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How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
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Vincent Chase Offline
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Post: #151
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(02-06-2019 11:04 PM)PixelFree Wrote:  The only downside with Nizoral is it turns your hair into dry frizzy steel wool, especially if you use 2% and use it daily.

Yes that's why you need a good conditioner after.

Some use Regenepure for that reason instead but it has 1% ketoconazole rather than the 2% (Nizoral) which has been clinically tested. It's both less effective and costs 2-3x more. Best to use just a good conditioner after Nizoral.
02-07-2019 02:56 PM
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Post: #152
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
^Also, use ketoconazole only max .3x per week. Otherwise you're unnecessarily drying out your hair.

And as Vincent Chase said, use conditioner on the off days.
02-08-2019 12:15 PM
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_Cicero Offline
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Post: #153
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(02-04-2019 02:26 PM)Ceasar Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 11:13 AM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  The best products at the moment appear to be:

1) Minoxidil (5%) combined with dermarolling
2) Nizoral shampoo
3) Finesteride (the topical form is also an option if you wish to reduce side effects)
aka the "big three"

A couple of other options:
1) Trinov - new release from Italy end of last year 6 sprays a day a day.
2) RU58841 is experimental and I have tried it in the past but it never did phase three testing and I'm a bit wary about it and long term effects.

Most shit out there is snake oil. The above do have clinical studies behind them.

At the moment I'm using minoxidil, nizoral shampoo and trying out trinov. This is combined with laser brush once per week. This could also be combined with PRP once a year for maintainance.

This is all for maintenance. At some point will need to bite the bullet and do a hair transplant and then continue the maintainance shit thereafter.

I would swap the Nizoral Shampoo for a dermaroller. But, actually, screw all that, just go right to a hair transplant if you can, and use this stuff as supplements. If you can't, go bald.

So, update on this. My hair transplant worked much better than a year on Rogaine plus a dermaroller. I probably have 50% more hair on the top of my head, even though it still isn't perfect. The update here is that the results are now in: this has noticeably helped me with women. I don't think it just helped with confidence either. The hottest women in bars will signal they want to be opened. Didn't happen before.

If you're thinking about getting a hair transplant -- go get one ASAP. I'll probably sign up for a second, even though the procedure is a hassle and it takes 2 months to not look like a monster and more time for your hair to grow. But, grow it will, and soon you'll be slaying hotter, younger pussy with less effort.
02-22-2019 01:23 AM
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Seth_Rose Offline
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Post: #154
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
Good to hear about the transplant. My hair loss isn’t that bad, but even using Minoxidil I’m expecting in a few years it could get to a point where I’m uncomfortable with it.

I’m curious about how you went about finding a surgeon for this and expected costs.

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03-02-2019 10:09 PM
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BroodingSea Offline
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Post: #155
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
Has anyone had scalp micropigmentation done? I'm seriously considering this
03-03-2019 07:42 AM
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Jetset Online
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Post: #156
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
I have a full head of hair, but as I'm getting older, it's definitely thinner than the Elvis hair I had as a teenager. Hairline is typical, some recession but nothing excessive. I use a natural thickening shampoo (Brickell) and condition once a week, but if I comb it right out of the shower, the way hairs clump together can leave too much scalp showing on the back of my head until it dries out and I remember to ruffle it.

I'm not crazy about this, especially since I'm supplementing creatine again.

Blow-drying might help too, but is there a good topical anti-DHT product I can add to my weekend routine, or is stuff like saw palmetto shampoo just hype? Reviews for Lipogaine seem very positive.

Hidey-ho, RVFerinos!
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2019 09:00 AM by Jetset.)
03-03-2019 08:58 AM
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KingKrule Offline
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Post: #157
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
You have a Ketoconazole shampoo and RU,those are said to be DHT blocker. The keto shampoo is very light blocker and far from as good as finasteride. I guess both are allready mentioned in this thread. RU is probably the best choice to replace Fin, its a hit or miss, like with most of the hairloss products.
03-04-2019 02:55 AM
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Post: #158
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(03-03-2019 07:42 AM)BroodingSea Wrote:  Has anyone had scalp micropigmentation done? I'm seriously considering this

No but I've seen a few people with it and it's not really a good look. Definitely be sure to see some real life people with it before you commit, not just photos/videos.
03-04-2019 06:38 AM
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Jetset Online
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Post: #159
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(03-04-2019 02:55 AM)KingKrule Wrote:  You have a Ketoconazole shampoo and RU,those are said to be DHT blocker. The keto shampoo is very light blocker and far from as good as finasteride. I guess both are allready mentioned in this thread. RU is probably the best choice to replace Fin, its a hit or miss, like with most of the hairloss products.

Thanks. I'm nowhere near concerned enough to try an oral supplement that would mess with DHT levels in my blood, or even something topical that requires me to apply it multiple times a day, but I'd be willing to put a "light" blocker in my haircare routine to see if it matters.

I might give Lipogaine Big 5 a shot, since caffeine and saw palmetto seem to have good potential. No keto like Ultrax, but no SLS, either.

Hidey-ho, RVFerinos!
03-04-2019 09:17 AM
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Vincent Chase Offline
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Post: #160
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(03-04-2019 09:17 AM)Jetset Wrote:  
(03-04-2019 02:55 AM)KingKrule Wrote:  You have a Ketoconazole shampoo and RU,those are said to be DHT blocker. The keto shampoo is very light blocker and far from as good as finasteride. I guess both are allready mentioned in this thread. RU is probably the best choice to replace Fin, its a hit or miss, like with most of the hairloss products.

Thanks. I'm nowhere near concerned enough to try an oral supplement that would mess with DHT levels in my blood, or even something topical that requires me to apply it multiple times a day, but I'd be willing to put a "light" blocker in my haircare routine to see if it matters.

I might give Lipogaine Big 5 a shot, since caffeine and saw palmetto seem to have good potential. No keto like Ultrax, but no SLS, either.

The only shampoo which clinically works contains Ketoconazole (Nizoral and a few others). Saw palmetto and caffeine are snake oil topical products. Expect zero results. Take it from me someone who used to spend a lot of money on caffeine shampoos. It won't do anything for hair loss (they have even been banned from advertising as such in certain countries now) but it does smell good.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2019 09:37 AM by Vincent Chase.)
03-04-2019 09:29 AM
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Post: #161
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
I started using argan oil and argan oil based gel together about 5 years ago when I noticed a little thinning on top and it halted any further thinning. Would at least try it.
03-04-2019 11:12 AM
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Jetset Online
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Post: #162
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(03-04-2019 09:29 AM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  The only shampoo which clinically works contains Ketoconazole (Nizoral and a few others). Saw palmetto and caffeine are snake oil topical products. Expect zero results. Take it from me someone who used to spend a lot of money on caffeine shampoos. It won't do anything for hair loss (they have even been banned from advertising as such in certain countries now) but it does smell good.

I believe you about your personal experience, but it is that it's been established that they are snake oil, or is just that the research isn't sufficient to make clinical claims?

Obviously, I don't expect it to perform miracles and push my hairline back down my temples, but that's not my goal. I'm interested in trying a keto product, but quite a few reviews find Nizoral harsh and stripping, which is the opposite of what I'm going for.

Hidey-ho, RVFerinos!
03-04-2019 11:50 AM
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Vincent Chase Offline
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Post: #163
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(03-04-2019 11:50 AM)Jetset Wrote:  
(03-04-2019 09:29 AM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  The only shampoo which clinically works contains Ketoconazole (Nizoral and a few others). Saw palmetto and caffeine are snake oil topical products. Expect zero results. Take it from me someone who used to spend a lot of money on caffeine shampoos. It won't do anything for hair loss (they have even been banned from advertising as such in certain countries now) but it does smell good.

I believe you about your personal experience, but it is that it's been established that they are snake oil, or is just that the research isn't sufficient to make clinical claims?

I already answered this but I'll repeat - it's established that there are no clinical studies backing their claims, which is why it's banned for advertising in certain countries for any notion of hair loss prevention.

Since you didn't seem to get it I'll say it again. Topical use of caffeine and saw palmetto are both useless for hair loss prevention.

Nizoral can be a little hard on the scalp but it does its job.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2019 11:59 AM by Vincent Chase.)
03-04-2019 11:58 AM
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Jetset Online
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Post: #164
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(03-04-2019 11:58 AM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  I already answered this but I'll repeat - it's established that there are no clinical studies backing their claims, which is why it's banned for advertising in certain countries for any notion of hair loss prevention.

I'm getting it perfectly. No one who is battling significant and ongoing hair loss should choose an unproven ingredient over a clinically proven product. However, that wasn't quite the scenario I was inquiring after: my hair has been stable for years, but I'm just looking to improve the quality of what's already growing in.

In any case, the reason I asked is because I was only able to dig up one instance of advertising authorities going after a caffeine shampoo, which has already been mentioned in this thread: Alpecin. Alpecin provided a number of studies to support their claims, but the ASA held that those studies suffered from various design weaknesses, investigated caffeine generally rather than Alpecin itself, and/or investigated a specific type of hair loss in male subjects that was largely irrelevant to female consumers:
https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/dr-kurt-w...87365.html

My point was that it really was because the research Alpecin was citing was not strong enough to support such an expansive claim, and not because that research has been debunked. It's a big jump from "a large, double-blind in vivo clinical trial has not yet been run" all the way to "this does nothing and has no place in a consumer hair product". In fact, Alpecin continues to be permitted to make a specific claim that it "helps to prevent testosterone from attacking the hair" and use other language regarding caffeine and testosterone on their British website:
https://www.alpecin.com/en-gb/news/the-8...-caffeine/

It seems to me they simply got too melodramatic in their marketing and attracted (100% warranted) attention, yet there's still reason to suspect that caffeine likely does "something" as a hair product, though it might very well fail to generally slow (nevermind reverse) hair loss:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17214716

Saw palmetto is in much the same boat. It's promoted in alternative medicine circles for a laundry list of health issues it has nothing to do with (in true snake oil fashion), but the research into oral saw palmetto and DHT is strong enough that Mayo Clinic researchers accept that there's potential as an alternative to finasteride for prostate enlargement because of their similar effects:
https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/ar...1/fulltext

Research into whether or not it works topically on the scalp is limited, but encouraging:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26010505
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...cia_in_Men

I just don't see the case for the wholesale dismissal as maliciously-marketed snake oil, but rather as good prospects that might not survive a gauntlet of clinical trials but that have some rational basis and are harmless to try.

With all that said, after digging through some of the other products, I've realized that Regenepure DR is closer to the kind of formulation I like, fewer complaints about being damaging to hair, and has ketoconazole (not to mention, incidentally, saw palmetto and caffeine). Rather than starting with something utterly mild and moving on to Nizoral if it doesn't work out, I think I've found a product to test out.

Hidey-ho, RVFerinos!
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2019 04:27 PM by Jetset.)
03-04-2019 03:44 PM
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Vincent Chase Offline
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Post: #165
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
There are some studies on the topical form but they are indeed limited and weak. I genuinely hope it is effective. I'm using Nizoral with more scientific backing behind it. That may change.

Perhaps I did sound a little too rash there and don't wish to be and you make good points.

At this point all one can say that the science into hair loss is in its very infancy. I am NW2 and not that happy and considering getting a transplant fix after years of minoxidil and nizoral.

Even hair transplant surgeons have widely different opinions. Upon meeting them one said PRP is bullshit, another said it works, another said use fin, another said don't use fin but switch to oral minoxidil, another said laser is bullshit, another said my hair loss isn't too bad, another said I need 2,800 grafts etc.

It is a joke industry at this point where knowledge is very limited.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2019 05:09 PM by Vincent Chase.)
03-04-2019 05:08 PM
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Post: #166
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
I think low-dose oral minoxidil could be a serious option. A couple of big name hair transplant surgeons are really loving the results of this on their patients

There are anecdotal claims of it working twice as well as the topical option (Isn't the oral medicine how minoxidil was initially discovered?)

I've taken it for two weeks. Several of those 'white fluff hairs' on my lower hairline are very clearly turning into normal hairs. The top half of the hair is white. The bottom half is my hair colour

Will keep people updated. I'll be the guinea pig for this

Side effects include heart and blood pressure stuff but I will risk any side effects that aren't sexual
04-04-2019 01:11 PM
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Post: #167
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
FYI I am also 2 months into 2.5mg - 5mg daily Oral Minoxidil.

I think my hair is getting more gray hairs, but it could just be a coincidence. No noticeable hair growth (if anything, some slight shedding) although this was expected at this stage.

I expect it will be doing something in another 4 months (6 months in).

My brother has been on 5mg daily for 6+ months and he said it has filled in his crown a little.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2019 11:10 PM by PixelFree.)
04-04-2019 10:34 PM
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RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
Keep us updated guys!
04-05-2019 02:49 AM
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flyinghorse Offline
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Post: #169
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
Has anyone tried shaving?
04-05-2019 03:07 AM
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Post: #170
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(04-04-2019 01:11 PM)LeightonBlackstock Wrote:  Side effects include heart and blood pressure stuff but I will risk any side effects that aren't sexual

Only got one heart Sad
04-05-2019 04:15 AM
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RiskIt4Biscuit Offline
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Post: #171
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
For the two using oral minoxidil, do you get the same side effects on oral as you get on topical?
I`ve read about skin problems, face bloating ect.
No point in adding hair to your head if it takes years off your face, thats why i never touched it.
04-05-2019 05:41 AM
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Post: #172
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
Update:

Have been taking 2.5mg oral monoxidal and 1000mcg of biotin for two weeks

Every month or so, I notice a few long eyebrow hairs, so I tend to pluck them, as they look straggly

I usually pluck them with tweezers and the whole hair comes out with the white bulb

I tried to pluck four eyebrow hairs the other day. All four times, when I plucked the hair, only half would break off. It was really odd. As if the hair were made of Kevlar

The Minoxidil and/or Biotin is definitely strengthening the hair

As for the side effects. Haven't seen any yet. Likely that will happen

Personally I'm happy to risk any side effects that aren't related to inhibited sexual function

May take collagen as a supplement if I notice facial aging
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2019 04:52 AM by LeightonBlackstock.)
04-10-2019 04:50 AM
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Post: #173
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(03-03-2019 07:42 AM)BroodingSea Wrote:  Has anyone had scalp micropigmentation done? I'm seriously considering this

Id be very wary, when it looks shit, it looks really shit...
04-10-2019 12:13 PM
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PixelFree Offline
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Post: #174
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(04-05-2019 05:41 AM)RiskIt4Biscuit Wrote:  For the two using oral minoxidil, do you get the same side effects on oral as you get on topical?
I`ve read about skin problems, face bloating ect.
No point in adding hair to your head if it takes years off your face, thats why i never touched it.

Never used topical so no idea. I just knew I wouldn't keep it up. Even bought the foam but let it expire.

Now, it could be in my head, although I do seem to look a bit more rough in the morning. Bags under the eyes etc. Have also been having some late nights so it's hard to tell exactly. Also, during my haircut yesterday, my barber asked if I wanted him to clipper my eyebrows. Never had this done before! Maybe they are growing a little extra. Not keen on extra body hair, already a little hairer than I'd like to be.

Have to say - I agree - not happy if I have a puffy, older looking face and will cease and just go a HT.

Problem is I'm 2 months in now, and have gone through some extra shedding / at the low point before it gets better - unsure if it's better to stop now or continue.

I'll ask my friends if they think my face looks worse.
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2019 10:01 PM by PixelFree.)
04-15-2019 09:59 PM
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Post: #175
RE: How To Keep Your Hair On The Cheap: Hair Loss Prevention Data Sheet
(07-27-2016 01:07 PM)LeightonBlackstock Wrote:  rottenapple,

Thank you so much for posting your comment about Saw Palmetto. I nearly bought some today. I reckon anything which could affect libido is totally not worth taking.

Phoenix, thanks for the link about that stuff. Have read about it before briefly.

Guys, what are your thoughts on Biotin? I took it for a week or two one time and I noticed my new chest hair growing was DOUBLE usual thickness (if not a little thicker!).

Was scared to keep on with it as there are horror stories of shedding happening after a few months. Have also heard it makes hair grow faster but fall out easier. Can anyone add?
Biotin really increases the thickness and how shiny my hair is. Helps with skin and nails as well. Recommended.
05-04-2019 07:06 AM
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