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Ukraine conflict lounge
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Knight of Malta Offline
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Post: #2576
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Zbigniew Brzezinski predicted back in 1996 that there would be a war over eastern Ukraine and Crimea, in his book the Grand Chessboard. He wrote that it is in the Western Establishment's interests to take control of Ukraine away from Russia because without it Russia cannot be a Eurasian empire that could threaten Anglo ZOG global hegemony. In that sense, Brzezinski wrote that Ukraine is the single most important "geostrategic pivot" on the Eurasian chessboard.

Sorry Ukrainian nationalists and Banderites, but you are just useful idiots and pawns for the Anglo American Zionist Establishment. Brzezinski admits so himself in Grand Chessboard, and he devoted a lot of the book to talking about Russia and Ukraine.

Quote:Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire. Russia without Ukraine can still strive for imperial status, but it would then become a predominantly Asian imperial state ... However, if Moscow regains control over Ukraine, with its 52 million people and major resources as well as its access to the Black Sea, Russia automatically again regains the wherewithal to become a powerful imperial state, spanning Europe and Asia.
--p. 46
Quote:Most troubling of all was the loss of Ukraine .... it represented a vital geopolitical setback for the Russian state. The repudiation of more than three hundred years of Russian imperial history meant the loss of a potentially rich industrial and agricultural economy and of 52 million people ethnically and religiously sufficiently close to the Russians to make Russia into a truly large and confident imperial state ... the loss of Ukraine was geopoliticaly pivotal, for it drastically limited Russia's geostrategic options.
--p. 92
Quote:Most important, however, is Ukraine. As the EU and NATO expand, Ukraine will eventually be in the position to choose whether it wishes to be part of either organisation ... Although this will take time, it is not too early for the West--while further enhancing its economic and security ties with Kiev--to begin pointing at the decade 2005-2015 as a reasonable time frame for the initiation of Ukraine's progressive inclusion.
--p. 121
Quote:Ukraine's determination to preserve its independence was encouraged by external support. Although initially the West, especially the United States, had been tardy in recognising the geopolitical importance of a separate Ukrainian state, by the mid 1990s both America and Germany became strong backers of Kiev's separate identity ... without Ukraine, as already noted, an imperial restoration based on either the CIS or on Eurasianism was not a viable option.
--p. 113
Quote:The states deserving America's strongest geopolitical support are Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, and (outside this region) Ukraine, all three being geopolitically pivotal. Indeed, Kiev's role reinforces the argument that Ukraine is the critical state, insofar as Russia's own future evolution is concerned.
--p. 149
Quote:The consolidation of a sovereign Ukraine, which in the meantime redefines itself as a Central European state and engages in closer integration with Central Europe, is a critically important component of such a policy.
--p. 203

Azov is funded and controlled by Jewish oligarchs. Usually the same exact people who support Azov say Putin is a Jewish puppet because there are some Jewish oligarchs involved with him, but if Azov does the same thing, it's OK? Ukraine, the only country outside of Israel with a Jewish President and Jewish Prime Minister, with Azov Nazis fighting for their government. What a clown country.

Azov are obviously pawns that are useful to the Anglo American Zionist Establishment as long as their energies are directed against Russia. Once they're no longer useful, the NATO/EU-controlled puppet government will get rid of them because they are bad optics and pose a threat. The head of Azov has already claimed that the SBU (Security Service of Ukraine) has tried to assassinate him. Not surprising.

The only mistake Putin made in 2014 is that he did not go far enough. He should have annexed the entirety of Ukraine, or at least the eastern and central two-thirds. Only liberating Crimea puts Russia in a weird middle ground where much of the Ukrainian population is agitated because of the war in the east, but it's a frozen conflict with no end in sight that has become a burden on Russia, and especially Russia-Europe relations that are geopolitically vital for countering the Anglo ZOG menace. So it was a mistake only going half way with Crimea.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2019 12:01 PM by Knight of Malta.)
06-25-2019 11:59 AM
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Knight of Malta Offline
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Post: #2577
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
I will also add this about Ukraine/Azov:
remember how the European and American media always portray Western nationalists as "Nazis", "fascists," white supremacists, etc.? And even the Polish nationalists were characterized in a similar way during the gathering on Poland's independence day.

Yet, since the start of the Ukraine crisis, the same media that never hesitates to condemn any Westerner to the right of Mitt Romney as a Nazi aggressively counter signaled those in Russia who said that Ukrainian Maidan protests were largely dominated by self-admitted National Socialists. We all remember John McCain going to visit Oleg Tyanibok, or whatever his name is, the National Social Party leader in Ukraine. I distinctly remember around 2014-2015 this was at its peak, with Americans saying any claims of there being Nazi groups at the Maidan is just "Russian propaganda." Only in the past couple of years has the US media reluctantly beginning to admit the existence of groups like Azov, but even then some accounts openly praise these groups that are fighting in the "ATO".

So the globalists are anti-nationalist in the West, but they have no problem with Ukrainian nationalism and even open National Socialism in Ukraine. NATO's official YT channel even put out a video a few years back that praised a group of anti-communist Baltic State rebels who had collaborated with Germany during WW2. Naturally the comment section was full of anti-Russian Baltic and Ukrainian NatSoc types. It was bizarre to see these people praising NATO, an organisation that Brzezinski identifies in Grand Chessboard as vital for the Anglo American Empire's continued domination of the European continent, which is one of the aspects that makes its control of Eurasia and ultimately the world possible.

So clearly the establishment is on the side of the Ukrainian nationalists. Yet these Eastern European nationalist types want Westerners to believe that these low IQ football hooligans are going to outmaneuver and outsmart international Jewry? lmao. They say they're using NATO and Jewish support temporarily as an advantage, and that they are using them, when it's really the other way around.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2019 01:31 PM by Knight of Malta.)
06-25-2019 01:27 PM
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reciproke Offline
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Post: #2578
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Quote:Azov is funded and controlled by Jewish oligarchs.

Whew lad, that meme is tough to get rid of. As all Ukrainian military, it is being financed by taxpayers. I've made two posts for you that you gallantly ignored.

Who is trying to use whom as a pawn is completely irrelevant. What Brzezinski wrote is totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter if media portrays whom as good and bad.

The cause is righteous and it's the moral choice. At the end of the day, it's all you need to know. What you are trying to do is to use economic and geopolitical arguments to justify the subjugation by a globalist mafia of an independent people. You are playing exactly the same corrupt and immoral political game which is the false dichotomy of Nato vs. Eurasia. The Russian Federation is just a different kind of Globalism and if you think her Oligarchs are a different "kind of breed" then whew, you're totally bonkers.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2019 04:00 PM by reciproke.)
06-25-2019 03:27 PM
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Knight of Malta Offline
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Post: #2579
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-25-2019 03:27 PM)reciproke Wrote:  
Quote:Azov is funded and controlled by Jewish oligarchs.

Whew lad, that meme is tough to get rid of. As all Ukrainian military, it is being financed by taxpayers. I've made two posts for you that you gallantly ignored.

Except for the inconvenient fact that Kolomoisky and other oligarchs have openly admitted to funding Azov and other nationalist battalions. This is publicly available information. It's true that Azov is legally part of the National Guard, but in effect in many ways it's a private army, and part of their funding comes from oligarchs. Like the rest of Ukraine's governmental institutions it is taking sides in the struggle between different clans of oligarchs vying for power.

Quote:Who is trying to use whom as a pawn is completely irrelevant. What Brzezinski wrote is totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter if media portrays whom as good and bad.

What a big brained take.

Quote:The cause is righteous and it's the moral choice. At the end of the day, it's all you need to know. What you are trying to do is to use economic and geopolitical arguments to justify the subjugation by a globalist mafia of an independent people. You are playing exactly the same corrupt and immoral political game which is the false dichotomy of Nato vs. Eurasia. The Russian Federation is just a different kind of Globalism and if you think her Oligarchs are a different "kind of breed" then whew, you're totally bonkers.

Not really, you're describing it too simplistically. Russia is a imperialist, not globalist. Russia has always been an empire, a righteous and moral one as the successor of the Holy Byzantine Imperium. Oligarchs in Russia are only a temporary problem that will be resolved in time. NATO vs. Russia is not a false dichotomy, and if you chose to ignore geopolitics, that doesn't make you immune from it, it just means you lose by default.

Ukraine, as a weak country, will either be controlled by one Great Power or another. In this case it's either Russia or Anglo ZOG, and it is very much preferable for both Ukrainians and everyone else for it to be the former.

Gradually it seems more Ukrainians are coming to realise that the EU and the West don't need them as anything more than vehicle to use against Russia, and that Ukraine without Russian support is merely a giant Moldova. It is still completely oriented for trade with Russia.
06-25-2019 06:28 PM
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reciproke Offline
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Post: #2580
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Quote:Except for the inconvenient fact that Kolomoisky and other oligarchs have openly admitted to funding Azov and other nationalist battalions.
In 2014. I've now made three posts about being that bizarre and bringing it up repeatedly. Is there actually a soviet agent school that teaches agents to repeat rhetorics until everyone believes it?

Quote:Not really, you're describing it too simplistically. Russia is a imperialist, not globalist.


Semantics, you whine about your Anglo-American Empire but fail to see the a different brand of the same phenomenon. Reason for this is probably because you are not living there and get your information from intellectual think tanks romanticizing their enemy's enemy.

Quote: Russia has always been an empire, a righteous and moral one as the successor of the Holy Byzantine Imperium. Oligarchs in Russia are only a temporary problem that will be resolved in time.

Heartily chuckle. I just let that masturbation fantasy sink in.

Quote:NATO vs. Russia is not a false dichotomy, and if you chose to ignore geopolitics, that doesn't make you immune from it, it just means you lose by default.

You are continuing to play the game by their rules, rules that they can change as they desire. You will end up with the same sociopath mindset as our political caste if you don't already have it, to begin with.

Quote:Ukraine, as a weak country, will either be controlled by one Great Power or another. In this case it's either Russia or Anglo ZOG, and it is very much preferable for both Ukrainians and everyone else for it to be the former.

Also heartily chuckle if you really think Russia is a stronghold against that. I've indicated enough that the same breed of Oligarchs is active there and you just continue your act. Face it, you're bonkers and probably not even getting paid for being it. At least prostitutes take money for their services.

Quote:Gradually it seems more Ukrainians are coming to realise that the EU and the West don't need them as anything more than vehicle to use against Russia, and that Ukraine without Russian support is merely a giant Moldova. It is still completely oriented for trade with Russia.

Russia itself is a giant Moldavia. And unless Russia, Ukraine is still predominantly white since it doesn't forcefully incorporate independent Nations (like Chechnya) while playing the Self-Determination card for their own interest groups on i.e. Crimea. Have a check about the demographic developments and the Muslim population. Muh multicultural Empire, sure. It's just an iteration of Soviet Communist doctrine on top of the carcass of the Russian Empire.

At the end of the day both Nations are borderline broken. But when it comes to development, it should be easy to pick a favorite. A multicultural, globalist, Eurasian Empire that works purely by force versus a free and independent European(!) nation trying to embrace their native culture. It's really a no brainer and always fascinating how people come with convoluted arguments against it.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2019 07:42 PM by reciproke.)
06-25-2019 07:35 PM
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Knight of Malta Offline
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Post: #2581
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-25-2019 07:35 PM)reciproke Wrote:  
Quote:Except for the inconvenient fact that Kolomoisky and other oligarchs have openly admitted to funding Azov and other nationalist battalions.
In 2014. I've now made three posts about being that bizarre and bringing it up repeatedly. Is there actually a soviet agent school that teaches agents to repeat rhetorics until everyone believes it?

Quote:Not really, you're describing it too simplistically. Russia is a imperialist, not globalist.


Semantics, you whine about your Anglo-American Empire but fail to see the a different brand of the same phenomenon. Reason for this is probably because you are not living there and get your information from intellectual think tanks romanticizing their enemy's enemy.

No, I am from there. And yes, there is a difference.

Quote:You are continuing to play the game by their rules, rules that they can change as they desire. You will end up with the same sociopath mindset as our political caste if you don't already have it, to begin with.

Also heartily chuckle if you really think Russia is a stronghold against that. I've indicated enough that the same breed of Oligarchs is active there and you just continue your act. Face it, you're bonkers and probably not even getting paid for being it. At least prostitutes take money for their services.

Most of your points are just word games and nonsense.


Quote:Russia itself is a giant Moldavia. And unless Russia, Ukraine is still predominantly white since it doesn't forcefully incorporate independent Nations (like Chechnya) while playing the Self-Determination card for their own interest groups on i.e. Crimea. Have a check about the demographic developments and the Muslim population. Muh multicultural Empire, sure. It's just an iteration of Soviet Communist doctrine on top of the carcass of the Russian Empire.

Russia is still predominantly white, with 80% ethnic Russian population, so I don't know why you are denying that. Ukraine does forcibly incorporate other nations, like the Hungarians in the west, Romanians in part of the south, and of course Russians in the east.

The Muslim population that's mostly concentrated in a few regions that they are native to?

The last sentence is also nonsense, the tsarist Russian Empire was the greatest civilisation in Eastern Europe.

Quote:At the end of the day both Nations are borderline broken. But when it comes to development, it should be easy to pick a favorite. A multicultural, globalist, Eurasian Empire that works purely by force versus a free and independent European(!) nation trying to embrace their native culture. It's really a no brainer and always fascinating how people come with convoluted arguments against it.

Free to embrace gay rights, abortion, and become an open air brothel while trying to force a totally contrived artificial identity created by foreign powers to use for their convenience on others. Russia is also predominantly a European empire, since ethnic Russians are European racially and culturally. The amount of mental gymnastics the Ukrainian Azov types come up with to justify their delusions is really something.
06-25-2019 08:12 PM
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Post: #2582
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-25-2019 06:49 AM)reciproke Wrote:  
Quote:There is a Russian saying that perfectly summarizes all the hysteria and ranting of Russophobes, "The dog barks and the caravan moves on".

What exactly is a Russian? Technically, a Chechen would be a Russian, too. The Millions of Muslim immigrants living in the big Russian cities are Russians. Or are you talking about ethnic Russians? Like they are some kind of cattle that can be moved around due to formal semantics, regardless if they want to be ruled by the Kreml or not?
What nowadays constitutes Russia has only been recently be called so. Previously it was known as the Principality of Moscow, an ally of the Mongols, that violently conquered former Rus' territory and incorporated a lot of asian tartaric peoples. The actual descendants of the Rus would be Ukraine (Ruthenians/Russinians) and Belarus.

To hide this fact, the Russian Federation promotes a soviet like civic patriotism and hides behind terms like "Russophobes" against criticism, a term that useful idiots willingly use in their rhetorics while not seeing the big picture that the big Russian cities are full of noneuropeans invaders - unlike in i.e. Ukraine, which is still predominantly white and dedicatedly anti-communist. This also isn't an ethnic conflict between Russians and Ukrainians. Anyone who thinks so has bought in to the PR machine, probably not even getting paid, which is maybe the biggest PR stunt ever.

This is a conflict about a brand of Eurasian Globalism employed by corrupt Oligarchs vs. Freedom and Self-Determination of Europeans. Who finances what side and what point and who benefits from playing bidding games doesn't take away from the cause, NATO yada yada, EU yadayada. Only Sociopaths and moral relativists think in these opportunistic terms. But I genuinely believe that it's mostly ignorance that let's you embrace this false dichotomy like your life depends on it.

This explains a few things about your perspective and exactly the kind of attitudes I thought you may have.

It also means that it's pointless to discuss anything about Ukraine right now since your basic premises about Russia and its history are fundamentally wrong. Your conclusions are completely different from everybody elses on this matter because your basic assumptions are completely different.

Let me unravel your premises and explain what's wrong with them one by one. A Russian is a Slav who comes from East Europe or North East Europe and has all the things associated to them such as Eastern Orthodox religion, a distinct language, culture and so on. A Chechen can only qualify as a Russian in a civic nationalist sense. The same applies for all the other minorities in Russia. They can only be considered Russian because they live in the political entity of Russia. It's clear that ethnic Russians exist, they're a part of the larger Slavic civilizational/cultural group and they are a thing. Such a distinction exists in Russia contrary to how hard it may be for you to believe.

Let's put aside the fact that you incorrectly state Moscow and Saint Petersburg are overrun by Muslim migrants because the truth is that they're not and you're vastly overstating the importance of a few guest workers from Central Asia and Chechnya (There are actually as many if not more guest workers from Moldavia, Ukraine, Serbia, Armenia, Georgia and so on). Moscow and Saint Petersburg are far more ethnically Russian than London or Paris are ethnically English or French respectively. Frankly, Russia as a whole has its ethnic Russian population constitute a majority much more firmly than European Americans constitute any form of majority in the USA. In fact, contrary to official statistics, European Americans are probably already or on the verge of becoming a minority (If they're not already minorities) in their own countries. Ethnic Russians are a much more solid and secure majority compared to European Americans in their own country. The demographic position of ethnic Russians compared to Americans and West Europeans will literally only prove itself to be more superior as each day passes.

Now we come to your take on Russian history which is shallow, biased and completely not objective. It is literally the root from which your completely wrong understanding of Russia, East European history and the present come from.

You're basically stating that Russians are effectively some kind of Asiatic, Oriental, Mongol-Tatar sperm barbarians that where forcefully mongrelized and race-mixed from their apparently supposed Germano-Nordic origins as a result of the Tatar-Mongol invasions of the 13th century.

Putting aside your take on history for a moment, your premise is completely wrong because there is a significant amount of blonde haired Russians. In fact, if any genetic testing of the Russian population would be done, it would overwhelmingly prove that ethnic Russians have far less Asian DNA than you think. Russians are a majority Slav people that are very similar and close to other Slavic peoples' such as Bulgarians, Serbs, Ukranians, Belarussians and others. You would be shocked to find how similar Russians are with all of these people and that many of them actually fondly associate with Russians, just like Russians do with them.

Now, since i mentioned Serbs and Bulgarians you're probably thinking that they must also be some kind of Turko-Tatar sperms as well because they were ruled by the Ottoman Empire for several centuries. In fact, this brings up another point, why are you so bothered by Russians and don't really care at all about the Turks or Chinese even though both nations have a clearly Asiatic core element. Especially because Turkey is built upon the forced assimilation of European peoples such as Greeks, Armenians and Georgians (Then again, perhaps these peoples are all some form of Asiatics to you as well). Turkey is a country literally built upon the violent rape, mass murder and genocide of these peoples'. What you've described sounds like the formation of modern Turkey, not Russia.

The Mongol-Tatar invasions of the Rus lands were indeed devastating but claiming that extensive race-mixing and assimilation of the Slavic Russian ethnic element with the Mongol-Tatar Asiatics came about because of the invasions is a shaky argument that requires a lot of proof for it to be valid. Since the Mongols and Tatars where only good at raiding and incapable of establishing any permanent presence through an administrative, religions, cultural or other system anywhere, it means that assimilation and race-mixing could not occur on a large scale. You can't just use the fact that there where a bunch of raids and bandit expeditions where ethnic Russians where captured, killed and raped to say that extensive race-mixing could happen in such a chaotic fashion. It's completely wrong. Such a process takes several centuries to occur and succeed. Again, you should look at Turkey to witness an indisputable example where this sort of thing actually happened.

The principality of Rus fought bravely and valiantly against the Tatars and Mongols. You're literally willfiully ignoring things like the Battle of Kulikovo. You're also willfully ignoring the long list of Russo-Turkish wars that Russians have fought to free their Slavic brothers from Turkish and Muslims rule. You're also ignoring the disgraceful and hypocritical conduct of Western Germanic entities towards Russians and Slavs in these centuries. You're ignoring the fact that the Western Germanic demonic papists decided to take advantage of the Mongol-Tatar invasions of the 13th century to impose Catholicism on Russians. Of course, like always, the Russians sent them packing at the Battle of Lake Peipus (also known as Battle of the Ice). Since the Battle of Lake Peipus was at the same time the Mongol invasions took in full swing, It just shows that the Germanic Teutonic Order tried to take advantage of Russian weakness, not help the Russians at all. Also, in the 19th century during all the Russo-Turkish Wars i mentioned, Britain and France literally went so far as to side with the Turks against the Russians in the Crimean War for their selfish geo-political interests. But hey, who cares about the fact that Russia was trying to help millions of European Christians free themselves from Muslim Turkish rule, because after all, according to you, they're all just Turko-Mongol-Tartar sperms anyway right???

Your interpretation of more than a thousand years worth of history about Russia and Eastern Europe is completely wrong. You're still stuck believing a bunch of Russophobic gibberish from 19th century West Europe and America. All the arguments that Russians are some kind of Asiatic-Orientals who used to be Germanic-Nordics and they need to be reincorporated into Europe to be saved from their Asiaticness comes from the Vatican and various Western states to justify their imperialism and aggression against not just Russians, but all East Europeans. This is the kind of arrogant domineering attitude that some Westerners have towards Russia. This is exactly the kind of thing that led to WW1 and Austria's contemptuous treatment of Serbia. It's one of the things that's literally destroying Europe right now because many Europeans are obsessed with hating on Russia and fighting it when they're literally getting replaced right under their noses. Since your profile says you're from Germany, this is especially bizarre and absurd. You're literally more bothered by Russia and Ukraine than all the migrants in Cologne raping your women, killing your men, replacing you and transforming your country into a Third World dump lol.

Arguing with you about the current events in Ukraine is completely pointless. Your conclusions about the current situation in Ukraine are completely ridiculous because your understanding of 1000 years worth of Russian and East European history is ridiculous. You need to reread, and in greater detail, the history of Russia and East Europe for the past 1000 years to get fundamental facts clear before even discussing anything to do with the present.

"And guess what, you might have a feeling that youre destined for something else, and that any day now it will dawn on you, but it will remain that, just a feeling that you use as a crutch to never focus on anything", Beirut.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2019 12:21 AM by KnjazMihailo.)
06-26-2019 12:15 AM
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reciproke Offline
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Post: #2583
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-26-2019 12:15 AM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  snip

I didn't even mention the ethnic Mongol/Tartar Argument but was talking about the Russian/Rossyanin distinction, so your complete post is a massive strawman I don't even bother to unravel. However, the amount of effort you are putting into this is really impressive for an unpaid intern.

Quote:Since your profile says you're from Germany, this is especially bizarre and absurd. You're literally more bothered by Russia and Ukraine than all the migrants in Cologne raping your women, killing your men, replacing you and transforming your country into a Third World dump lol.

>Implying

What a hilarious deduction. Exactly that's the reason I should be against a multicultural Empire that allows free travel between opposite cultures.

Also, Whataboutism. Wasn't that popular in the Soviet Union? Nice to see traditions being continued.

Quote:Let's put aside the fact that you incorrectly state Moscow and Saint Petersburg are overrun by Muslim migrants because the truth is that they're not and you're vastly overstating the importance of a few guest workers from Central Asia and Chechnya

...just few Millions that every actual Russian dislikes...

Let's check the demographic development of Russia and it has the same phenomenon as Western countries: Fewer whites, more Muslims.

[Image: 640px-Russia_natural_population_growth_rates_2015.PNG]

The Ethnic Russians in typical Russian locations are on a decline. Dagestanis, Chechens, Tartars, Tuvans Native Siberians, Ugric Tribes are on a rise.

What a great multicultural Empire.

Quote: Moscow and Saint Petersburg are far more ethnically Russian than London or Paris are ethnically English or French respectively.

Whataboutism

Quote:Russophobes

Buzzword, what a great Psy Ops similar to the term "homophobe" implying an Element of irrationality. I actually like Russians very much and I know a lot of Russians that actively support Ukraine and are aware of their own demographic and political issues that enslaves them and replaces them with third world immigrants. I guess they must be Russophobes, too.

Good we have you to bless us with a deeper understanding of history.

For anyone doubting me, just talk to a real Russian Nationalist that isn't a drunk Vatnik and has to live with the suppression on a daily basis. At the end of the day, nothing else is to be said.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2019 04:56 AM by reciproke.)
06-26-2019 04:20 AM
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Post: #2584
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-26-2019 04:20 AM)reciproke Wrote:  The Ethnic Russians in typical Russian locations are on a decline. Dagestanis, Chechens, Tartars, Tuvans Native Siberians, Ugric Tribes are on a rise.

Considering their populations are mainly concentrated in several regions that they are native to and their numbers are still small compared to ethnic Russians, it's not significant. Certainly, the population decline overall is not a good thing and more effort needs to be made to reverse it, however the idea that Russians will get displaced in Russia is overblown and is usually overhyped by malicious Eastern European nationalists who are dumb or Western alt right people who don't know what they are talking about.

Even if Russians dropped from 80% to, say, 40% or 30% of the population tomorrow morning, it still wouldn't be the end. Look at the German domination of Habsburg/Austro-Hungarian Empire for centuries, where the Germans were usually no more than 25% of the population but the country still had a distinctly German character and dominant culture.

Quote: What a great multicultural Empire.
Another thing to keep in mind that the current government is still structured by the constitution and legal system that was literally written by Americans and liberals in the early 1990s. While I agree with most of Vladimir Putin's foreign policy, he has not gone far enough on domestic policy. He should have abolished the current system entirely and restored the Romanov monarchy already. It is my personal hope that towards the end of his term he may pull a General Franco and still restore the monarchy.

Quote:
Quote: Moscow and Saint Petersburg are far more ethnically Russian than London or Paris are ethnically English or French respectively.
Whataboutism

You don't know what whataboutism means.

Quote:
Quote:Russophobes

Buzzword, what a great Psy Ops similar to the term "homophobe" implying an Element of irrationality. I actually like Russians very much and I know a lot of Russians that actively support Ukraine and are aware of their own demographic and political issues that enslaves them and replaces them with third world immigrants. I guess they must be Russophobes, too.

Good we have you to bless us with a deeper understanding of history.

For anyone doubting me, just talk to a real Russian Nationalist that isn't a drunk Vatnik and has to live with the suppression on a daily basis. At the end of the day, nothing else is to be said.

A real Russian Nationalist is an imperialist like myself. The so called "nationalists" who fight in Ukraine on the side of the Jewish oligarchy and Anglo ZOG empire--low IQ football hooligans and stereotypical skinheads for the most part--are committing treason and should be punished accordingly. Can't really call oneself a nationalist while at the same time advocating for policies that would lead to the disintegration of one's nation, not to mention fighting under the flag of the Anglo American Zionist Empire.
06-26-2019 04:56 PM
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Post: #2585
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-26-2019 04:20 AM)reciproke Wrote:  
Quote: Moscow and Saint Petersburg are far more ethnically Russian than London or Paris are ethnically English or French respectively.

Whataboutism

If you think that the migrant invasion of Europe is a whataboutism or some kind of Kremlin psy-op, you're a lost cause. You literally don't even know what is happening in Germany, France or Britain right now, let alone are you going to know what's happening in Ukraine and Russia.

The migrant invasion of Europe is a fact that is objectively true right now.

It's an objectively true fact that right now ethnic Russians are a majority in St Petersburg and Moscow compared to ethnic English in London and ethnic French in Paris who are already minorities in both cities. You may dislike it and cry "Soviet trick" as much as you like, but right now this is as true as 1+1 = 2.

This isn't an alternate scenario, this is the reality that is here right now. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it just proves how desperate you are to deny reality. You literally need to go to Paris and London right now. There is a reason why London is called "Londonistan" by native English people.

Frankly, as much as i was condescending and gloating about the migrant invasion in my previous comments, it's actually really quite sad. I literally can't imagine something more pathetic than some German that instead of being bothered by getting replaced out of existence by migrants, spends his time hero worshiping Bandersits, Dmitry Yarosh and all his Azov battalion urban thugs. I suppose we all have our ways to escape and distract ourselves from the stresses of reality from time to time. Still, yours is probably the most pathetic way that exists on the whole planet.

The other posters on this thread have schooled you quite well about the dynamics of Jewkraine anyway. You can have fun fantasizing about Chechen rape bands flooding Moscow, your glorious leader Dmitry Yarosh and his Azov cannon fodder while in reality migrant bands flood Germany and West Europe, the DNR and LNR will continue to exist, and Russia's position on the world stage will only improve with each passing day.

"And guess what, you might have a feeling that youre destined for something else, and that any day now it will dawn on you, but it will remain that, just a feeling that you use as a crutch to never focus on anything", Beirut.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2019 09:13 PM by KnjazMihailo.)
06-26-2019 09:13 PM
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Lika Offline
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Post: #2586
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-26-2019 09:13 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  I literally can't imagine something more pathetic than some German that instead of being bothered by getting replaced out of existence by migrants, spends his time hero worshiping Bandersits, Dmitry Yarosh and all his Azov battalion urban thugs. I suppose we all have our ways to escape and distract ourselves from the stresses of reality from time to time. Still, yours is probably the most pathetic way that exists on the whole planet.

I would summarize the Ukrainian issue like that:

If Russia is too dominant and integrated with Ukraine, there will be slightly more russophone non white immigrants in Ukraine but there will be a drastic economic improvement.

If the West / NATO is too dominant in Ukraine as is the case right now, there will be further economic decline and plundering of all economic assets including people's houses and incredible hardships for the population overburden by ever increasing utilities prices + a progressive invasion by non white immigrants and "refugees" and the submission to globo homo values.

The best for the population in my opinion would be an independent Ukraine which gives up on some of its lost territory, stops the war and accepts two state languages for fast economic recovery.

"Dans l'examen de la beauté d'une femme, la première chose que j'écarte sont les jambes" Giacomo Casanova
06-27-2019 03:43 AM
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reciproke Offline
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Post: #2587
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-26-2019 09:13 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  
(06-26-2019 04:20 AM)reciproke Wrote:  
Quote: Moscow and Saint Petersburg are far more ethnically Russian than London or Paris are ethnically English or French respectively.

Whataboutism
You literally don't even know what is happening in Germany, France or Britain right now, let alone are you going to know what's happening in Ukraine and Russia.

I know, but this thread isn't about it. You're derailing the topic with the "no u".

Quote:The migrant invasion of Europe is a fact that is objectively true right now.

Sophistry. No one doubted it, you're just arguing against an imaginary strawman. Stop changing the topic.

Quote:It's an objectively true fact that right now ethnic Russians are a majority in St Petersburg and Moscow

Technically, even the 1-2 Million illegal immigrants in Moscow are still a minority. Semantics that obfuscate a systemic issue.

Quote:This isn't an alternate scenario, this is the reality that is here right now. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it just proves how desperate you are to deny reality. You literally need to go to Paris and London right now. There is a reason why London is called "Londonistan" by native English people.

This isn't a thread about London or the native English. What I do or not do isn't part of this discussion. If you would have stalked me a bit better you'd know that I take part in a lot of political discussions here.

Quote:Frankly, as much as i was condescending and gloating about the migrant invasion in my previous comments, it's actually really quite sad. I literally can't imagine something more pathetic than some German that instead of being bothered by getting replaced out of existence by migrants, spends his time hero worshiping Bandersits, Dmitry Yarosh and all his Azov battalion urban thugs. I suppose we all have our ways to escape and distract ourselves from the stresses of reality from time to time. Still, yours is probably the most pathetic way that exists on the whole planet.

Judging from your emotional meltdown I must hit a soft spot. Let's check:

- Strawman
- Ad Hominem
- "No u"
- False Dichotomy

And no, I don't have too much skin in the game. For me, it doesn't take a lot of effort to see what's right and what's not. It doesn't even take a big part of my time, probably unlike your carefully orchestrated posts trying to make a jingoist Empire hip. On top of that, it's cheap source of entertainment, and you as the unpaid intern are doing most of the work dismantling yourself with logical fallacies and emotional derailing.

Let's stalk you, too: Home country - Australia. You like your Empire so much that you prefer to live in an actual "Anglo Zionist" first world country. Imagine my shock.

You can carry on being an unpaid intern for a corrupt Mafia for all I care.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2019 05:21 AM by reciproke.)
06-27-2019 04:41 AM
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Post: #2588
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-25-2019 07:32 AM)reciproke Wrote:  
(06-25-2019 07:07 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  Reciproke ; I am open to dialogue but facts are facts
Kolomoyski has a treble citizenship ; Israel Cyprus Ukraine .
He and his guys had the power to storm city buildings in Dnipropetrovsk area during the crisis .
He also has frozen all Crimean accounts after Russia taking over and stole the money .
Sergei litvinov from dnipro bataillon admitted kolomoyskiy was the payer to finance murders.
Kolomoyskiy controls Aidar ; Dnipro ; Azov and Donbass bataillons.
In the case of Aidar ; we know their links with Parubiy.
I don't even need to say what I saw with my own eyes in football stadiums or at supermarket where people from Azov were forcing people who donate ; inducing old women and young women or resourceless men...
On another note :

Hunter Biden ( the son of Joe ) has been named to.the board of directors of Burisma Holdings ; drilling gas in Ukraine . The deal is protected by Us debate bill 2277.

Kolomoyskiy owns Burisma Holdings ; which is registered in Cyprus.

He is also worth 6 billion dollars and has created the Jewish European parliament .....( With his buddy Vadim Rabinovich)

Only a fool cannot see the role of the dangerous radical Jew Kolomoyskiy in selling Ukraine from the Russian mafia s hands to the NATO cartel .

The Ukrainian conflict is the illustration of the fight between two Jewish clans ; the Rothschild/Rockefeller clan ( I would call this clan NATO/domination without sharing ) and the Lubavich clan ( for a globalist multipolar world ) close to Putin
Young Christians are paying the price daily for choosing a side ; which is explains the pathologic Russophobia from English speaking and European media .
Btw I'm not sure why you talks about neobolshevism.

"Sorry guys, I know you want freedom and to defend your country, but at some point through some corners we received funding by a jew. Lay down your weapons, the last thing we want is people on the Internet to think we are into that".

By your logic, America controls the Taliban, because the CIA funded them in the 70s. This isn't how it works.

By your logic enemies could discredit anyone like that by transferring money to them. From the outside, they are clearly funded by the enemy.

Again, all voluntary units are part of the regular army that is financed with tax money. What you are quoting is a tiny period in 2014/2015. What's your point?

And naturally, they use all the help they can get. What would you do instead? Roll over and die? Ridiculous. You are using a false dichotomy here - who do you think supports the other side, sometimes at the same time?

I don't know what to answer you. I don't really understand what is your point. I know that things are not black and white , but ultimately I am not happy of the massacres of innocent christians. I want this conflict to end.
Russia in its structure and its morals (no pro gay pro trans propaganda) is not perfect but seems better to me than the anglo-zog cartel...
I have 3 kids and dont want Pride Month
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2019 08:38 AM by Polniy_Sostav.)
06-27-2019 08:37 AM
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KnjazMihailo Offline
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Post: #2589
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
[/quote]
I know, but this thread isn't about it. You're derailing the topic with the "no u".
[/quote]

This isn't derailing the topic with "no u". It's taking the international context in which the Ukraine conflict is happening into account. Ukraine and Russia don't exist in a vacuum no matter how much you may desperately want them to. The fact that you would like to treat the topic as such is only proof of how narrow and shallow your worldview is. It also means that you're literally incapable of connecting the dots and seeing how this conflicts fits in with the wider world.

This is literally the only frame through which it is even theoretically possible to see this conflict as one where glorious leader Dmitry Yarosh with his Banderists and Azov battalion is a hero fighting for "Ukrainian sovereignty" against evil Russian "Eurasian Globalists".

Of course, you probably believe that the Georgians in 2008 with their glorious leader Mikheil Saakashvili were also defending themselves against the evil Russian "Eurasian Globalists" when they began the 2008 Russo-Georgian War by attacking and bombing Tskhinvali, killing Russian civilians and peacekeepers. Of course, the evil Russian Euarsian Globalists then committed aggression against sovereign Georgia when they invaded Georgia to impose their Eurasian Globalism upon Georgia. They absolutely didn't bring in their army in order to secure the well-being of ethnic Russians in Abkhazia and South Ossetia but in order to conquer Georgia and subject them to Eurasian Globalist slavery. The Georgian military was also totally not sponsored, trained and supplied by the US military, NATO and Jewish oligarchs or had anything at all to do with them.

Of course, in 2014 the heroic Dmitry Yarosh led the Ukrainian people in a glorious revolution against the evil Eurasian Globalist Viktor Yanukovych. Of course, the Maidan Revolution was absolutely not sponsored by the US embassy in Ukraine, the US State department and Jewish oligarchs. Absolutely no weapons, supplies or money was provided to the Ukrainian Banderists, Dmitry Yarosh and Maidan Revolutionaries from NATO, Jewish oligarchs and the USA. Also, the heroic Dmitry Yarosh with his Azov Battalion and Ukrainian Army went to liberate Eastern Ukraine from the evil Russian Eurasian Globalists who again had the audacity to exist inside of a foreign political entity just like in Georgia ... tard

For you, Ukraine and Russia simply have to exist in a vacuum disconnected from the world because your whole view of the situation falls apart when it comes into contact with facts and reality.

[/quote]
Let's stalk you, too: Home country - Australia. You like your Empire so much that you prefer to live in an actual "Anglo Zionist" first world country. Imagine my shock.

You can carry on being an unpaid intern for a corrupt Mafia for all I care.

[/quote]

This then brings us to where you use the "no u" argument. Of course, if i'm not a "Kremlin bot" or "Vatnik", then i'm an "unpaid intern".

To clarify, people don't choose where they're born. I haven't spent my whole life in Australia. Plus, regardless of what you say, i intend to correct my "mistake" and relocate from here in a few years time when i sort a few things out.

Of course, you're implying that just because I happen to live in the West means I'm a hypocrite for not supporting Dmitry Yarosh, his Banderists and the Anglo-Zionist Empire.

In that regard though, is literally everyone who lives in the West and doesn't support the Banderists and their Anglo-Zionist masters but is instead sympathetic to Russia a hypocrite? So, are all the people who voted for Brexit in Britain and Americans who voted for Donald Trump in order to oppose their Anglo-Zionist masters, internationalism and globalism hypocrites, because they live in Britain and the USA? Every British Brexit voter who sent a postal vote from inside the continental EU and lives there is a hypocrite because they live in the EU right?

After all, it's not like there aren't any Anglo-Saxons who sympathize with Russia anyway. tard

In fact, there's even a literal and legitimate Neo-Nazi called Andrew Anglin who supports the ehtnic Russians in East Ukraine and is in general sympathetic to Russia in many ways. He has even literally stated that it is, "the correct moral position" to support the Russians of East Ukraine. If you doubt a brief Wikipedia citation, you can go ahead and search 'Ukraine Daily Stormer" on google and view all the articles he's written ever since 2014 on Ukraine. You'll see that he at first starts his coverage unsure of what's fully happening but quickly realizes what is truly happening. Same thing also applies for searching "Russia Daily Stormer" as well where he doesn't blindly worship Russia and states that there are things which are problematic about it. It's actually an insult towards real Nazis to call Banderists "Nazis".

Is Andrew Anglin a hypocrite for criticizing the Anglo-Zionist Empire (to him it's more Jewish than anything else)? Is he an "unpaid intern for a corrupt mafia"?

Perhaps maybe you should read his articles on the matter since you're probably from the Nazi realm of the internet anyway. If you had any sense for your own interests as an ethnic German, you too would also be opposed to the Anglo-Zionist Empire since it's Euro-Atlantic-Globalist-Jewish elites are the ones that are flooding you with migrants and replacing you as a native German. That is, instead of doing moral grandstanding over others who are capable of understanding this concept unlike you.

Of course, it's important to note that you've been completely civil, polite and cultured in this discussion and haven't used ad hominems at all.

[/quote]
Ah, was waiting for the evil nazi Junta electric boogalo . It's pretty easy to spot the Internet Vatnik Brigade nowadays by playing the Vatnik Bingo, since they are spouting the same "alternative facts" as always.
[/quote]

[/quote]
Sorry to interrupt your circle jerk
[/quote]

[/quote]
Whew lad, that meme is tough to get rid of.
[/quote]

[/quote]
The Russian Federation is just a different kind of Globalism and if you think her Oligarchs are a different "kind of breed" then whew, you're totally bonkers.
[/quote]

[/quote]
In 2014. I've now made three posts about being that bizarre and bringing it up repeatedly. Is there actually a soviet agent school that teaches agents to repeat rhetorics until everyone believes it?
[/quote]

[/quote]
Heartily chuckle. I just let that masturbation fantasy sink in.
[/quote]

[/quote]
You are continuing to play the game by their rules, rules that they can change as they desire. You will end up with the same sociopath mindset as your political caste if you don't already have it, to begin with.
[/quote]

[/quote]
Also heartily chuckle if you really think Russia is a stronghold against that. I've indicated enough that the same breed of Oligarchs is active there and you just continue your act. Face it, you're bonkers and probably not even getting paid for being it. At least prostitutes take money for their services.
[/quote]

[/quote]
Russia itself is a giant Moldavia. And unless Russia, Ukraine is still predominantly white since it doesn't forcefully incorporate independent Nations (like Chechnya) while playing the Self-Determination card for their own interest groups on i.e. Crimea. Have a check about the demographic developments and the Muslim population. Muh multicultural Empire, sure.
[/quote]

[/quote]
I didn't even mention the ethnic Mongol/Tartar Argument but was talking about the Russian/Rossyanin distinction, so your complete post is a massive strawman I don't even bother to unravel. However, the amount of effort you are putting into this is really impressive for an unpaid intern.
[/quote]

[/quote]
Judging from your emotional meltdown I must hit a soft spot.
[/quote]

[/quote]
It doesn't even take a big part of my time, probably unlike your carefully orchestrated posts trying to make a jingoist Empire hip. On top of that, it's cheap source of entertainment, and you as the unpaid intern are doing most of the work dismantling yourself with logical fallacies and emotional derailing.
[/quote]

[/quote]
You can carry on being an unpaid intern for a corrupt Mafia for all I care.
[/quote]

What civil and polite discussion without any ad hominems on your part whatsoever!

Now we come to the point where I talked about history.
[/quote]
What nowadays constitutes Russia has only been recently be called so. Previously it was known as the Principality of Moscow, an ally of the Mongols, that violently conquered former Rus' territory and incorporated a lot of asian tartaric peoples. The actual descendants of the Rus would be Ukraine (Ruthenians/Russinians) and Belarus.
[/quote]

[/quote]
I didn't even mention the ethnic Mongol/Tartar Argument but was talking about the Russian/Rossyanin distinction, so your complete post is a massive strawman I don't even bother to unravel. However, the amount of effort you are putting into this is really impressive for an unpaid intern.
[/quote]

My response with the whole bit about history was an obvious reply to your shallow interpretation of history. It is literally a direct reply to the assumption buried under your comments. You made a nice attempt to frame this as me engaging in a strawman. Of course though, my apologies, history is irrelevant, it has absolutely no impact on the present, it all happened exactly as you say it happened, and only your interpretation is correct.

[/quote]
This also isn't an ethnic conflict between Russians and Ukrainians. Anyone who thinks so has bought in to the PR machine, probably not even getting paid, which is maybe the biggest PR stunt ever.

This is a conflict about a brand of Eurasian Globalism employed by corrupt Oligarchs vs. Freedom and Self-Determination of Europeans. Who finances what side and what point and who benefits from playing bidding games doesn't take away from the cause, NATO yada yada, EU yadayada. Only Sociopaths and moral relativists think in these opportunistic terms. But I genuinely believe that it's mostly ignorance that let's you embrace this false dichotomy like your life depends on it.
[/quote]

Of course, there's absolutely no ethnic conflict whatsoever happening between Russians and Ukrainians in East Ukraine right now. The fact that the Russian language is illegal in Ukraine is irrelevant. Dmitry Yarosh, the Ukrainian Army and all Banderists have so much love and affection for ethnic Russians that they are literally sending their armies and fighting an open war to crush the ethnic Russian DNR and LNR republics ... tard

Of course though, the Russian population of East Ukraine has been brainwashed by the Kremlin and evil Eurasian Globalists to fight for their ethnic interests in Ukraine and have all been tricked into distrusting the glorious Dmitry Yarosh and the humane Azov Battalion right? tard

They should just surrender themselves to Dmitry Yarosh and the Ukrainian Army. Especially their civilian population. After all, the Russians can completely trust that the merciful Dmitry Yarosh won't harm their civilian population in any way shape or form at all right? tard

Oh and of course, the Banderists like Dmitry Yarosh are sovereign actors just like Mikheil Saakashvili with his Georgians in 2008 and totally not working for Euro-Atlantic globalists and internationalists who are the same ones flooding Europe with migrants right now. The migrants and Banderists are absolutely not backed by the same masters at all. Of course, all that talk is just "NATO yada yada, EU yadayada". It's pure sociopathy, moral relativism and opportunism to even think that Dmitry Yarosh and the Banderists are puppets of Jewish oligarchs, NATO and the USA. tard

Seriously though. What about the ethnic self-determination and freedom of Russians in Ukraine? Are they not Europeans who have a right to that?

[/quote]
And unless Russia, Ukraine is still predominantly white since it doesn't forcefully incorporate independent Nations (like Chechnya) while playing the Self-Determination card for their own interest groups on i.e. Crimea. Have a check about the demographic developments and the Muslim population. Muh multicultural Empire, sure. It's just an iteration of Soviet Communist doctrine on top of the carcass of the Russian Empire.
[/quote]

Only a person with a severe case of cognitive dissonance could seriously write something like this.

First you state that Russia forcefully incorporates independent nations like Chechnya, yet it's already been proven that Ukraine does the same to Romanians, Hungarians and Poles besides Russians. Also, Chechnya has existed as a bunch of tribal federations and bands throughout its whole history, never as a nation in the serious sense of the word "nation". Of course, the same applies for Ukraine of course despite how much you may try and spin history. Then you claim that the Russians are playing the "Self-Determination card for their own interest group" while you've previously stated that the Ukraine conflict is about the, "Freedom and Self Determination of Europeans" where the Ukranians are fighting for it against, "a brand of Eurasian Globalism employed by corrupt Oligarchs".

No hypocrisy or self-contradictions at all? Are you capable of honest self-reflection at all?

Then you state that the current Russian federation is, "an iteration of Soviet Communist doctrine on top of the carcass of the Russian Empire". Yet previously you stated that:

[/quote]
Also heartily chuckle if you really think Russia is a stronghold against that. I've indicated enough that the same breed of Oligarchs is active there and you just continue your act.
[/quote]

How can Russia be "an iteration of Soviet Communist doctrine on top of the carcass of the Russian Empire" and yet have, "the same breed of Oligarchs is active there"???

This is literally cognitive dissonance at its peak.

You haven't even proven how this, "same breed of Oligarchs is active there". Literally all the evidence points to the conclusion that Putin has managed to expel and subdue the oligarchs or reduce their power significantly. It's on you as the accuser to prove that Putin and Russia are beholden to and puppets of "Eurasian Globalist" oligarchs just like they were in the 1990's. The burden of proof is always on the accuser.

[/quote]
Judging from your emotional meltdown I must hit a soft spot. Let's check:

- Strawman
- Ad Hominem
- "No u"
- False Dichotomy

And no, I don't have too much skin in the game. For me, it doesn't take a lot of effort to see what's right and what's not. It doesn't even take a big part of my time, probably unlike your carefully orchestrated posts trying to make a jingoist Empire hip. On top of that, it's cheap source of entertainment, and you as the unpaid intern are doing most of the work dismantling yourself with logical fallacies and emotional derailing.

[/quote]

Judging from your cognitive dissonance and increasingly personal insults from the very start, I must've hit your soft spot. Let's check:

- No "u"
- Cognitive Dissonance
- Ad Hominems
- Weak and false assumptions

Of course, just as your Banderist fanboying is getting debunked by reality and facts, it's very easy and convenient to say you don't have, "too much skin in the game"

I actually agree with you, "it doesn't take a lot of effort to see what's right and what's not". To a degree you are right though. People like you aren't worthy of serious discussion with these issues. I genuinely am a fool for engaging in a serious effort to have this discussion with you only for you to mock me as an "unpaid intern". The Russians are perfectly capable of defending themselves and they will win in the long term anyway, regardless of whatever Banderist fanboys like you say or do. Over the coming years, they will begin to disappear and slowly but gradually fade away (maybe even literally, since you're from Germany).

Again, for all i care, you can have fun with your Banderist fanboying and Dmitry Yarosh hero worship. The Russian saying that i previously used still applies, "The dog barks and the caravan moves on".

"And guess what, you might have a feeling that youre destined for something else, and that any day now it will dawn on you, but it will remain that, just a feeling that you use as a crutch to never focus on anything", Beirut.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2019 12:49 AM by KnjazMihailo.)
06-28-2019 12:36 AM
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #2590
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Many of the claims on both sides here are pure fantasy.

The Russian language is not illegal in Ukraine. I speak it every day in the capital city, as do most of its inhabitants, without any problems at all. It was briefly outlawed in Lviv, for 2 years, and was restricted to business and public institutions, before the law was repealed. It never attempted to govern private conversations between two individuals. It was misguided, recognised as such, and withdrawn.

There is a new law being introduced currently, which governs all public institutions, mandating the use of Ukrainian. Personally I feel it is excessively restrictive. It has its merits, but should really be limited to the institutions of government and any interactions with it.

The use of language as a weapon/tool to divide goes back to Yukashenko and his electioneering - dividing Ukraine into regions based on language, and suggesting the Russian speaking parts were second and third class participants in the electoral system. Language as an issue between the people of Ukraine was his creation, and it has wrought a great deal of division and unhappiness. It was a fairly evil and cynical thing to do. Smart for winning elections, but the consequences have been severe.

Beyond that, there is a complete failure to understand how Russian propaganda is executed and how their special forces operate on the ground in places like Ukraine, Georgia etc. The Russian propaganda efforts in Crimea and the Donbass began, if they ever really ceased, almost as soon as communism collapsed. They intensified after Yeltsin was deposed as Putin came to power. Putin was obviously a KGB guy, and during the Glasnost and Perestroika times Gorbachev was essentially operating in the face of extreme resistance from the KGB, who wanted to take a much tougher line on the dissolution of the Soviet Union, which they wanted to retain in tact by force.

Fundamentally, Putin believes in the reunification of the territories of the Soviet Union. This is widely acknowledged and not something he denies. There is an active and concerted, though not always well coordinated or planned, effort by the Russian state to regain what territory it can.

There is absolutely no question that Russian PSYOPs have been underway in Crimea, and the Donbass, for more than 20 years. Of course, many people in those regions, and across Ukraine, are ethnic Russians, and feel some ties to Russia anyway, so it's not straightforwardly Russian brainwashing, there is a legitimate sense of belonging at least in a lose sense to Russia for many Ukrainians. This is exacerbated amongst the older generation, as many of them experienced greater personal prosperity during the time of the Soviet Union. This happens to include the more Russic east, which was also one of the industrial powerhouses of the Soviet Union, and enjoyed many perks as a result.

There was, once Maidan began, a concerted campaign by Russian special forces and intelligence services across large swathes of the Ukrainian East. In Dnipro, Kharkiv, and Odessa, Russian special forces were actively engaged in causing widespread disruption and civil unrest. The 'little green men' were out on the streets beating people up, raping, and killing to create fear and distrust amongst the general populace. This was a deliberate psychological operation designed to create a sense of lawlessness. When this sense of lawlessness pervades, the population is ready to turn to any authority that can return order. The clear end goal of this operation was to ensure a grateful populace when Russian troops (or rebel troops, with a Russian command structure, as currently exists in the Donbass) moved in and took those cities.

There is also a very legitimate Russian grievance at the way they have been handled by the West. There have been olive branches over the years, and they have always come from Russia, and been rejected by the West. The West has had ample opportunity to take a different tack with Russia, and put itself on a more positive and constructive path. At the end of the Second World War, a decision was made to rebuild Germany, not to crush it completely, and this decision allowed the Germans to set themselves on a different path, and regain largely positive relations in a short space of time with countries it had previously been a brutal occupier of.

By contrast, when the Cold War ended, and in the time since, the West has not taken the many opportunities available to it to bring Russia into the fold, and engage in more constructive relations. There has undoubtedly been a huge failure of Western foreign policy towards Russia. The encroachment of NATO on Russia is hugely provocative, and often involves the West reneging on agreements it has made with the Russians, exacerbating the bad feeling. Russia is not without legitimate grievance. It is probably right to feel that the West is unwilling to be a friend, and often behaves like an enemy. You can make a very strong case that the current crisis in the East of Ukraine is the result of the typically poor European and American foreign policy that has characterised most of the last 20 years. I certainly don't believe there would be war in the East right now were it not for the aggressive expansionism, along lines Russia could not accept, that has had results that should have been predictable to any informed observer. The idea that Russia would surrender Crimea to Europe, and have it's navy blocked from accessing the Mediterranean was incredibly naive. Russia would have been fine to continue the status quo - access without ownership. But blocking that access to Crimea would be equivalent to the Turks closing the Bosphorus - an act of war. This has been an essential sea port and part of a larger Russian foreign policy for hundreds of years, and Europe and America were careless in their agitations.
06-28-2019 04:45 AM
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Post: #2591
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Hopefully I know how to quote properly here:

(06-28-2019 04:45 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Fundamentally, Putin believes in the reunification of the territories of the Soviet Union. This is widely acknowledged and not something he denies. There is an active and concerted, though not always well coordinated or planned, effort by the Russian state to regain what territory it can.

Proof? Putin clearly shows his disdain for Soviet Union in any of the interview one can find.

(06-28-2019 04:45 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  [b]There was, once Maidan began, a concerted campaign by Russian special forces and intelligence services across large swathes of the Ukrainian East. In Dnipro, Kharkiv, and Odessa, Russian special forces were actively engaged in causing widespread disruption and civil unrest. The 'little green men' were out on the streets beating people up, raping, and killing to create fear and distrust amongst the general populace. This was a deliberate psychological operation designed to create a sense of lawlessness. When this sense of lawlessness pervades, the population is ready to turn to any authority that can return order. The clear end goal of this operation was to ensure a grateful populace when Russian troops (or rebel troops, with a Russian command structure, as currently exists in the Donbass) moved in and took those cities.

Wait a minute....weren't little green men originally propagandized to be Russian professional soldiers which even the locals knew them to be...so.....they were raping, beating up and killing their own people only for more incoming professional Russian soldiers to liberate themselves from beating, raping and killing their own people! Wacko


(06-28-2019 04:45 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  By contrast, when the Cold War ended, and in the time since, the West has not taken the many opportunities available to it to bring Russia into the fold, and engage in more constructive relations. There has undoubtedly been a huge failure of Western foreign policy towards Russia. The encroachment of NATO on Russia is hugely provocative, and often involves the West reneging on agreements it has made with the Russians, exacerbating the bad feeling. Russia is not without legitimate grievance. It is probably right to feel that the West is unwilling to be a friend, and often behaves like an enemy. You can make a very strong case that the current crisis in the East of Ukraine is the result of the typically poor European and American foreign policy that has characterised most of the last 20 years. I certainly don't believe there would be war in the East right now were it not for the aggressive expansionism, along lines Russia could not accept, that has had results that should have been predictable to any informed observer. The idea that Russia would surrender Crimea to Europe, and have it's navy blocked from accessing the Mediterranean was incredibly naive. Russia would have been fine to continue the status quo - access without ownership. But blocking that access to Crimea would be equivalent to the Turks closing the Bosphorus - an act of war. This has been an essential sea port and part of a larger Russian foreign policy for hundreds of years, and Europe and America were careless in their agitations.


Here's a little known fact even among the highly intelligent and educated people on this forum:

Russia was an economic colony of USA, from 1991 until 1999. It was brought into the fold of USA. Russia was an American's bitch!

You can guess what changed in 1999.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2019 12:20 PM by ScannerLIV.)
06-28-2019 12:18 PM
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Post: #2592
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-28-2019 04:45 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Many of the claims on both sides here are pure fantasy.

The Russian language is not illegal in Ukraine. I speak it every day in the capital city, as do most of its inhabitants, without any problems at all. It was briefly outlawed in Lviv, for 2 years, and was restricted to business and public institutions, before the law was repealed. It never attempted to govern private conversations between two individuals. It was misguided, recognised as such, and withdrawn.

There is a new law being introduced currently, which governs all public institutions, mandating the use of Ukrainian. Personally I feel it is excessively restrictive. It has its merits, but should really be limited to the institutions of government and any interactions with it.

The use of language as a weapon/tool to divide goes back to Yukashenko and his electioneering - dividing Ukraine into regions based on language, and suggesting the Russian speaking parts were second and third class participants in the electoral system. Language as an issue between the people of Ukraine was his creation, and it has wrought a great deal of division and unhappiness. It was a fairly evil and cynical thing to do. Smart for winning elections, but the consequences have been severe.

Beyond that, there is a complete failure to understand how Russian propaganda is executed and how their special forces operate on the ground in places like Ukraine, Georgia etc. The Russian propaganda efforts in Crimea and the Donbass began, if they ever really ceased, almost as soon as communism collapsed. They intensified after Yeltsin was deposed as Putin came to power. Putin was obviously a KGB guy, and during the Glasnost and Perestroika times Gorbachev was essentially operating in the face of extreme resistance from the KGB, who wanted to take a much tougher line on the dissolution of the Soviet Union, which they wanted to retain in tact by force.

Fundamentally, Putin believes in the reunification of the territories of the Soviet Union. This is widely acknowledged and not something he denies. There is an active and concerted, though not always well coordinated or planned, effort by the Russian state to regain what territory it can.

There is absolutely no question that Russian PSYOPs have been underway in Crimea, and the Donbass, for more than 20 years. Of course, many people in those regions, and across Ukraine, are ethnic Russians, and feel some ties to Russia anyway, so it's not straightforwardly Russian brainwashing, there is a legitimate sense of belonging at least in a lose sense to Russia for many Ukrainians. This is exacerbated amongst the older generation, as many of them experienced greater personal prosperity during the time of the Soviet Union. This happens to include the more Russic east, which was also one of the industrial powerhouses of the Soviet Union, and enjoyed many perks as a result.

There was, once Maidan began, a concerted campaign by Russian special forces and intelligence services across large swathes of the Ukrainian East. In Dnipro, Kharkiv, and Odessa, Russian special forces were actively engaged in causing widespread disruption and civil unrest. The 'little green men' were out on the streets beating people up, raping, and killing to create fear and distrust amongst the general populace. This was a deliberate psychological operation designed to create a sense of lawlessness. When this sense of lawlessness pervades, the population is ready to turn to any authority that can return order. The clear end goal of this operation was to ensure a grateful populace when Russian troops (or rebel troops, with a Russian command structure, as currently exists in the Donbass) moved in and took those cities.

There is also a very legitimate Russian grievance at the way they have been handled by the West. There have been olive branches over the years, and they have always come from Russia, and been rejected by the West. The West has had ample opportunity to take a different tack with Russia, and put itself on a more positive and constructive path. At the end of the Second World War, a decision was made to rebuild Germany, not to crush it completely, and this decision allowed the Germans to set themselves on a different path, and regain largely positive relations in a short space of time with countries it had previously been a brutal occupier of.

By contrast, when the Cold War ended, and in the time since, the West has not taken the many opportunities available to it to bring Russia into the fold, and engage in more constructive relations. There has undoubtedly been a huge failure of Western foreign policy towards Russia. The encroachment of NATO on Russia is hugely provocative, and often involves the West reneging on agreements it has made with the Russians, exacerbating the bad feeling. Russia is not without legitimate grievance. It is probably right to feel that the West is unwilling to be a friend, and often behaves like an enemy. You can make a very strong case that the current crisis in the East of Ukraine is the result of the typically poor European and American foreign policy that has characterised most of the last 20 years. I certainly don't believe there would be war in the East right now were it not for the aggressive expansionism, along lines Russia could not accept, that has had results that should have been predictable to any informed observer. The idea that Russia would surrender Crimea to Europe, and have it's navy blocked from accessing the Mediterranean was incredibly naive. Russia would have been fine to continue the status quo - access without ownership. But blocking that access to Crimea would be equivalent to the Turks closing the Bosphorus - an act of war. This has been an essential sea port and part of a larger Russian foreign policy for hundreds of years, and Europe and America were careless in their agitations.

Bunch of unfounded nonsense in this post.

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06-28-2019 12:54 PM
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Post: #2593
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-27-2019 03:43 AM)Lika Wrote:  
(06-26-2019 09:13 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  I literally can't imagine something more pathetic than some German that instead of being bothered by getting replaced out of existence by migrants, spends his time hero worshiping Bandersits, Dmitry Yarosh and all his Azov battalion urban thugs. I suppose we all have our ways to escape and distract ourselves from the stresses of reality from time to time. Still, yours is probably the most pathetic way that exists on the whole planet.

I would summarize the Ukrainian issue like that:

If Russia is too dominant and integrated with Ukraine, there will be slightly more russophone non white immigrants in Ukraine but there will be a drastic economic improvement.

If the West / NATO is too dominant in Ukraine as is the case right now, there will be further economic decline and plundering of all economic assets including people's houses and incredible hardships for the population overburden by ever increasing utilities prices + a progressive invasion by non white immigrants and "refugees" and the submission to globo homo values.

The best for the population in my opinion would be an independent Ukraine which gives up on some of its lost territory, stops the war and accepts two state languages for fast economic recovery.

That is the right path also in my opinion. Great summary.

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06-28-2019 12:56 PM
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Post: #2594
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Quote:Beyond that, there is a complete failure to understand how Russian propaganda is executed and how their special forces operate on the ground in places like Ukraine, Georgia etc. The Russian propaganda efforts in Crimea and the Donbass began, if they ever really ceased, almost as soon as communism collapsed. They intensified after Yeltsin was deposed as Putin came to power. Putin was obviously a KGB guy, and during the Glasnost and Perestroika times Gorbachev was essentially operating in the face of extreme resistance from the KGB, who wanted to take a much tougher line on the dissolution of the Soviet Union, which they wanted to retain in tact by force.

There was, once Maidan began, a concerted campaign by Russian special forces and intelligence services across large swathes of the Ukrainian East. In Dnipro, Kharkiv, and Odessa, Russian special forces were actively engaged in causing widespread disruption and civil unrest. The 'little green men' were out on the streets beating people up, raping, and killing to create fear and distrust amongst the general populace. This was a deliberate psychological operation designed to create a sense of lawlessness. When this sense of lawlessness pervades, the population is ready to turn to any authority that can return order. The clear end goal of this operation was to ensure a grateful populace when Russian troops (or rebel troops, with a Russian command structure, as currently exists in the Donbass) moved in and took those cities.

Some of your post was reasonable, but this part is a bunch of nonsense that sounds like something straight out of Euromaidan Press. If Russia intended to annex eastern Ukraine, it would have been in a few days and there is literally no reason to go about it in a such a covert roundabout way. It would have been much better to move in the military openly and take over. Putin did not intend to annex Donetsk, Lugansk, etc. and that is a big strategic blunder on his part.
06-28-2019 01:12 PM
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Post: #2595
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Imagine all lives saved on both sides if Putin actually annexed the east.

The irony here is palpable

Yet Ukrainians think they are somehow mending off the relatively militarily might of Russia and protecting democracy in Europe.
06-28-2019 01:33 PM
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Post: #2596
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-28-2019 12:54 PM)Rocha Wrote:  Bunch of unfounded nonsense in this post.

It's the same dude that claims to be:

- an Abercrombie model
- bartender
- martial arts expert
- poosy slayer

And now we can add Geopolitical Expert on Eurasian Affairs to his resume Laugh
06-28-2019 10:31 PM
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Post: #2597
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-28-2019 10:31 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 12:54 PM)Rocha Wrote:  Bunch of unfounded nonsense in this post.

It's the same dude that claims to be:

- an Abercrombie model
- bartender
- martial arts expert
- poosy slayer

And now we can add Geopolitical Expert on Eurasian Affairs to his resume Laugh

And I am also still wondering who is "Yakushenko", the guy who created the language division between the people of Ukraine... Is it the son of Yanukovich and Belarus President Lukaschenko, or is a fusion between Yanukovich and his antecessor Yuschenko?

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(This post was last modified: 06-28-2019 11:28 PM by Rocha.)
06-28-2019 11:19 PM
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icrus Offline
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Post: #2598
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Who here has actually stepped foot in Russia?

If so, I don't know why you're discussing the difference between Россиане and Русские. Basic knowledge.

Also, contemporary Russia doesn't have a culture. It is only a shell and that will create big problems in a few years if they don't figure this out fast.

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06-29-2019 05:08 AM
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Post: #2599
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-27-2019 08:37 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  I have 3 kids and dont want Pride Month

(06-25-2019 07:35 PM)reciproke Wrote:  a free and independent European(!) nation trying to embrace their native culture. It's really a no brainer

A few days ago, there was the gay pride in Kyiv: almost 8000 participants compared to 3000 maximum last year.

And this year they rolled out the drag queens with heavy police protection. They did not dress like full sex degenerates yet but they're getting there. Everything goes according to plan, little by little...

In some Ukrainian cities there were 30 participants to the gay pride march and 600 policemen to escort them. They are trying very hard to embrance their native culture I guess.

[Image: 5568.jpg?width=700&quality=85&am...5a0b2b2754]

[Image: gettyimages-1151656179.jpg?timestamp=1561403469]

[Image: 2019-06-23T102336Z_1268556552_RC13D0766D...24x769.jpg]

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06-29-2019 06:04 AM
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RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(06-28-2019 04:45 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Many of the claims on both sides here are pure fantasy.

The Russian language is not illegal in Ukraine. I speak it every day in the capital city, as do most of its inhabitants, without any problems at all. It was briefly outlawed in Lviv, for 2 years, and was restricted to business and public institutions, before the law was repealed. It never attempted to govern private conversations between two individuals. It was misguided, recognised as such, and withdrawn.

There is a new law being introduced currently, which governs all public institutions, mandating the use of Ukrainian. Personally I feel it is excessively restrictive. It has its merits, but should really be limited to the institutions of government and any interactions with it.

The use of language as a weapon/tool to divide goes back to Yukashenko and his electioneering - dividing Ukraine into regions based on language, and suggesting the Russian speaking parts were second and third class participants in the electoral system. Language as an issue between the people of Ukraine was his creation, and it has wrought a great deal of division and unhappiness. It was a fairly evil and cynical thing to do. Smart for winning elections, but the consequences have been severe.

Beyond that, there is a complete failure to understand how Russian propaganda is executed and how their special forces operate on the ground in places like Ukraine, Georgia etc. The Russian propaganda efforts in Crimea and the Donbass began, if they ever really ceased, almost as soon as communism collapsed. They intensified after Yeltsin was deposed as Putin came to power. Putin was obviously a KGB guy, and during the Glasnost and Perestroika times Gorbachev was essentially operating in the face of extreme resistance from the KGB, who wanted to take a much tougher line on the dissolution of the Soviet Union, which they wanted to retain in tact by force.

Fundamentally, Putin believes in the reunification of the territories of the Soviet Union. This is widely acknowledged and not something he denies. There is an active and concerted, though not always well coordinated or planned, effort by the Russian state to regain what territory it can.

There is absolutely no question that Russian PSYOPs have been underway in Crimea, and the Donbass, for more than 20 years. Of course, many people in those regions, and across Ukraine, are ethnic Russians, and feel some ties to Russia anyway, so it's not straightforwardly Russian brainwashing, there is a legitimate sense of belonging at least in a lose sense to Russia for many Ukrainians. This is exacerbated amongst the older generation, as many of them experienced greater personal prosperity during the time of the Soviet Union. This happens to include the more Russic east, which was also one of the industrial powerhouses of the Soviet Union, and enjoyed many perks as a result.

There was, once Maidan began, a concerted campaign by Russian special forces and intelligence services across large swathes of the Ukrainian East. In Dnipro, Kharkiv, and Odessa, Russian special forces were actively engaged in causing widespread disruption and civil unrest. The 'little green men' were out on the streets beating people up, raping, and killing to create fear and distrust amongst the general populace. This was a deliberate psychological operation designed to create a sense of lawlessness. When this sense of lawlessness pervades, the population is ready to turn to any authority that can return order. The clear end goal of this operation was to ensure a grateful populace when Russian troops (or rebel troops, with a Russian command structure, as currently exists in the Donbass) moved in and took those cities.

There is also a very legitimate Russian grievance at the way they have been handled by the West. There have been olive branches over the years, and they have always come from Russia, and been rejected by the West. The West has had ample opportunity to take a different tack with Russia, and put itself on a more positive and constructive path. At the end of the Second World War, a decision was made to rebuild Germany, not to crush it completely, and this decision allowed the Germans to set themselves on a different path, and regain largely positive relations in a short space of time with countries it had previously been a brutal occupier of.

By contrast, when the Cold War ended, and in the time since, the West has not taken the many opportunities available to it to bring Russia into the fold, and engage in more constructive relations. There has undoubtedly been a huge failure of Western foreign policy towards Russia. The encroachment of NATO on Russia is hugely provocative, and often involves the West reneging on agreements it has made with the Russians, exacerbating the bad feeling. Russia is not without legitimate grievance. It is probably right to feel that the West is unwilling to be a friend, and often behaves like an enemy. You can make a very strong case that the current crisis in the East of Ukraine is the result of the typically poor European and American foreign policy that has characterised most of the last 20 years. I certainly don't believe there would be war in the East right now were it not for the aggressive expansionism, along lines Russia could not accept, that has had results that should have been predictable to any informed observer. The idea that Russia would surrender Crimea to Europe, and have it's navy blocked from accessing the Mediterranean was incredibly naive. Russia would have been fine to continue the status quo - access without ownership. But blocking that access to Crimea would be equivalent to the Turks closing the Bosphorus - an act of war. This has been an essential sea port and part of a larger Russian foreign policy for hundreds of years, and Europe and America were careless in their agitations.

Many stuff you said were right and many stuff were wrong.
But just one thing
I quote "Putin was a KGB". Do you know that during Soviet Union , there was nothing else than KGB ?
It's like if USA would change regime now. And CIA would be renamed SPS. And you would say " we cannot trust this guy , he was CIA in 2019".
Every person in service before the fall of soviet union was linked to soviet police/soviet politicians/soviet secret services etc and so was Putin. This does not mean anything.
06-29-2019 01:41 PM
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