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The Philippines thread
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #6701
RE: The Philippines thread
(11-29-2018 03:39 PM)RawGod Wrote:  Thought you'd been around for a while in the Philippines, Spaniard88? And yet you're walking 4 miles through the city like a pleb. Do you think wealthy Filipinos act like that? They have contempt for the cargo pants wearing , red skinned sexpats walking around the city like that. And complaining about orange juice substitute? You should have learned what you're gonna get and where in terms of food quality. Oranges aren't even grown in this country. It's an import with all that means regarding expense and availability. Learn and adapt.

I love to walk -- and I do it wherever I go. I could care less what the locals think. I also find many interesting places by walking that I would otherwise never discover. Obviously, I would think twice about walking in an area high in crime or air pollution -- or when it is too uncomfortable to do so. As always, common sense prevails. Now dressing like a full-blown retard is another thing altogether. I go out of my way to dress well when I travel.

Interestingly, I was eating in a local's cafe in Panama City once. An older Panamanian gentlemen, probably in his 80's, sat down next to me. He began speaking in English and told me that while I was obviously trying to blend in (as an upper class local), he could still tell that I was an American (without even hearing me talk). WTF. I assume that I probably looked too European in ancestry. Then again, he was pitching a tour of the City, so he probably developed a sixth sense about such things.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2018 04:25 PM by Tail Gunner.)
11-29-2018 04:24 PM
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yankeetravels Offline
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Post: #6702
RE: The Philippines thread
(11-29-2018 03:39 PM)RawGod Wrote:  Thought you'd been around for a while in the Philippines, Spaniard88? And yet you're walking 4 miles through the city like a pleb. Do you think wealthy Filipinos act like that? They have contempt for the cargo pants wearing , red skinned sexpats walking around the city like that. And complaining about orange juice substitute? You should have learned what you're gonna get and where in terms of food quality. Oranges aren't even grown in this country. It's an import with all that means regarding expense and availability. Learn and adapt.

I don't think walking is necessarily a bad thing. I'm not an upper class foreigner by any means but definitely not a cheap charlie, yet I like to think I walked a decent amount considering the limitations for it in that city. If you're walking out of pure cheapness, than I agree it's bad considering taxis are usually $2-3 there. But, I personally like to walk cities because that usually gives me the best chance to figure out the navigation of it for the future, take in the sights at a more relaxed pace, and get the most authentic idea of how a city operates and the overall vibe/atmosphere of it. Walking in Manila allowed me to get to know Ortigas pretty well where I had the main locations down by the end, along with figuring out the Makati roads and even a little bit of BGC. Of course, there's still more to be done on a re-visit. Spaniard is just settling in, I think it's natural to want to walk around to get to know your surroundings.

As for food, I can't say for sure if I ever got sick directly from it. I suspected one particular case in an off-road night market, but there may have been other factors that caused that. Best advice I can say there is to prioritize the mall restaurants for food. There are reasonable prices in there. Plus 7-Eleven is somewhere I went a lot for the really cheap food. I'm sure not all food is bad in the indoor supermarkets though.

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11-29-2018 04:32 PM
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Mentavious Offline
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Post: #6703
RE: The Philippines thread
We got a member bashing another member because he likes to go on walks. Now I’ve heard it all.

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11-29-2018 06:48 PM
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musicalprodigy1 Offline
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Post: #6704
RE: The Philippines thread
Just left Manila this week, Nov 2018.
WGF is dead. No doubt about it.

Spaniard is right about some virus going around, I almost DIED yesterday, so sick I had family members coming to manila from the province 6+ hours away to care for me (I'm not pinoy, just a girlfriend).

I've learned from locals, as other much more valuable members than myself have mentioned, that WGF is dead because of the havoc wreaked by the unsavory. I even met some families, a few women of those who have kids-half white- and no idea where the dad is. Is it romantic like suggested here by some, an upgrade? Not at all. Just like anywhere else, though perhaps more so in the phils, being a single mom is a burden. It's a strike against your value, and it's social stigma is worsened when with a foreigner. You young guys may not listen (I'm only 30 anyway), but don't ruin a girls life because you can't get pussy at home or wanna slay some sea pink. The consequences are real for us all. Be advised. We all like sluts for fun. Nothing wrong with it, it's their job.

People are still friendly to everyone, nothing is ever on time except for eating food, and traffic is what it's always been- horrific.

Cheers!
11-29-2018 07:35 PM
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Spaniard88
Spaniard88 Offline
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Post: #6705
RE: The Philippines thread
(11-29-2018 03:39 PM)RawGod Wrote:  Thought you'd been around for a while in the Philippines, Spaniard88? And yet you're walking 4 miles through the city like a pleb. Do you think wealthy Filipinos act like that? They have contempt for the cargo pants wearing , red skinned sexpats walking around the city like that. And complaining about orange juice substitute? You should have learned what you're gonna get and where in terms of food quality. Oranges aren't even grown in this country. It's an import with all that means regarding expense and availability. Learn and adapt.

I like walking, that's why I walk...that said, you're right that it's looked down upon here to walk, but I try to incorporate the good things of the cultures I'm familiar with and chuck the bad things. An aversion to walking is not good, so I'm not adopting it anytime soon. However, I'm aware of the dangers inherent in doing so here, such as reckless drivers, polluted air, exposure to street crime, etc., and I definitely have to make adjustments on that front. Perhaps by limiting my walking to mostly indoor areas for example. It's hard though, I like walking outdoors, what can I say?

As far as orange juice, if I pay for orange juice, I want orange juice. There's really no grey area there. They charged me real pesos, I want real orange juice, that's all I'm saying. But yes, I won't order it at that place again. Adapting. But think about it, let's say I had asked the dude, "Is this orange juice you're selling real orange juice?" I probably would have got a blank stare, so sometimes, unfortunately, the full risk is simply on us.

For the record, I don't wear cargo pants, and my skin doesn't get red, I'm a very light bronze, luckily, and the sun's been kind these last few weeks, lots of overcast skies. It's been swell on that front.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2018 11:13 PM by Spaniard88.)
11-29-2018 11:11 PM
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Spaniard88 Offline
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Post: #6706
RE: The Philippines thread
(11-29-2018 06:48 PM)Mentavious Wrote:  We got a member bashing another member because he likes to go on walks. Now I’ve heard it all.

All good, I get where he's coming from, my landlord has the same view regarding my walks. Both OP and my landlord are right that it's viewed as a plebeian thing here.

Hey, maybe some folks will give me the "It's ok, he's a foreigner and doesn't know any better" pass.

That said, walking is a great way to scan for the very, very, very rare beauties...can't really approach from a grab taxi. So there's that.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2018 11:17 PM by Spaniard88.)
11-29-2018 11:16 PM
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Spaniard88 Offline
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Post: #6707
RE: The Philippines thread
(11-29-2018 07:35 PM)musicalprodigy1 Wrote:  Just left Manila this week, Nov 2018.
WGF is dead. No doubt about it.

Spaniard is right about some virus going around, I almost DIED yesterday, so sick I had family members coming to manila from the province 6+ hours away to care for me (I'm not pinoy, just a girlfriend).

I've learned from locals, as other much more valuable members than myself have mentioned, that WGF is dead because of the havoc wreaked by the unsavory. I even met some families, a few women of those who have kids-half white- and no idea where the dad is. Is it romantic like suggested here by some, an upgrade? Not at all. Just like anywhere else, though perhaps more so in the phils, being a single mom is a burden. It's a strike against your value, and it's social stigma is worsened when with a foreigner. You young guys may not listen (I'm only 30 anyway), but don't ruin a girls life because you can't get pussy at home or wanna slay some sea pink. The consequences are real for us all. Be advised. We all like sluts for fun. Nothing wrong with it, it's their job.

People are still friendly to everyone, nothing is ever on time except for eating food, and traffic is what it's always been- horrific.

Cheers!

Hope you heal 100% soon, man...it sucked.

And yeah, sluts, semi-pros, and pros will keep on doing what they do regardless, anywhere in the world, so it is what it is on that front, but if this goes on any longer, I'm going to start suspecting we may now have WDF (White Demon Factor) when it comes to quality girls here in the Phils. I'm glad my arrangement is month to month, because I may have to explore other countries if this continues. Without WGF, or worse, with WDF, you then have to compare the Phils to other countries on the non-dating-related merits, in regards to long term living. And in that comparison, Taiwan, Vietnam, Argentina, and certain relatively safer parts of Mexico become more competitive for various reasons such as food, infrastructure, wifi, value for the money, etc.

I am seriously sensing a blank face, a sturdy brick wall, in this country, in the same spot where there used to be an open gate with a beautiful, smiling girl waving at me, trying to get my attention. Again, sluts, semi-pros, and pros excluded.

Thought I had some promising leads a few days ago, but back to almost square one again. It's just much harder to get traction now.
Before, if you were a good looking dude, it was like having an 8 wheel drive vehicle, you could go almost anywhere with almost anyone, with ease. No longer.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2018 12:00 AM by Spaniard88.)
11-29-2018 11:22 PM
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industrialPipeline2.3.6 Offline
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Post: #6708
RE: The Philippines thread
Just let this shitty country and its nasty locals rot in hell and try to get by without Nice Whitie help. They don't deserve our money with their terrible attitude towards foreigners, even men guards don't shut the fuck up and actively try to sabotage you. And no idea why you went there if you go here to find a good girl, that's ridiculous. Everyone warned about the situation on this thread before you came. Vietnam would be a much better choice if you can tolerate the terrible 3rd world living conditions. Or Taiwan (never been there but interacted with Taiwanese girls).
11-30-2018 07:42 AM
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RE: The Philippines thread
(11-30-2018 07:42 AM)industrialPipeline2.3.6 Wrote:  And no idea why you went there if you go here to find a good girl, that's ridiculous.

There's plenty of good girls here. Of the girls I met in 2014, the majority ended up meeting and dating a guy within a year after I left, and most are still with the same guy they started dating back then. From what I've seen, in the category of girls that I interacted with, they tend to partner up early and then stick together even through long distance relationships due to one or both partners working abroad. If you had a job here, like at a call center or something like that due to being employed by a large American corporation, and socialized regularly, you could break through and meet a lot of marriage material girls here, even now, I think.

I met plenty of the other kind of girl, the ones that cycle through partners, and they're doing the same thing, cycling through partners. So you can find both...it's just before, you could actually date the more serious girls with ease. Now...that's not the case, but I'm keeping at it, looking for a breakthrough.

Quote:Everyone warned about the situation on this thread before you came. Vietnam would be a much better choice if you can tolerate the terrible 3rd world living conditions. Or Taiwan (never been there but interacted with Taiwanese girls).

I'm considering both. Vietnam is known for being a difficult place to game outside of the very large cities, though. On the plus side, you can teach English there and make some cash while expanding your social circle too, so that's wonderful. Not sure about Taiwan, but if Taiwanese men are going abroad to find wives, there may be a problem.

Why do you prefer Vietnam? And do you date in the 18 to 22 range? Most of the reports I've seen from Vietnam seem to be from guys that go for girls in the 24+ range.

I will agree that the Vietnamese girls have a lot of things going for them. Of the ones I've met, they tend to be more driven and more accomplished, but I think that's selection bias, as I've only met the ones that speak fluent English, so of course they're going to be the airline stewardesses and other upward bound girls, for example. One of them called me about two months ago, she wanted to hear my voice. She's been all over the world, dresses like a little princess, looks like one too...cute girl. She's dating a German.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2018 09:19 AM by Spaniard88.)
11-30-2018 08:45 AM
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Enhanced Eddie Offline
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Post: #6710
RE: The Philippines thread
(11-29-2018 11:22 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  
(11-29-2018 07:35 PM)musicalprodigy1 Wrote:  Just left Manila this week, Nov 2018.
WGF is dead. No doubt about it.
I'm going to start suspecting we may now have WDF (White Demon Factor) when it comes to quality girls here in the Phils. I'm glad my arrangement is month to month, because I may have to explore other countries if this continues.

I predicted WDF in a post I made here back in July because I've seen it happen in other places. Salvador Brazil was super easy in 2002 and super hard in 2011. Total sex tourist destinations go from pussy paradise to "harder than back home" eventually.

Didn't think it was the case yet in the Philippines but I guess for quality women it's heading in that direction. I get lots of stares from Filipino males now in BGC, that wasn't the case even a year ago.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2018 09:47 AM by Enhanced Eddie.)
11-30-2018 09:47 AM
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RE: The Philippines thread
I feel quite silly writing this but the orange juice thing is real haha. "Orange juice" in the Philippines generally refers to a powdered juice drink. If it is real orange juice, it will be called "fresh orange juice" on the menu. You will never find it for any less than 200 pesos and it will generally be 300 or more. Still, this is sometimes just the juice of one orange mixed with water, ice and sugar syrup. If you want fresh juice, it's best to stick to the local fruits like pineapple, buko, guyabano etc which are all cheap, healthy and delicious.
11-30-2018 10:03 AM
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RE: The Philippines thread
(11-30-2018 10:03 AM)the-dream Wrote:  I feel quite silly writing this but the orange juice thing is real haha. "Orange juice" in the Philippines generally refers to a powdered juice drink. If it is real orange juice, it will be called "fresh orange juice" on the menu. You will never find it for any less than 200 pesos and it will generally be 300 or more. Still, this is sometimes just the juice of one orange mixed with water, ice and sugar syrup. If you want fresh juice, it's best to stick to the local fruits like pineapple, buko, guyabano etc which are all cheap, healthy and delicious.

Thank you.

I'm not the only guy suffering out here, hahaha.

And the actionable advice is appreciated and duly noted.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2018 10:16 AM by Spaniard88.)
11-30-2018 10:09 AM
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Spaniard88 Offline
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RE: The Philippines thread
Okay, I got another one.

Why is it that Filipinos' favorite spot to stand and chat is either the nearest highly congested hallway, or if they can't find that, then the entrance to a busy stairway, both electric and not electric? Why in God's name...

I've never seen this in America, but I can't count the number of times I've had Filipinos stop to chat, like if it's the most normal thing, right in the middle of a crowded hallway in the most densely populated metro on the planet?!?!?! That or they go right to the base of the electric stairs, and oh yeah, it's time for a 5 person, non-moving chat.

Duuuuuude!

I'm not even asking for Japanese style "move to one side so anyone that wants to go even faster has a clear space," that would be asking for too much, but at least, at the very least, don't block hallways that are actively in use, at that very second, by hundreds of clearly visible people!

I'm just saying.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2018 10:17 AM by Spaniard88.)
11-30-2018 10:15 AM
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RE: The Philippines thread
(11-30-2018 10:03 AM)the-dream Wrote:  I feel quite silly writing this but the orange juice thing is real haha. "Orange juice" in the Philippines generally refers to a powdered juice drink. If it is real orange juice, it will be called "fresh orange juice" on the menu. You will never find it for any less than 200 pesos and it will generally be 300 or more. Still, this is sometimes just the juice of one orange mixed with water, ice and sugar syrup. If you want fresh juice, it's best to stick to the local fruits like pineapple, buko, guyabano etc which are all cheap, healthy and delicious.

There's a certain cafe that I used to eat at that charges 7 dollars for a glass of orange juice in Makati. I had to do a double take because for a second I thought I was in the Maldives or Monaco or some shit. And I bet if I ordered it, I would get some shitty Metamucil looking concoction slammed on my table like Spaniard had gotten. You have to ask them about everything and then watch them get annoyed because they don't understand you or they hate working for a living.

Better to have your gf deal with all this nonsense.

vvs diamonds dancing like petrouchka
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2018 10:40 AM by Il Bersagliere.)
11-30-2018 10:29 AM
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RE: The Philippines thread
The prices in Philipphines seem like a rip off whenever I read this forum or watch vlogs off YouTube. But I even remember meeting travelers in Thailand, nearly 10 years ago, who said they found the Philippines to be an expensive place.

Just this morning in Taipei I went to a juice stand that was selling 400ml of fresh orange juice for 60 NTD ($1.95) and also went to a breakfast sandwich shop where I had a pork egg burger for 30 NTD ($0.97). Western fastfood prices are noticeably cheap (but hey that's true for McDonalds in Hong Kong too). And Pizza Huts have all you can eat buffets for $10. But something like TGIF will be expensive I guess.

Even when I watch vlogs of Thailand - sometimes I wonder about the prices there. Like yesterday I saw an American vlogger said he bought a KFC Zinger for 89 Baht ($2.70 USD) but I'm pretty sure it's the same price in Taiwan.

Or another example is I like buffets. Taipei's W Hotel has a Seafood Buffet for $65 (unlimited lobster tail - I ate like 5 tails on my last visit there). Whereas Philipphines has a famous buffet called Spiral but the price is $60 (but no unlimited lobster as far as I can tell).

Kind of weird that Taiwan seems to have lower food prices than Philippines and maybe the equivalent to Thailand.

I guess that's the power of male sexpatting has on the consumer pricing index in places like Thailand and especially Philippines (especially if the locals are too broke to partake in 'luxury' food more than a few times of the year).


But of course Thailand smokes Taiwan out of the water in terms of housing (and some 2nd / 3rd tier Philippines like Angeles looks good on AirBnb too).
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2018 07:17 PM by BaatumMania.)
11-30-2018 07:02 PM
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RE: The Philippines thread
Good to hear you made it there, Spaniard88!

Hope all is well
11-30-2018 07:30 PM
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RE: The Philippines thread
Whats Y'alls advice on finding a place?

Looks like Airbnb is overpriced in most Philippine cities.

I plan on doing a tour of the country, hit Cebu, Manila, Davao, some islands, then settle for a place.

I'm young and on a tight budget trying to make it work abroad.
11-30-2018 08:03 PM
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RE: The Philippines thread
(11-30-2018 07:02 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:  But of course Thailand smokes Taiwan out of the water in terms of housing (and some 2nd / 3rd tier Philippines like Angeles looks good on AirBnb too).

What's your total food bill in Taiwan?

What about housing?

In the Phils, $650 to $900 gets you a decent, furnished, all bills paid, but very small, month to month place in Cebu or Metro Manila in a walkable location. You can get cheaper by signing contracts (but then there's deposits), going unfurnished (but then you have to buy furniture and possibly build it), or going outside of AirBnB (but then you don't have the benefits of AirBnB and would be using another payment system). You can also get cheaper by looking for a while and finding and negotiating a good bargain on AirBnB. I've seen guys get $200 apartments, unfurnished here. I can't live like that, I'm not here to shop for furniture or to throw it away or sell it every time I move. They also set up their own utilities, and I just gotta say ain't nobody got time for that.

So in Taiwan, let's say I wanted a furnished place, located next to a shopping center so that you don't need a car (I don't want to be in the middle of nowhere), all bills paid, with high speed wifi, month to month, in a city of a million people or more. What's the range Baatum?
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2018 08:07 PM by Spaniard88.)
11-30-2018 08:07 PM
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Spaniard88 Offline
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RE: The Philippines thread
(11-30-2018 08:03 PM)chrisblackbeard Wrote:  Whats Y'alls advice on finding a place?

Looks like Airbnb is overpriced in most Philippine cities.

I plan on doing a tour of the country, hit Cebu, Manila, Davao, some islands, then settle for a place.

I'm young and on a tight budget trying to make it work abroad.

It's not overpriced, though, that's the market price. If you're on a budget, the Philippines isn't the place for it, you'll end up paying for it one way or another. I suppose you could call it overpriced, as in, it's not a value compared to some other countries in SEA, but then, it kind of is when you factor in not having to make a visa run, in regards to the cost in both funds and time spent doing those. It depends, though.

That said, if you're willing to pay for it in time and risk of deposit not being returned, you can get a longer term place that's unfurnished that is also all bills paid. I've seen guys find places like that for $200 or $300 a month by looking locally, sometimes even furnished, but don't expect something that looks real nice. You can also go down to the $100 a month, unfurnished, plus bills range, but then you risk saying goodbye to your laptop as soon as you leave it at home and your place gets broken into.

I'm thinking Taiwan might be a better value, but I don't have a handle on the cost of a month to month rental there...there's AirBnB's, but some seem to be at crazy prices. Hoping Baatum can shine some light on the situation there.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2018 08:16 PM by Spaniard88.)
11-30-2018 08:11 PM
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Post: #6720
RE: The Philippines thread
WGF is well and alive and thriving here. It’s amazing....
11-30-2018 08:23 PM
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RE: The Philippines thread
I did an Expedia and AirBnB comparison for within 1 kilometer of Makati's Mall of Asia (and forgive me if there's a better landmark but I guess Mall of Asia is the big attraction there).

https://www.expedia.com/Manila-Hotels-Pi...nformation

I found this within 1 kilometer of Makati. Near it is a McDonalds, Jolibees and a lot of food places to eat it. Definitely cheaper than the 'cheapest' AirBnBs in that area. Then you would either walk or take an Grab / Uber to Mall of Asia / other locations. And I always kind of like hotels for their check in desks.

Thing is about hotels is the girl situation is always unclear. Hotels might refuse your guest or want a bribe. AirBnB owners almost never cockblock their guests because they often don't live in the same building.
11-30-2018 08:39 PM
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Post: #6722
RE: The Philippines thread
(11-30-2018 08:23 PM)Jaygg Wrote:  WGF is well and alive and thriving here. It’s amazing....

Hmmmmm...let's take a trip down memory lane with Jaygg...

(11-29-2018 06:18 PM)Jaygg Wrote:  Yessssss Ukraine is always safe and the best option in the entire world

^^ Ukraine thread.

(11-29-2018 01:34 AM)Jaygg Wrote:  French girls are the worst.

^^ French thread.

(11-26-2018 11:29 PM)Jaygg Wrote:  Best city in the world to bang girls!!!

^^ Bangkok thread.

(11-27-2018 01:56 PM)Jaygg Wrote:  Kiev is the best city in the world to bang hot girls.... went there a few months ago and had the time of my life. They’re not sluts you can bang easily but put in effort/don’t think you’re owed anything, and you’ll be amazed. Quality was extremely high

^^ Ukraine thread.

Bullshit

I smell a slut, semi-pro, or pro hunter.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2018 08:50 PM by Spaniard88.)
11-30-2018 08:44 PM
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Spaniard88 Offline
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Post: #6723
RE: The Philippines thread
(11-30-2018 08:39 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:  I did an Expedia and AirBnB comparison for within 1 kilometer of Makati's Mall of Asia (and forgive me if there's a better landmark but I guess Mall of Asia is the big attraction there).

https://www.expedia.com/Manila-Hotels-Pi...nformation

I found this within 1 kilometer of Makati. Near it is a McDonalds, Jolibees and a lot of food places to eat it. Definitely cheaper than the 'cheapest' AirBnBs in that area. Then you would either walk or take an Grab / Uber to Mall of Asia / other locations. And I always kind of like hotels for their check in desks.

Thing is about hotels is the girl situation is always unclear. Hotels might refuse your guest or want a bribe. AirBnB owners almost never cockblock their guests because they often don't live in the same building.

Come on now, Baatum, hotels? This isn't amateur hour, man! We're in long term location independence land here, no one needs to be cockblocked or even potentially cockblocked. Also, more importantly, the little candies in the fridge that you pay for if you eat them? That's dangerous for someone like me, there's a fat man inside me trying to get out at all times, man, I can't have nice, cold chocolate a few feet away from me constantly tempting me.

It's just not happening. It's one thing to have the discipline to not buy chocolate every time I go out, that takes a lot of my willpower as is, but to not eat it if it's right next to me, at a perfect temperature? That's a bridge too far.

Hotel wifi can suck ass too at times.

Let's just not include hotels in this particular conversation. Although I understand they have a place in the lives of forum members who only have freedom for 2 weeks out of the year or whatnot.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2018 08:51 PM by Spaniard88.)
11-30-2018 08:48 PM
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BaatumMania Offline
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Post: #6724
RE: The Philippines thread
(11-30-2018 08:48 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  Although I understand they have a place in the lives of forum members who only have freedom for 2 weeks out of the year or whatnot.

Yeah of course for the plebs. Bu you know I am often doing 1+ month in each neighborhood / city these days. AirBnB is my choice in that case. If I super loved a place and wanted a 6+ month contract then I would do the old fashion door-to-door or scouring Facebook but honestly every place wants to make me want to kill myself after 3 months (the world is so boring for a seasoned traveler).
11-30-2018 08:55 PM
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Post: #6725
RE: The Philippines thread
That W hotel in Taipei is a blast! Every guy should hit it if they are in town.

A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
11-30-2018 09:07 PM
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