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Where do you meet model chicks?
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ManAbout Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-15-2011 11:39 AM)Luckystar Wrote:  Generations of dudes continue to do this. The industry is always on the look out for slimy photographers.
.

What's funny is that the industry consists of many, if not most, photographers who got into the business because they wanted to get close to models in the first place. So, now after being in it for a while, they have become part of the "industry". And think it's their duty to protect, innocent young models from "slimy photographers". LOL. It is all a matter of protecting their turf, nothing more.
02-16-2011 11:56 AM
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rivelino Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
"The industry is always on the look out for slimy photographers."

let's take it further. our entire society is always on the look out for slimy men, period. for perverts. for pedophiles. for rapists.

that's right, don't forget. men are rapists and killers. we are the scum of the earth. we are evil.

OR

or you can see beauty and sensuality as a celebration of life. you can see capturing beauty and creating sexual energy as part of the joy of being alive. you can see being a man as a source of pride, and the chemistry with an attractive girl as just a small part of all the infinite beauty and positive energy of the universe.

fellas, this is called inner game. and i have to give tons of credit to my man yohami for helping me achieve it. still working on it. always working on it.

also, the book "no more mr nice guy", which talks about toxic shame. and also david deida's book "the way of the superior male". and also krauser and mode one and roissy of course -- although roissy is less spiritual.

anyway, i work on my inner game every day. it is the foundation of success. and i need to be constantly vigilant. because our feminized society blames men for everything. it attempts to blame our male sexuality for all the problems of the world.

i am a man and i am proud. i am proud to be a photographer, and to be part of a legendary group of artists throughout time who have been inspired by the beauty they see all around them.

being a photographer is being part of eternity. you capture the infinite beauty of the world with your lens. and you celebrate the infinite beauty of the universe.

learn the craft. be proud. hold your head high. and go take pictures of beautiful girls!
02-16-2011 12:12 PM
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rivelino Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
also, this is huge, and a whole other topic:

GIRLS LOVE BEING PHOTOGRAPHED

girls love being the object of male desire.

feminists deny it, but feminists are just angry, cold, bitter old women.

i have seen it before my eyes. give a girl the right kind of masculine, sexual attention, with your energy and your camera, and she will blossom before your very eyes. she will sparkle. she will shine. and she will WANT to be feminine for you. she will WANT to showcase her feminine energy and her feminine spirit and reveal her feminine soul -- because doing so makes her feel ALIVE and makes her feel BEAUTIFUL.

so you are actually adding value to her life and to her experience of the world. you are doing her a favor. you are making her feel special.

inner game, baby.

inner game.

life is beautiful.
02-16-2011 12:15 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-16-2011 12:15 PM)rivelino Wrote:  i have seen it before my eyes. give a girl the right kind of masculine, sexual attention, with your energy and your camera, and she will blossom before your very eyes. she will sparkle. she will shine. and she will WANT to be feminine for you. she will WANT to showcase her feminine energy and her feminine spirit and reveal her feminine soul -- because doing so makes her feel ALIVE and makes her feel BEAUTIFUL.

so you are actually adding value to her life and to her experience of the world. you are doing her a favor. you are making her feel special.

I love it when this happens.
02-16-2011 12:34 PM
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Luckystar Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-16-2011 11:56 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  
(02-15-2011 11:39 AM)Luckystar Wrote:  Generations of dudes continue to do this. The industry is always on the look out for slimy photographers.
.

What's funny is that the industry consists of many, if not most, photographers who got into the business because they wanted to get close to models in the first place. So, now after being in it for a while, they have become part of the "industry". And think it's their duty to protect, innocent young models from "slimy photographers". LOL. It is all a matter of protecting their turf, nothing more.

Agreed, most hetero photographers get into the industry to meet models. But other photographers are not the barrier. Its the gay/female fashion majority that are the vigilanties.

The time and energy of being a photographer is a poor investment from a financial standpoint. If the goal is to bang models, there are plenty other occupations that are more desirable to models (other male models, actors, musicians, bankers, lawyers, etc. - just pose as any - zero investment). I speak from experience on this.

If access to models is the issue, this can be addressed seperately while cultivating a better a more lucrative profession in terms of status, money, AND lifestyle. It's not hard to find models, trust me.

The opportunity cost of pursuing photography to bang models makes it possibly the most costliest method of scoring pussy (even when compared to P4P). The only way it makes any sense is if its on a part time deal.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2011 03:04 PM by Luckystar.)
02-16-2011 03:02 PM
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bluewater7 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
Hi Luckystar.. break this down more in your experience. I happen to agree. But its not always as abundant this way, depending on how you live. For example, there are plenty of super-wealthy men that I know that don't get the kind of pussy they really want (models, etc. etc.) because they are so fucking busy, etc.
02-16-2011 03:13 PM
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jfree Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-16-2011 03:02 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  The opportunity cost of pursuing photography to bang models makes it possibly the most costliest method of scoring pussy (even when compared to P4P). The only way it makes any sense is if its on a part time deal.

Or as a hobby. It can be a comparatively inexpensive way to connect with the very pretty girls (strictly non-pros... don't pay... just give her a copy of the best pics).

-Get some stimulating outfits... even allow her be creative and bring one of her own in addition.
-Go somewhere fun or beautiful and spend part of a day exploring and having her perform for you.
-Do it in the afternoon to early evening (especially the golden hour) for the best light.
-Have her bring a cute friend... they can take turns holding the reflector.
-Even use a hair/makeup person if you like... they almost always look better with the right touches.
-Pick up some fresh fruit and some wine or bubbly before or quickly in between locations or even swing by a bar/cafe for the more adventurous girls... they usually love the attention.
-Do it in a relaxed, playful, fun, but directed way and some girls will get really into it... like a brief fantasy with memories captured.

Fun, relatively cheap, something to do... and she won't forget you.

PS. The pics are a good reason for her to come to your place.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2011 03:11 AM by jfree.)
02-16-2011 03:58 PM
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rivelino Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
"The opportunity cost of pursuing photography to bang models makes it possibly the most costliest method of scoring pussy"

disagree completely. you could spend $2k to become a photographer, and then be a photographer for life. start at 30, end at 50 -- from a heart attack while having sex with two blonde 9.5s and and brunette 10 -- and it cost you $100 a year.
02-16-2011 10:21 PM
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Luckystar Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-16-2011 03:13 PM)bluewater7 Wrote:  Hi Luckystar.. break this down more in your experience. I happen to agree. But its not always as abundant this way, depending on how you live. For example, there are plenty of super-wealthy men that I know that don't get the kind of pussy they really want (models, etc. etc.) because they are so fucking busy, etc.

True, models are not always in abundance if you are in the top shelf corporate world. Time is an issue, but the key is to anchor around fashion weeks. I have been involved in Fashion Weeks every where from LA to Montreal. It is the best time to meet models and they are of course, in abundance. Furthermore, All the models are in competition with one another for attention, which makes them more approachable. They will naturely gravitate to those who hold status. So, its important to network on a regular basis with local designers and support them by buying some of their clothes. Not only will it enhance your wardrobe but the relationships will help you establish social proofing. Build a network of 'in' creative people, it will give you lots of cred.

Volunteer your professional services if you have any. Get involved with the organization, planning, after parties, etc. If you have real professional skills they need them for these fashion week events. It's not the typical lame 'can I take your ticket' volunteer work. You will be treated very well for supplying your professional expertise. You will eventually be associated with the industry without really committing yourself to it.

My biggest successes came from building a friendship with these two sisters that owned a lingerie company in LA. I approached them as someone buying lingerie for my gf. Over time, I was able to sit in on castings, fittings, and runways. I had a beautiful spacious studio apartment with minimalist design. I was always able to facilitate after show parties, and that was where the real opps were for me. It was the most rewarding friendships I ve ever built, for obvious reasons. I love lingerie models.
02-17-2011 05:40 PM
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Luckystar Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-16-2011 10:21 PM)rivelino Wrote:  "The opportunity cost of pursuing photography to bang models makes it possibly the most costliest method of scoring pussy"

disagree completely. you could spend $2k to become a photographer, and then be a photographer for life. start at 30, end at 50 -- from a heart attack while having sex with two blonde 9.5s and and brunette 10 -- and it cost you $100 a year.

You are talking about fixed and variable costs.

Opportunity cost is the cost of giving up one opportunity to pursue another. Example, if you give up an established investment banking job ($250K) to become an established photographer ($50K), your opportunity cost is $200K. It will cost you $200K a year to bang models under the dillusion that photographers are the only ones banging models.

Investment bankers have been using the 'models and bottles' phrase forever now. I m not proposing being an investment banker. It's just an example.
02-17-2011 05:51 PM
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rivelino Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
dude i am not saying quit your job to become a photographer. i am saying take it up as a hobby.

the bigger issue is i am not sure why you are attempting to dissuade others on this forum from giving photography a shot. did you give it a try and fail. talk to us, bro. we are all friends here.

everything costs money. clothes, champagne, the freaking dentist so your teeth are clean, everything cost money. you recommend buying clothes from local fashion designers -- a brilliant idea by the way, especially from local lingerie shops -- even more brilliant -- but again, money.

you have a beautiful, minimalist apt. again, money.

everything costs freaking money.

a nikon d40 on ebay costs $300. a sigma 30mm 1.4 lens for that nikon d40 costs $400. an 8gb sd card costs $50. a spare battery costs i don't know maybe $20.

for less than $800 you are an artist and you have status.
02-17-2011 07:24 PM
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rivelino Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
or you can bust your ass for ten years to become an investment banker.
02-17-2011 07:28 PM
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rivelino Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
i have a better idea.

don't spend $800 on a camera.

instead spend 20 years and $200,000 and become a brain surgeon.

THEN you will really get the babes!
02-17-2011 07:29 PM
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truedat Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
I agree with what Riv says about push/pull and model stuff, although I am not a photographer. Quick experience from yesterday which is haunting me!!!!

I was in the New Delhi India airport getting ready to fly to another city with 1-2 others at the ticket counter and the hottest fucking Indian girl I have ever seen in my life came and just cut me in line. I mean put their Bollywood crap to shame hot (dressed like a westerner with jeans etc.) In India if you let people push you around they will (man or woman) and she looked at me and i was fucking pissed and she knew it. Then she asked me if I was in line (like she didnt fucking know playing her notty little girl shit, ya right) I didnt even look at her but nodded yes fuming. Now she was put in her place and backed up (the push). After about 30 seconds I calmed down and took a look at her as was like WTMF. I seriously thought this girl HAD to be a model. She was stylishly dressed, not with her mommy like the rest of the girls here and was banging. So I asked her 'are you a model'? Instantly her eyes sparkled, and she smiled and said no in a British accent. Since she knew from earlier that I could snap her neck like a twig if she tried any bullshit I let her ahead of me because she had no baggage to check. Anyways she stepped aside after talking to the agent, i did my thing thinking she would be on my flight like a dumbass and I could close it in the next city and walked away being already caught up in my own work/travel shit.

After walking at least 1 minute, I turned around (just to see if she was looking) and she was staring at me. She must of been the whole time. Dont let life/pussy/money pass you by EVER.

Woman want to be models (desired). Woman also need to be put in their place to know that you are strong enough for them. Its nature.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2011 09:24 PM by truedat.)
02-17-2011 09:23 PM
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Luckystar Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-17-2011 07:24 PM)rivelino Wrote:  dude i am not saying quit your job to become a photographer. i am saying take it up as a hobby.

the bigger issue is i am not sure why you are attempting to dissuade others on this forum from giving photography a shot. did you give it a try and fail. talk to us, bro. we are all friends here.

everything costs money. clothes, champagne, the freaking dentist so your teeth are clean, everything cost money. you recommend buying clothes from local fashion designers -- a brilliant idea by the way, especially from local lingerie shops -- even more brilliant -- but again, money.

you have a beautiful, minimalist apt. again, money.

everything costs freaking money.

a nikon d40 on ebay costs $300. a sigma 30mm 1.4 lens for that nikon d40 costs $400. an 8gb sd card costs $50. a spare battery costs i don't know maybe $20.

for less than $800 you are an artist and you have status.

1. If you check my posts you will see that I stated the only way it makes sense is on the part time/hobby. So it looks like we are in agreement.

2. I m not proposing spending money on the bitches. I am proposing investing in yourself and enhancing your life. ie) clothes, a nice place to live, networking, etc. It's a better utilization of time for getting laid, unless you are truly interested in photography. But something tells me you aren't going to be spending afternoons snaping photos of butterflys and daisies.

3. If you are truly inspired by photography, Rivelino than go for it. I m not trying to dissuade anyone from taking up photography. I find it to be a beautiful form of art. But, to suggest it is the holy grail to fuck models is plain misinformation. It is hit or miss.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2011 10:05 PM by Luckystar.)
02-17-2011 09:53 PM
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Luckystar Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-17-2011 07:28 PM)rivelino Wrote:  or you can bust your ass for ten years to become an investment banker.

Again, read my post. I wasn't proposing becoming an investment banker. It was an example.

I told myself I was going to be nicer to ppl on the forum, but it's getting hard to be nice to you.
02-17-2011 09:55 PM
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Luckystar Offline
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RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-17-2011 07:29 PM)rivelino Wrote:  i have a better idea.

don't spend $800 on a camera.

instead spend 20 years and $200,000 and become a brain surgeon.

THEN you will really get the babes!

Let dumb it down for you, Rivelino. It seems your reading comprehension is poor. I m sure that's why you ruled out these types of professions.

Invest in yourself. Cultivate your networks. Live in refined style (note: you don't need much money for this). Avoid spending dough on women. The world will be yours.

Feel free to buy your $800 camera. Seems like you have a lot of hopes and dreams depending on it. Good luck to you.
02-17-2011 10:04 PM
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ManAbout Offline
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RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-17-2011 10:04 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  Let dumb it down for you, Rivelino. It seems your reading comprehension is poor. I m sure that's why you ruled out these types of professions.

Invest in yourself. Cultivate your networks. Live in refined style (note: you don't need much money for this). Avoid spending dough on women. The world will be yours.

Feel free to buy your $800 camera. Seems like you have a lot of hopes and dreams depending on it. Good luck to you.

The words about investing in yourself are a given. I disagree with you though about your statement earlier about pretending to be a model, investment banker, lawyer etc. First off, I am just not good at pretending to be someone I am not. And if I am not authentic and feeling myself when I approach women, both you and I know that they will smell it a mile away.

Photography appeals to me because it is creative. I am by no means saying that I want to become a professional photographer. Instead of sitting on my ass at home watching TV or playing PS3, this gets me out, and interacting with people I normally wouldn't.

And I am not even necessarily looking to meet "real models". Maybe just some very attractive women who have a look that attracts me. It's possible that I am setting my sights low and going for "wanna be model" game versus real "model game". You are right, to get to meet Victorias Secret calibre models, photography is not the approach. One might get lucky though, specially if it were tried in a place like Ukraine or Russia or Brazil.

At the end of the day, I have noticed that girls love having their picture taken. And they love creative guys. So, when it comes to hobbies, you could do a lot worse than photography.
02-17-2011 10:25 PM
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Luckystar Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-17-2011 10:25 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  
(02-17-2011 10:04 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  Let dumb it down for you, Rivelino. It seems your reading comprehension is poor. I m sure that's why you ruled out these types of professions.

Invest in yourself. Cultivate your networks. Live in refined style (note: you don't need much money for this). Avoid spending dough on women. The world will be yours.

Feel free to buy your $800 camera. Seems like you have a lot of hopes and dreams depending on it. Good luck to you.

The words about investing in yourself are a given. I disagree with you though about your statement earlier about pretending to be a model, investment banker, lawyer etc. First off, I am just not good at pretending to be someone I am not. And if I am not authentic and feeling myself when I approach women, both you and I know that they will smell it a mile away.

Photography appeals to me because it is creative. I am by no means saying that I want to become a professional photographer. Instead of sitting on my ass at home watching TV or playing PS3, this gets me out, and interacting with people I normally wouldn't.

And I am not even necessarily looking to meet "real models". Maybe just some very attractive women who have a look that attracts me. It's possible that I am setting my sights low and going for "wanna be model" game versus real "model game". You are right, to get to meet Victorias Secret calibre models, photography is not the approach. One might get lucky though, specially if it were tried in a place like Ukraine or Russia or Brazil.

At the end of the day, I have noticed that girls love having their picture taken. And they love creative guys. So, when it comes to hobbies, you could do a lot worse than photography.

Well said, MA. I can respect not pretending to be something you aren't. Though models are not very intuitive for my experience.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2011 10:36 PM by Luckystar.)
02-17-2011 10:30 PM
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Saladin Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
[quote='truedat' pid='43906' dateline='1297995811']
I agree with what Riv says about push/pull and model stuff, although I am not a photographer. Quick experience from yesterday which is haunting me!!!!

I was in the New Delhi India airport getting ready to fly to another city with 1-2 others at the ticket counter and the hottest fucking Indian girl I have ever seen in my life came and just cut me in line. I mean put their Bollywood crap to shame hot (dressed like a westerner with jeans etc.) In India if you let people push you around they will (man or woman) and she looked at me and i was fucking pissed and she knew it. Then she asked me if I was in line (like she didnt fucking know playing her notty little girl shit, ya right) I didnt even look at her but nodded yes fuming. Now she was put in her place and backed up (the push). After about 30 seconds I calmed down and took a look at her as was like WTMF. I seriously thought this girl HAD to be a model. She was stylishly dressed, not with her mommy like the rest of the girls here and was banging. So I asked her 'are you a model'? Instantly her eyes sparkled, and she smiled and said no in a British accent. Since she knew from earlier that I could snap her neck like a twig if she tried any bullshit I let her ahead of me because she had no baggage to check. Anyways she stepped aside after talking to the agent, i did my thing thinking she would be on my flight like a dumbass and I could close it in the next city and walked away being already caught up in my own work/travel shit.

After walking at least 1 minute, I turned around (just to see if she was looking) and she was staring at me. She must of been the whole time. Dont let life/pussy/money pass you by EVER.

Woman want to be models (desired). Woman also need to be put in their place to know that you are strong enough for them. Its nature.

[/quote

Haha awesome, I've seen very few gorgoues Indian women in my life, but when they do come they blow your breath away.
02-18-2011 01:02 AM
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rivelino Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
"so my recommendation is become an amateur photographer and you will start meeting models. that is what i did, and why i did it."

no one was ever talking about making a living as a photographer. that is insane. but luckystar, you are right, the original question was, how do i meet models, not how do i pick up photography.

i recommend that if you have any artistic talent and creative interest, give photography a shot. AS A HOBBY.

it is not unoriginal or slimy or played it.

it is fun.
02-18-2011 02:28 AM
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Phil Asheo Offline
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RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-15-2011 05:35 PM)rivelino Wrote:  "Apparently this also allows the camera to stay in focus all the time, for example when taking HD video."

oh yeah heard about that. i guess.

"I was thinking of getting this lens: http://www.keh.com/camera/Tamron-Adaptal...98260?r=FE"

a manual focus lens? i don't recommend that. too slow for shooting girls smiling and playing with their hair. and taking off their tops.

"I live in Toronto. Yes, please send me the information."

email me at [email protected] or i just sent you a pm. reply with your email.

"The most unoriginal and guarded against method to meeting models is becoming a photographer. Generations of dudes continue to do this. The industry is always on the look out for slimy photographers. And by now, MM is played out."

haha well tell that to this girl:
http://alpharivelino.files.wordpress.com...02/9-5.jpg
cause she is a 9.5 and i just kissed her and fondled her ass after a photo shoot.

brief summary:

"can a 35 year old divorced man do a provocative five hour photo shoot with a 9.75 model — 5’11″, 110lbs, dark hair, green eyes, perfect face — and then end the shoot by playfully pulling her hair, squeezing her ass, and kissing her full on the mouth — after which she gives him a big smile and her business card?"

You pay money just for the chance to get models, you're paying like $200 just for a meeting with no guarantee she is even single, doesn't that add up quickly dude. I'm all down for being a sneaky photographer but paying 75 an hour for 2 hour minimum, just to land a model girl friend seems excessively expensive. Any free or cheaper way to land models dude?
12-04-2011 03:59 PM
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Phil Asheo Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-16-2011 03:02 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  
(02-16-2011 11:56 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  
(02-15-2011 11:39 AM)Luckystar Wrote:  Generations of dudes continue to do this. The industry is always on the look out for slimy photographers.
.

What's funny is that the industry consists of many, if not most, photographers who got into the business because they wanted to get close to models in the first place. So, now after being in it for a while, they have become part of the "industry". And think it's their duty to protect, innocent young models from "slimy photographers". LOL. It is all a matter of protecting their turf, nothing more.

Agreed, most hetero photographers get into the industry to meet models. But other photographers are not the barrier. Its the gay/female fashion majority that are the vigilanties.

The time and energy of being a photographer is a poor investment from a financial standpoint. If the goal is to bang models, there are plenty other occupations that are more desirable to models (other male models, actors, musicians, bankers, lawyers, etc. - just pose as any - zero investment). I speak from experience on this.

If access to models is the issue, this can be addressed seperately while cultivating a better a more lucrative profession in terms of status, money, AND lifestyle. It's not hard to find models, trust me.

The opportunity cost of pursuing photography to bang models makes it possibly the most costliest method of scoring pussy (even when compared to P4P). The only way it makes any sense is if its on a part time deal.
I agree photography is grossly expensive at 75 an hour with 2 hour mins the average man will go broke before he gets pussy.

I disagree with your premise that bankers or lawyers are getting model pussy, trust me, they are only getting pussy from people they meet in their daily life and none of the lawyers/bankers I know are going out on a friday night they are working and not getting pussy.


the whole issue is access to models. How do you get access to them for a low/reasonable cost say no more than $5-10 per model. Ie if you go to a nice fashion show or something for 10 models maybe pay $50, but fashion shows dont get you ACCESS to models because they are working and have no time for you and it can be difficult to get backstage and access them.

Tell me where do you find models to bang, since you have no difficulty. Being a male model offers little guarantee you will get with female models because you may just not work with them unless you do it full time, also its timely and requires one to be in top shape all the time.
12-04-2011 04:11 PM
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Phil Asheo Offline
Banned

Posts: 59
Joined: Dec 2011
Post: #49
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-16-2011 10:21 PM)rivelino Wrote:  "The opportunity cost of pursuing photography to bang models makes it possibly the most costliest method of scoring pussy"

disagree completely. you could spend $2k to become a photographer, and then be a photographer for life. start at 30, end at 50 -- from a heart attack while having sex with two blonde 9.5s and and brunette 10 -- and it cost you $100 a year.

At 75 an hour you' will die at 35 from poverty. How do you get free models to pose for you? Without getting them for free or dirt cheap, it is just a rich man fantasy. i'd really like to know, they all seem to want money, how do you get free models to photo
12-04-2011 04:17 PM
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ccurtis189 Offline
Chubby Chaser
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Posts: 260
Joined: Nov 2011
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Post: #50
RE: Where do you meet model chicks?
(02-13-2011 12:01 AM)kickboxer Wrote:  I imagine those of you who have been with them meet them at bars or clubs? If so thats too bad seeing as i am a 20 year old without a fake ID. I live outside Dallas Texas so i know there have to be models around here somewhere

You don't wanna. Aside from what everyone else has said, they've got even more entitlement issues than the average female. Unless you've got super good looks and tight game then you're gonna have to be a high-profile wealthy man in order for them to look your way.
12-04-2011 04:22 PM
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