Read The Forum Rules: We have a clear set of rules to keep the forum running smoothly. Click here to review them.

Post Reply 
First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
Author Message
Dr. Howard Offline
Peacock
******
Gold Member

Posts: 6,691
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 78
Post: #76
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
^ from the above article, the author writes
Quote:As a straight-white-cisgender-heterosexual-male,
what the fuck. Thats as complicated as starbucks coffee.

The title was trolling, some weird dude touched his arm...so he wasn't even molested, he was raped....according to the current definition.

Maybe that's where the 'rape' victims will turn to next after that word is overused and no one cares. 'I was date molested at a frat party' so they can trivialize the experience of child victims now that they are done trivializing actual female rape victims.

Last, to the question of how many gay men might be involved with MRA, its to be expected I think...just think of how many lesbian feminists there are.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-27-2014 09:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Dr. Howard's post:
Days of Broken Arrows, TonySandos
Dr. Howard Offline
Peacock
******
Gold Member

Posts: 6,691
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 78
Post: #77
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
There is a live audio stream http://www.live365.com/stations/avoiceformen its good stuff from what I've heard so far. Certainly not 'game' related but information that I've never heard anywhere else related to domestic violence etc.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-27-2014 10:26 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Sumanguru Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 667
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 14
Post: #78
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
Paul specifically addressed the "molestation" on the audio feed. Said the same dude came up to him yesterday and also touched his forearm. Thinks the dude is lonely and harmless. Very sarcastic, joking about having to get over his "trauma."

Didn't give the best impression of himself, tbh, really does come off as angry. May not be the best rep for the movement...
06-27-2014 01:15 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
runsonmagic Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 1,999
Joined: Sep 2013
Reputation: 56
Post: #79
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
(06-27-2014 10:26 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  There is a live audio stream http://www.live365.com/stations/avoiceformen its good stuff from what I've heard so far. Certainly not 'game' related but information that I've never heard anywhere else related to domestic violence etc.

They're filmming parts of it too. This is very smart stuff. Academic accreditation, video and audio content... they're going to get a lot of media out of this.

Read my work on Return of Kings here.
06-28-2014 09:23 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Dr. Howard Offline
Peacock
******
Gold Member

Posts: 6,691
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 78
Post: #80
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
(06-28-2014 09:23 AM)runsonmagic Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 10:26 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  There is a live audio stream http://www.live365.com/stations/avoiceformen its good stuff from what I've heard so far. Certainly not 'game' related but information that I've never heard anywhere else related to domestic violence etc.

They're filmming parts of it too. This is very smart stuff. Academic accreditation, video and audio content... they're going to get a lot of media out of this.

yep, there is live video streaming today http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/internat...ve-stream/

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-28-2014 09:52 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Dr. Howard Offline
Peacock
******
Gold Member

Posts: 6,691
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 78
Post: #81
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
(06-28-2014 09:52 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-28-2014 09:23 AM)runsonmagic Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 10:26 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  There is a live audio stream http://www.live365.com/stations/avoiceformen its good stuff from what I've heard so far. Certainly not 'game' related but information that I've never heard anywhere else related to domestic violence etc.

They're filmming parts of it too. This is very smart stuff. Academic accreditation, video and audio content... they're going to get a lot of media out of this.

yep, there is live video streaming today http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/internat...ve-stream/

and props to Captain Capitalism on the book giveaways, clever self promotion.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-28-2014 10:36 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Dr. Howard's post:
Sumanguru
runsonmagic Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 1,999
Joined: Sep 2013
Reputation: 56
Post: #82
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
(06-28-2014 10:36 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-28-2014 09:52 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(06-28-2014 09:23 AM)runsonmagic Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 10:26 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  There is a live audio stream http://www.live365.com/stations/avoiceformen its good stuff from what I've heard so far. Certainly not 'game' related but information that I've never heard anywhere else related to domestic violence etc.

They're filmming parts of it too. This is very smart stuff. Academic accreditation, video and audio content... they're going to get a lot of media out of this.

yep, there is live video streaming today http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/internat...ve-stream/

and props to Captain Capitalism on the book giveaways, clever self promotion.

Just tweeted it:
https://twitter.com/runsonmagic/status/4...1774737408

They said he made a donation. Good for him. Support good causes, and promoting his work. Win-win.

Read my work on Return of Kings here.
06-28-2014 10:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes runsonmagic's post:
Sumanguru
Sumanguru Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 667
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 14
Post: #83
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
Got to hear Carnell Smith talk about paternity fraud this morning as I ran on the treadmill. Very energetic, emotional talk; not as many facts/stats as I'd like, but a ton of personal anecdotes.

I'm going to take a look at his site, http://paternityfraud.com/ when I get a free moment.

Meanwhile,

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mens-rights-c...e-feminism

Quote: Men’s rights conference takes aim at feminism
06/28/14 03:04 PM

By Adam Serwer

ST. CLAIR SHORES, Michigan – At what was billed as the first annual international conference on men’s issues, feminists were ruining everything.

“I call it the evil empire,” Erin Pizzey, the British founder of one of the first domestic violence shelters and a staunch anti-feminist, said Friday, borrowing Ronald Reagan’s description of the Soviet Union. “We need to go after them. We cannot allow this to continue. And if we don’t stop it, I don’t see a future for marriage, for love, or for anything.”

“We need to name names,” Pizzey said, “and first on my list is Hillary Clinton.” One of the few overtly partisan moments at the conference, it drew loud cheers and applause from the attendees.

The conference comes amid increased focus on women’s rights. The Supreme Court is poised to decide whether employers are allowed to refuse to cover contraception in their health insurance plans; college campuses and the military are working to combat sexual assault; and women’s groups are fighting for laws to close the pay gap between men and women. But for a group of activists meeting in Michigan this weekend, it’s men’s rights that are under attack.

Men’s rights activists have a long list of grievances. They say fathers have to navigate a family court system that unfairly privileges mothers in divorce, and that boys are falling behind in education. They worry about high unemployment among men and the fact that men are more likely to commit suicide. They argue that domestic and sexual violence against men is underplayed by the media, and that men are unfairly stereotyped as violent sexual predators. These are all fruits of a society where women are valued and protected, while men are not.

Many of the more than 100 attendees at the conference spoke of being prevented from seeing their children, or struggling financially in the aftermath of a divorce.

But those issues got short shrift from most of the speakers on the first full day of the conference Friday, hosted by A Voice For Men, an online hub for men’s rights activists founded by Paul Elam. What animated most of the speakers at the conference was feminism and how it needed to be defeated.

Although generally understood as an ideology of equal rights for women, at the conference such feminists were called “equity feminists,” discussed the way Democrats might refer to “sane conservatives” or Republicans to “good liberals.” In other words, a largely fictional exception whose purpose is merely to define the whole as extreme. Feminists, for many of the speakers, were the enemy.

Feminist activists had protested the original venue for the conference, the DoubleTree Hilton in Detroit, in early June. A Voice for Men said that they had moved the conference to the Veterans of Foreign Wars post in St. Clair Shores, saying that they had sold so many tickets the Hilton could no longer accommodate them. A spokesperson for Hilton said that “there were some obligations in their contract that they were unable to adhere to.”

“The protest really came out of the fact that what they say is not about men’s issues, it’s about violence against women, it’s about blaming feminism for issues that feminists in a lot of cases actually work [on],” said Amanda Levitt, a feminist activist and postgraduate student at Wayne State University who was involved with the protest. Levitt posted online an open letter from her and her fellow activists Wednesday, saying that “due to concerns for physical safety we have decided the best way to oppose the conference that is now going on in St. Clair Shores is to keep our distance.”

Conference speakers referred several times on Friday to threats of violence they said they had received, but no protest at the VFW hall ever materialized.

Still, the speakers had plenty to say about feminism.

Mike Buchanan, a British men’s activist, warned that feminism was the ideology of “female supremacists, driven by misandry, the hatred of men and boys.” For 30 years, Buchanan said, “feminists have worked through the state to attack many of the pillars of civilized society,” and become “the defining ideology, of the political establishment.”

At the conference, feminism was responsible for turning wives against their husbands, bleeding them dry in divorce proceedings and separating them from their children, levying false accusations of rape and abuse against good men, or creating an ever-present culture of hatred where men are vilified.

Though men’s rights activists who hosted the conference often say sexual assault against men isn’t taken seriously, the audience laughed when speaker Fred Jones mentioned his fears about his son being raped after being arrested in New Orleans.

“He’s kinda small and kinda cute, good looking, you know what I mean?” Jones said. “You know what they do with –” Jones cut himself off. But the audience laughed.

Barbara Kay, a columnist for Canada’s National Post, argued that Santa Barbara shooter Elliott Rodger couldn’t have been driven by hatred of women because “he hated women because they rejected him sexually, but he also hated men because they had access to women.”

Rape on college campuses, she added, was a myth perpetrated by man-haters, and the concept of rape culture, how society can tacitly approve of or rationalize sexual assault, was “baseless moral panic.”

“The vast majority of female students allegedly raped on campus are actually voicing buyer’s remorse from alcohol-fueled promiscuous behavior involving murky lines of consent on both sides,” she said, drawing chuckles from the audience. “It’s true. It’s their get-out-of-guilt-free card, you know like Monopoly.” The chuckles turned to guffaws.

Even the hashtag #bringbackourgirls, which emerged in the aftermath of the kidnapping of more than 200 girls in Nigeria, allegedly by the Islamist terror group Boko Haram, was an example of misandry, Kay explained, because there was not a similar response to the slaughter of a smaller number of boys earlier in the year.

Dr. Tara Palmatier, a men’s rights activist who advertises herself as a “shrink for men,” explained that “feminism has evolved from the radical notion that women are people, to the radical notion that women are superior.”

She diagnosed some women with what she called “golden uterus syndrome,” which she explained as what happens when a mother will “fleece your ex-husband in divorce court and take assets you didn’t earn, you deserve it, take that bastard to the cleaners, force a man into fatherhood with an accidental pregnancy, hey, if he wouldn’t commit, sometimes you gotta push him into it.”

Palmatier explained that in our selfie-obsessed, reality-TV culture, women are rewarded for their narcissism and men are punished for their natural urges. To make her point, Palmatier presented a slideshow titled ”Equitable relationships in the age of female entitlement: An oxymoron.” One of the slides showed a photo of an underage Miley Cyrus with the caption, “Quit objectifying me. You’re being rapey!”

“When men can be shamed just for being men, and women no longer have any sense of shame, it creates a dangerously lopsided dynamic between the sexes,” said Palmatier, who also denounced the ”rape culture hysteria being stoked across American college campuses.”

Most of the speakers on the first full day of the conference were women, a fact Palmatier noted proudly. ”I am the third presenter to speak at the first annual international men’s human rights conference, and that would be the third woman presenter,” Palmatier said to applause. “My aren’t we an interesting group of misogynists. I hate to tell you guys, but I think we might be doing it wrong.”
06-28-2014 05:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
runsonmagic Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 1,999
Joined: Sep 2013
Reputation: 56
Post: #84
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
Conference just ended. Very interesting. Might go next year.

Read my work on Return of Kings here.
06-28-2014 06:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Renzy Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 738
Joined: Apr 2014
Reputation: 9
Post: #85
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
Kudos to AVfM for not letting a forced venue change derail the conference. My guess is that in 20 years people will look back on the topics they bring up as common sense and wonder why our current generation didn't just "get it". Kind of like they'll wonder why anyone with a loan calculator and an amortization table chose to buy an overpriced McMansion during the housing bubble. And the answer will be the same- people just following the herd...
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2014 07:05 PM by Renzy.)
06-28-2014 07:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Renzy's post:
Dr. Howard, TonySandos
Sumanguru Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 667
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 14
Post: #86
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
The Men's Rights Reddit has compiled a collection of Youtube vids of the speakers. As far as I can tell it's a complete collection.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comme...es_at_the/

Also, USA Today ran a positive opinion piece by the husband of Dr Helen Smith.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/20.../11705389/

Quote:Are we coming to a truce in the gender wars? Or just opening a second front? Or, perhaps, actually starting to talk to each other?

Those are the questions I was asking myself as I attended the First International Conference on Men's Issues in Detroit last weekend. And, to be honest, I'm still not sure. But it's certainly true that the discussion is expanding, and I'm enough of a believer in discussion and engagement to think that's a good thing.

The first thing that struck me about the conference — both the speakers and the attendees — was how diverse the crowd was. (Full disclosure: I was there as a tag-along spouse while my wife spoke about her gender relations book, Men on Strike.) There were plenty of women there, which I suppose should be no surprise, as there are plenty of men at conferences on women's issues. There's even a women's group called The Honey Badger Brigade that supports men's rights.

There were also a lot of African-Americans — or, in the case of Canadian Sen. Anne Cools, African-Canadians. But it turns out, as we heard from speakers like Fred Jones, the victims of the gender war are disproportionately black, because black men are more likely to be jailed for failure to pay child support, or on charges of domestic violence.

Much of the talk revolved around domestic issues, which is to be expected, since that's where the rubber meets the road on gender issues and the law. Paternity fraud activist Carnell Smith talked about how many men — and, often, boys — are tricked into paying child support for kids that aren't even theirs. In most states, this obligation won't be discharged even if DNA tests prove that the fraud victim isn't the father, though legislation in Georgia and a few other states (pushed by Smith) has changed that.

British activist Erin Pizzey — founder of the first shelter for battered women in Britain — noted that women are as violent in relationships as men (some evidence suggests that they're becoming more so) but that law enforcement, courts and legislators continue to assume that men are always the aggressors. Indeed, another speaker, Barbara Kay, noted that things like rape and domestic violence are now portrayed on a "continuum" where men are concerned, so that a harsh word can be treated as on the "domestic violence continuum" or a lustful glance placed on the "rape continuum."

Many men, says Pizzey, are in relationships with violent and abusive partners, but have nowhere to turn: Shelters for men are effectively nonexistent, and the attitude of law enforcement and others is generally that a woman who is abused by a violent husband is a victim, while a man abused by a violent wife is a loser and a wimp — though, in fact, such men often stick around to protect their children from abuse by their violent partners.

Treatment of men in the media was also a big topic: Everyone is familiar with the way men, especially dads, are treated as bumbling losers in TV sitcoms and commercials, and the news media are generally much quicker to cover violence affecting girls than boys. (When the Nigerian terror groups Boko Haram kidnapped a group of girls, it got international attention and a hashtag campaign spearheaded by first lady Michelle Obama. When Boko Haram had burned a bunch of boys alive earlier, nobody much noticed.)

But although the specifics were interesting, the thing that struck me most about the gathering was the palpable lack of gender tension. Men and women at this conference seemed to be on the same page, and the same team, in a way that seems almost surprising in these gender-divided times. Maybe that's because gender-talk, long a female domain, is also now about men. As another speaker at the conference, Warren Farrell, said, women can't hear what men don't say. So it's good that men are speaking up. As Farrell concluded in a Friday night dinner speech, the goal is "not a men's movement, not a women's movement, but a gender liberation movement."

With men and women both talking and listening, it gave me some hope that perhaps we'll see something new, and better, in the politics of gender. Will this spirit be able to overcome the politicized divisiveness that marks today's gender discussion? If enough men and women of good will come together, it just might.

Glenn Harlan Reynolds, a University of Tennessee law professor, is the author of The New School: How the Information Age Will Save American Education from Itself.

The HuffPost Opinion Piece is, of course, negative towards the Conference/MRAs

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arthur-gol...43418.html

Quote:I am going to be on HuffPost Live this afternoon to talk about the First International Mens Issues Conference, which I covered for the Southern Poverty Law Center (you can find my posts here and here). After that, I would love to retire from commenting on or even thinking about that world.

Not that men don't have issues to deal with-any group that comprises half of humanity is going to have a host of them. When I hear the horror stories about divorce courts, I'm as appalled as anyone (though I also understand that the vast majority of divorces aren't like the most contentious ones; millions of estranged couples do manage to rear their children together). As a father and husband, I get a little tired of seeing clueless husbands and bumbling dads on TV commercials too, though I don't think it rises to the level of misandry (the term that Men's Rights Advocates use to signify the obverse of misogyny). Beyond that, I will even concede that you can find actual examples of misandry, if you look for them in the writings and chatrooms of the most extreme man-haters (who do, of course, exist). Seek and ye shall find. It's a big world out there.

But defining feminism by the writings of Valerie Solanas is exactly like what a white supremacist does when he takes a white-hating passage from the manifestos of a group like the Nation of Islam or the New Black Panthers and presents it as the normative attitude of blacks, or what an anti-Semite does when he culls one of those Jewish supremacist passages from the Talmud and presents it as the normative view of everyone whose mother or father was Jewish. Defining your adversary as evil incarnate virtually guarantees that you will never be able to make an accommodation with them-which of course is exactly the point. Zionists who believe that not only the Palestinians themselves but anyone who expresses sympathy towards them are Amalek aren't going to be particularly effective peace makers. Men who believe that all women want to geld them aren't going to understand why women raise such a fuss about reproductive rights. Extremism perpetuates and exacerbates extremism.

I talk a lot about cognitive dissonance, but I think it provides a pretty useful frame for this particular theater of the gender wars. A lot of the debate is as heated as it is because the people who are engaging in it know how un-factual most of their premises are. Men aren't a persecuted minority; neither is "violation...a synonym for intercourse" (a quote from Andrea Dworkin, as I'm sure every MRA knows).

...
06-30-2014 02:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Deuce Anna Half Offline
Woodpecker
**
Silver Member

Posts: 399
Joined: Feb 2014
Reputation: 2
Post: #87
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
The conference made the Washington Post. Three guesses how it's been portrayed, first two don't count.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/st...story.html
07-01-2014 09:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
trian1 Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 428
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 9
Post: #88
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
(07-01-2014 09:01 AM)Deuce Anna Half Wrote:  The conference made the Washington Post. Three guesses how it's been portrayed, first two don't count.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/st...story.html

Well, they sent a bisexual female to cover it...
(Second-to-last paragraph: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...967_2.html)

That is like sending a white heterosexual male to cover a conference for African-American women. If an assigning editor tried to do that, they would meet immediate push-back.
07-01-2014 10:24 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
iknowexactly Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 5,420
Joined: Sep 2010
Reputation: 102
Post: #89
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
(06-01-2014 03:32 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  people like me who are strongly opposed to sexual equality number even fewer.

over 90% of patents are by men, I don't think that's a result of male opression.

More male geniuses for sure.

But let me clarify, if a girl scores higher than you on , say, the law school admission test, and everything else is equal, you want to get into the law school instead of her, because you're a guy?


"The goal of {amoral} capitalism is to reduce all human interaction to the cash nexus." L. D.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2014 10:39 AM by iknowexactly.)
07-01-2014 10:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
bacan Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,076
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 10
Post: #90
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
Front page of washingtonpost.com

I hate Monica Hesse though
07-01-2014 10:39 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Basil Ransom Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 4,877
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 112
Post: #91
RE: First International Conference on Men’s Issues, Hosted By AVfM
"But let me clarify, if a girl scores higher than you on , say, the law school admission test, and everything else is equal, you want to get into the law school instead of her, because you're a guy?"

No - the decision would be in private hands. That means removing government subsidies from graduate education, and also allowing lenders to charge women higher interest rates as the market dictates, and schools to discriminate as they see fit. If a school wanted to maximize its number of MBA grads in the workforce, taking fewer female MBA students might be a sensible move, given the propensity of female MBAs to drop out of the labor market.

Many women go to graduate school to prove how empowered they are and then lose interest within a few years, marry an affluent man, and bail out. It's an incredible waste of resources obviously, and would be a lot less likely to happen with less government intervention to foot the bill for them, leaving the taxpayer holding the bag.

Plus most legal practice is a drain on society created by a legal system with too many laws, that criminalizes too many actions, and employs resolutions that are too costly.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2014 10:11 PM by Basil Ransom.)
07-01-2014 10:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Basil Ransom's post:
Kingsley Davis, Brodiaga
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication