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Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
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TheKantian Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
All you have to do is read around the blogs and you'll realize that it's more right than left. Similarly, "red pill" has come to encompass more than just game.
04-16-2014 09:35 PM
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Van Zan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
Given the current political climate in the U.S., I'd say this is a right-leaning strain of ideology. Forget the parties because those are built to cater to the masses and are built with huge swaths of the population on top of being bought and paid for. We're a very narrow segment of that population, practically a special interest group sans the lobbyists and PACs.

It seems to me a lot of the things we rail against here are constructs of the leftoid mind and a lot of those who rail against us are coming from that very same place. Feminism certainly isn't associated with the right. I don't see a lot of clamoring for and support for all the non-traditional traditions that society is coming up with every given day. Everyone here seems all about making your own way without the help or hindrance of the government in your way. If anything we seem to be the kind of men the founders were thinking of when they wrote the constitution. And the left could give fuck-all about that document.
04-16-2014 09:41 PM
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poutsara Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
Red pill thinking is about figuring out what the truth is while being as unbiased as possible. While the truth may not change quickly, our understanding of it will. It's adapting.

It's learning how much you don't know, accepting this lack of understanding, and dealing with the world anyway.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2014 11:48 PM by poutsara.)
04-17-2014 11:48 PM
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Libertas Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
Well, one of the essential features of red pill thinking is its rejection of this abstract notion of equality - that all features of humanity are essentially equal. This in a way makes it somewhat right wing in that sense.

Though it isn't necessarily all right. Mainstream conservatives are fools and many red pillers may sympathize with aspects of the far left's criticisms of capitalism, for example (this even includes me in a few ways). There's nothing inherently antithetical to the red pill in that sort of thing.

Red pillers run the gamut, but in its makeup it is more right wing than left.

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(This post was last modified: 04-18-2014 02:51 PM by Libertas.)
04-18-2014 02:50 PM
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Orion Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
Male and female are equal - in value. They both posses character that other sex deems as valuable. Problem appears when one sex starts moving away from it's sex role, and hence, moving away from it's biological goal - for males, building empires, and for females, making empires feel like home. Male who has no home to return to, is a lonely bitter warrior, female who did not build one is a lonely cat lady.

If two genders came to be through evolution - than you cant argue with powerful mother nature - for she gave us our features to survive, not be eradicated, like dinosaurs.
If two genders were god's will - then who are you to question the almighty creator ?

How can one who denies that genders have their biological and therefore social roles, can ever be considered wise ?
04-18-2014 04:57 PM
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Sp5 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
(04-18-2014 04:57 PM)Orion Wrote:  Male and female are equal - in value. They both posses character that other sex deems as valuable. Problem appears when one sex starts moving away from it's sex role, and hence, moving away from it's biological goal - for males, building empires, and for females, making empires feel like home. Male who has no home to return to, is a lonely bitter warrior, female who did not build one is a lonely cat lady.

If two genders came to be through evolution - than you cant argue with powerful mother nature - for she gave us our features to survive, not be eradicated, like dinosaurs.
If two genders were god's will - then who are you to question the almighty creator ?

How can one who denies that genders have their biological and therefore social roles, can ever be considered wise ?

Sorry, both sexes are not equal in value. On a reproductive basis, women are much more valuable. Why? Supply of eggs is much lower than supply of sperm. The gestational availability of a woman to spend nine months pregnant is much more valuable than your ability to shoot your load once.

Rollo wrote about this; understanding it and how it plays out in society is part of the red pill. It's the underlying reason why women have been protected. It's not fair or unfair, it is what it is.
04-18-2014 05:25 PM
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Orion Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
I clearly stated

Quote: They both posses character that other sex deems as valuable

For us, their fertility and homemaking skills are valuable. They are not valuable to them obviously. Which is natural, since our very existence depends on it. That's the essence of duality.

If you want to know what equality looks like, just remove the law and all institutions from the picture. In such picture, men and women do not have time or possibility to antagonize.

So while we did create law and institutions to make our lives easier and our rights protected, there is no way to "negotiate" meaning of term "equality". Equality means everyone starts the race from the same line. Women cannot win the wealth and influence gathering race with men because they have to raise child for more than decade. Men cannot win the affection race with women, because child has been sucking from her tit while she was singing him lullaby ever since the kid came out of her womb.

So when feminists combat this with their feminist affirmative action, not only the combat equality, but they combat mother nature/god.

There is simply no way further than nuclear family. The only option is hunter-gatherer kind of society applied to 21th century, but i fail to see it's possible superiority in promoting either of mentioned. After all, hunter-gatherer society was society of obligations. Try to oblige someone today to look after a child when he does not want to do so.
04-18-2014 07:13 PM
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edtf Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
Red pill is the ability to see things for what they truly are and adapting yourself in order to maximize your success in the environment you live in.

In some sense, Charles Darwin is the first one to originate and intellectualize this concept.
04-21-2014 10:25 PM
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jariel Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
I'm not sure how a concept like "red-pill thinking" could somehow fall into the fake left wing-right wing paradigm.

Now that I think of it, I can't see how anyone can consider themselves a "red-pill thinker" and miss the falsehoods created by such a paradigm.

Let's let things be what they are and stop trying to put things into a box where they don't belong.

Red-pill thinking is really a part of growing the fuck up. As you go through life, you start to realize that this journey you're on is of your own creation, and the little white lies you were told as an "adolescent" did more harm to you than anyone intended.

You ultimately end up having to re-educate and re-inform yourself as to what the fuck reality is, because it is whatever it is to you, it's not some blanket thing that everyone lives under in exactly the same way.

We may physically be in the same environment, but we do not all live in the same world.
04-21-2014 10:38 PM
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felix_vagabondo Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
Red-pill is most importantly the decision to discard the false illusions perpetuated by the failing "leading edge" of postmodern culture (Blue-pill), which is somewhat interchangeable with political correctness. Once the blinders are off, or for those who were never a part of Blue pill culture in the first place, sure, there is a very typical pattern of turning to misogyny (hatred of women as opposed to mere anti-feminism) and patriotic populism. But taking the Red Pill, rejecting or "waking up from" PC culture, does not in and of itself require that the seeker go down a path of anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. More likely, the seeker will begin to accept what was already obvious: that women do not want to have sex with compliant "nice guys," that nation-states are institutions of immense value to human society, and the indispensability of military power, police, and borders, among other things, without which a nation would cease to exist. But once you have taken the Red-pill, you are in theory then free to explore on your own the world of ideas, unburdened by the delusions and distortions of Blue pill, which is an inherently authoritarian ideology, exercising thought-control, and redoubling its defense of, rather than questioning, fallacies such as the intrinsic moral superiority of victims over their perceived oppressors, or that such-and-such rape joke "isn't funny" even though it might have satisfied the basic definition of funniness, which is having induced laughter in an audience. Unable to engage intelligently and critically with its political adversaries, Blue pill defends its facade with the dehumanization of anyone perceived to be questioning of its dogma, which is stifling to intelligent conversation. Blue pill is militant; its intellectual counter-party in what could be a civil conversation becomes a hostile enemy force, subject to any and all countermeasures, undeserving of good faith, the benefit of the doubt, or basic compassion, and there is an intense focus on "calling out" or summarily destroying perceived transgressors or opponents, often without due process, all the while purporting to advance an agenda of enlightened humanistic love and optimism. Blue pill is an ideology that has existentially failed, and reacts by assuming a defensive position, retreating from public discourse into "safe spaces" and lashing out viciously at any and all perceived threats. Red Pill takes hold when the seeker begins questioning the SJW dogma of cheap moralism, for example, by exploring the utility of concepts like "victim mentality," and the incoherence of identity politics, in which the white liberal flatters himself with the mantle of multiculturalism and the rapture of martyrdom (the strange pleasure of penitence) while, as Zizek put it, "graciously" encouraging other identities to assert their own cultures. Anyone who isn't caught up in that pathetic game can see right through it, and from the outside it appears blatantly ridiculous and hypocritical. When I'm talking to somebody who is really a Blue pill person, you can easily observe their lack of original thought, because they all repeat the same ideas, almost verbatim. They've been fed a standard script for how to talk and think, and it locks them into a set of ideas that, like a prisoner tethered to a computer simulation in The Matrix, they're unable to question or explore more deeply. That is why Blue-pill people are also known in the Manosphere as Non-player Characters (NPC) as, though they are physically present in society, their inability to engage their senses with reality or think critically renders them irrelevant to the real action of exploring and hashing out or contributing to developments in politics and philosophy. History and the development of ideas has, in a sense, passed these folks by, but they remain unwilling to relent. The result is chronic political defeat due to beliefs that are paradoxical, since they're unable to accommodate new information that originates from outside of the Blue-pill echo chamber. Thus, the Blue-pill person experiences cognitive dissonance, since they're unable to square up, for example, the fundamental supposition that private markets are inherently evil with the fact that industrial society is on track to eliminating severe poverty in the world, nor can they admit to themselves the paradox of railing against social hierarchies while at the same time participating and reinforcing them, including in the sexual domain, as does every human being and many of the animal species with which we are genetically related. The absurdity of Blue pill is encapsulated in the observation that, while vehemently decrying the injustice of social hierarchies, SJW culture simultaneously embodies its own hierarchy, one based on the exalted passion of victimhood, the inferiority of "cisgender white males," and on displays of verbal virtue-signalling, or the flaunting of one's "wokeness" and/or another person's "problematic" qualities. Above all, Red Pill is a recognition that much of the suffering in the world is not somehow the "fault" of "white male capitalists," but is rather an immutable feature of human life itself, far outdating the industrial era. Furthermore, it appreciates the basic premise that a revolutionary sentiment, and the demonization of authority, denigrates an existing structure that has and is, before our eyes, made life much freer, more abundant, convenient, and peaceful. It is an appreciation of the basic conservative premise that human society is a precious, fragile and complex structure built by the toil of successive generations, upon a foundation that was established by fundamental human nature, biology, God, or what-have-you. Although activism and Progressive thought has contributed to this collective effort, it would be immature and evil to suggest that we ought to do away with much of the existing structure, including gender and property, upon which our common prosperity depends.
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2019 08:38 PM by felix_vagabondo.)
04-20-2019 08:30 PM
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Sp5 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Is red pill thinking neither left or right wing?
Enough value to paragraph and make more readable

(04-20-2019 08:30 PM)felix_vagabondo Wrote:  Red-pill is most importantly the decision to discard the false illusions perpetuated by the failing "leading edge" of postmodern culture (Blue-pill), which is somewhat interchangeable with political correctness.

Once the blinders are off, or for those who were never a part of Blue pill culture in the first place, sure, there is a very typical pattern of turning to misogyny (hatred of women as opposed to mere anti-feminism) and patriotic populism. But taking the Red Pill, rejecting or "waking up from" PC culture, does not in and of itself require that the seeker go down a path of anti-Semitic conspiracy theory.

More likely, the seeker will begin to accept what was already obvious: that women do not want to have sex with compliant "nice guys," that nation-states are institutions of immense value to human society, and the indispensability of military power, police, and borders, among other things, without which a nation would cease to exist. But once you have taken the Red-pill, you are in theory then free to explore on your own the world of ideas, unburdened by the delusions and distortions of Blue pill, which is an inherently authoritarian ideology, exercising thought-control, and redoubling its defense of, rather than questioning, fallacies such as the intrinsic moral superiority of victims over their perceived oppressors, or that such-and-such rape joke "isn't funny" even though it might have satisfied the basic definition of funniness, which is having induced laughter in an audience.

Unable to engage intelligently and critically with its political adversaries, Blue pill defends its facade with the dehumanization of anyone perceived to be questioning of its dogma, which is stifling to intelligent conversation. Blue pill is militant; its intellectual counter-party in what could be a civil conversation becomes a hostile enemy force, subject to any and all countermeasures, undeserving of good faith, the benefit of the doubt, or basic compassion, and there is an intense focus on "calling out" or summarily destroying perceived transgressors or opponents, often without due process, all the while purporting to advance an agenda of enlightened humanistic love and optimism.

Blue pill is an ideology that has existentially failed, and reacts by assuming a defensive position, retreating from public discourse into "safe spaces" and lashing out viciously at any and all perceived threats. Red Pill takes hold when the seeker begins questioning the SJW dogma of cheap moralism, for example, by exploring the utility of concepts like "victim mentality," and the incoherence of identity politics, in which the white liberal flatters himself with the mantle of multiculturalism and the rapture of martyrdom (the strange pleasure of penitence) while, as Zizek put it, "graciously" encouraging other identities to assert their own cultures.

Anyone who isn't caught up in that pathetic game can see right through it, and from the outside it appears blatantly ridiculous and hypocritical. When I'm talking to somebody who is really a Blue pill person, you can easily observe their lack of original thought, because they all repeat the same ideas, almost verbatim.

They've been fed a standard script for how to talk and think, and it locks them into a set of ideas that, like a prisoner tethered to a computer simulation in The Matrix, they're unable to question or explore more deeply. That is why Blue-pill people are also known in the Manosphere as Non-player Characters (NPC) as, though they are physically present in society, their inability to engage their senses with reality or think critically renders them irrelevant to the real action of exploring and hashing out or contributing to developments in politics and philosophy. History and the development of ideas has, in a sense, passed these folks by, but they remain unwilling to relent.

The result is chronic political defeat due to beliefs that are paradoxical, since they're unable to accommodate new information that originates from outside of the Blue-pill echo chamber. Thus, the Blue-pill person experiences cognitive dissonance, since they're unable to square up, for example, the fundamental supposition that private markets are inherently evil with the fact that industrial society is on track to eliminating severe poverty in the world, nor can they admit to themselves the paradox of railing against social hierarchies while at the same time participating and reinforcing them, including in the sexual domain, as does every human being and many of the animal species with which we are genetically related.

The absurdity of Blue pill is encapsulated in the observation that, while vehemently decrying the injustice of social hierarchies, SJW culture simultaneously embodies its own hierarchy, one based on the exalted passion of victimhood, the inferiority of "cisgender white males," and on displays of verbal virtue-signalling, or the flaunting of one's "wokeness" and/or another person's "problematic" qualities.

Above all, Red Pill is a recognition that much of the suffering in the world is not somehow the "fault" of "white male capitalists," but is rather an immutable feature of human life itself, far outdating the industrial era. Furthermore, it appreciates the basic premise that a revolutionary sentiment, and the demonization of authority, denigrates an existing structure that has and is, before our eyes, made life much freer, more abundant, convenient, and peaceful.

It is an appreciation of the basic conservative premise that human society is a precious, fragile and complex structure built by the toil of successive generations, upon a foundation that was established by fundamental human nature, biology, God, or what-have-you. Although activism and Progressive thought has contributed to this collective effort, it would be immature and evil to suggest that we ought to do away with much of the existing structure, including gender and property, upon which our common prosperity depends.
04-21-2019 04:43 AM
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