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Ukraine conflict lounge
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calwinston Offline
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Post: #176
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
"Pro-Moscow officials in Crimea, who favor secession from Ukraine, have said they will seize all utilities and assets owned by the Kiev-based Ukrainian government if the referendum goes as expected. But Crimea's electricity, freshwater and natural gas all flows in from the province of Kherson, where leaders warn they will shut everything off if the referendum they say is illegitimate, goes forward.

Last week, Kherson’s regional legislature overwhelmingly passed a motion supporting the preservation of Ukraine’s territorial integrity."

Hahahaha! Guess the Crimean government never saw that coming! Russia better start building electrical, water, and natural gas lines across the Kerch Strait.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/13/...y-in-dark/

   

"The Ukrainian peninsula province of Crimea is dependent on a 250-mile viaduct called the North Crimea Canal, for its freshwater."
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2014 10:58 PM by calwinston.)
03-13-2014 10:49 PM
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jimukr104 Offline
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Post: #177
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-13-2014 10:49 PM)calwinston Wrote:  "Pro-Moscow officials in Crimea, who favor secession from Ukraine, have said they will seize all utilities and assets owned by the Kiev-based Ukrainian government if the referendum goes as expected. But Crimea's electricity, freshwater and natural gas all flows in from the province of Kherson, where leaders warn they will shut everything off if the referendum they say is illegitimate, goes forward.

Last week, Kherson’s regional legislature overwhelmingly passed a motion supporting the preservation of Ukraine’s territorial integrity."

Hahahaha! Guess the Crimean government never saw that coming! Russia better start building electrical, water, and natural gas lines across the Kerch Strait.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/13/...y-in-dark/
No they know. We bought it up over a week ago. That's why there are TANKS amassed around the border.
03-13-2014 10:58 PM
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calwinston Offline
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Post: #178
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-13-2014 10:58 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 10:49 PM)calwinston Wrote:  "Pro-Moscow officials in Crimea, who favor secession from Ukraine, have said they will seize all utilities and assets owned by the Kiev-based Ukrainian government if the referendum goes as expected. But Crimea's electricity, freshwater and natural gas all flows in from the province of Kherson, where leaders warn they will shut everything off if the referendum they say is illegitimate, goes forward.

Last week, Kherson’s regional legislature overwhelmingly passed a motion supporting the preservation of Ukraine’s territorial integrity."

Hahahaha! Guess the Crimean government never saw that coming! Russia better start building electrical, water, and natural gas lines across the Kerch Strait.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/13/...y-in-dark/
No they know. We bought it up over a week ago. That's why there are TANKS amassed around the border.

They better put a rush on it! Also Russia gains nothing by rolling into eastern Ukraine. They will always have over half the population against them. That population will probably breed a terrorist group like Al-Qaeda but with much more support.
03-13-2014 11:19 PM
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Tex Pro Offline
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Post: #179
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Large brawl in Donetsk today:



(This post was last modified: 03-14-2014 12:03 AM by Tex Pro.)
03-14-2014 12:01 AM
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Tex Pro Offline
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Post: #180
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
More on the Donetsk brawl from Vice News:



03-14-2014 12:59 AM
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Handsome Creepy Eel Offline
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Post: #181
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-13-2014 10:49 PM)calwinston Wrote:  "Pro-Moscow officials in Crimea, who favor secession from Ukraine, have said they will seize all utilities and assets owned by the Kiev-based Ukrainian government if the referendum goes as expected. But Crimea's electricity, freshwater and natural gas all flows in from the province of Kherson, where leaders warn they will shut everything off if the referendum they say is illegitimate, goes forward.

Last week, Kherson’s regional legislature overwhelmingly passed a motion supporting the preservation of Ukraine’s territorial integrity."

Hahahaha! Guess the Crimean government never saw that coming! Russia better start building electrical, water, and natural gas lines across the Kerch Strait.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/13/...y-in-dark/

I think they will just arrange an exchange of electricity and water from Ukraine in exchange for continuing gas shipments to Ukraine at the current rate. It's not like the Russian side doesn't have anything to bargain with.

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03-14-2014 02:56 AM
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jimukr104 Offline
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Post: #182
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-13-2014 11:19 PM)calwinston Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 10:58 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 10:49 PM)calwinston Wrote:  "Pro-Moscow officials in Crimea, who favor secession from Ukraine, have said they will seize all utilities and assets owned by the Kiev-based Ukrainian government if the referendum goes as expected. But Crimea's electricity, freshwater and natural gas all flows in from the province of Kherson, where leaders warn they will shut everything off if the referendum they say is illegitimate, goes forward.

Last week, Kherson’s regional legislature overwhelmingly passed a motion supporting the preservation of Ukraine’s territorial integrity."

Hahahaha! Guess the Crimean government never saw that coming! Russia better start building electrical, water, and natural gas lines across the Kerch Strait.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/13/...y-in-dark/
No they know. We bought it up over a week ago. That's why there are TANKS amassed around the border.

They better put a rush on it! Also Russia gains nothing by rolling into eastern Ukraine. They will always have over half the population against them. That population will probably breed a terrorist group like Al-Qaeda but with much more support.

True..unless they are trying to start a civil war. Possibility...which will lead to eventual split.
03-14-2014 12:04 PM
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Blunt Offline
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Post: #183
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Lavrov - if Kosovo was a special case, then Crimea is a special case too.

Agree
03-14-2014 12:08 PM
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Big Nilla Offline
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Post: #184
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Some George Soros NGO Ukraine info:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news...-s-turmoil

Executive Order banning you from US entry for being a "Russian sympathizer" lol:
http://www.infowars.com/obama-bans-criti...ering-u-s/
03-14-2014 02:14 PM
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Icarus Offline
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Post: #185
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Somewhat off-topic, but Sweden is already preparing for a Russian invasion ;-)




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(This post was last modified: 03-14-2014 02:19 PM by Icarus.)
03-14-2014 02:18 PM
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jimukr104 Offline
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Post: #186
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Adding Crimea will be a logistical nightmare for Russia. Although I sympathize with the Russians I think Putin went to far. But I blame his Duma more and of course Crimeans.
Imho his "invasion" of Crimea with no violence totally is a mockery of US involvement in other places. When we get involved people die. Russians get involved no one dies and the people cheer them even.
What I think happened is that Putin only wanted to have a referendum for independence but the locals were screaming "rodina,rodina"
Then the Duma decided to accept Crimea into the federation. If you notice its always the Duma speaker who mentions about inviting Crimea into the country.
But logistically Crimea is useless in the federation. It will be 2.2 million mouths to feed, supply utilities to and even stimulate an economy for.
If it remained independent than for humanitarian reasons the U.N. would still require UA to accommodate Crimea.
An example is Transneister....Moldova has to give them same rights as citizens but has NO CONTROL over them.
As for saving money on blacksea fleet... that will not save them much.
South Stream might be sanctioned from being built now.
Putin gets nothing.
He needs to make demands now(or after election)
Demands:
a. right to maintain bases for ever(obama even said they need to atleast honor lease).
b.Can't join NATO
c. Crimea and other oblasts get more independence. UA actually hinted they were ready to do that(federalize).
d. Inclusive gov't and to stop arresting presidential candidates from the East.
e. Ukraine pays back gas debt and the 3 billion loan ASAP.
f. EU approves permit for South stream.

This scenario Russia wins,saves face. EU wins/saves face. UA wins. In long run after UA is forced to pay back Russian debt..it will be a financial burden on the west.
03-14-2014 02:56 PM
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Big Nilla Offline
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Post: #187
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Russia hacked down a US drone in Crimea. http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-interc...30584.html

The agitation and escalation by the West never stops. The West seems to be all-in for escalating this situation. Since the West has decided it's not going to de-escalate, Russia should start escalating things outside the Ukraine theater (but after the Crimea vote).

Russia should announce it's own red line and dictate terms for the West to get out of Ukraine to force the West to either prove they will de-escalate or not. If not, then Russia can stop being reactive and go on the offense with clear conscious and better dictate the escalation since there is really no choice in the matter... there will be an escalation. Perhaps some Russian "businessmen" should visit Soros (and others like him) and see if he wants to invest in lead.
03-14-2014 03:14 PM
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Post: #188
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Russia making moves to lessen the impact of sanctions:
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/03/1...-holdings/
03-14-2014 03:27 PM
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Blunt Offline
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Post: #189
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
@Jim That would be a much better compromise than the annexation of Crimea.

Ukraine has a chance here to elect a new government here that could continue and strengthen it's status as a crossroads between East and West. Such a situation could enrich all parties.

Like I said earlier if only the EU had engaged in tripartite negotiations the bloodshed may have been avoided. Now, they need to establish a federalized unity government and bring the three parties to the table (EU, RF, UA and not the US).
03-14-2014 03:36 PM
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Post: #190
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-14-2014 03:36 PM)Blunt Wrote:  Ukraine has a chance here to elect a new government here that could continue and strengthen it's status as a crossroads between East and West. Such a situation could enrich all parties.

I don't believe Ukrainians actually have a choice in the matter (much like the American people don't have a real representative choice). If they did, yeah, being neutral is the way to go.
03-14-2014 03:42 PM
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jimukr104 Offline
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Post: #191
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
A CNN poll now sees Russia as a threat. Can someone explain how the media has presented Russia as a threat to America? Ukraine has been tied to the hip with Russia for centuries.
03-14-2014 03:44 PM
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jimukr104 Offline
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Post: #192
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-14-2014 03:14 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  Russia hacked down a US drone in Crimea. http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-interc...30584.html

The agitation and escalation by the West never stops. The West seems to be all-in for escalating this situation. Since the West has decided it's not going to de-escalate, Russia should start escalating things outside the Ukraine theater (but after the Crimea vote).

Russia should announce it's own red line and dictate terms for the West to get out of Ukraine to force the West to either prove they will de-escalate or not. If not, then Russia can stop being reactive and go on the offense with clear conscious and better dictate the escalation since there is really no choice in the matter... there will be an escalation. Perhaps some Russian "businessmen" should visit Soros (and others like him) and see if he wants to invest in lead.
If Putin wants to scare the west... he should go make a military alliance with Iran, Syria, North Korea,china,and every other sinister 6 country across the world.That would pretty much eliminate american influence in parts of the world. If they did that with Iraq..we would never have invaded.
A pentagon official admitted that they could make life difficult for America if they went on the diplomatic offensive.
03-14-2014 03:52 PM
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Roosh Offline
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Post: #193
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Lithuania barks, Russia responds swiftly:

Quote:On Thursday morning the Lithuanian parliament condemned the military aggression of the Russian Federation in Ukraine and its occupation of the territory of a sovereign country. The parliament said that it strongly supports the sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity of Ukraine and expressed political solidarity with the new Ukrainian authorities; they also supported sanctions against Russia, while favoring visa liberalization and the early signing of the European Union Association Agreement with Ukraine slated for next week.

In response, Russia has temporarily suspended the import of food products into the Customs Union. If a Western (specifically, American) company wants to deliver goods through Lithuania to Russia or a Customs Union state, Russian officials will order it to go “through other ports which do not belong to Lithuania [or] to certain other countries,” according to Prime Minister Algirdas Butkevicius. Russian media calls Lithuania’s pro-Ukrainian policy “anti-Russian.”

http://ukrainianpolicy.com/russia-sancti...g-ukraine/

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03-14-2014 04:06 PM
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Roosh Offline
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Post: #194
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
The referendum is a done deal. No way Putin would allow Crimea to be lost through "democratic" action. The only question is the reaction afterwards.

popcorn

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03-14-2014 04:22 PM
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Tex Pro Offline
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Post: #195
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
The Tanks Are Coming While Russia, US "Remain At Odds" Over Ukraine:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-14...are-coming
03-14-2014 04:25 PM
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Roosh Offline
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Post: #196
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Assuming Putin doesn't back down, can Russia really survive this Western onslaught economically and politically?

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03-14-2014 04:28 PM
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jimukr104 Offline
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Post: #197
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Question..how can an interim un elected gov't sign an EU trade agreement without a referendum after knowing that based on last polls only 42-45% approve of IT? The measures hurt the Russian regions the most..do you think Putin should consider it an act of WAR on ethnic Russians?
(Sanctions against Japan is what led to Pearl Harbor..sanctions are an act of war)

As for outcome in Crimea..who can tell?? Still don't think it is a great idea.
It is not going to prosper Russia and those same Crimeans will revolt when they find stores have empty shelves, prices rise, and even utilities and employment might be threatened and they might be cut off from the world(plane only way out). Not sure anyone really thought about the aspects of it all.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2014 04:33 PM by jimukr104.)
03-14-2014 04:29 PM
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Tex Pro Offline
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Post: #198
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-14-2014 04:22 PM)Roosh Wrote:  The referendum is a done deal. No way Putin would allow Crimea to be lost through "democratic" action. The only question is the reaction afterwards.

popcorn

We already kind of know what the reaction will be since the West has been giving away its intentions: More sanctions and escalating the conflict by sending troops & setting up missile defense systems in Poland and the Baltic States.

(03-14-2014 04:28 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Assuming Putin doesn't back down, can Russia really survive this Western onslaught economically and politically?

If this keeps escalating, the economic and political sanctions will be the least of his worries since Putin will probably invade Eastern Ukraine to create a buffer zone against the West.

At that point, keeping this conflict contained to just Ukraine will be very hard to do, so I suspect an eventual clash with NATO will become a possibility.

Edit: Let's hope it doesn't get to that point.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2014 05:19 PM by Tex Pro.)
03-14-2014 04:39 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #199
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-14-2014 04:29 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  Question..how can an interim un elected gov't sign an EU trade agreement without a referendum after knowing that based on last polls only 42-45% approve of IT? The measures hurt the Russian regions the most..do you think Putin should consider it an act of WAR on ethnic Russians?
(Sanctions against Japan is what led to Pearl Harbor..sanctions are an act of war)

Maybe I do NOT understand some of the presumptions, but really are we of the opinion that the current government in Kiev is legit or "democratically elected"?

First of all this current govt oust the leader that was democratically elected. That's a coupe... Then if they take subsequent actions to get themselves voted in, that does NOT make them a valid government b/c the first act of the coupe was NOT valid. Anyhow the fact that the west and the EU recognize the new government in Kiev as being legit doesn't take away from its invalidity and likely the division within the country about whether it is valid.

Anyhow, it seems to be a mess that neither party is going to want to back down from.... at least, it seems to be getting worse and worse by the day in terms of neither side wanting to back down... and then the alliances that are being made and questions about whether those alliances are solidified... or maybe there will be some side switching.

I get the sense that a succession vote would NOT be valid, but that would NOT affect the pressures and alliances and various kinds of recognition that would be taking place and ongoing.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2014 04:49 PM by JayJuanGee.)
03-14-2014 04:42 PM
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jimukr104 Offline
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Post: #200
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-14-2014 04:42 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(03-14-2014 04:29 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  Question..how can an interim un elected gov't sign an EU trade agreement without a referendum after knowing that based on last polls only 42-45% approve of IT? The measures hurt the Russian regions the most..do you think Putin should consider it an act of WAR on ethnic Russians?
(Sanctions against Japan is what led to Pearl Harbor..sanctions are an act of war)

Maybe I do NOT understand some of the presumptions, but really are we of the opinion that the current government in Kiev is legit or "democratically elected"?

First of all this current govt oust the leader that was democratically elected. That's a coupe... Then if they take subsequent actions to get themselves voted in, that does NOT make them a valid government b/c the first act of the coupe was NOT valid. Anyhow the fact that the west and the EU recognize the new government in Kiev as being legit doesn't take away from its invalidity and likely the division within the country about whether it is valid.

Anyhow, it seems to be a mess that neither party is going to want to back down from.... at least, it seems to be getting worse and worse by the day in terms of neither side wanting to back down... and then the alliances that are being made and questions about whether those alliances are solidified... or maybe there will be some side switching.

I get the sense that a succession vote would NOT be valid, but that would NOT affect the pressures and alliances and various kinds of recognition that would be taking place and ongoing.
lol..we know it is illegal gov't..but the arrogance keeps continuing.
The May 25 elections is a sham anyway. It will be a selection from among 3-4 opposition leaders.
Not even sure if the communist party is fielding anyone. But the current coup e tat gov't has already arrested the governor of Kharkov who was going to run. Sounds like fascism to me...arrest all the competition.
Western hypocrisy in action...we aren't even suppose to give coup e tat gov't aid.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2014 04:55 PM by jimukr104.)
03-14-2014 04:54 PM
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