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Shenzhen Data Sheet
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Post: #151
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Cross into HK and download a VPN service. Its one of the costs of living in China. You can use your VPN and then access gmail and other google services, youtube, netflix (if you have an account and set your vpn to mirror the USA server), etc. Try to figure out which one is working best at the moment, and I'd pay a little more (i.e. 15 vs. 10 per month) as it will save you hours of connection time and down time.

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Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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06-10-2015 11:26 PM
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Post: #152
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
(06-09-2015 06:29 PM)Fortis Wrote:  The land lady wants this police thing ONLY because I want the fa piao. It's like, "c'mon lady. I'm putting money in your pocket. I can't even get into this country without going through both my and your government. Relax!" But all she sees is a foreigner, so it's a big deal.

Ya, she's fucking with you. Acquiring the fa piao will force her to report the income on the apartment, which is pissing her off. So she's going to try to make you as miserable as possible as a result.

Hope you didn't sign to long of a lease. This landlord sounds like she's going to be a pain in the ass.

I've learned that having the right landlord here in China is a massive advantage. The wrong landlord or the wrong roommates can really ruin your life.

I'm the King of Beijing!
06-11-2015 12:12 AM
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Post: #153
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
I signed for a year and I'm really beginning to regret it. I felt pressured by job to get an apartment So they could finish the visa process.

I spent today driving around with the agent that ge's girl connected me with. It took 2 hours and nothing, literally nothing pertaining to my apartment, was accomplished. Even he seemed clueless when it came to this police thing the landlady wants.

I may have bitten off more than I could chew this time. I just really want to be done with this apartment stuff. I have spent at least 20 hours checking out apartments. I was quite frustrated by all of this today. But on a brighter note yesterday marked my first full week in china.
06-11-2015 04:04 AM
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Post: #154
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Hang in there - there is much, as Suits could relay, that is frustrating about living in China. Anything requiring government authorization seems to take more than visit and a lot of waiting. Hang in there, it will eventually get done and then you'll be able to focus on other things. The apartment situation is one of the most arduous things about locating there - every foreigner seems to struggle with it, except those who move in with roommates that already have a place.

It will pass.

Happy one week anniversary.

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Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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06-11-2015 12:54 PM
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Post: #155
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
No experience like this in China, but also want to chime in to stay strong Fortis. You will get through this.
06-11-2015 01:21 PM
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Post: #156
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Thanks guys. I'm feeling better. I went out with my co-workers and had some drinks. They're a good group of people. Learned a lot about them last night.

Today is my other day off, so I'm going to just chill out. I'm not doing ANYTHING related to my apartment today. Going to look into some mandarin resources, read and maybe go out with friends at some other point.

Going to post some musings and observations about Shenzhen later. Lots of great things here that might be worth talking about.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2015 11:22 PM by Fortis.)
06-11-2015 11:21 PM
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Post: #157
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
(06-11-2015 12:54 PM)Global Entry Wrote:  Hang in there - there is much, as Suits could relay, that is frustrating about living in China. Anything requiring government authorization seems to take more than visit and a lot of waiting.

....

The apartment situation is one of the most arduous things about locating there - every foreigner seems to struggle with it, except those who move in with roommates that already have a place.

Yes and no.

There's a whole lot of data you accumulate in your head over the years in China. When you're in a situation like apartment hunting, this data helps you avoid time wasting experiences.

It's all anecdotal information lumped together in your brain, not something that you can really share with others in a way that would help them much, but in your own head, it makes life so much easier.

That, and, speaking the Hua. You speak Mandarin, somehow everything just gets 2000% easier and more efficient. It isn't always directly because you can speak the language, but I think that confidence of knowing that you can speak the language if you need to gives you the balls to not put yourself through hell, unnecessarily.



When I moved back to China a year ago May, an employee of my employing agent spent a day with me, during which I accept a position at a school AND went apartment hunting.

We went to some housing agencies. A person at the first one said that the person who had access to all the keys (to view apartments) was out, but she'd be back soon. 30 minutes later, she still wasn't there.

The girl that was helping me was content to just sit there mindlessly, but I said, there are 3 other agency offices on this street that I can see from here. Let's go there and see if they don't waste our time.

She agreed and the next place was MUCH more efficient and helpful.

I looked at a bunch of places, most which didn't fit the specifics I had told them I was looking for, but one really did.

When I saw it, I knew it was the place to live.

Signed a lease that day.



When I had to relocate across Beijing for a new job 6 months later, I dedicated several days to looking.

The first two agents I met off the Internet spoke no English, but was helpful, but I only looked at places with roommates already living there and none of the people seemed like a good fit.

Then I decided to find a small place just for me with no roommates.
Met one agent and she kept saying things that seemed fishy. She eventually asked for a full one month deposit for an apartment that I was going to sign a contract for only two hours later.

Despite claiming that she worked for the apartment complex itself, she had no ID, no access card and wouldn't show me her office, so I booked it and didn't look back.

Incidentally, she spoke excellent English, a fact that actually makes me more suspicious. There isn't a lot of money in being a housing agent, which is why a lot of poorly educated people with very few options do this for a living. If someone has excellent English, you gotta ask why they are doing this job. There's a good chance it's a
scam or they are more dishonest than your average agent.

The next guy spoke no English, but was helpful and showed me several places that were all within what I was asking for.

I selected one and signed a contract quickly.

My landlord was a bit of a dick, because he asked me to move out 4 months later to make room for a relative who was returning to Beijing.

I think he was just looking to raise the rent, but my income was much higher at this point and I wanted a better place, so it was reasonably convenient.

I looked at just two places before making a choice. The first was way overpriced and the agent spoke excellent English and was super shady.

The second was equally expensive, but three times as big as the first place I looked at. The agent spoke English, but really preferred to speak Chinese, as she wasn't very comfortable in English.

I made a decision after a few days. I wanted to see other places, but other agents weren't responding, so I decided to just go for it.




In every case, I probably could have wasted a lot more time if I didn't speak Chinese and didn't know what I was doing, but experience was super helpful. And I've gotten more efficient every time I've moved.

For example, most agents will put up ads for apartments, but in fact, the apartment pictured isn't actually available any more. They just want your contact info so that they can show you the places that they do have available.

The last time I moved, I responded to an ad that was for a specific apartment, as stated in the ad itself ("real pictures," it said).

This allowed me to view an apartment that I already knew the price of, the appearance of and had some general information on.

Definitely better than having an agent randomly take you from apartment to apartment, because they usual show you stuff you've already said you don't want.

"You need a one bedroom apartment? How about a three bedroom instead?"

"You want a place with a big kitchen? How about a place with a big bathroom and no kitchen?"


It's definitely tough when you start out, but there is a silver lining, because when you do get good at China, it's a huge rush to be awesome at living and surviving in a place where most people don't have what it takes.

Just stay the course, cultivate some hobbies and a satisfying social life, set realistic goals so that you aren't wasting your time, and learn some fricken Chinese.

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06-11-2015 11:58 PM
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Post: #158
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Meeting up with hubei girl tonight. I'll let you know how this goes. Not expecting much given the logistics of the situation. She lives near my job, but my job is a thirty minute metro ride from home, so the logistics aren't perfect. But I am interested in sitting down with a girl and seeing how things are similar and different on a Chinese date.
06-12-2015 06:42 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Had my first day of work today. It wasn't a real day of work, but I got to hang around my center and talk to the students. I had a lot of great conversations and introductions to my students. They all think I will be a great teacher because I am friendly and interested in learning about Chinese culture and languages. My students told me that they enjoy it when a teacher is willing to sit down and converse with them as I did. Maybe of them have signed 4-5 year contracts where they come in two days a week and just study for 8 hours a day! Pretty intense. I have to say, my respect for those people has increased a lot. Try to get the average american to sit down and really focus on a language for 16 hours a week on top of a full-time job and family. Ha.

I am pretty sure I added at least 15 new people to my wechat today. My students let loose with a lot of great advice for me when it comes to surviving in Shenzhen. They told me that I will definitely deal with a lot of frustration as a foreign man and that many Chinese people are xenophobic and mistrustful of outsiders, but they also told me that keeping a positive attitude and open mind will make my transition into Chinese society easier. I take this advice seriously because the average age of my students seems to be 28+. They're not kids; many of them are engineers, software developers and other respectable professions. So I was all ears.

Date with Hubei girl:

We were supposed to meet up at a bar near my job, but the bar was closed randomly on a saturday. I walked in and saw a bunch of dudes sitting at a table playing cards. They looked up and had confused/pissed looks on their faces. I decided I better fuck off or risk a beatdown. Ah well, shit happens.

About 10 minutes later Hubei girl shows up. She's average looking to slightly below average looking due to a sprinkling of acne on her face and super short, like 4'11 would be a generous assessment of her height. Her petite figure definitely went far in my book. I like my women thin and small. Height Doesn't really matter to me. Her english is decent.

I tell her that the bar is closed. She suggests another part of the city for a few drinks. We take a taxi ride over to coastal city. I can tell it is an expensive area. We each get a drink and it's 55 yuan each. Fuck. We each have a drink and I suggest bouncing. We get down near the metro station. I ask her to hang out some more tonight. She seems keen on the idea, but doesn't like the 30 minute commute back to my place. I ask her about her place, but she has a roommate. She says she wants to hang out on my next day off, but tonight just isn't good. Not that big of a deal to me. I go for a hug and try to make out. She smiles and says, "sorry, but it is just weird!" Face. I forgot about face. We are standing in a slightly crowded area on a saturday night. Of course she's going to feel weird about kissing me there. Ha.

I won't lie. I was a little frustrated, but one thing I did like was that I didn't have to constantly entertain her on the date. She asked me a lot of questions and seemed interested in getting to know about me. She had a decent sense of humor and understood and laughed at a lot of my stupid jokes. She really perked up when she learned about my music taste. She is quite into nirvana. I told her to check out alice in chains. Not a bad girl at all. Wouldn't want to spend too much time with her unless she's putting out, but I didn't walk away from that feeling like I was dealing with a vapid idiot. I may hit her up to hang once I move into my new place. I imagine I could secure a bang and my first chinese flag this way.

She texted me:

"I just had drinks with an american Smile"

Not really sure what it entails, but I get the feeling that dating is different here.



----

Quick add-on:

I spoke to my director about language courses and things like that. He said he was actually in the middle of converting some of our full-time chinese staffers into language teachers for the teachers. The Chinese staff at my center is primarily hot Chinese girls and some pretty cool Chinese guys. I would definitely take a class taught by these people. They have all expressed interest in helping me learn some mandarin because they all agree it makes life in China easier. It will probably be a little ways off for me becuase I'm still working through this apartment stuff, but I am glad that my co-workers are so keen on helping me out as I try to learn Mandarin. Admittedly, I feel a little overwhelmed by the language and have no clue where to start with it. I've been picking up little bits of it in my day to day life, but not nearly enough to not look completely retarded to the average chinese person.

I took the metro to meet up with hubei girl and rode with my chinese co-worker. He's a good guy. He gave me the low-down on the center's policies with women because he told me that a lot of the female students have been asking whether I am married or have a girlfriend. As Global Entry correctly surmised, it is not a written rule, but it is a rule that teachers and students shouldn't be in relationships of any sort other than professional ones. I figured this was the case, but I am glad he thought it prudent to tell me of his own accord. He also told me that there is not a rule against hooking up with co-workers, though. It was funny that he mentioned any of this because I have no mentioned women to him once. I only talk about women when someone else brings them up. This particular co-worker is in his thirties and has kids and everything. I find it so interesting that the Chinese marry young and start families immediately. It almost reminds me of 1940s America in that regard: the family unit is still alive and kicking in China. I am pleased by that.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2015 10:38 AM by Fortis.)
06-13-2015 10:15 AM
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Post: #160
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
The apartment stuff is pretty much ironed out. I just pay and move in on wednesday. My boss is giving me the day off, so I have a lot of free time this week: Wednesday, thursday and friday are off, and there is the Dragon Boat festival as well, so I have a total of 4 days off. I'm going to use this time to explore my neighbor and acclimate myself further to Shenzhen.

I have spent a lot of time the past 3 days getting the know students and my boss and co-workers say this is time well spent--and I concur. I have had several male students offer to hang out and translate things for me when I am in need. I appreciate this because they really do not have to do it. I am also shocked by the level of respect teachers receive in China. Whenever I meet a female student they always act so impressed when I tell them that I am a new teacher from America. I can definitely see why many men come to this country. Students have been helping me with my mandarin.

I can now say a total of 7 things. They're all functional phrases, and I intend to learn more. My boss warned me that many expats get caught up in the party life and the women and reccomended that I find some positive outlets beyond fucking and drinking. He was not so crass as to say fucking and drinking, but I am certain that the aforementioned activities make up a large portion of many expats' days in China. I have been making sure to listen to my boss. He came to China when he was my age and has not left in over 10 years. He's something of permanently traveler and is an all around good guy.

I want to comment on a few good things I have noticed about Chinese women: They're very, very charming. It is really odd, but they're *gasp* feminine and rather easy-going. For some reason many of the asian women in the states are cliquish and quite cold at times. I'm shocked that the women of China are actually very extroverted and charming. I have several native female coworkers and they're all quite bubbly and feminine. You can tell that they're looking for husbands and try to look their best at all times. It's even a bit adorable. It is refreshing. I Know that sounds strange, but even though I am not banging any of them it is refreshing just to be around women who smile for no reason, dress nicely and are polite. There really is something to be said for a traditional society such as China's. Obviously, there are some negatives that come with this, but I can forgive those when the weather is nice and the women are as pretty as Chinese girls. As far as the guys go, I am REALLY surprised by how alpha some of these men are. Like, if I were to put many of these guys in a large american city they would probably do quite well. China really is a surprising country. Does it have its betas? No shit, but I would not want to brawl with many of the men here.

There is definitely a real sense of pride that the chinese have that I did not know about when I lived back in the states. I actually find it quite impressive. I like when people are proud of their heritage. It is an inspiring thing and is quite the contrast from the Anti-american sentiments many americans hold. Are their some negatives that come with Chinese pride? Absolutely. I occasionally get called gwai'lo (sp?) and laowei (sp?) by ignorant fuckers, but it is quite rare. Most of the men I talk to are quite interested in America and getting to know an american. I suppose it boils down to the concept of face. This concept keeps coming up, and I think I am SLOWLY beginning to see how it informs Chinese society and culture; however, I am a LONG way from being able to explain it well.

Edit:

Tan tan and tinder are picking up steam, but I am learning one thing: bitches think I hot in Taiwan. I get so many matches from girls I swiped on in taiwan. I really should visit sometime.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2015 11:51 AM by Fortis.)
06-15-2015 11:27 AM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Fortis, Laowai is not a pejorative term. It just means foreigner. You'll hear people say this often when they see a foreigner or talk about them - I wouldn't take any offense to it. The other term is considered pejorative.

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Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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06-15-2015 12:07 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Ah ok. I knew gwai'lo was bad. I thought lao'Wei was bad too. Learn something new everyday in China.
06-15-2015 12:10 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Awesome posts Fortis. Keep up the great reporting!
06-15-2015 02:32 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Enjoy reading your updates Fortis! Your reports are really making me having serious thoughts of relocating there too!

Keep'em coming!
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2015 07:54 PM by Vacancier Permanent.)
06-15-2015 07:23 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Thanks guys,

I would suggest visiting first before relocating anywhere. I hail mary'd this for the experience of it, but if you haven't been to sz or china I would poke around for a bit and see if it fits your profile. Heard the expat turn over rate in china is about 8 months. I haven't even made it 2 weeks yet so I am just taking it day by day. It can ve tough here but I am really enjoying meeting all these new people from all over china.
06-15-2015 07:28 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Yeah I hear you about checking it out first. It really can't be worst than being stuck at a dead end up in shit hole like say Toronto or DC. Can it?

China can be a fantastic opportunity for someone looking a new start or someone who's stuck in a dead end job or career in NA and building a much more fulfilling life and a striving career and biz. Chances of success would be higher than say in Canada or the US. I've seen and known way too many guys who have made the move to China from NA and went on to build striving businesses and very fun lifestyles in China.

I've been to China, albeit my stay there was a short one, but it was enough for me to see it with my own eyes that is is indeed possible to make a better life there than in here.

I'm long due for a return to the Middle Kingdom! Now it's just a matter of deciding where in China and how soon.
06-15-2015 07:59 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
(06-13-2015 10:15 AM)Fortis Wrote:  They have all expressed interest in helping me learn some mandarin because they all agree it makes life in China easier. It will probably be a little ways off for me becuase I'm still working through this apartment stuff, but I am glad that my co-workers are so keen on helping me out as I try to learn Mandarin. Admittedly, I feel a little overwhelmed by the language and have no clue where to start with it. I've been picking up little bits of it in my day to day life, but not nearly enough to not look completely retarded to the average chinese person.

Chinese is really not hard to learn, but it is very difficult to get over the initial challenges that confront new learners. This is why it is almost always a mistake for anyone who is serious about learning Chinese to start in China working, instead of starting off as a language student.

The initial learning curve is so steep that most people quite understandably give up and after a year of working, they've reached a level of complacency where they can't be bothered to actually take some time off to enrol in language school.

They've discovered by this point that they can have a low investment but comfortable existence in China. They didn't arrive planning on sacrificing their independence and masculinity by having Chinese women fix all their problems (language barrier related or otherwise), but they had to do so as a necessity initially and they've gotten comfortable with having the self-determination of an infant. Practice makes perfect.

If you want China to be something more than an extended vacation, you need to put serious time and effort into getting comfortable with the language.

This doesn't require a class. Look up the top 100 nouns, verbs and adjectives in English. Memorize all of these words in Chinese and then frequently (preferably daily) put yourself in positions where you need to speak the language.

If you go to Starbucks or McDonalds or anywhere else where you order food in a predictable service pattern, have a Chinese friend help figure out some basic situation vocabulary (Big Mac, Frappuccino, etc) and then make a point of order in 100% Chinese every time you visit (without pointing).

At first you'll stumble over it, but with repeated practice you'll gain skill and confidence and this will allow you to move into areas of language use that are less predictable.

Quote:I took the metro to meet up with hubei girl and rode with my chinese co-worker. He's a good guy. He gave me the low-down on the center's policies with women because he told me that a lot of the female students have been asking whether I am married or have a girlfriend. As Global Entry correctly surmised, it is not a written rule, but it is a rule that teachers and students shouldn't be in relationships of any sort other than professional ones. I figured this was the case, but I am glad he thought it prudent to tell me of his own accord. He also told me that there is not a rule against hooking up with co-workers, though. It was funny that he mentioned any of this because I have no mentioned women to him once.

This guy is a good fellow to have in your social circle. He knows the low down and is genuinely interested in seeing you succeed. Spend time with him. He clearly knows what information you need and he will help you in the future.

Quote:I find it so interesting that the Chinese marry young and start families immediately. It almost reminds me of 1940s America in that regard: the family unit is still alive and kicking in China. I am pleased by that.

China, as you've no doubt heard, is several countries living side-by-side. You've got the modernized (not that this is always a good thing) part of society. This comes complete with high educated career women who put of marriage until it's too late and then spend their 30's complaining to me that they really want to get married, but they just have had back luck.

Then you've got the less educated, less moneyed section of society where 20-23 year old girls seem to have absolutely no trouble locking down a man, marrying young and having a family well before their uterus commits suicide. You'll definitely see both in Shenzhen.

Unfortunate for men like us, because the women who are making the terrible choice of focusing on their careers are the ones that we have the most in common with as foreign men.

They do date in their 20's, but their expectations are so unrealistic that they just end up with a bunch of failed relationships and a history of poor choices.

The good news is that if you're having a dry spell, there are lots of damaged 30+ women who love cock and have the body of a 25 year old who will help you redevelop your sex life. It work for me all last winter.

The bad news is that if you're looking for wife material at any point, you might have to learn to be comfortable with a woman that believes all sort of ridiculous absurdities about traditional Chinese medicine.

(06-15-2015 11:27 AM)Fortis Wrote:  The apartment stuff is pretty much ironed out. I just pay and move in on wednesday. My boss is giving me the day off, so I have a lot of free time this week: Wednesday, thursday and friday are off, and there is the Dragon Boat festival as well, so I have a total of 4 days off. I'm going to use this time to explore my neighbor and acclimate myself further to Shenzhen.

Good plan.

Quote:I have spent a lot of time the past 3 days getting the know students and my boss and co-workers say this is time well spent--and I concur. I have had several male students offer to hang out and translate things for me when I am in need. I appreciate this because they really do not have to do it.

Be careful not to assume that these students are doing you any favours. They are paying a lot of money to have access to white teachers with American English and they are going to leverage their ability to help you to score more one-on-one time with you practicing English.

They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Don't refuse their offers of help, but be very careful in China about who you consider a friend. Nearly everyone is working an angle.

Quote:I can now say a total of 7 things. They're all functional phrases, and I intend to learn more.

Perfect, you should be learning things that you can and will use every day.

Quote:I suppose it boils down to the concept of face. This concept keeps coming up, and I think I am SLOWLY beginning to see how it informs Chinese society and culture; however, I am a LONG way from being able to explain it well.

There's no such thing as face in China. Despite what might appear to be alpha men, China is actually highly materialistic and feminized.

Women generally call the shots and men work their asses off but rarely make major family decisions.

If you read older travel journals from visitors to China 100-150 years ago, you'll notice that China has been this way for a long time.

The result of having a country devoid of masculinity is that absolutely no one has any emotional maturity.

Have you noticed how women in the West can't handle any criticism? Well, in China, absolutely no one has the emotional maturity to handle criticism.

This makes companies highly inefficient (because the boss cannot accept and never receives honest feedback) and it means that a lot of lying goes on.

Becoming a man means getting your ego under control and learning to improve on your weaknesses so that you don't have to routinely face criticism.

No one in China does this. There are no men here, which is why Chinese women often flock to Western men and do not want Chinese men after they've gotten a taste of Western men.

Don't take anyone serious if they use the word "face." The concept of "face" is just window dressing for the fact that the population of China is a bunch of overgrown children who don't function as adults.

Have you noticed how women in the West try to sell themselves as "mysterious" when they are just a bunch of children who can't control their biological programming?

Same goes for the concept of "face." It's just a fancy word for "we as a culture are incapable of dealing with even half a second of embarrassment because you've never grown up."

As far as people wanting foreign friends for "face" this is no different than buying an expensive car for status. It's not a Chinese thing. People all over the world want to achieve status. It just so happens than in China, having a white friend is a status symbol.

They aren't seriously interested in you as a person and there is no such thing as "face."

I'm the King of Beijing!
06-15-2015 10:33 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
(06-15-2015 10:33 PM)Suits Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 10:15 AM)Fortis Wrote:  They have all expressed interest in helping me learn some mandarin because they all agree it makes life in China easier. It will probably be a little ways off for me becuase I'm still working through this apartment stuff, but I am glad that my co-workers are so keen on helping me out as I try to learn Mandarin. Admittedly, I feel a little overwhelmed by the language and have no clue where to start with it. I've been picking up little bits of it in my day to day life, but not nearly enough to not look completely retarded to the average chinese person.

Chinese is really not hard to learn, but it is very difficult to get over the initial challenges that confront new learners. This is why it is almost always a mistake for anyone who is serious about learning Chinese to start in China working, instead of starting off as a language student.

The initial learning curve is so steep that most people quite understandably give up and after a year of working, they've reached a level of complacency where they can't be bothered to actually take some time off to enrol in language school.

They've discovered by this point that they can have a low investment but comfortable existence in China. They didn't arrive planning on sacrificing their independence and masculinity by having Chinese women fix all their problems (language barrier related or otherwise), but they had to do so as a necessity initially and they've gotten comfortable with having the self-determination of an infant. Practice makes perfect.

If you want China to be something more than an extended vacation, you need to put serious time and effort into getting comfortable with the language.

This doesn't require a class. Look up the top 100 nouns, verbs and adjectives in English. Memorize all of these words in Chinese and then frequently (preferably daily) put yourself in positions where you need to speak the language.

If you go to Starbucks or McDonalds or anywhere else where you order food in a predictable service pattern, have a Chinese friend help figure out some basic situation vocabulary (Big Mac, Frappuccino, etc) and then make a point of order in 100% Chinese every time you visit (without pointing).

At first you'll stumble over it, but with repeated practice you'll gain skill and confidence and this will allow you to move into areas of language use that are less predictable.

I like this plan a lot. Thanks for the suggestions.

Quote:I took the metro to meet up with hubei girl and rode with my chinese co-worker. He's a good guy. He gave me the low-down on the center's policies with women because he told me that a lot of the female students have been asking whether I am married or have a girlfriend. As Global Entry correctly surmised, it is not a written rule, but it is a rule that teachers and students shouldn't be in relationships of any sort other than professional ones. I figured this was the case, but I am glad he thought it prudent to tell me of his own accord. He also told me that there is not a rule against hooking up with co-workers, though. It was funny that he mentioned any of this because I have no mentioned women to him once.

This guy is a good fellow to have in your social circle. He knows the low down and is genuinely interested in seeing you succeed. Spend time with him. He clearly knows what information you need and he will help you in the future.

He is a good guy. I have been trying to get to know him a little better. He is definitely a good social circle candidate

Quote:I find it so interesting that the Chinese marry young and start families immediately. It almost reminds me of 1940s America in that regard: the family unit is still alive and kicking in China. I am pleased by that.

China, as you've no doubt heard, is several countries living side-by-side. You've got the modernized (not that this is always a good thing) part of society. This comes complete with high educated career women who put of marriage until it's too late and then spend their 30's complaining to me that they really want to get married, but they just have had back luck.

Then you've got the less educated, less moneyed section of society where 20-23 year old girls seem to have absolutely no trouble locking down a man, marrying young and having a family well before their uterus commits suicide. You'll definitely see both in Shenzhen.

Unfortunate for men like us, because the women who are making the terrible choice of focusing on their careers are the ones that we have the most in common with as foreign men.

They do date in their 20's, but their expectations are so unrealistic that they just end up with a bunch of failed relationships and a history of poor choices.

The good news is that if you're having a dry spell, there are lots of damaged 30+ women who love cock and have the body of a 25 year old who will help you redevelop your sex life. It work for me all last winter.

The bad news is that if you're looking for wife material at any point, you might have to learn to be comfortable with a woman that believes all sort of ridiculous absurdities about traditional Chinese medicine.

I'm only two weeks in so a girlfriend is definitely not what I need right now. I'm performing triage on my life right now: learn how to order food, learn how to ask basic questions, learn basic responses to basic questions etc. I will keep in mind what you just said about the 30+ crowd in China. I have matched with a 40 year on Tantan who looks 25 in all her photos. I doubt she looks that way in person, but a man must wonder what a 40 year old chinese woman is doing on TanTan--oh right.

I have nothing against smashing random chinese women who rode the carousel and are regretting their choices. Reminds me of the good ol' USA.


(06-15-2015 11:27 AM)Fortis Wrote:  The apartment stuff is pretty much ironed out. I just pay and move in on wednesday. My boss is giving me the day off, so I have a lot of free time this week: Wednesday, thursday and friday are off, and there is the Dragon Boat festival as well, so I have a total of 4 days off. I'm going to use this time to explore my neighbor and acclimate myself further to Shenzhen.

Good plan.

I'm getting coffee with a few local girls who speak passable english. I'm going to pick their brains about the area I'm living in and Shenzhen in general.

I printed out a list of nouns and verbs like you said and I'm working my way through it. I actually knew about 20 of the words, but I knew them as parts of phrases I have memorized. Not bad. Seems like things are possible now.

Quote:I have spent a lot of time the past 3 days getting the know students and my boss and co-workers say this is time well spent--and I concur. I have had several male students offer to hang out and translate things for me when I am in need. I appreciate this because they really do not have to do it.



Be careful not to assume that these students are doing you any favours. They are paying a lot of money to have access to white teachers with American English and they are going to leverage their ability to help you to score more one-on-one time with you practicing English.

They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Don't refuse their offers of help, but be very careful in China about who you consider a friend. Nearly everyone is working an angle.

Oh, I know they're NOT my friends. I'm just trying to make a good impression on them so that they don't actively despise me, if I can help it. So far my reception has been warm and I should be able to acclimate to the work. I did teach for 3 years before this, but it was a different style, so I'm doing everything to make this as easy as possible for myself. If I work hard this first year, I will be able to do more in China if I decide to remain here.

Quote:I can now say a total of 7 things. They're all functional phrases, and I intend to learn more.

Perfect, you should be learning things that you can and will use every day.

Quote:I suppose it boils down to the concept of face. This concept keeps coming up, and I think I am SLOWLY beginning to see how it informs Chinese society and culture; however, I am a LONG way from being able to explain it well.

There's no such thing as face in China. Despite what might appear to be alpha men, China is actually highly materialistic and feminized.

Women generally call the shots and men work their asses off but rarely make major family decisions.

If you read older travel journals from visitors to China 100-150 years ago, you'll notice that China has been this way for a long time.

The result of having a country devoid of masculinity is that absolutely no one has any emotional maturity.

Have you noticed how women in the West can't handle any criticism? Well, in China, absolutely no one has the emotional maturity to handle criticism.

This makes companies highly inefficient (because the boss cannot accept and never receives honest feedback) and it means that a lot of lying goes on.

Becoming a man means getting your ego under control and learning to improve on your weaknesses so that you don't have to routinely face criticism.

No one in China does this. There are no men here, which is why Chinese women often flock to Western men and do not want Chinese men after they've gotten a taste of Western men.

Don't take anyone serious if they use the word "face." The concept of "face" is just window dressing for the fact that the population of China is a bunch of overgrown children who don't function as adults.

Have you noticed how women in the West try to sell themselves as "mysterious" when they are just a bunch of children who can't control their biological programming?

Same goes for the concept of "face." It's just a fancy word for "we as a culture are incapable of dealing with even half a second of embarrassment because you've never grown up."

As far as people wanting foreign friends for "face" this is no different than buying an expensive car for status. It's not a Chinese thing. People all over the world want to achieve status. It just so happens than in China, having a white friend is a status symbol.

They aren't seriously interested in you as a person and there is no such thing as "face."

Damn, Suits. That was a good assessment and definitely resonates of something I have noticed: I have students who are much older than me, but they all seem quite "behind" developmentally. I have male students who are in their 30s who are not as mature as I am. It was sort of freaky. I'm not even that mature by American standards, so I asked a coworker what he thought of this observation.

He said it had something to do with the fact that mommy and daddy often control the lives of Chinese men even into their later stages, so many of them are infantilised. So, if face isn't real why do we skirt around it so much? Didn't TravelerKai also bring up face before in his huge dating guide?
06-16-2015 09:03 PM
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Post: #169
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
(06-16-2015 09:03 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Damn, Suits. That was a good assessment and definitely resonates of something I have noticed: I have students who are much older than me, but they all seem quite "behind" developmentally. I have male students who are in their 30s who are not as mature as I am. It was sort of freaky. I'm not even that mature by American standards, so I asked a coworker what he thought of this observation.

He said it had something to do with the fact that mommy and daddy often control the lives of Chinese men even into their later stages, so many of them are infantilised. So, if face isn't real why do we skirt around it so much? Didn't TravelerKai also bring up face before in his huge dating guide?

I don't think that TravelerKai or others are necessarily skirting the issue, but my but based on my own observations, I think it's just another one of those things that have been force fed down our throats for so long by the Chinese that we just all accept it.

However, I'm a skeptic by nature, which means that I don't take much at face value.

I'm convinced that while "face" technically exists, you would simply better be described as emotional immaturity and an inability to suffer embarrassment.

I've also been able to observe Chinese people quite a bit and when you watch their behaviour and ignore their words, you quickly realize that they are just a bunch of selfish people who will drive over anyone on their way to getting what they want.

There's no depth to this culture. Just lots of lies and issue avoidance.

If the Chinese were to speak honestly for even two seconds, they'd have to admit to having no substance and no depth, so instead they have just gotten into the habit of never communicating clearly.

You'll probably be insulated from this in Shenzhen, because the roadways are better designed there, but if you want to see the product of 5000 years of civilization and culture, come to Beijing and watch how these cavemen with cars drive. They are completely incapable of participating in a system them ultimately results in a better society for all.

Simple example is a traffic light. While it sucks to have to wait your turn, you and I understand that if everyone follows the rules, we'll all get where we are going much faster. If no one follows the rules, you end up with a traffic jam where intersections are jammed with cars and absolutely no one can move forward.

The thing about Chinese people is that even if the light has been red for 30 or more seconds, they'll still enter the intersection if they have the opportunity.

In the last 5 years, traffic cameras were added to most intersections in Beijing in Tianjin. This was absolutely necessary because prior to the cameras, literally everyone refused to follow the rules.

The Chinese would like us to believe that they have thousands of years of culture and therefore are superior, but the reality is much different from that.

200 years ago, China didn't even exist. It had been previously conquered by the Manchus and no longer was a country.

The current China is a relatively new nation. While the Chinese like to use the word dynasty to describe different periods of their history, the truth is that each dynasty was a completely new country with often a new culture. Each new dynasty (or nation) would destroy as much of the previous dynasty's culture and cultural artifacts as possible, so there has been very little that has been retained from century to century.

Because of the governments non-stop brainwashing, each Chinese person literally believes themselves to be part of this long enduring great nation. This allows them to believe that they are racially and culturally superior.

It's all a lie. They lack culture, sophistication and civilization. They've been literally starting from scratch on all three fronts in the last 20 years and they haven't achieved anything.

Don't let them tell you otherwise.

But don't rub reality in their faces. They won't get it.

I'm the King of Beijing!
06-16-2015 11:55 PM
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Post: #170
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
BadWolf, that you?

(06-16-2015 11:55 PM)Suits Wrote:  
(06-16-2015 09:03 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Damn, Suits. That was a good assessment and definitely resonates of something I have noticed: I have students who are much older than me, but they all seem quite "behind" developmentally. I have male students who are in their 30s who are not as mature as I am. It was sort of freaky. I'm not even that mature by American standards, so I asked a coworker what he thought of this observation.

He said it had something to do with the fact that mommy and daddy often control the lives of Chinese men even into their later stages, so many of them are infantilised. So, if face isn't real why do we skirt around it so much? Didn't TravelerKai also bring up face before in his huge dating guide?

I don't think that TravelerKai or others are necessarily skirting the issue, but my but based on my own observations, I think it's just another one of those things that have been force fed down our throats for so long by the Chinese that we just all accept it.

However, I'm a skeptic by nature, which means that I don't take much at face value.

I'm convinced that while "face" technically exists, you would simply better be described as emotional immaturity and an inability to suffer embarrassment.

I've also been able to observe Chinese people quite a bit and when you watch their behaviour and ignore their words, you quickly realize that they are just a bunch of selfish people who will drive over anyone on their way to getting what they want.

There's no depth to this culture. Just lots of lies and issue avoidance.

If the Chinese were to speak honestly for even two seconds, they'd have to admit to having no substance and no depth, so instead they have just gotten into the habit of never communicating clearly.

You'll probably be insulated from this in Shenzhen, because the roadways are better designed there, but if you want to see the product of 5000 years of civilization and culture, come to Beijing and watch how these cavemen with cars drive. They are completely incapable of participating in a system them ultimately results in a better society for all.

Simple example is a traffic light. While it sucks to have to wait your turn, you and I understand that if everyone follows the rules, we'll all get where we are going much faster. If no one follows the rules, you end up with a traffic jam where intersections are jammed with cars and absolutely no one can move forward.

The thing about Chinese people is that even if the light has been red for 30 or more seconds, they'll still enter the intersection if they have the opportunity.

In the last 5 years, traffic cameras were added to most intersections in Beijing in Tianjin. This was absolutely necessary because prior to the cameras, literally everyone refused to follow the rules.

The Chinese would like us to believe that they have thousands of years of culture and therefore are superior, but the reality is much different from that.

200 years ago, China didn't even exist. It had been previously conquered by the Manchus and no longer was a country.

The current China is a relatively new nation. While the Chinese like to use the word dynasty to describe different periods of their history, the truth is that each dynasty was a completely new country with often a new culture. Each new dynasty (or nation) would destroy as much of the previous dynasty's culture and cultural artifacts as possible, so there has been very little that has been retained from century to century.

Because of the governments non-stop brainwashing, each Chinese person literally believes themselves to be part of this long enduring great nation. This allows them to believe that they are racially and culturally superior.

It's all a lie. They lack culture, sophistication and civilization. They've been literally starting from scratch on all three fronts in the last 20 years and they haven't achieved anything.

Don't let them tell you otherwise.

But don't rub reality in their faces. They won't get it.

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06-16-2015 11:57 PM
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Post: #171
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
I just moved into my apartment. Will post pictures and things later. I felt very suspicious of the entire situation. I wish I had brought a translator with me. Something about the entire situation rubbed me the wrong way. The Landlady just strikes me as so sketchy and untrustworthy. I know that is a terrible thing to say about a woman I can't even talk to, but something about her strikes me as shifty.

She got into a dispute with some lady who is sitting in on the documents signing process. The lady may be some sort of building attendant since the landlady and her husband live quite far away. The woman used her phone translator to say that the landlady is refunding her money. I was totally lost, but I decided to just shut the fuck up and let them do what they're doing until they went away. It struck me as unprofessional that they would sit in my apartment and argue about random shit that has nothing to do with me (directly) after I paid them. Is this how some people do business in China? "I paid you my 4000 now leave!" is what I wanted to say.

It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I want to change the locks now that I'm in here. What in the motherfuck?

In hindsight, I am being a little dramatic, but this apartment shit is absurd in China. What I will say to newbies: Beware renting and apartment if you don't have a great translator you're paying or speak mandarin. it's really frustrating.

I'm thinking that posts such as these may deserve their own thread. I am not necessarily giving data that is actionable to most of the readers. I'll still happily post pertinent data in this thread (night life, day life, girls and little hacks I find along the way), but I would hate to clutter up this thread with random shit like this.

Thoughts?
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2015 08:49 AM by Fortis.)
06-17-2015 08:43 AM
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Post: #172
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Seconded Fortis. I really think travel needs a new subforum. Travel should be kept for travel logs like Linux and CleanSlate type journeys, with datasheets on how to game girls and best venues.

This other subfolder would be for permanent relocation datasheets and discussion like yourself or 262, who is diligently providing great detail on his own departure from the Anglosphere. As more forum members do this, I think having all that advice for a permanent stay that is not necessarily relevant for a traveller is important.

PS: Suits is very on point with his read of Chinese culture. The Cultural Revolution created a blank slate morally and then immediately after that you have the opening and unbelievable wealth? If course it becomes the new religion, social currency, mores, etc. Growing up here in America, I was fortunate to escape an infantilizing upbringing on account of the discrimination I received. This forum has helped eliminate any last vestiges of it I might have had. I can't wait for my first post redpill trip to China with good masculine game, physique and style.

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(This post was last modified: 06-17-2015 09:02 AM by swuglyfe.)
06-17-2015 08:58 AM
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Post: #173
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Fortis, you're through what I consider one of the most arduous tasks in relocation to China. I always had a fluent speaking woman by my side (translators on the way in, when turning the apartments back over, my gal) so I didn't have it quite as bad as you did, and I also spent more than 4,000 RMB per month, and was treated like a foreign businessman. Perhaps that made it easier as well.

With all the other race baiting stuff on this thread the last few days, I hope we can tone it down. There are no doubt a lot of immoral people in China. And in the USA, England, Australia, Canada, France, Japan, Vietnam, and everywhere else. There are also people who have morals. I've had people run after me to return my phone in China - and refuse any kind of award. Keep in mind that my phone costs at minimum two weeks (upto a month or more) salary for these people. They weren't looking for a reward, they simply smiled at me, gave me my phone and started to walk away.

And to suggest that there are no men who are masculine - that's just really a ludicrous assertion. I wonder where that poster spends his time and who is social circle is.

The thing about face not existing, despite it being the primary concept of interpersonal connection in many countries in Asia - that it's just a euphemism for insecurity, and that there is no "Chinese" culture? I don't even know that its even worth starting a conversation about that. The most basic irony about that statement is that much of the culture of many of the other countries in Asia are derived from Chinese culture - the fact that its not unified and went through many empires and transitions, that makes it little different than many countries in the world.

This thread is not really about history lessons, so I don't want to engage in a debate over this - lets just suffice to say that since all of the top universities in the world offer Chinese studies as a major, there's probably consensus amongst the studied classes that some type of culture does exist. Meet some more old fashioned people, or get to know people better so that they let you in a bit, and you'll see it in application.

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Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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06-17-2015 09:42 AM
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Post: #174
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
My bad, GE. I got a bit pissed off and anxious tonight. I didn't mean to imply that the Chinese are bad or anything. I was just annoyed with how these particular people decided to sit and my apartment and argue for 45 minutes after I had paid them.
06-17-2015 10:28 AM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
@Fortis -- I think you've realized by now that the best thing about living in China is that there are 600 million women and 550 million of them want to have sex with you.

There was probably a reason why they were in your apartment for 45 minutes, and it probably had to do with money or figuring out a way not to pay their taxes. Your work will probably pull the same kind of bullshit on you 5 or 6 times a year.

Also, if I want to experience 'Chinese culture' or whatever that really means, I will be on the first flight to Taiwan. But of course, that is also part of China, along with the entire South China Sea.
06-17-2015 01:39 PM
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