controls the system and extended influences to all other branches and exists a outside and above the control of the DC BoG.

The Fed has only been audited once by the GAO (the DC books of course) in 2011 and relived $16 trillion in bailouts that were attempted tone kept off he books from public eyes. The GAO does all lot of systematic checks and performance checks but it has rarely fever done pure adults on the books.

The BoG is and has always been the smoke screen for the Fed. It moves around the DC system and has open doors but a thing beyond then (New York) is a shut door you can't access. The BoG is advices by the Branches... Whom work for their Private shareholders... The branches execute control by being able to shape and lobby the Open Market Committee... This is there illusion of the area where US Monterrey policy is crafted and discussed but it's just a lobby vessel in which the Branches use influence to get policy in their favor.

Folks who try to discredit the fact that the FED is nothing more then a machine for fraud and transferring wealth are misguided.
01-14-2014 12:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like kosko's post:
vinman, Tail Gunner, durangotang
cardguy Offline
Banned

Posts: 4,481
Joined: Nov 2012
Post: #9
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
Interesting response.

By the way - why do you think mainstream economists don't talk about this? I don't believe it is because they are scared - maybe it is because they don't know much about it and information is hard to come by?
01-14-2014 04:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
K Galt Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 385
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 13
Post: #10
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
That answer is easy enough... Why Economists Love the Fed

First, they control the textbooks for economics curriculum.

Quote:One of the difficulties that critics of central banking have, all over the world, is that academic economists are almost universally supportive of central banking.

To understand why this is the case, we must understand the economics of banking as an aspect of the economics of cartels.

All modern banking systems are based on government licensing and regulation.
All licensing and regulation systems create barriers to entry.
All government-created barriers to entry create cartels.
All central banks are enforcement agents of the national banking cartel.

No chapter on central banking in any introductory or upper division economics textbook published by a mainstream publisher discusses central banking in this light. The chapter on central banking is kept several chapters away from the chapter on money and banking. The two chapters are not cross-referenced.

This has gone on ever since the end of World War II. It may have gone on before, but the textbooks of that era are difficult to locate. University libraries throw out old textbooks. This makes it difficult for historians of thought in any field to write histories of college-level opinion.

Then they provide a shitload of money to distort the market for the economist profession, thereby ensuring if anyone who graduates with a degree in economics wants meaningful, well-paid employment, they WILL shill for central banking/the Fed.

Quote:In 1993, we are informed, Greenspan informed the House Banking Committee that 189 economists worked for the Board of Governors (a government operation) and 171 worked for the 12 regional Federal Reserve banks (privately owned). Then there were 703 support staff and statisticians. These came from the ranks of economists.

This was only part of the story: the proverbial tip of the iceberg. From 1991 to 1994, the FED handed out $3 million to over 200 professors to conduct research.

This is still going on. There has been growth. The Board of Governors now employs 220 Ph.D.-level economists. But the real growth has been in contracts.

Fed spokeswoman says that exact figures for the number of economists contracted with weren't available. But, she says, the Federal Reserve spent $389.2 million in 2008 on "monetary and economic policy," money spent on analysis, research, data gathering, and studies on market structure; $433 million is budgeted for 2009.

That is a great deal of money. This amount of money, the author implies, is sufficient to buy silence. He adds that there are fewer than 500 Ph.D.-level members of the American Economic Association whose specialty is either money and interest rates or public finance. In the private sector, about 600 are part of the National Association of Business Economists' Financial Roundtable.

If you count existing economists on the payroll, past economists on the payroll, economists receiving grants, and those who want in on the deal, "you've accounted for a very significant majority of the field."

In addition, the FED has editors of the academic journals on its payroll or grants list.

"It's very important, if you are tenure track and don't have tenure, to show that you are valued by the Federal Reserve," says Jane D'Arista, a Fed critic and an economist with the Political Economy Research Institute at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst.
01-14-2014 06:43 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like K Galt's post:
vinman, Tail Gunner, kosko
Tail Gunner Offline
Hummingbird
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 3,016
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 50
Post: #11
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
(01-14-2014 04:48 PM)cardguy Wrote:  By the way - why do you think mainstream economists don't talk about this? I don't believe it is because they are scared - maybe it is because they don't know much about it and information is hard to come by?

Most mainstream economists are not really economists. They are modern versions of mystics and witch doctors.

The book that I always recommend for understanding basic economics is "How an Economy Grows and Why It Crashes," by Peter Schiff.

He just released a third edition of that book less than a month ago. Read the reviews from the second edition.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Economy-Grows-...It+Crashes

Quote: This short, easy read is a work of genius, illustrating economic concepts using a simple island economy of three people — Able, Baker, and Charlie — dependent upon their livelihood by fishing with their hands. The authors explain how the three improve their lives by creating “capital” (fishing nets and other technology) through risk-taking investment, under-consumption, and savings. The economic basics are outlined in the first 90 pages of this book, including money (“fish” on the island economy), inflation, and banking. The subject matter is covered almost in comic-book style.

The second part of the book attacks Keynesian “controlled economy” economic fallacies that politicians have pushed since the New Deal, employing fishy/nautical names for historical figures who took part in development or government destruction of the island economy such as Franky Deep (Franklin Delano Roosevelt), Buddy Goldfin (Barry Goldwater), and Ally Greenfin (Alan Greenspan). Peter Schiff even makes a cameo in the mythical island fish world as “Piker Skiff,” an accurate economist who’s laughed at on talk shows by conventional political operators. This matches the real world, as Peter Schiff was indeed laughed at on numerous talk shows in 2006 and 2007 for accurately predicting the current “Great Recession” and explaining in detail why and how it would happen.

The genius of this book is that even a middle-school economics student could understand the basic concepts outlined in this book. As a teacher of high-school students, I can testify that this book could be understood by even the most basic of my students. It would make an excellent textbook for an “Introduction to Economics” course in any high school or middle school.

While children should be able to understand the concepts outlined in this book, adults desperately need to understand these concepts as well. But most don’t. This book could be an easy cure for economic ignorance, as most adults could absorb it in a few hours.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/bo...s-in-print


Another excellent book on economics:

"Economics in One Lesson: The Shortest and Surest Way to Understand Basic Economics," by Henry Hazlitt

http://www.amazon.com/Economics-One-Less...+Economics


If you understand that a government should budget its revenue no differently than the average family and that it should only go into debt or debase its currency under extraordinary circumstances (e.g., necessary wars, natural disasters, etc.) then you understand basic economics and the proper function of money. You can then extrapolate how different factors should effect a normal well-adjusted economy.

The problem that we face today is that the world economies are not normal or well-adjusted, because of so much government intervention in the economy.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2014 12:05 AM by Tail Gunner.)
01-15-2014 12:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Tail Gunner's post:
vinman, kosko
cardguy Offline
Banned

Posts: 4,481
Joined: Nov 2012
Post: #12
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
But what about when an economics professor achieves tenure? At that point they would be free to say what they want without any adverse effect on their career.

I find it hard to believe everyone in economics is a shill for 'the system'.

Cardguy

PS I am a huge sceptic when it comes to economists as well. I think economics today is where chemistry was 500 years ago. Back when it was called alchemy, and the biggest goal was the search for the Philosopher's Stone so that they could turn lead into gold.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2014 01:37 PM by cardguy.)
01-15-2014 01:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
cardguy Offline
Banned

Posts: 4,481
Joined: Nov 2012
Post: #13
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
Also - we should all remember not to be too dogmatic in any disagreements over economics.

Why?

Because if there was a simple sure-fire way of achieving economic growth which would benefit the majority of people - then every major government in the world would be crawling over each other in order to try and enact it.

If there was an easy answer which worked - everybody would already be doing it. They would be crazy not to.

The sad thing about studying economics is that the questions are the same each year. It is just the answers which change.
01-15-2014 01:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Tail Gunner Offline
Hummingbird
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 3,016
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 50
Post: #14
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
(01-15-2014 01:41 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Also - we should all remember not to be too dogmatic in any disagreements over economics.

Why?

Because if there was a simple sure-fire way of achieving economic growth which would benefit the majority of people - then every major government in the world would be crawling over each other in order to try and enact it.

If there was an easy answer which worked - everybody would already be doing it. They would be crazy not to.

The sad thing about studying economics is that the questions are the same each year. It is just the answers which change.

I disagree. Economics is about what best benefits the ruling class, i.e., control over the masses. The banking system benefits the elite.

Most political issues have easy political questions, but it is usually all about power and control -- just as it is in economics.

In both economics and politics it is always about money -- except when it is about power and control.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2014 06:45 PM by Tail Gunner.)
01-15-2014 06:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Tail Gunner's post:
Scuba_Instructor
shanefalco Offline
Pigeon

Posts: 22
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 1
Post: #15
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
(01-15-2014 01:34 PM)cardguy Wrote:  But what about when an economics professor achieves tenure? At that point they would be free to say what they want without any adverse effect on their career.

I find it hard to believe everyone in economics is a shill for 'the system'.

A good book to read is the "Corruption of Economics" by Mason Gaffney (can be found free here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/janusg/coe/!index.htm). It describes the history of economics from a Georgist perspective. Regarding that philosophy, I've became a bigger fan once I read some other Georgist books (found at the link I just posted), along with the some of the other books by Gaffney (found for free on his website/blog) and also the book "Libertarian Party at Sea on Land by Harold Kyriazi.

The Austrian school makes some good points as well, and I enjoy a lot of those writers.

However, for a while, I didn't understand why the Austrians dislike the Georgist philosophy so much. It wasn't until I found out that some of the same "founding" families of the Federal Reserve (mentioned in the Jekyll Island book) are the same benefactors that sponsored the Austrian movement (see Mises' biography by Rothbard and another one online at http://mises.org/page/1468/Biography-of-...18811973). I wonder if this support is the reason for the hostility.
01-15-2014 08:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes shanefalco's post:
cardguy
j r Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 2,072
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 23
Post: #16
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
Here is the alternate take on these issues.

I am pretty familiar with these institutions. I work for a related institution and I regularly interact with people from the Fed, the IMF, the World Bank, etc. The idea that there is some secret cabal behind the scenes secretly pulling the strings is just absurd. Yes, the guys who designed the Federal Reserve system met in secret. So what? People meet in private all the time to make plans. They still had to go public with their plans and get it passed through Congress. The Federal Reserve Act is a public document. You can read exactly what it says.

Everyone thinks that their favorite economic theory is the one true way. It doesn't work that way. Economics isn't hard science, so you can't definitively prove anything. As someone who does econ for a living, what I say is that you can be somewhat ideological in your outlook, but at the end of the day many of the issues are technical and situational. For instance, at almost any other time I'd be in favor of relatively tight money and a bit of an inflation hawk. Right now, however, I support looser monetary policy, because that's what the economy needs in times of severe recession. This was one of the major insights of Milton Friedman's Monetary History of the United States.

As for the argument that the current financial system is run for the elites, you can say that about any system. The education system, the criminal justice system, the transportation system, you name it and the rich get it better than everybody else. That's just the nature of the world. There is no alternate financial system that the rich can't find a way to thrive under. You could abolish the Fed tomorrow and move to a system of free banking and guess what? Some people would find a way to make that system work for them. That's how people get rich in the first place.

Now, this system is far from perfect and there is a lot that I would change. Personally, I blame the government much more than I blame the Federal Reserve System. It's the government that spends more than it can pay for or responsibly finance. It's the government that lets the banks capture the financial system. It's the government that issues debt.

Considering all the shitty fiscal policy that the United States has had to suffer through. I'd say the Fed is doing a pretty good job.
01-15-2014 11:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
cardguy Offline
Banned

Posts: 4,481
Joined: Nov 2012
Post: #17
RE: Book: The Creature from Jekyll Island
(01-15-2014 08:06 PM)shanefalco Wrote:  
(01-15-2014 01:34 PM)cardguy Wrote:  But what about when an economics professor achieves tenure? At that point they would be free to say what they want without any adverse effect on their career.

I find it hard to believe everyone in economics is a shill for 'the system'.

A good book to read is the "Corruption of Economics" by Mason Gaffney (can be found free here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/janusg/coe/!index.htm). It describes the history of economics from a Georgist perspective. Regarding that philosophy, I've became a bigger fan once I read some other Georgist books (found at the link I just posted), along with the some of the other books by Gaffney (found for free on his website/blog) and also the book "Libertarian Party at Sea on Land by Harold Kyriazi.

The Austrian school makes some good points as well, and I enjoy a lot of those writers.

However, for a while, I didn't understand why the Austrians dislike the Georgist philosophy so much. It wasn't until I found out that some of the same "founding" families of the Federal Reserve (mentioned in the Jekyll Island book) are the same benefactors that sponsored the Austrian movement (see Mises' biography by Rothbard and another one online at http://mises.org/page/1468/Biography-of-...18811973). I wonder if this support is the reason for the hostility.

Wow - thanks for the tip! I have always been interested in long forgotten economists and their theories. And have never heard of Henry George until now. One of the reasons I am interested in these forgotten people is because I often wonder if there is some hidden ploticial reason why their ideas have been buried.

Another forgotten economic thinker I found out about recently was CH Douglas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._H._Douglas

Anyway - I am really interested in the Land Value Tax that Henry George proposed. And I am surprised I have not heard of him until now.

Some of the quotes about his work are pretty impressive:

Quote:"People do not argue with the teaching of George, they simply do not know it. And it is impossible to do otherwise with his teaching, for he who becomes acquainted with it cannot but agree." Leo Tolstoy

"Men like Henry George are rare, unfortunately. One cannot imagine a more beautiful combination of intellectual keenness, artistic form, and fervent love of justice." Albert Einstein

"If I were to re-write this book [Brave New World], I would offer a third alternative - the possibility of sanity - Economics would be decentralist and Henry Georgian." Aldous Huxley

"The least bad tax is the property tax on the unimproved value of land, the Henry George argument of many, many years ago." Milton Friedman

"The reactions of four generations of economists to Progress and Poverty... is one of persistent misunderstanding, misrepresentation and downright evasion of the issues by leading members of the economics profession." Mark Blaug

And to add to the above. George Bernard Shaw and Winston Chuchill were fans of his work as well.

Another interesting fact is that his work was the inspiration for the boardgame 'Monopoly' - which was originally intended as a satire to be used to explain the concept of monopoly.

Quote:The history of Monopoly can be traced back to 1903, when an American woman named Elizabeth (Lizzie) J. Magie Phillips created a game through which she hoped to be able to explain the single tax theory of Henry George (it was intended as an educational tool to illustrate the negative aspects of concentrating land in private monopolies).

Her game, The Landlord's Game, was self-published, beginning in 1906. A series of variant board games based on her concept were developed from 1906 through the 1930s that involved the buying and selling of land and the development of that land.

Thanks once again for the pointer. I am off to research his work in detail since I am currently interested in the issues surrounding economics, rent, taxation and land ownership.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2014 07:38 PM by cardguy.)
01-16-2014 07:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like cardguy's post:
vinman, kosko, Tail Gunner
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication