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Do you feel left out?
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rudebwoy Away
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Post: #51
RE: Do you feel left out?
I am slightly older than most members on this board, I too use to be that guy who sd in X amount of years I will get find my wife and get married/kids etc. Life unfortunately does not work like that, as you get older you get picky and your options get limited. Do you really want to marry the ex party girl who raves about the fun "times"? But the irony is that these same girls reach an age (31+) and think they will find a decent man that will marry them plus give them the two children they desire.

How many girls over 30 do you find attractive and smart at the same time.?

I do not envy any of my hitched up friends, truth be known they envy my lifestyle more. These times can be great for the single man who is willing to think outside the box and not be a corporate slave. I looked at my male co-workers who are hitched up and they are complete saps, case in point was the recent valentines day. Dudes actually took the day off to be with there loved ones and make elaborate plans (spending large sums of money). WTF

I would rather travel to far away places, heck planning for my next trip already. Emailed a couple of girls online and some are already asking me to meet for drinks.

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(This post was last modified: 02-17-2011 03:12 PM by rudebwoy.)
02-17-2011 03:11 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Do you feel left out?
(02-17-2011 03:01 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Are we talking about the same Dennis Rodman that wore a wedding dress on his book cover and talked about wanting to fuck another man in the ass?

Yes, I forgot to mention genius marketer. He wore that dress to his book launch release party in NYC. It was all about shock value and getting the media to talk about him. (good or bad). Basically, just trying to sell books. It was right around the time he was dating Madonna and I heard she schooled him in how to use controversy, sex and sensationalism to sell his books, etc.

As far as fucking guys in the ass, maybe he is bi-sexual, but, i doubt it. I bet Madonna told him to say that just to attract gay fans and be even more controversial. All to make money.

That being said, its gonna hard for me to defend him. He has done alot of bone-head shit also.

I just respect the fact that he came from nothing, became an all time great athlete, had orgies with Madonna, and never gave a shit what anybody thought. Even today he is still living life on his own terms. If he was white he would be considered a hero.

And as far as "Feeling left out". I'm sure Dennis would say that the guys who are living a boring, miserable life are the ones who should feel like they are missing out on.
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2011 04:10 PM by Giovonny.)
02-17-2011 03:15 PM
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speakeasy Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Do you feel left out?
(02-17-2011 03:11 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I am slightly older than most members on this board, I too use to be that guy who sd in X amount of years I will get find my wife and get married/kids etc. Life unfortunately does not work like that, as you get older you get picky and your options get limited. Do you really want to marry the ex party girl who raves about the fun "times"? But the irony is that these same girls reach an age (31+) and think they will find a decent man that will marry them plus give them the two children they desire.

How many girls over 30 do you find attractive and smart at the same time.?

I do not envy any of my hitched up friends, truth be known they envy my lifestyle more. These times can be great for the single man who is willing to think outside the box and not be a corporate slave. I looked at my male co-workers who are hitched up and they are complete saps, case in point was the recent valentines day. Dudes actually took the day off to be with there loved ones and make elaborate plans (spending large sums of money). WTF

I would rather travel to far away places, heck planning for my next trip already. Emailed a couple of girls online and some are already asking me to meet for drinks.

If you want to marry a young girl that's family oriented, you could always meet one in some place like the Phillipines or Thailand if you like Asian girls. I think older Western guys have success at getting young Russian women too. There are options if you take a global perspective. I could be married by now if I wanted to, I've had opportunities. My last real relationship, I dunno sometimes I wonder if I made a mistake, she was very sweet, family oriented, supportive, not combative and sassy, easy to get along with, not a slut, was willing to please. She was nothing like the stereotypes everyone here has of American women. Maybe I fucked up in letting her go because she was a really good girl, but I know her goal was marriage and I just don't want a serious commitment to anyone right now. I was open to it at first when I started dating her but as time went on, I felt less and less like that was what I wanted right now.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2011 03:39 PM by speakeasy.)
02-17-2011 03:38 PM
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oldnemesis Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Do you feel left out?
(02-17-2011 03:11 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I am slightly older than most members on this board, I too use to be that guy who sd in X amount of years I will get find my wife and get married/kids etc. Life unfortunately does not work like that, as you get older you get picky and your options get limited. Do you really want to marry the ex party girl who raves about the fun "times"?

Well, it is definitely an option. For example I would actually prefer an ex-party girl with "been there, seen that, got tired of that crap" mentality to a homely girl who never had any such experience and is wondering what it is all about. Some of those girls actually get into the "catch up" mode in their thirties, trying to experience in one year what others experienced in their whole twenties.

Quote:But the irony is that these same girls reach an age (31+) and think they will find a decent man that will marry them plus give them the two children they desire.

Indeed. Surprisingly here in US this is what a lot of them actually manage to do. In Ukraine or Russia it is much less likely, and once she approaches 35 the probability goes down to almost zero as most of those decent men who are single, not drunkards or chain smokers and make good money have a good selection of 25-30yo girls willing to spend time with them.

Quote:How many girls over 30 do you find attractive and smart at the same time.?

Much more than in their 20s. As for me the major obstacle in dealing with female crowd in their early twenties is their incredible stupidity. I'd rather pay $300 than spend three hours talking to a stupid person who thinks she is very smart. However it get better when they grow up, as at least some of those stupid 20yo get a beating from our cruel real world and learn a lot, so they get smarter in their 30s.

Quote:I looked at my male co-workers who are hitched up and they are complete saps, case in point was the recent valentines day. Dudes actually took the day off to be with there loved ones and make elaborate plans (spending large sums of money). WTF

I found it interesting when people try to cherry-pick the negative examples. No offense, but it makes an impression that you are not secure enough in your thoughts, and not sure you're doing it right. This comes from the examples which look like you're trying to justify your lifestyle to yourself. This, however, is meaningless. There are happy couples and unhappy couples. There are happy singles and unhappy singles; I've met some of them teaching English in Thailand. It is not about whether you have a relationship or not, it is about how you live your life.
02-17-2011 08:36 PM
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rudebwoy Away
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Post: #55
RE: Do you feel left out?
Oldnemesis my post is my opinion, so you analysis does not mean much to me. If you like a party girl that has been around the block then you are a better man than me. I am not knocking all women in there 30's, heck I even prefer dating them b/c it seems easier. My problem is that women in this age range tend to break down physically and age badly. My last gfe was ten years younger than me and my friends thought she looked older than me, yes I am vain.
Your comment about Russia/Ukraine/EE is spot on, girls above age 30 are viewed as lepers or dinosaurs in there countries. Probably explains why I met so many in the UK.
I never said there were not any unhappy couples, my folks have a great marriage and deep down I am looking for that. This is a different world to the one they grew up in.

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02-17-2011 10:59 PM
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tomtud Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Do you feel left out?
Hmmmmm, NO I don't feel left out. Yes, some of us may have family members or our parents on our cases when will we settle down etc etc etc.... But, all I can say is from my experience how many of my friends are either divorced or wished that they hadn't got married.

I am willing to settle down as they put only if I meet the right girl.... sounds cliche nowadays, but like many, the older we get , the more pickier we become and finding that elusive someone is a daunting challenge. Well,,, in the end I won't feel left out because I can say I gave it an honest effort in finding someone.
02-17-2011 11:23 PM
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Saladin Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Do you feel left out?
(01-28-2011 04:34 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  
(01-28-2011 09:00 AM)kimleebj Wrote:  Japan is not a signatory to the Hague Convention on Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction... .
There are 82 outstanding child abduction cases in Japan... .
But the State Department has said it is not aware of any case where the Japanese courts have returned a child abducted to Japan to the United States.[/i]

It is the same in a lot of countries. Russia, Thailand, most of Eastern Europe. Generally when a baby is born in US, and one or both his parents have foreign citizenship, he gets US citizenship because he was born in US, and one or two foreign citizenship since he inherits the citizenship of his parents by the laws of his parent country. It results in funny cases - for example, my kids are citizens of three countries right now.

What it means, that if one parent grabs the child and flies back to the country the child is citizen of, for that particular country legally it looks like a baby was brought home, and typically there are no legal means to force the country to "deport" its citizen. Especially if the sole reason for that is that an US court said so. Now if someone manages to bring the child back to US out of that country, it will be classified as "child abduction" by local authorities as well. There were several well-published cases in Russia in 2010.

Woah, your kids are citizens of three countries. Thats pretty awesome.
02-18-2011 12:54 AM
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oldnemesis Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Do you feel left out?
(02-17-2011 10:59 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Oldnemesis my post is my opinion, so you analysis does not mean much to me. If you like a party girl that has been around the block then you are a better man than me.

Yes, I guess I am. I don't think I ever asked a single girl how many guys she slept with. This is something completely irrelevant to me, as unfortunately it doesn't even translate to sexual experience directly. Obsession with the girls who had very few sexual partners is one of those things which I call "Western man weakness".

Quote:I am not knocking all women in there 30's, heck I even prefer dating them b/c it seems easier. My problem is that women in this age range tend to break down physically and age badly.

Are you talking about fifties? A woman in her 30s who breaks down physically must be a heavy alcohol/drug user, or should have some serious disease. I'd say most chicks in US look better in their thirties comparing to their twenties, because they finally start taking care of themselves, and have the resources to do so.

Quote:My last gfe was ten years younger than me and my friends thought she looked older than me, yes I am vain.

Wow, you really care what your friends/family/colleagues think about your girlfriends, your work, your lifestyle? To me it would be the last thing I'd care about. The only thing which matter is whether I'm happy in this relationship or not, and everyone else is encouraged to keep their opinion to themselves, or they can suck my dick.

Quote:This is a different world to the one they grew up in.

Yes, a lot of things are much easier now. For example, living together for a few years is not frowned upon as it was forty years ago. So there is now even less excuse for shitty marriages.
03-18-2011 11:12 AM
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RE: Do you feel left out?
It's never too late to get settled
03-18-2011 11:58 AM
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Gmac Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Do you feel left out?
(01-25-2011 03:03 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  Left out as a result of following this lifestyle. i.e not "settling down" and get married as per conventional societal norms.

I was looking at the pictures of all my friends that I went to school and university with and they all have pictures with their smiling families, kids, wives etc. etc. And then there are pictures of their childrens life milestones. All of a sudden I just felt left behind. Their kids are growing up and here I am still looking for the next bang or the cute 18 year old. I mean some of my friends that got married when they were like 21 and are beginning to have daughters that I might consider hitting on.

Makes me wonder.

Not really. I actually kind of feel sorry for them. I understand parenthood can be a great thing but I'm definitely not ready for that now -- I'm still way too selfish and I wanna live my life first.

Vice-Captain - #TeamWaitAndSee
(This post was last modified: 03-18-2011 05:44 PM by Gmac.)
03-18-2011 05:44 PM
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Samseau Offline
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RE: Do you feel left out?
Quote:
Quote:The terms almost always favor her, you will lose out no matter how you cut it. Either your kids, your paycheck, your existing earnings... etc. In fact, the most perverse aspect of today's marriage laws is that the more successful your marriage has been, in terms of how long it has lasted, the more you stand to lose and her to gain if you divorce. Fucked, no?

I don't understand what you say. In California and other community property states, for example, it is 50/50 split of everything gained during marriage - no matter how long your marriage lasted, or whatever. Hard to see how those terms would favor her, unless the guy was a moron who married a girl which did not want to contribute to the marriage in any way. In that case it is not a problem with legal system either - the law did not force him to marry that particular girl. Could you provide a specific example?

If the woman divorces you, she gets the kids 80% of the time or whatever. For whatever stupid feminist reasons, the courts give physical custody to the women for the vast majority of cases. This is my biggest beef with divorce laws.

Next are the money issues. If you made more money, she gets more money. The spouse who contributes more to the marriage is the one more likely to be screwed in a divorce. It's reverse incentives at its finest.


Quote:
Quote:Not in my experience. Wives get bored regardless of where they live. In fact, couples usually live where the wives want to live. Most men today don't even have the balls to ask their wife to quit her job for the kids or stay in the house or whatever. Most wives get exactly what they want, in terms of logistics, and she will still get bored.

What you're essentially saying that some dudes out there are pussies who cannot stand up for their interests, so they got screwed. This is true, but again this definitely doesn't mean there is something wrong with marriage itself. If one does not want to put any effort to protect his own interests, why would anyone else do? The adult world is tough place, and those people who are doormats will get screwed by everyone, including their families, spouses, employers and so on.

This isn't about men being pussies, which most are. This is about women becoming bored regardless of their life-choices and moving onto other men. You state that most women become bored because men force women to stay at home. I say no, most women who become bored do so because women get bored easily, regardless of their surroundings. They whine and bitch about whatever they are doing and nothing changes that.

But I agree that standing up to your potential wife is a must.

Quote:
Quote:Sexual faithfulness only matters to me insomuch it matters to her. If she insists on strict monogamy, but then grows bored and flighty and were to cheat on me, I would probably feel destroyed in that I wasted years of my life being monogamous to a women who ultimately lies to me (by cheating on me).

What's important is her integrity, not her actual sexual behavior. If she tells me she wants a commitment but is actually someone who would grow bored and move onto some other dude (like most women I've seen as they get older). Conversely, if she says "I don't care if we sleep with other people, as long as we can stay together" then I would find this just as appealing. I want an honest woman over anything else. (less than 1% of girls, perhaps?)

This is the main reason sexual faithfulness in term of "sacred promise" has no value for me, because it forces people to do things which are not natural to a lot of them. Comparing to that, a non-monogamous marriage does not force any of you to have sex with others, so it is much less restrictive.

Considering that integrity is more important for you than sexual faithfulness, I'd suggest making it straight to any lady you're considering for LTR that "I don't care if we sleep with other people, as long as we can stay together". Explain the same rationale as you posted above - that a lot of people are discovering every day that they cannot be faithful, so you don't want your relationship to fall into the same trap. You may be genuinely surprised how many of them would agree to that.

I really like the idea of an open relationship type of thing. I'll try pushing for it, never really occurred to me women might find it acceptable. I've always assumed monogamy is the default relationship state for females.

Quote:
Quote:You may think I'm overly negative, but I'm reporting you the facts as I've experienced them from other older men's lives I've seen firsthand. Less than 80% of the men I've talked to who are over 40 years old have never been divorced. What a shit deal.

The Census statistics says the divorce rate for the first marriage is roughly 50%.

Fuck the census. Divorce stats have been unreliable for years.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/c...orces.html

Click on the first link. Open the excel sheet. Now observe how years 1998 and beyond have divorce stats which are completely compromised:

"Divorce rate excludes data for California, Colorado, Indiana, and Louisiana; population for this rate also excludes these states."

"Provisional data. Includes nonresidents of the United States."

I suspect divorce rates are around 60% for WHITES, at least.

Quote:
Quote:If mothers do such a good job, why are most people in this country so messed up in the dating scene? Why are white populations declining? This is all caused by a lack of proper rearing by the parents, and since women have more control over the children, it follows they are more to blame.

Using the same logic the fathers are the ones to blame as they surrendered all the control over the children education to women while limiting themselves to fishing, drinking and playing video games. For example, when I go to the kids playground in a public park, I'm typically the only guy here. And quite a few ladies mentioned that they would love it if their husbands also took a walk with kids, but they're always too busy or whatever.

You mean those husbands who have been banned from the house because they got divorced? Or the husbands who avoid their wives and dare not stand up to their wife because they know a divorce would rob him of his children?

Before no-fault divorce, birth rates were high, children grew up to be somewhat decent human beings. I do not interpret this as mere coincidence.

Quote:
Quote:Really? So all of those divorced couples were never attracted to each other when they got married? Why did they get married in the first place?

There may be a lot of reasons why they get married. Peer pressure (esp. families), legal issues (green cards), financial issues, pregnancy and so on.

So extremely high divorce rates are due people who are attracted to each other getting married because of peer pressure, legal issues, financial issues, pregnancy, and other external factors?

Somehow I doubt this. I think people are genuinely in love when they marry, but, as love is fleeting, divorce each other as they lose attraction for each other. And this happens despite of how balanced the relationships "value" is! Riddle me fucking that, batman.

Most older couples I see simply stay with each other out of obligation, not love. This is fine and dandy, but the problem is that few women will stay in a relationship out of loyalty. This is why finding a good wife is difficult.

Quote:
Quote:Okay, you have a rich wife. In this case, my nanny argument doesn't hold. But it does apply to many successful men who earn more than their wives.

No, I found a wife which works a lot, and makes probably 70% of what I make; the rest comes from her spending time on taking care of me and our kids. None of us came from rich families, and by Bay Area standards we're as rich as top 20% of local population.
My point, however, is that she is what I was looking for. I did not marry a random girl from the street expecting her to make similar to what I do, and I've disqualified well over 500 girls before I found her.

Now why those successful men married the ladies who earn much less than them if this was something important to them? I guess, because their other expectations were not balanced, and they had to compensate for the imbalance in value.

You raise a fair point and your decisions have served you well in life. I will remember what you have done.

Quote:
Quote:Obviously, you would need to do your research and weigh in the trade-offs. No country has a perfect situation. But if finding a good woman is important, then it's probably a smart alternative for most men.

I'd say if one has problems to find a good woman in their own cultural environment, it would be even more difficult in the different culture environment unless you know that different culture very well and you are into that. To give you an idea, it takes 2-3 years living here in US for a Russian to come to conclusion that our culture is so different from any Western culture that we are very unlikely to get a long-term healthy relationship with Westerns, no matter how good other qualities he or she would possess.

You might be right, I don't know. But foreign cultures seem to offer endless opportunities...

I don't care enough to continue the conversation about being married without a marriage certificate. It was just a thought experiment and I think you've sufficiently refuted it.

Quote:
Quote:I'm not counting on shit. I don't need a marriage and I don't want one if it means enslaving myself to a dying nation state.

This is fine as well - if you don't want to get married, nobody forces you to do so. You just need to be honest with yourself about that. The problem is not that marriage is wrong, or all local women are unfit to be married. The problem is that your expectations exceed your qualifications. Same as above: the problem is not there are no jobs in US. The problem is not even that there are no 10M a months jobs. There are. The problem is that you don't have qualifications to land such a job, which means your expectations exceed your qualifications.

What you can do is to say to yourself something like "I would only consider getting married when the value in relationship is very imbalanced. It is extremely unlikely that anyone of the similar value as mine would agree on those terms. This means I have to either work to add more value while keeping my expectations the same, or I have to accept the fact that I will never get married". Again, nothing wrong with that, especially if you're in early twenties.


I'm not sure why you make such claims; my expectations for a wife aren't very high. They are simple:

1. Gives good boners
2. Integrity (the toughest one!)
3. Not a bitch
4. Giving


She doesn't need to be a 10/10. She doesn't need a lot of money. She doesn't need to be smart (but it's a plus), or be good in bed (we can work on that). She only needs the above four things and I'd be happy. I'm not asking for much. And no, so far, after chasing girls for probably 2-3 years, on and off (between college and shit), can't even find one girl to display these qualities. The girls who give boners are invariably fucked up in some way, whereas the ugly ones are sweethearts. The search continues.

(In hindsight... I may have fucked it up with a girl I fucked over the summer. She was older than me by five years, but she seemed to meet the criteria listed above. Still, I didn't consider the idea of an open relationship and assumed she was expecting monogamy from me, which was too much. I knew as we aged the boner requirement would be lost.)
03-30-2011 11:24 PM
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Westsider Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Do you feel left out?
Any man considering marriage has more minefields to navigate than just the divorce laws... there is also the woman herself. Here is an excerpt from a psych wesbite that struck a nerve with me the other day.

'This shift in mate preference through the menstrual cycle aids in women’s overall evolutionary goal of marrying nice, resourceful men (“dads”), and cuckolding them with handsome, masculine men with higher levels of testosterone (“cads”).'

(here is a cut version of the link, I hope Roosh doesn't kick me out for this: http://www.psychology today.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200811/you-really-can-judge-book-its-cover)

If you don't know what "cuckolding" means, it is "fucking behind your back".

Anybody who's either 1) had a intro to bioanthropology class and/or 2) dealt with women knows that they want to A) spend rich men's money and B) fuck criminals (or other guys with bad attitudes).

The former are "Dads", and the latter are "Cads".

Dads get goldug, and cads get fucked.

Which would you rather be?

Moreover, do you really want locked into a relationship where the sex quickly disappears as soon as you "put a ring on it" (e.g., went from 'cad' to 'dad'), and your wife starts getting the irresistible urge to fuck the pool boy because he has a tattoo and a motorcycle?

Don't say you weren't warned.

As an aside, I've been talking to a friend of mine from the Middle East, and he says the way society is set up in some of the rich Gulf countries combines Western-style affluence with Old World-style social conservatism.

As a result, the men are happy, and the women aren't homewreckers.
03-31-2011 08:48 AM
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hydrogonian Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Do you feel left out?
Quote:I'm not sure why you make such claims; my expectations for a wife aren't very high. They are simple:

1. Gives good boners
2. Integrity (the toughest one!)
3. Not a bitch
4. Giving

haha...good list. I'd have the same. The only thing that I disagree on is that these expectations "aren't very high" for a woman. In the USA, and most of the west, you may as well ask that she have three titties and two vaginas as well. You might find this rare woman, but you are then contending with a culture that does its best to destroy these qualities in women who incidentally don't have the foundational indoctrination/upbringing that will cause her to be able to ignore bad influences her entire life. Even if she is initially kind, etc... In other words, western women can change in the blink of an eye.

I'd say that Asia is the best bet for the above qualifications, although you'd have to define 'bitch' to disqualify that term from Asian female behavior. I've learned that a western man's perception of what a bitch is can be easily met by an Asian woman if you aren't aware of the differences that will bring inevitable culture clash. However learn the differences and I think that Asian culture, in general, can provide the women that can best give all of the above. Also, Asian women can better appreciate your qualities as a western male enough, in contrast to what she is used to form the native males, not to want to cheat with the bad boy. Not always, but in general.

Also, I can get it up for older Asian women much easier than older western women. As you age, if you pick a girl with the right physique, an Asian woman is more likely to keep that physique well into her fifties than is a western woman. There are a lot of older Asian women with the body of a sexy 18 year old. You have probably noticed them, but assumed them to be 35-40 at the most. Therefore, you didn't register that it was actually a hot older woman. Its pretty common, although less so in Asian women that live in the west. Bit if you get a good sexy one, then she might be able to fulfill criteria #1 for two or three decades longer than an average western woman.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2011 11:16 AM by hydrogonian.)
03-31-2011 10:54 AM
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oldnemesis Offline
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RE: Do you feel left out?
(03-30-2011 11:24 PM)Samseau Wrote:  If the woman divorces you, she gets the kids 80% of the time or whatever. For whatever stupid feminist reasons, the courts give physical custody to the women for the vast majority of cases. This is my biggest beef with divorce laws.

Next are the money issues. If you made more money, she gets more money. The spouse who contributes more to the marriage is the one more likely to be screwed in a divorce. It's reverse incentives at its finest.

Women are getting the kids 80% of the time because a lot of men really do not want them. And this is not really a "win" for her if you consider how much time kids take. Her earning ability will go down significantly (no long hours, no night shifts). No vacations either as kids get sick quite often, and the vacation time is used for dayoffs. Same with her dating abilities - just going out is already a significant problem which requires significant planning ahead. How many guys would be happy dating (and being faithful to) a chick who can reliably only get out every second weekend?

Money only make difference to some point; for example, if she makes 100K and you make 150K it doesn't make a lot of difference as nobody gets alimony anyway. And there are other things - for example, if she is a teacher, she's not making a lot of money. However not only you get good health/dental benefits through her, but you are also eligible for her pension. Add things like cooking, home maintenance - those are efforts too, and I do count them. Taking care of kids - typically women spend more time with kids than men. Just counting money without considering any other efforts is unfair.

Quote:I say no, most women who become bored do so because women get bored easily, regardless of their surroundings. They whine and bitch about whatever they are doing and nothing changes that.

I disagree here. Every married woman I know is only complaining that there is not enough time to do everything they wanted to. Could you show any example when a woman who had a job she liked, and a husband of similar value but still got bored? Unless her husband is crazy jealous and possessive (which sadly seems what a typical US dude is), I don't really see it happening.

Quote:I really like the idea of an open relationship type of thing. I'll try pushing for it, never really occurred to me women might find it acceptable. I've always assumed monogamy is the default relationship state for females.

A lot of women find it acceptable if you introduce it properly. Especially Western women, they seem to like the idea of being able to fuck around if they want to. I'd even say this may give you more value points, considering that a lot of guys here in US are of jealous "do not even look on other guys" type.

Another way is by trading your value. For a truly monogamous woman your desire of open relationship lowers your value. However she may still accept it if your value is otherwise higher than yours. The benefits of this case is that you might get an one-side open relationship, while your spouse is theoretically free to fuck around, but she doesn't do it because she is not interested in it.

Quote:I suspect divorce rates are around 60% for WHITES, at least.

Interesting. You claim Census data is inaccurate, without providing any information how much is it inaccurate (0.5%? 5%? 50%)? But what you offer instead is your suspicions? At least Census data is based on facts. What is your suspicion based on?

Even if Census data is inaccurate, one would assume its inaccuracy is a constant. Then it is still good enough to see the trend. And, from this link, the divorce rates seem to be pretty consistent during the last 30 years, varying around 50%.

Quote:You mean those husbands who have been banned from the house because they got divorced? Or the husbands who avoid their wives and dare not stand up to their wife because they know a divorce would rob him of his children?

I made it clear in the post above: And quite a few ladies mentioned that they would love it if their husbands also took a walk with kids, but they're always too busy or whatever, so your allegations are not appropriate.

Quote:Before no-fault divorce, birth rates were high, children grew up to be somewhat decent human beings. I do not interpret this as mere coincidence.

It looks like you interpret the "before no-fault divorce" as "a woman could not get a divorce if her husband was against it". This is simply not true, she just needed to lie in the court - which was what a lot of people did, and this was the main reason to adopt no-fault divorce laws. It also raises an interesting point: are you saying that if you marry, you MUST stay together till the rest of your life even if you two are clearly incompatible? If yes, why? If not, why are you against no-fault divorces?

Birth rates go down across all industrial nations. This is a worldwide trend which cannot be attributed to change in divorce laws in the US.

Quote:So extremely high divorce rates are due people who are attracted to each other getting married because of peer pressure, legal issues, financial issues, pregnancy, and other external factors?

I don't see extremely high divorce rates - they have been pretty constant during the last 30 years. Actually the US is not even the leader in the world divorce rates (Belgium is). The USA has about 49% rate, putting it between Austria and Luxemburg.

Quote:Somehow I doubt this. I think people are genuinely in love when they marry, but, as love is fleeting, divorce each other as they lose attraction for each other. And this happens despite of how balanced the relationships "value" is! Riddle me fucking that, batman.

Similar value is A requirement of a successful LTR, it is not THE requirement.

Quote:Most older couples I see simply stay with each other out of obligation, not love. This is fine and dandy, but the problem is that few women will stay in a relationship out of loyalty. This is why finding a good wife is difficult.

A lot of long-term couples I know are also very good friends, not just lovers. Think about it: do you get rid of your friends when your "love" to them wears off, or when you get used to them?

Quote:You might be right, I don't know. But foreign cultures seem to offer endless opportunities...

... to win or to lose. This is just a riskier game for Americans comparing to US - you can win more, but you also can lose more. The imposed restrictions are also not for everyone - for example, I'm absolutely sure I don't want to live in Thailand the rest of my life.

Quote:I'm not sure why you make such claims; my expectations for a wife aren't very high. They are simple:

1. Gives good boners
2. Integrity (the toughest one!)
3. Not a bitch
4. Giving

What you're essentially saying that you want a "nice attractive girl with a good personality". Well, if you said you want an ugly bitch who is drama queen and only thinks about herself, THAT would be unique. But your description is completely meaningless. Ask every other guy, and he'll tell you he wants it too. This is a problem - if you don't really know what you're looking for, you will not recognize it once you find it.

Now let me show you where it breaks apart. Would you still consider the girl who perfectly matches your criteria from above, but also:

- Has been convicted for one or more minor crimes (like shoplifting)?
- Has a very low sex drive (she is still giving - she agrees to sex to make you happy, but she never initiates it, and it is clear to you that she doesn't really enjoy it);
- Has been divorced, and/or has a kid from prev marriage (or even out of wedlock);
- From a very different social background - i.e. a Muslim, or a black girl;
- Works as an escort or exotic dancer;
- Is an incredibly stupid or boring person (some very beautiful girls are);

Note that those are not obvious turnoffs - a lot of guys, me included, married a girl who matched one or more of criteria listed above. This is just to point out that defining what you're looking for is much more difficult than most people imagine.

Quote:She doesn't need to be a 10/10. She doesn't need a lot of money. She doesn't need to be smart (but it's a plus), or be good in bed (we can work on that). She only needs the above four things and I'd be happy. I'm not asking for much. And no, so far, after chasing girls for probably 2-3 years, on and off (between college and shit), can't even find one girl to display these qualities. The girls who give boners are invariably fucked up in some way, whereas the ugly ones are sweethearts. The search continues.

It looks like you're paying more attention to girls looks than personality. If you are looking for LTR, this is not right. I'd concentrate on personality first, looks are not that important. Better find out a girl with good personality who accepts open sexual relationship. Then you can fuck those who give boners and have shitty personality.
04-01-2011 12:37 AM
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oldnemesis Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Do you feel left out?
(03-31-2011 10:54 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  You might find this rare woman, but you are then contending with a culture that does its best to destroy these qualities in women who incidentally don't have the foundational indoctrination/upbringing that will cause her to be able to ignore bad influences her entire life.

A nerdy chick with little to no friends may actually be a good candidate.

Quote:I'd say that Asia is the best bet for the above qualifications, although you'd have to define 'bitch' to disqualify that term from Asian female behavior.

That was one of my search criteria - she must be Asian or mixed Asian. It is a good start criteria as it wipes out a significant number of females. Meaning, you do not waste time.
04-01-2011 12:41 AM
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TudoBem Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Do you feel left out?
(01-25-2011 10:35 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  
(01-25-2011 08:15 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Sometimes I wish I did not think this way, but being married to the same women does not make any sense to me.

Are your friends truly happily married?

And it is not them being married to the same woman and smiling happily that makes me feel left out. It is that they are procreating, they are creating the next generation that will bear their name and run their businesses. They are building out their family and their gene pool. Isn't that the the ultimate alphaness? What use is being an Alpha if at the end of the day your genes die with you.

I absolutely do not think humans are meant to be in monogamous relationships for 50 years or more. This is an absurd construct of our culture. Yet, I do think we mere made to procreate. And this is where I am feeling left out. The alphas of history gave birth to hundreds of offspring each that eventually became the basis of tribes, cities and cultures. It is thought that Genghis Khan himself had 10,000 children. Don't we owe it to our legacy to start building out our own little dynasties?

Rather than delve into the pyschological explanation for your procreation desire, I will offer a simple solution to your dilemna - become a sperm donor in at least 6 different major cities. Your genes will be spread further and wider than Genghis Kahn.
01-03-2012 05:31 PM
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mofo Offline
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RE: Do you feel left out?
Sometimes
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 09:26 PM by mofo.)
01-03-2012 06:25 PM
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mofo Offline
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RE: Do you feel left out?
lol
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2016 11:50 AM by mofo.)
01-03-2012 06:30 PM
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Prowl Offline
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RE: Do you feel left out?
Holy fucking multi-quotes Batman

I saw Dennis Rodman at Dean's Gold strip club in Miami back in November. Pretty cool.


Anyway:

1.) Why the fuck would any of you want to marry a woman your own age?


2.) Happiness is bullshit, don't pay attention to people's projected happiness on Facebook, it's a lie. There's no such thing as an ongoing state of happiness. Happiness is a bang, or just beating a red light, or a bite of foie gras, the company of a friend, etc. It's here and gone again in seconds. Aim to be happy TODAY and aim to make yourself a better person EVERY DAY and the rest will take care of yourself. Surrounding yourself with obligations like wives and children isn't going to make you any happier than that will.

DISCLAIMER: I don't know what I'm talking about and my posts are opinion, not advice.

Gmac Wrote:your time > her feelings
01-05-2012 09:42 AM
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doctorlove Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Do you feel left out?
Old nemesis, your situation is unusual, finding a woman who is even semi attractive who earns over 100k is like a white rhino. And most of them are in fashion or models or something along those lines where straight men are non existent.

The smartest thing to do would be to marry a girl who doesn't mind living in any islamic country or the philpines. No man will mess with your wife their because they'll get punished in jail for 10+ years for adultery. also you can still travel wherever you want.

She cannot legally bring your kids outside the said islamic country because it would be kidnapping. And you should only marry her in the religious way not legally, that way she will have no standing in case she tries to sneak into america.

It is possible to gain full custody as long as you hire the woman as a surrogate mother and have iron clad contract written up. Problems can arise when a woman changes her mind and wants her kid back, but it is best to get a surrogate from out of state or Utah because Utah makes it impossible for anyone who has given up a child to get them back after 30 days. Michael Jackson is probably the best example of a man with a surrogate kid(s)

I also agree with samseau that the number 1 killer of relationships is female "boredom" once she pulls out the B card it is all over.
01-07-2012 09:26 PM
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MMM Offline
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RE: Do you feel left out?
(01-25-2011 07:13 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Those happy pictures represent 0.1% of their actual life. The time between them is quite mundane and often depressing.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/20...essed.html

Hell yes. Ditto for my wife's facebook photo page. Its an idealized take on our family life.
01-08-2012 08:54 AM
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JayMillz Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Do you feel left out?
(01-25-2011 03:03 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  Left out as a result of following this lifestyle. i.e not "settling down" and get married as per conventional societal norms.

Nope, the exact opposite. God willing, I feel like I could always have a kid. I'm more mature now and think I would be a better father. In the meantime, I have more disposable income and travel all over the world, which is something I enjoy. Both single and married men I know display envy when I describe my vacations as opposed to spending another week at the in laws in Baltimore.
01-08-2012 09:01 AM
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Post: #73
RE: Do you feel left out?
(01-26-2011 06:39 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  A long time friend of mine just today wrote me an email saying how tough his life is right now. He's about my age, has his wife and daughter and newborn son, runs his own business and he's really stressed out with the day in day out intricacies of family life. He loves his family and all but he's under a lot of stress to provide, spend time with his kids and tend to his business all at the same time. Of course nobody would ever know this stuff just from browsing a few of his family photos on facebook. You just don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

Even these PUAs, you might think they are living the life, but in that book The Game, it starts off with Mystery being suicidal. You'd think with all that pussy he's getting and traveling around and stuff he'd be happy as a kid at Disneyland, but you never know what kind of demons people have bogging them down that you don't know about. Of the truly happy people I've met, they seem to be humble people with simple needs and not a whole bunch of expectations. Some fisherman in a small village in Costa Rica is probably happier than than the likes of a Mystery or your salary man with the 9-5 job and big mortgage.

I'm learning to avoid glamorizing the life of others. Forge your own path in life that works for you.

Quite true. I've seen many simple people are just content and hence, HAPPY!

Desire: Root of all Misery - Buddha
Contentment?

The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.
- Garry Kasparov | ‏@Kasparov63
01-08-2012 06:28 PM
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Post: #74
RE: Do you feel left out?
I know where you're coming from.
It's a feeling of wanting the next stage in life...it's pretty natural.

I don't know your age,but I'm guessing you've done a few years of the bars and clubs and it's not doing it for you anymore,and you feel like moving on.

I started getting this feeling around 34...actually strong Broody feelings,wanting kids...thought it would happen when I got with a Brazilian who got back in touch with me at 35.5...but due to logisitics it didn't work .
Although ,she was Hot to get pregnant on our first meeting.
She didn't want to have full sex while fertile the next 2 meet ups when the reality of living between 2 countries dawned and she was worried about money.

So now just turning 39 I'm more than disappointed it didn't happen and you do start to wonder if it will happen,while young..ish and my parents are still alive ,and especially with a girl you love and trust and respect,not just one because you want kids.

You do start thinking about the path of life and time.Realising it does end someday.

But you have to be positive and get on with life...at least you know what you want,that's a positive...you have that yearning.

But you do have to look at the glass as half full..for sure..I'm learning that...otherwise you just retreat in despondency and that:

1. Is highly unattractive quality
2.It's a HUGE waste of time


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01-13-2012 08:51 PM
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