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Shenzhen Data Sheet
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Shenzhen Data Sheet
I originally posted this elsewhere around three months ago - hope its not a breach of forum rules to repost my own data sheet here. Let me know if it is, I have another I can migrate afterwards..

(note, I'll probably augment this from time to time if it seems beneficial, if there is a good and notable way to make it clear what's been added - please let me know).

Shenzhen

Overview
Shenzhen is described in some literature as being the Chinese answer to Las Vegas. Having been based in Las Vegas for the past three years or so (at least while I am in the US, maybe half the time or less over the last year and a half), I would say that this description is apt for some purposes and misleading for others. In any event, a city of almost ten million people, it deserves its own explanation.

Thirty years ago, Shenzhen was a fishing village, just across the border from Hong Kong (a 50 minute train ride to Central HK) of perhaps 300,000 mostly Cantonese people (a sub-ethnicity of China speaking a different form of Chinese, inhabiting Guangdong province (which the British named Canton, hence Cantonese) and Hong Kong. After governmental initiatives to develop Shenzhen as an electronics manufacturing and trade center, to supplant Hong Kong, the city swelled to its current size, with people coming from all over China to Shenzhen for work and economic opportunity. Many of these people came without official “leave” to move, which means they are migrant workers and may be here without family, or without access to schools, hospitals, social services, etc. unless they return to their home province.

As a result of the massive influx of people, mostly young, from Hunan (just north), Szechuan (far west), Hubei (north), Jiangxi (east) and other provinces, the most common question upon meeting someone new in Shenzhen is “Ni shi nali ren” - basically, where are you from (you are where person?).

Its an easy enough thing to learn to ask and is a very satisfactory opener. Chinese are not private people about certain things, and its flattering for many girls to have a foreigner (lao-wai or wai-go-ren, or pejoratively, gwai-lo) ask them and take an interest in where their “hometown” is.

Shenzhen is very metropolitan now, but because of all the “villagers” from small towns all over China that occupy almost every area of the city, even in low-rise tenements adjacent to modern hi-rises like where I live in Gangxia, Futian CBD, there is a dichotomy. You can go to a mall or a restaurant where the prices are as high as any in Hong Kong or London, and then blocks away, you can go to a Xinzang style noodle house and have a filling meal for less than US$2, with free tea to boot. If you live as a foreigner, and only frequent places that tourists do, Shenzhen can be quite expensive. But if you can figure out a way to take advantage of the low cost of things the way the Chinese do, other than perhaps housing, living in Shenzhen is remarkably inexpensive (though more than say, Hanoi, which is like living for free).

The Girls
As mentioned before, Shenzhen has girls from all over China. China is massive, the size of the USA, geographically (almost exactly) and has enormous ethnic diversity. People come in all shapes and sizes, but with far fewer overweight people. But eye shape, skin tone and heigh very greatly.

As a result, whatever you like, you’re likely to find at least some of it. Some provincial notes:

Cantonese girls - tend to be less feminine to me, which is a significant turnoff. Thin, and usually on the conservative side, though many Chinese girls are very conservative (I’ll refer to these as Closed for the sake of expediency) or the polar opposite, and are completely dtf (I’ll refer to these as Open). This also is true of Chouzhou people, who are from Guangdong, speak a different language, but the girls tend to be better looking than Cantonese girls, and more feminine (and usually have family money if they’re in Shenzhen). You’ll find a lot of both of these groups in SZ.

Hunan girls - the very populous province directly north of Guangdong, a lot of very delicately beautiful girls come from Hunan. They also tend to be less conservative than say Cantonese girls, but that varies based on the girl. A lot of Shezhenites grew up in Hunan in either Changsha or a smaller city or village.

Sichuan/Chongqing girls - Known by other Chinese as the wildest girls in China, the ones most likely to work in KTV’s or massage places, this probably results from the poorness of their home province, its huge population, and that its beliefs as a western area were more influenced by Tibetan buddhism rather than Confucianism. These girls tend to be thicker, have bigger racks, like to drink more, etc. They’re known for being a bit craft as well. Chinese are big on stereotypes though, so don’t assume too much.

Hubei girls - The danger zone. A province in central china known for good looking but crazy girls. I can confirm this, twofold. Be careful.

There are of course girls from many other places, but in SZ, this probably makes up a good 75 percent of the population. The vast majority of girls you’ll encounter, unmarried, out and about, will be between 19 and 26. They won’t care if your 30 or 40, but they may prefer that you’re not too young. Chinese girls date “up”, in height, age, income, and intelligence (that’s the proverb). Doesn’t always work out that way, but thats the preference.

Physical Interaction and Dating
Chinese girls don’t like for strangers to touch them. They don’t hug guys or kiss them on their cheeks (other than their boyfriends, with whom they do all of these things, and all the time). Breaking the physical barrier without objection from the girl can mean one of several things: for a girl educated abroad, it means very little; otherwise it can mean she’s very interested in you, or that she’s very Open (the Chinese description of easy). You’ll have to figure out which, if the distinction matters to you.

When you first meet a girl in SZ, they’ll likely be conflicted. Chinese girls mostly find light skinned foreigners attractive and they are enticed by the possibility of a foreign boyfriend/husband taking them out of China on a trip or for longer, but the rep of foreign men in SZ is not that much better in some circles than among “good girls” in Thailand. They think you’re there to get laid, especially if your travelling around without a real job. Teaching English is often considered to be a way that sex tourists subsist in China, despite the fact that these positions pay more than most Chinese make at their jobs. There are a tremendous number of English teaching foreigners in China, so the job reduces your foreign cache or ISV. Being a lawyer has a sizable advantage, even though its generally assumed that young or youngish foreigners are English teachers.

With respect to girls, another thing, in China, people don't visit the homes of non-family very often. If a girl is in your apartment, she likely (not definitely) came to get down, unless she lived overseas before in which case she may have gotten used to the foreign custom. Each time I had a girl back to my place, the evening ended the same way. Sometimes it didn't take til the evening.

Pipelining
Personally, SZ is so dense I don’t think you need to do anything in advance. Just turn up. If you’re light skinned, foreign, with a big nose (as opposed to a flat one), tall or at least tallish, beardless (not a deal breaker but preferred), you wont have any problem attracting immediate attention and making friends. Internet dating is popular on many different engines in China. Badoo seems newly popular, but there are multiple avenues. Some wont have many english speakers, though many people can write some english but are uncomfortable speaking english. I’ve gone on many dates with girls with little to no english speaking skills. Google translate sucks, but hey, its a reason to huddle together over a smart phone when meeting someone for the first time.

Dating
Just a brief note, as I imagine most of you know how to date. Its often very helpful to invite a girl to bring a friend on a date if she seems reluctant and is Closed. If she’s Closed, you can get there, but its gonna take some work, and its not a first date thing anyway, so you’re not losing anything by asking her if she wants a girlfriend (not a guy) to come with you. It may be the only way she feels comfortable with the date. If the girl isn’t totally your type, you may like the friend better anyway and trade up.

For Open girls, this need not apply. Just add beer/liquor and stir. A note- some Open girls specialize in foreigners. They’ll likely speak english, could be quite good looking, or mediocre, and maybe have fucked 20 plus guys or more over a 12 month period. They may have on-going friends with benefits situations. These girls just like the advantages and prestige of dating foreigners, and if the Chinese guys know they’re like this, they may not have the option of dating Chinese guys unless they change social circles. Again, you may care, or you may not. I do have a friend who ended up in a committed relationship before realizing his girlfriend was such a girl who decided to settle down, and he’s insecure about her as a result.

Logistics
SZ is geographically big. There are four major districts where you’d considering setting up camp short term or even long term, Shekou, Nanshan, Futian and Luohu. Shekou has the most foreigners by far, and Luohu probably has the fewest. All provide easy access to the border crossing into Hong Kong Northern Territories. I prefer areas without so many foreigners as I speak enough Chinese to get by, and its a hell of a lot cheaper than living in an area thats all foreign. The cache thing obviously has more weight as well. Just get used to be being stared at.


Hotels are very much all across the board pricing wise. The nicest hotel in Shenzhen is the Grand Hyatt, where I stayed for two months last year because our partner had a special rate on rooms there. THe normal rate is over 300USD per night though. A decent Chinese hotel, complete with some language barrier issues, can be around 50USD per night, and a more international one might be 100USD per night. A budget option, of questionable cleanliness will be significantly less money. These prices are for the areas I mention above. As one heads further from areas frequented by foreigners, then prices drop considerably. I often stay in Baoan, a manufacturing district, in a very clean and pleasant hotel, for around 34USD per night (no taxes added, including a decent breakfast).

On the apartment side, short term sublets are fairly available and you can look on the internet. Prices for shared situations can go between budget USD 170 per month) to more extravagant (USD500 per month for a nice shared apt in a cleaner building closer to a subway stop and in a nicer area). Solo apartments are a bit of a hassle, though there are many realtors. Its a bit of a bait and switch game, and the leases are a year and housing can be very competitive. Also, expect to haggle for about a 10-15 percent reducing on the list price. Get a chinese friend to help with the finding and the haggling. If you need a person to help for perhaps 10USD per hour, I know a few good ones.

Getting Around
Easy. Great clean subways til 11 PM and cheap taxis are plentiful in most neighborhoods, though at change over times can be competitive to get them, and some dont want to deal with non-Chinese speakers. All hotels have business cards with their addresses to show to taxi drivers. If you rent an apartment, its suggested you get the same for your new home address.

Destinations
Since SZ is a manufactured city, it doesnt have much to offer culturally and historically that stands out in the city itself, which is mostly newer construction. Destinations tend to be based around shopping or nightlife. As I dont frequent Shekou, I have limited suggested outside Futian, Nanshan and Luohu.

Coco Park- Futian - a bastion of nightlife, foreigners and Chinese intermingling, with some expat oriented places and some more solely Chinese night spots. Combined with a mall and a starbucks, its one of the more common nighttime destinations in SZ. The mall side has a large outdoor plaza with many foreign restaurants and coffee/desert places so there is a lot of daytime traffic and daygame opportunity here as well.

GuoMao - Luohu - A nicer shopping area with a very popular Starbucks (Starbucks are big pickup spots in SZ, and coffee is definitely considered a “Date” for girls, so if you have a girlfriend dont tell her you’re taking another girl alone for coffee unless you want fireworks).

DongMen Commercial Plaza/Laojie - Luohu- a huge shopping area for inexpensive goods made in China. Clothing, cosmetics, electronics (consumer) shoes, and a zillion people on the weekends, mostly young. Also a ton of inexpensive restaurants and strangely my favorite vegetarian buddhist restaurant in SZ is here.

OCT/Windows of the World - Nanshan - Another big but higher end shopping area. Lots of opportunity for day game. OCT Bay, not far away, has a lot of night spots/bars, night clubs, but I prefer bars with fewer foreigners, I tended not to go here except for a specific purpose or invite.

MIX City - Luohu The highest end mall perhaps in China (outside Shanghai). Tons of daygame opportunity, but you may not be able to afford much outside the food courts. Beautiful (some model quality) girls with their older married Chinese boyfriends are everywhere.

Dameisha - Beach area about 20 miles from SZ proper. A big spot to visit for weekends during the warmer weather including mixed groups of foreigners and Chinese camping on the beach. Traffic can be ridiculous. Some high end hotels like a beautiful Sheraton out here. Near...

OCT East- A weird (to me) , fake Swiss spa hotel and village. To me it felt like being at Epcot Center in Disney. Atop a low mountain, the spa wasnt that relaxing as young Chinese people chattered in every hot tub, moved around incessantly, and smoked like Chimneys. For spas, there are much better choices.

Nightclubs in General
Nightclubs in SZ and many other cities in China are table oriented, often lack any kind of considerable room to dance, and can be grossly overcrowded. Its not unusual for a girl to be assigned to your table to refill drinks instantly they are diminshed, generally for the purpose of increasing sales of bottles. You’ll have ample opportunity where there are dancing floors to do dance approaches, and the girls will often be in sets without guys. Either way, its hit or miss but there is generally a big crowd at any popular place and many sets of varying quality, and bunches of girls may be wasted or at least quite tipsy and thus easier to open. Don’t be alarmed if a Chinese guy at a club with few or no foreigners regularly visiting invites you to his table to drink with him, he’s just using you to have more cache by having a foreigner drink with him, and he may be the son of someone richer than you can possibly imagine. Never try to split a bill or such, as its an insult and won’t be accepted nonetheless. In China, the inviter (as well as the person whose hometown it is) pays every time. Every time.


P2P
China isn’t necessarily thought of as a sex tourist destination, but to those in the know, the scale of its sex industry is huge. The nearby city of Dong Guan, which is about 6 million people, and is a 30 minute train ride north from SZ, is estimated to have 800,000 workers in the “hospitality industry” 300,000 of whom are pros. Around SZ and Dong Guan and many other Chinese cities, business men together frequent KTV’s that have concubine type young women to serve beer, wine, and on their prerogative, more. The quality of the KTV girls can vary greatly, as can the pricing. The ages, 23 and below, are pretty standard. Expect to spend a good amount of money for the room and booze at a higher end KTV, and an additional 1000 RMB (166 USD) for the night, not including the price of the hotel (usually not that much depending on the city and location for the room). There are also massage houses, shower places, and a million other variations on service though I’ve never seen a strip club in China. Accessing many of these places may be difficult or impossible for non-Chinese speakers, and if you go alone, you may also be very overcharged as well (although if you know the proper costs of the girls, they won’t argue with you and tipping is uncustomary in China). At the KTVs’ the girls, who many business men may see regularly over years and years, sometimes exclusively, usually don’t do bjs or any other extras with casual partners (they may do much more with their regular businessman “boyfriend” if they have one), though you’re experience certainly may vary depending on the girl.

Some Other Thoughts.
I’ve been in Shenzhen in total for about 10 months now, and like it very much. Its pretty clean (by Chinese standards) and while its expensive compared to some Chinese cities, its not expensive at all by western standards. Its also really easy to travel to HK or Guangzhou (a monstrously large Chinese city an hour by train to the north) and catch an international flight to almost anywhere, direct. In fact Shenzhen’s own airport’s international airport just opened and now has its first international flights (to Kuala Lumpur). Within China, Shenzhen is two hours by plane to Shanghai, and three and a bit to Beijing.

China is a strange place, and there are some perils like food contamination. This site isn’t about food safety so I won’t say much more than avoid cheap restaurants using a lot of oil in their cooking (i.e. fried food places and cheap Sichuan joints). Overall, for foreigners, because its a major gateway for China, criminals don’t mess with you because the police will damage them badly and permanently if they’re caught. China doesn’t want foreigners relying on HK, it really wants them in SZ spending money directly within mainland China.

Visas in China are increasing complicated, and there is a de facto requirement for long term visa that you get them in your home country. You can get a shorter term visa (two entries, two months) in Hong Kong, typically.

Hope its been helpful for starters, and feel free to ask questions.

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Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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Phils SZ China
02-09-2014 06:18 PM
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Luvianka Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Thanks for the info. I am planning to go to China this year by taking advantage of some invitations Mexican-Chinese Chamber of Commerce do to people working in or having business with consulting firms involved in strategic planning projects.
My main focus is to watch first hand the Chinese miracle, but if you can bang one those petite girls in the process it doesn't hurt.

With God's help, I'll conquer this terrible affliction.

By way of deception, thou shalt game women.

Diaboli virtus in lumbar est -The Devil's virtue is in his loins.
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2014 06:58 PM by Luvianka.)
02-09-2014 06:41 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Awesome data G_global!
I was in Guangzhou and am planning on spending some serious time there for biz and learning Chinese. SZ is also very high on my list as a place to set up shop.

What would you say are the differences and advantages of SZ over GZ in terms of living there, quality and attitudes of girls?

Interesting that you mentioned hotels being expensive in SZ. In GZ I was staying in the best part of town in a nice suit for about 35 bucks a night.

You also mentioned that living in Hanoi is almost free. I'd love to see you post a data sheet on it. I am returning to Asia in April and will be traveling around and Hanoi is on my list.

Cheers man!
02-09-2014 06:42 PM
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Global Entry Offline
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Hey VP…
I'd say that GZ and Shenzhen have some similarities, though GZ has a huge population based of Cantonese people (Guangdong ren) whereas SZ is really a city populated by people from elsewhere. No doubt the factory working population in GZ comes from all over China, but in SZ, there isn't a central cultural identity that is Cantonese, whereas in GZ there is. Most people speak Cantonese getting around in GZ, and you'll actually be thought of negatively by many if you try to converse in Mandarain. I wouldn't base in GZ if one of your primary goals is to learn pu tong hua (Mandarin).

I do think that both places have inexpensive accommodations, but being so close to HK, anywhere remotely close to a border crossing in SZ has risen in price unless its an absolute shithole. GZ is frankly enormous, and I won't claim to know too much about it, but variability comes with that. Also (and especially during the pre-Xmas fall factory blitz) the air is quite shitty in many cities, GZ being one of the worst in the south (I think Changsha in Hunan has really bad smog too). Shenzhen might have some cloudy days, but its basically much cleaner air-wise than GZ.

I'm not sure I have enough data points for Hanoi, which I've visited twice for a total of perhaps 9-10 days. I did more of a standard tourist thing, museums and dining experience. I went on a few dates, but I don't know that I'd really be adding to the discussion. One potential negative (in my opinion) about Hanoi is that at least certain parts of it are overrun with backpacker tourists. I like Hanoi but I think that I might have been better off checking out some beach cities - I was chasing a girl (friend) in particularly in Hanoi, and wasted a lot of time there - nice girl, no progress.

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Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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Phils SZ China
02-09-2014 07:26 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
This chick was saying she goes to KTV for singing but it sounds like KTV is a joint to pic up hookers? Can OP or VP help me understand this?

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02-09-2014 10:51 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Thank you G_global for all the gold you're dropping! Much appreciated amigo!

Mentavious,
My understanding is that there are two types of karaoke joints: the regular ones where people go with their friends to sing and drink. And the higher end which is where business people go to entertain their clients or potential business partners. These are where beautiful hostesses are available to sit with them and are available as a take out for P4P.

I may be wrong as my time in China (GZ) was quiet short so all the China pros in here feel free to chip in and correct me as needed.
02-09-2014 11:12 PM
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paninaro Offline
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Excellent datasheet! Two questions:

1. You mentioned not having a beard to be attractive. Why is this? My thinking is that since many Chinese men can't grow facial hair, than having some would make you stand out in a good way.

2. There was a book published a couple years ago called Factory Girls, about the migrant women who went to cities like SZ to work. They're pretty much all single and young. It wrote about their personal lives, search for love, and how bored they were on their days off. Any experience with that group of women? I see you were in a few factory districts in SZ so maybe you came across this.
02-10-2014 12:21 AM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Been wanting to venture out to Shenzhen and some lesser known cities in China. Thanks for the sheet.

Would you say it's easier for white guys staying there long term to meet and hook up with C girls as opposed to BJ and SH, since there are less in general there and you're more of a novelty with less competition? Or are most girls really that conservative?

And is English even less spoken there as well? I imagine the language barrier is even worse.

The age thing is spot on and pretty funny. I once went out on a date with a girl in Shanghai I met off badoo. She was 28 and told me I was too young for her.
02-10-2014 12:59 AM
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Global Entry Offline
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Mentavious - indeed there are two types of KTV in China, one for businessmen (or men), and the other is for groups of people. Actually, in practice the bigger KTV's in Shenzhen have hostess girls even if they're hosting young mixed groups - they just don't parade them around the KTV in the same way. If a girl is saying she's going to the KTV, most likely she's referring to the latter.

Paninaro - there may be exceptions, but for whatever reason, I found beards to be disfavored, with exceptions of course. It may make you stand out, but not all that stands out is positive. Perhaps it harkens back to Japanese imperialism. I don't know why.
With respect to factory girls, yes, you'll meet plenty. They tend to work six days a week and live in dorms that are attachéd to the factory where they work. Hence, they work there, sleep there, and eat there. But because the dorms are single sex, usually, they can't fuck there. That's where you come in. Often though, the districts where the factories are may be far away from where you would normally find nightlife - they have it there too, KTVs are everywhere - but those KTVs might not be the ones you'd be likely to encounter. In Shenzhen, the Longgang, Baoan other Bantian districts (along with some others) have the factories - they're more gritty blue color areas (though to be sure, they are working class people and residences most everywhere) and have very few foreigners. I spent a good amount of time in Baoan for various reasons, and wouldn't see more than one or two foreigners a day.

GC - I wouldn't say that in SZ there are so few foreigners - its changed and it really depends on where in SZ. You may go to an area where not many white guys stay, but its not like they haven't seen foreigners before, like some areas of China. You'll get stared at there, but I live in Futian, just not an area with a lot of foreigners and I get stared at constantly because I shop at the Chinese groceries and wet market. I think Chinese girls in all these big cities are curious about foreigners, though english may be better in BJ and SH than in Shenzhen. Most girls of an age you'd encounter will have studied english and may not be comfortable talking, but they'll text pretty well in English. Be very careful with google translate though, its gotten me in deep shit more than once. Seriously.

Conservative vs. non-conservative. If they're out at the bars, drinking ,they're not conservative. They may not be completely open, but they're not going to be totally closed. Many chinese women don't drink at all. Usually the ones that will drink with you will do more with you as well. Its not to say that if they don't drink you can't close, its just another indicator. If there is Kino, though, thats probably the strongest indicator other than a home visit (hers or yours).

I've referral links for most credit cards, PM me for them & thanks if you use them
Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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Phils SZ China
02-10-2014 09:32 PM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
(02-10-2014 12:21 AM)paninaro Wrote:  Excellent datasheet! Two questions:

1. You mentioned not having a beard to be attractive. Why is this? My thinking is that since many Chinese men can't grow facial hair, than having some would make you stand out in a good way.

2. There was a book published a couple years ago called Factory Girls, about the migrant women who went to cities like SZ to work. They're pretty much all single and young. It wrote about their personal lives, search for love, and how bored they were on their days off. Any experience with that group of women? I see you were in a few factory districts in SZ so maybe you came across this.

I had girls and guys compliment me on my goatee pretty frequently in Shenzhen. It was also nice to stand on the subway train with Chinese people as far as the eye could see and be the tallest guy there. (I'm just a little over six feet tall)

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(This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 10:17 AM by Cr33pin.)
02-11-2014 10:16 AM
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RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
You are right. Factory workers are in great need of love. Most of them live and dorms. They have male / female separate dorm. They get one day off every two weeks.

The best one to approach is their sales girls. They are more put together, most of them speaks English. Easier approach is at the Trade Shows. Most of them are very easy to talk to. They will give you their mobile number. Most will pretend to be "traditional" but 90% are DTF.
02-11-2014 12:45 PM
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Post: #12
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Would speaking near fluent Chinese give a foreigner a huge advantage, or are the English speaking local girls better targets. Curious about both Shenzhen and Guangzhou if you can comment on the latter.
02-13-2014 04:55 PM
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Post: #13
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
(02-13-2014 04:55 PM)ao85 Wrote:  Would speaking near fluent Chinese give a foreigner a huge advantage, or are the English speaking local girls better targets. Curious about both Shenzhen and Guangzhou if you can comment on the latter.

Speaking mandarin is gonna put you leaps and bounds ahead of other foreigners in China. The language barrier was the BIGGEST cock blocker for me in China. (I still got it in with some Chinese girls) I was however pretty much limited to English speaking girls.

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02-13-2014 06:25 PM
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Post: #14
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Speaking chinese obviously is a benefit, because of course, even if some Chinese girls will struggle to make it work with very limited english, there are many (China is a numbers game above all else, in every way) who won't feel comfortable, and really, for Chinese, that makes it a non-starter. You may meet girls who would be totally excited to go out with you, and even be DTF, but they're scared away by the inability to communicate. I've encountered this many times.

That being said, there are many people with some english skills in Guangdong, where both SZ and GZ are.

I've also seen Chinese girls get kind of excited over foreigners speaking a bit of Chinese. Just speaking Chinese to many can be its own opener. It also gives them the sense you take their culture and country more seriously and takes you out of the category of being a foreigner in China simply to cruise for girls.

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Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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02-13-2014 09:44 PM
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Post: #15
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
I wanted to add one more thing to this thread, which is that whilst in China, definitely load WeChat (called Weixin in China, where it was invented) onto your smartphone. Not only is it by far the most popular internet messaging program, but has a function, for those who don't know/use it, called People Nearby (it used to have a cooler name, Look Around). When you access PN, it shows you the other people within 2km who have also access the function within the past few hours. A Belgian guy living between HK and Zhuhai, a bit of a player himself, showed it to me, and I met two different girls, both attractive, he met by using it. Basically, its hit or miss, you load a picture into your profile, but because many Chinese are interested in foreigners and in learning english as well, random spamming of good looking girls (you can see their profile and their last ten picture postings, so may be possible to screen reasonably) gets reasonable results, and of course, they are nearby. You'll also get the return favor. For example, I accessed it yesterday, and though no girl replied to the messages I sent (maybe two I think) , two others initiated contact with me. One of them was a married woman in her thirties who may have just been trying to get me to send her a dick pic (she said she would contact me today for some NSA action, but she hasn't replied today, after a long fucking conversation in chinese text) but the other one is a mid-twenties girl who works in my neighborhood, and if I follow through, will meet me tomorrow afterwork near her house for coffee.

You'll get some guys adding you - you can determine whether they can be helpful as you explore china, but they may be gay, and you also may get guys posing as women occasionally, but they'll tell you during the conversation. This is also I've heard of happening intermittently through friends on QQ, another social networking site/app. I couldn't even begin to explain whats motivating these guys, though I guess its sort of like the ladyboy thing.

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Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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02-26-2014 08:33 AM
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Post: #16
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
A brief update on the Weixin pickups…
The married woman looking (maybe) for NSA flaked entirely. I met the 23 year old, however, at a Starbucks in her neighborhood (Luohu, near Guomao station). She was more than 30 minutes late, and since she didn't look terrific (a middling 6) I though about bailing, but she kept texting me to apologize and say she was on her way.

The date was interesting primarily because the girl spoke zero english, and it gave me a real opportunity to see how much Chinese I have, and my ability to converse on a basic level. We went to an indian restaurant nearby Guomao station (a good place, called Bollywood, right outside Exit A if you're in SZ, check it out). I must say that with some assist from google (and when you use google translate in Chinese, make sure to keep your sentences simple and short, or you'll end up in trouble), I did OK with my conversing. I also realize that if I had what many people call a 160cm dictionary (a Chinese girlfriend who only speaks Chinese) my language skills would be far better. The reality of the matter is that both of my chinese gfs have spoke good to excellent english, so that hasn't helped my language skills.

SNL's are fairly rare in China amongst girls who aren't drunk in a bar, and I've already made the point about what it means to be invited to a girl's home. So I was surprised when she asked me after dinner what I'd be doing, and when I replied that I didn't have anything to do, she invited me back to her home (a few minutes walk from the restaurant). Again, a very forward move from this girl, who was far from the wild type.

We got back to her place, where she lived with a roommate (-1) and her bed is actually in the living room, whilst the roommate has a bedroom (-1). However, the roommate was on vacation in Singapore (+5). Hehe. I escalate, takes forever and forever, and when she resists, I use the fact that she repeated my age to me (43 vs. her 23) and say to her that she said I am too old, even though I know she doesn't think that.

Her auntie is in town (meaning she's on the rag, fuck me - or don't actually), but clothes come off, and she's grinding on top of me, saying Wo xiang ni repeatedly (I want you in Chinese). Softest skin, and for sure the best fucking big soft tits I've ever seen in China, akin to a japanese girlie magazine, quite shocking. She's giving me a HJ (which my friend and I joke about by referring to it as "old school" like when you're in junior high, though tbh, I never got anything close to a HJ in junior high), and rolling around, and unfortunately, it will have to wait for round two. Unfortunately, logistics may be a killer because I don't want her to come to my place (I don't want her just turning up at a very inopportune time, as I've had Chinese girls do before), and I don't know when her roommate is coming back. Maybe I can blindfold her and bring her to my apartment, so she cannot find it afterwards.

I've referral links for most credit cards, PM me for them & thanks if you use them
Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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02-27-2014 09:33 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Second date with the Weixin girl, I'm gonna next her. I rented a hotel room in her district, having given her a song and dance about how I had a colleague staying in my apartment so I wanted to get out of there. I'm definitely uncomfortable enough that she works in my general neighborhood and my gf and I might run into her (unlikely but possible) - fuck I don't want her knowing where I live and potentially showing up.
We went to dinner across from the hotel, which incidentally was next door to her apartment building. She then left to meet her cousin and came back three hours later, which was really annoying. When she showed up, for the first bit of time, she acted like we hadn't even hooked up before, so I began to get irritated. Then she kept, between making out, saying Shui Jiao, which means sleep. After a while of this bs, she asked me to take a shower. Meantime, she's topless in the bed with her fantastic tits out, but her pants from her daytime outfit still on, and these things have snaps and buttons that must have been fashioned at Alcatraz. I take a shower, and when I come back, she's basically entirely asleep and unresponsive. I'm annoyed enough to stop trying, but I at least get her pants unbuckled but not off - a harbinger of more success to come. If I can get a hand/finger inside, 99/100 I'll close the deal. In the morning, I do exactly that, but she's putting up serious, not trivial resistance, and time is running out before she has to go to work. She jumps out of bed to take a shower, and then times up. Shutout, and I paid 300 RMB for the fucking hotel just to close this. The tits, as expected, tops in Asia. The rest of her is mediocre, and so I think unless a more favorable circumstance presents itself, I am deleting her from my WeChat. Risk/reward just isn't there.

What I really wanted to also mention is another very effective way to close in China- its worked well for me many times to get girls to come over to my place, and if you read this or other data sheets on China, you'll know that if you get them to come over, you're basically in.

Cooking - I know it sounds goofy to some of you, but its true. Chinese are basically food obsessed. Half the reason Chinese tourists are everywhere is so that they can try food from different countries. Chinese girls love men cooking for them, and a foreign man cooking for them, perhaps Chinese style food or even better, some Waiguo food they've never tried, is very hard to resist. It can be something totally normal and typical in your home country - for Americans, perhaps fried chicken (which I don't even eat) is a very good choice. There are lots of KFC's but I am talking about making homestyle fried chicken, easy, the ingredients are readily available, just google for a decent recipe. Cook for them, it gets them into your place, and once they're there, its almost in their mindset that they're staying over. And the vast majority of the time, regardless of the first half of this post, that leads to sex. You also only need to learn to cook one dish (I can cook quite well, so its no issue for me to make any number of things) if you're gonna use it as you go through different girls, so there's not much time investment.

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Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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03-11-2014 01:53 AM
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Post: #18
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
How would you compare the situation in China with South East Asia, if you've been there too in regards to quality of girls available to foreigners?
03-11-2014 02:06 AM
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Post: #19
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
I think it would be comparable to what I've seen in Thailand, with respect to the quality of girls available, the fact that there is some degree of suspicion of your motivations as a foreigner, coupled with an interest in foreigners even at the same time. An advantage is that China doesn't have the confusion issues when it comes to working girls posing as regular girls only to drop the money thing some time later - I've never heard of that happening in China (though I imagine there may be high end call girls in bars in Beijing or Shanghai who try that tactic).

I know girls who are (to me) 8s and above who are available to, and do indeed date, foreigners. There are definitely high end girls who won't though, and you'll see a lot of them with older guys, 20-30 years their senior.

I think compared to Vietnam, the girls tend to be friendlier to foreigners in China, whereas in Vietnam (my experience being limited to Hanoi during two trips there) many girls seemed more stand-offish (not all though, to be sure).

The Philippines is its own animal, and girls of all flavors are, as you likely know, widely available to foreigners, with upper middle class and rich girls tougher to crack without some deep social circle work.

I've been to Malaysia as well, and the Chinese girls in Malaysia acted like Chinese girls in China (I was in Borneo, in a small city called Semporna). The ethnic Malaysians in Semporna all were muslim and whilst some of them seemed friendly, and cute, they really weren't a possibility in my opinion.

I've referral links for most credit cards, PM me for them & thanks if you use them
Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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03-11-2014 06:35 AM
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Post: #20
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
The first Chinese girl I banged in Shenzhen tried to fuck me to death. I stayed at her apartment we had a few drinks and banged. Soon as I nutted (on her face) We briefly towel off and I go back and lay in her bed. She goes down on me soon as I lay down. I get hard again we bang for a short time, a little less then 10 minutes I get soft (don't nut) and lay back down. She giggles then goes back down on me. We repeat this little game four times.... Finally I get tired of it, I just wanna sleep so I bang the shit out of her (I'm a hung guy and was taking it kind of easy at first cause she was so ridiculously tight) She is crying I am smashing her head into the top of her bed her ankles actually get caught up in her head board, I do this for about ten minutes shes crying the whole time. I stop and roll over and think to myself "Ha showed that bitch...I hear a sniffle then a giggle and she goes back down on me!!!!! I push her off the bed and tell her to leave me alone! She does.
We fall asleep and I wake up in the middle of the night, shes all pressed against me and its way to fucking hot for me to sleep. So I take her blanket and go to sleep on her big ass couch. She wakes up a little later and says shes freezing and wants her blankey. I say no its mine go to sleep, she ends up shivering and falling asleep crying "noooo my blankey please." Wakes me up in the morning hands me a menu and ask what I want for breakfast, I point to something that looks tastey she tells me to take a shower. I get out of the shower she hands me a coffee and proceeds to blow me until the food get there. She then feeds me the food, blows me to completion and calls me a cab and gives me cab money.
An that was my Chinese flag.

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(This post was last modified: 03-11-2014 09:22 AM by Cr33pin.)
03-11-2014 09:20 AM
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Post: #21
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
I signed up for Chineselovelinks - for biz purposes tho - and put up a single picture, a good one, but still. Get lots of 'Interest' and a lot more profile views. The ones sending interest or messaging aren't very attractive, but A LOT of the girls visiting my profile are actually quite cute, easy 7+ for me. Maybe I just like the chinese look more than Thai. They also seem to be much better at English.

Quite a lot of the attractive ones are from Guangdong, is that a city or province?

Think I will have to go to China very soon, which city would you recommend to begin with, Shenzhen?
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2014 11:40 AM by berserk.)
03-11-2014 11:39 AM
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Post: #22
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Berserk,
Guangdong is the province in the south east of China near the border from Hong Kong. You have cities like Shenzhen and Guangzhou there.
You signed up for a chinese dating site - for biz purposes? Care to elaborate on that?
03-11-2014 12:38 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
(03-11-2014 12:38 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Berserk,
Guangdong is the province in the south east of China near the border from Hong Kong. You have cities like Shenzhen and Guangzhou there.
You signed up for a chinese dating site - for biz purposes? Care to elaborate on that?

Simple if you check my sig, I am in that niche online and one of the benefits is doing field research. Judging by personal taste, I'd say the average indo chick is also more attractive on dating sites than the average thai girl, of course filipinocupid is filled to the rafters with petite, curvy, big lipped girls. I'd say Thai dating sites are pretty bad comparatively, which is why I asked if there was access to better educated and higher quality women in China. The average girl in Indo or China seems much better at English and much better at putting together a profile.
03-11-2014 02:43 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Simply put, China is a different standard of living, and often education, than the Philippines and Thailand. All the girls on these sites have gone through high school, all of them have a smart phone with internet access. Many of them are conversant to a degree in English, even if they may not be comfortable with the sound of their speech in English (or confident enough to try it). It's not surprising that with extensive opportunities to be on the internet with their phone (all they have to do is visit any coffee shop, and even 3G is not particularly expensive in China) and a real education, their better prepared to put up a decent profile. Pics can be tricky, as like some other countries' ladies, Chinese girls take a lot of "selfies" and unfortunately since Facebook is blocked in China, you have fewer opportunities to vet whether they look like they do in the Pictures. You can try moving the conversation over to QQ or to Wechat, but some people don't have many pictures on those, either. Its unlikely that you get fat girls, particularly in South China, so if the face looks good, you're probably in good shape.

Crippin, my first gf here basically worked all week as a professor at a local college, then would come to my apartment for the weekend. All we did was fuck and eat and sleep. Really, that was it. She didn't want to do anything else. I remember once, after getting get off a few times one afternoon, she had this dazed look on her face, sitting on my bed, naked. She turned to me like she was in a zombie trance and said one word -"Sex." My current gf has said too many times to count that all we do is have sex - its not a complaint in China to be sure, just a statement of fact. A lot of Chinese couples have sex once a week - so foreign men who outperform this standard get this kind of sex-god rep. Maybe you're bj gal was testing that to the limits. I've never received a bj in China while drinking coffee, so that's a new one.

I've referral links for most credit cards, PM me for them & thanks if you use them
Strip away judeo-christian ethics ingraining sex is dirty/bad & the idea we're taking advantage of these girls disintegrates. Once you've lost that ethical quandary (which it isn't outside religion) then they've no reason to play the victim, you've no reason to feel the rogue. The interaction is to their benefit.
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03-11-2014 08:34 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Shenzhen Data Sheet
Great sheet. Sometimes I wonder if I should be hanging out in China.
03-12-2014 05:47 AM
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