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2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
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birdie num num Offline
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Post: #51
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 04:28 PM)Samseau Wrote:  You may think this is all bullshit, but I don't care. Just wait and see. Democrats are killing America and it's not going to stop.

Democrats AND Republicans are killing America. That's more like it.

“When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.”

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06-26-2014 04:59 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #52
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 04:59 PM)birdie num num Wrote:  that new bridge is emblematic of what's wrong with government shortsightedness and mismanagement of our economy.

I agree.

The new Bay Bridge is a good example of government mismanagement, profiteering, and corruption.

Does that mean that our civilization will collapse?

I say "no". Our civilization will not collapse. The economy will certainly fluctuate and the rich will get rich while the poor get poorer..

But, in 20 years, we will still be a first world country in every way.

Just my opinion.

(06-26-2014 04:28 PM)Samseau Wrote:  I'm talking about roads to smaller towns and other parts of the country you've never heard of.

Earlier, you said -- "most of the roads in America will be completely undriveable"

Now, you adjusted that to say -- "roads to smaller towns and other parts of the country you've never heard of".

I respect you for changing your stance.

That seems more realistic to me.

(06-25-2014 07:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  inner America falling into barbarism.

In the slums, yes, life can be barbaric.

But, In the middle class and above..

America will be a great place to be, in my amateur estimation.

That said, I admit, you will need some game and you will need some money. Isn't that true everywhere in the world?

Some are "bullish" on America..

Others are "bearish" on America..

It's going to be interesting.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2014 05:38 PM by Giovonny.)
06-26-2014 05:20 PM
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Post: #53
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 04:28 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 11:50 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  
(06-25-2014 07:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Most roads in America will be completely undrivable.

"roads in America will be completely undriveable" ???

We have some of the best, if not the best roads in the world.

Why are you saying that they will be undriveable?

My city just got a brand new bridge and a brand new freeway. The roads are in excellent shape.

First of all, it's not the cities that will collapse. It's rural America that is being killed off right now.

Most of the country's roads right now are falling apart, but not along major freeways or cities/towns. I'm talking about roads to smaller towns and other parts of the country you've never heard of. Those places are going away Detroit style.

Quote:
(06-25-2014 07:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Twenty years from now it may not even be safe to leave most city limits.

"it may not even be safe to leave most city limits"

???

What exactly are you predicting?

Anarchy? War? The collapse of civilization?

-----

I have to be honest..

These predictions seem a little Tinfoilhat to me.

But, I'm very curious as to why you think this way..

Roving bands of hungry people looking for their next meal. People setting up barricades on old roads to stop passengers and then rob them. Police being too underfunded to do anything about it. Large swaths of inner America falling into barbarism.

You may think this is all bullshit, but I don't care. Just wait and see. Democrats are killing America and it's not going to stop.

Interesting predictions but I disagree on some aspects. Mainly that non-urban America as a whole will fall to barbarism.

While we will see certain aspects of barbarism (think gangs of the Wild West), rural and small-town America will be populated by struggling communities. The barbarians may attack them and take their livestock, most people will live in villages. They will learn how to sustain themselves and we will see aspects of 17th Century Europe within them.
06-26-2014 06:29 PM
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Hotwheels Offline
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Post: #54
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 05:20 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  In the slums, yes, life can be barbaric.

But, In the middle class and above..

They weren't always slums. They became that way over time.

Check out Detroit as a case study.

From the wealthiest city in the US, if not the world, to a complete wreck in less than 50 years.

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06-26-2014 06:38 PM
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Post: #55
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
If you think the country is always going to collapse then I got bullets, canned food, and water to sell you....

The whole doom and gloom thing has been "predicted" for a couple of years, yet it hasn't arrived.

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06-26-2014 07:09 PM
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RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 06:38 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  They weren't always slums. They became that way over time.

Hasn't America always had slums..?

Even during slavery, there were many poor whites living in squalor and poverty.

20th century ethnic slums are well documented in New York City, Chicago, New Orleans, etc.

The Great Depression created even more slums.

Segregation, immigration, population, etc., added more people to the impoverished classes.

There has always been a lot of poor people living in survival mode.

---

To your point, I think slums are growing in some places and shrinking in other places. It all depends where in America we live.

It does seem pretty clear that the elite level jobs and industries are congregating in certain cities. (NYC, LA, SF, Wash D.C., etc.)

People may be forced to live closer to one of these major economic centers.

I would say that our society is being "restructured" due to economic changes brought upon by technology, population boom, culture change, etc.

That said, I don't think America devolve into a lawless state. Maybe in 100 years but not in 20 years.

(06-26-2014 06:38 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  Check out Detroit as a case study.

Isn't Detroit's decline mostly about the auto industry

Americans started buying Japanese cars.

Isn't that what fucked Detroit?

Some aspects of Detroit apply to the rest of America and some aspect of Detroit do not.

Will all of America become like Detroit?

I doubt it.

My opinion.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2014 07:28 PM by Giovonny.)
06-26-2014 07:24 PM
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Post: #57
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 11:50 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  "roads in America will be completely undriveable" ???

We have some of the best, if not the best roads in the world.

Why are you saying that they will be undriveable?

My city just got a brand new bridge and a brand new freeway. The roads are in excellent shape.

This is the 2nd time I have seen somebody on this board tout the roads in and around SF as if they are a good example of the entire country. Head over to the east coast and check out some of the roads my friend. Head to the south or to Appilachia where the potholes can swallow your car. This might help balance peoples views.

As one of the other posters mentioned, things in many cities have been going well but come take a look in the more rural areas where the other half of the popultion lives. Heroin and meth are a fuckin epademic.
06-26-2014 07:35 PM
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RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 07:09 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  If you think the country is always going to collapse then I got bullets, canned food, and water to sell you....

The whole doom and gloom thing has been "predicted" for a couple of years, yet it hasn't arrived.

Bullets you say? They've been one of the best investments out there over the last 15 years.
06-26-2014 07:39 PM
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Hotwheels Offline
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Post: #59
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
Detroit's decline started way back in the mid 60's, long before our shores were opened to essentially duty free competition.

What I was getting at with the slums comment was; They were not BUILT as slums. Many (most?) areas that are considered slums were once vibrant, middle class to wealthy areas. Detroit is actually a good example of this as while the city itself is largely a shithole, the overall metro is pretty well off.

While there is to much to go into here, Detroit is a microcosm of what happens when an entitled, underfunded electorate goes unchecked for too long.

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06-26-2014 07:40 PM
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RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 07:35 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 11:50 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  "roads in America will be completely undriveable" ???

We have some of the best, if not the best roads in the world.

Why are you saying that they will be undriveable?

My city just got a brand new bridge and a brand new freeway. The roads are in excellent shape.

This is the 2nd time I have seen somebody on this board tout the roads in and around SF as if they are a good example of the entire country. Head over to the east coast and check out some of the roads my friend. Head to the south or to Appilachia where the potholes can swallow your car. This might help balance peoples views.

As one of the other posters mentioned, things in many cities have been going well but come take a look in the more rural areas where the other half of the popultion lives. Heroin and meth are a fuckin epademic.

Much of the really expensive deferred maintenance is not visible when driving down the road either.

It's the bridges that really cost money and you don't see how bad it is on the underside when driving over it at 75MPH.





But yes, as stated above, those that live in warm weather areas do not see the abuse highways take in the northern states due to freeze/thaw cycles, requiring more frequent maintenance and repaving.

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06-26-2014 07:45 PM
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Post: #61
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 05:20 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 04:28 PM)Samseau Wrote:  I'm talking about roads to smaller towns and other parts of the country you've never heard of.

Earlier, you said -- "most of the roads in America will be completely undriveable"

Now, you adjusted that to say -- "roads to smaller towns and other parts of the country you've never heard of".

I respect you for changing your stance.

That seems more realistic to me.

There's no contradiction. Most of America, and most of it's roads, are places you've never heard of.

Those places are going to disappear soon.

Quote:
(06-25-2014 07:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  inner America falling into barbarism.

In the slums, yes, life can be barbaric.

But, In the middle class and above..

America will be a great place to be, in my amateur estimation.

That said, I admit, you will need some game and you will need some money. Isn't that true everywhere in the world?

Some are "bullish" on America..

Others are "bearish" on America..

It's going to be interesting.

What middle class?

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06-26-2014 08:03 PM
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RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 08:03 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 05:20 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 04:28 PM)Samseau Wrote:  I'm talking about roads to smaller towns and other parts of the country you've never heard of.

Earlier, you said -- "most of the roads in America will be completely undriveable"

Now, you adjusted that to say -- "roads to smaller towns and other parts of the country you've never heard of".

I respect you for changing your stance.

That seems more realistic to me.

There's no contradiction. Most of America, and most of it's roads, are places you've never heard of.

Those places are going to disappear soon.

Quote:
(06-25-2014 07:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  inner America falling into barbarism.

In the slums, yes, life can be barbaric.

But, In the middle class and above..

America will be a great place to be, in my amateur estimation.

That said, I admit, you will need some game and you will need some money. Isn't that true everywhere in the world?

Some are "bullish" on America..

Others are "bearish" on America..

It's going to be interesting.

What middle class?

I don't know, alot of those 'places you've never heard of' are built with businesses you've never heard of. Lumber and Paper mills for example are situated in no name towns that only people who work in those industries know. Likewise, I have no idea which are the mining towns or towns that live to support military bases. Sure, there are some smaller towns that are completely fucked but that is not new. Gary Indiana in the 80s, Janesville WI in the 90s/2000s but I don't feel like there is an increase or decrease since NAFTA, that really did the damage to small america when it gave a pass to manufacturers to move south.

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06-26-2014 08:50 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 07:45 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  those that live in warm weather areas do not see the abuse highways take in the northern states

This is true.

I admit that my experience and perspective on American roads is good because of where I live.. The roads I drive are in excellent shape.

(06-26-2014 08:03 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Most of America, and most of it's roads, are places you've never heard of.

Those places are going to disappear soon.

First, you said that, in 20 years, "most of the roads in America will be undriveable"

Then, you adjusted that to say it's only the "roads to smaller towns"

Now, you are saying that "most of America and most of its roads... ...Are going to disappear".

So, basically, you are suggesting that most of America is going to "disappear".

You predict anarchy.

I actually think that is a really fucking cool prediction to make.

Actually, sometimes I think that anarchy would be good for me since I am a fit man with aggressive tendencies.

I don't know?

Anarchy in 20 years?

Seems Tinfoilhat to me.

I could be wrong.

-----

In 20 years, I think America will still be a world super power and we will still be a 1st world country.

(06-25-2014 07:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  What middle class?

I am middle class. My family is middle class. Most of the people in my neighborhood are middle class.

Teachers, soldiers, accountants, construction workers, cops, firemen, nurses, middle managers, city workers, food industry, etc.

It is a common cliche to say "there is no middle class"..

But, examine the numbers..

The rich are about 1-2%

What about the other 99%?

Are they all poor?

Of course not.

Many are somewhere in the middle.

(06-26-2014 09:33 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  I'm actually thinking about moving TOO Detroit.

Early movers are the ones that profit the most, and the city is finally showing signs of life.

Besides, I can buy a 10,000 sq. ft crib for $700k.

Exactly!

Recession means many profitable assets go "on sale".
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2014 09:52 PM by Giovonny.)
06-26-2014 09:28 PM
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RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
I'm actually thinking about moving TOO Detroit.

Early movers are the ones that profit the most, and the city is finally showing signs of life.

Besides, I can buy a 10,000 sq. ft crib for $700k.

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06-26-2014 09:33 PM
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RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
^^^ Looks like some quick editing gives the illusion of time travel (?). Gio's post quotes a post that came after it... Laugh

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06-26-2014 10:32 PM
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Post: #66
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-26-2014 09:28 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 07:45 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  those that live in warm weather areas do not see the abuse highways take in the northern states

This is true.

I admit that my experience and perspective on American roads is good because of where I live.. The roads I drive are in excellent shape.

(06-26-2014 08:03 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Most of America, and most of it's roads, are places you've never heard of.

Those places are going to disappear soon.

First, you said that, in 20 years, "most of the roads in America will be undriveable"

Then, you adjusted that to say it's only the "roads to smaller towns"

Now, you are saying that "most of America and most of its roads... ...Are going to disappear".

So, basically, you are suggesting that most of America is going to "disappear".

You predict anarchy.

I actually think that is a really fucking cool prediction to make.

Actually, sometimes I think that anarchy would be good for me since I am a fit man with aggressive tendencies.

I don't know?

Anarchy in 20 years?

Seems Tinfoilhat to me.

I could be wrong.

You are not understanding me. I did not adjust anything. I did not change anything. What I am saying is consistent across posts.

Most of America's roads go to small towns and connect lots of little places together. Check out a map and see for yourself. There are major highways and such but these will be maintained. On the other hand, as the small towns are depopulated and stripped of all profitability, the roads leading to them will fall into disrepair and no longer be used.

Since these small places currently constitute the majority of America's roads, it follows that most of America's roads will become undrivable.

Note this is not anarchy. This is death and poverty.

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(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 02:38 AM by Samseau.)
06-27-2014 02:38 AM
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RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
If you don't think economic trouble is coming to the USA, then you either...

#1) Don't understand how the Fed works and where our money comes from.

#2) Think we can just borrow money forever, at all time interest rates, and our lenders will gladly keep giving us virtually free money forever.

We are keeping afloat right now by borrowing money at nearly free interest rates from an exclusive club of wealthy elites. We are at their mercy. If they eventually decide that they need to raise interest rates, we will be in serious trouble. We can barely get by as it is right now, raise interest rates and it will cause an economic ripple that will impact everyone. Even if our govt. did wise up and stop throwing our money away, we would still be in trouble due to our already enormous national debt.

But lets be honest, that is not happening. The entire USA is right now being run like Detroit. And this is what happens when you give every single adult equal say in how things are run. Politicians buy votes by spending our tax dollars on crap to keep their donors and their bases happy. It is money we no longer have and at this point it is just being put on a credit card that we can't repay.

We are at a tipping point, if the American people were to wake up and vote in small govt. candidates we might be able to prevent the economic problems heading our way. But that is not happening, 47% of Americans don't pay federal income taxes, 46 million Americans get food stamps, the number of people on some form of welfare has exploded in the last 10 years. These people are not going to vote for someone that will take away their free hand outs. So we are headed down the same path as Greece, or if you will, Detroit.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 02:39 AM by It_is_my_time.)
06-27-2014 02:38 AM
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RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
I view the failure to lift the economy during the last 5 years and the current rebound back into recession as a failure of monetary policy - a proof that it is pointless on its own. Recessions are supposed to be "fought" by fiscal stimulus, something that has been sorely lacking because of political paralysis (whether by republicans, democrats or institutions like the feminist NOW). Just think of it: has any significant piece of infrastructure been built, repaired or upgraded during the last several years?

- highways, bridges or tunnels? nope
- power plants (whether renewable or not)? nope
- airports? nope
- water treatment or desalinization plants? nope
- railways or public transport? nope
- space exploration? nope
- hospitals or schools? nope


Instead, the USA has printed an enormous amount of money. Without reasonable fiscal stimulus measures to funnel it into something useful, it went into this instead:

- war and foreign interventions in god-forsaken countries
- "defense" spending, military technology
- banks (bailouts)
- banks (stock, bond, securities & derivatives markets)
- feminist feel-good (think "Common Core") or witch-hunt ("Campus rape prevention") programs
- lots of other parasitic, pointless programs that contribute nothing to society or the economy


I hardly think that the fact that recklessly printing money and shoveling it to the big banks, military and other assorted parasites at warp speed constitutes an indictment of recession-solving measures in general. It's just a signal that the current measures are retarded and are making the situation worse, not better, something that was obvious from the start.

That said, given the utter paralysis and inability/unwillingness of the USA government to enact a normal fiscal stimulus instead of this QE nightmare, I do agree with the posters here that it would be better to just shut down all such stimulus programs, be they monetary or fiscal. Doing nothing at all and just "letting the market sort it out" would probably bring better results than just this corrupt flailing around, which is all that western governments in general are capable of (a similar thing is happening all over Europe too).

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06-27-2014 03:19 AM
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Post: #69
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
I agree America is on a downward trend, but the solution is in plain sight:

1. End the Eurasian empire, return to the maritime republic: Obama just requested $500 million for rebels in Syria, who are fighting on the same side as those the Iraqi government we are going to give weapons to is fighting. WTF? The Ba'athist government of Syria was a military ally of the USA during the Kuwait war. Why is getting rid of it so important? Rhetorical question; I don't want to derail the thread. It's just one example of questionable American spending overseas.

US military expenditure is more than one-third of total world military expenditure and about as much as China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Germany, France, the UK, Japan, India, and Italy - combined. Not that much of it has a stimulative effect on the USA - for example huge overseas expenditures for fuel, food and local logistic support in places like Afghanistan which go to Gulf sheikhs and Pakistanis - the same people who are financing Islamic extremism. Operations are more of the budget than procurement. But procurement is also a mess - look at the F-22 and F-35. The costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars will be in the trillions. For what?

It would be prudent to maintain a small presence in Europe, Japan and Korea, but there is no reason why the USA has to intervene in places like Syria or the Ukraine as a routine practice. Stop trying to dominate the world, maintain a strong navy and a capable army and air force and of course a nuclear deterrent just big enough to survive and deter.

Use the saved money for American infrastructure.

2. Raise marginal tax rates at the top, or look at other sources. First, look at the Tobin tax on financial transactions. Since I trade, I would have to pay this, but it would get rid of some HFT, which really is a scam on the small investor. No reason why taxes could not be raised some at the top of the marginal income rates. The FICA income limit should be raised, too - that is an extremely regressive tax.

3. Structure economic policy around jobs for Americans and encourage higher wages. Good jobs for average people are hard to find, while an elite of smart techies, finance people, medicos, lawyers and managers clean up. That is why the cities on Samseau's list boom while the rest of the country flounders - they are the cool kids' cities around the top universities or other attractions.

Average Americans need jobs. Export of manufacturing jobs to Bangladesh and Mexico and service jobs to BPOs in Manila and Banglalore has led to the devastation of the middle class. Time for some protectionism, structured around tax policy first, tariff policy as a last resort. Jobs for Americans.
06-27-2014 03:41 AM
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Post: #70
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
There will never be a drastic decline short of a nuke hitting oil-rich production areas and the price tripling overnight.

It will always be a slow and steady change and the following powers will lead us into it;

- Interest rates. These can effectively double within 6 months if you dont have a deal with the bank to lock interests rates for a certain amount of time. How many families can afford to pay double on a mortgage?

Even then this is not a cast iron promise. If the EU can say "fuck you" to a lot of wealthy Russians in Cyprus and take their money, then what makes you think your cash is safe?

- Higher skill requirements. If you want to be a professional you are entering a market which increasingly demands more skills before they even look at you.

There is a large number of young, unemployed men in the UK who are quite literally unemployable and refuse to work in a lot of cases. These are idle hands and they will produce trouble.


- Birth rates. People you want to have babies are decreasing whilst ethnic and unemployable slackers are breeding more and more.

This changes the social and cultural stock of an area quite quickly within 5-10 years. As racist as this seems, a lot of families who follow Islam do not indoctrinate their youngsters with British values, quite the opposite in fact.


The USA has this same problem with the poor in their towns and cities. As of now how many areas are no-go areas in your city? Would you legitimately claim it will get better or worse as time goes on?

Poor people have low life expectancy but they can easily live to 50. Those who are born into a poor environment are more likely to commit crime or struggle to prove themselves in legitimate areas but if these opportunities are harder to come by then this becomes a compounding problem.

Within a space of 35 years you can have 3-4 generations of the same blood line and this is prevalent in poor people, not the middle class.

It is a numbers game when it comes down to it and right now there are an increasing number of people who will not pay into the system but will take from it.

This is what will kill the USA if birth rates are not controlled and the living standards are not improved.
06-27-2014 05:07 AM
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Sp5 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
I follow David Stockman. He was budget director under Reagan.


David Stockman: Q1 GDP shock: massive windfalls for the 1% hardly one for the masses

Quote:The Q1 GDP print at -2.9% was the fourth lowest (out of 120 quarters) since Ronald Reagan declared “morning in America” in early 1984. But the true results were probably far worse—unless you believe that the annual rate of inflation this past winter was an anemic 1.27% per the BEA’s deflator for GDP. Even the medicated CPI-U index clocked in at 1.8% during Q1 and is now running north of 2%. Likewise, food was up at a 2.1% annualized rate during Q1, rents and medical care were each up at a 3% rate, and consumer energy prices were rising at a 5% annualized rate.

So based on actual inflation, the Q1 GDP number was negative 3-5% at best. Moreover, if you use a non-governmental measure of inflation, such as the Billion Prices Project (BPP), the picture is even more foreboding. As the Consumer Metric Institute noted, based on the BPP inflation of 3.91% in Q1, real GDP would have clocked in at a deep, recessionary -5.6%.
06-27-2014 11:57 AM
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roberto Offline
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Post: #72
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-27-2014 05:07 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  There will never be a drastic decline short of a nuke hitting oil-rich production areas and the price tripling overnight.

It will always be a slow and steady change and the following powers will lead us into it;

- Interest rates. These can effectively double within 6 months if you dont have a deal with the bank to lock interests rates for a certain amount of time. How many families can afford to pay double on a mortgage?

Even then this is not a cast iron promise. If the EU can say "fuck you" to a lot of wealthy Russians in Cyprus and take their money, then what makes you think your cash is safe?

- Higher skill requirements. If you want to be a professional you are entering a market which increasingly demands more skills before they even look at you.

There is a large number of young, unemployed men in the UK who are quite literally unemployable and refuse to work in a lot of cases. These are idle hands and they will produce trouble.


- Birth rates. People you want to have babies are decreasing whilst ethnic and unemployable slackers are breeding more and more.

This changes the social and cultural stock of an area quite quickly within 5-10 years. As racist as this seems, a lot of families who follow Islam do not indoctrinate their youngsters with British values, quite the opposite in fact.


The USA has this same problem with the poor in their towns and cities. As of now how many areas are no-go areas in your city? Would you legitimately claim it will get better or worse as time goes on?

Poor people have low life expectancy but they can easily live to 50. Those who are born into a poor environment are more likely to commit crime or struggle to prove themselves in legitimate areas but if these opportunities are harder to come by then this becomes a compounding problem.

Within a space of 35 years you can have 3-4 generations of the same blood line and this is prevalent in poor people, not the middle class.

It is a numbers game when it comes down to it and right now there are an increasing number of people who will not pay into the system but will take from it.

This is what will kill the USA if birth rates are not controlled and the living standards are not improved.

Excellent post. Dead right on the birth rate in particular mate, but of course, it's not PC to mention it.

I'd welcome opinions on who or what is the force behind encouraging scum to breed like rats. Who stands to benefit the most from a policy which is so clearly to the detriment of the middle (and even upper?) class?

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety- Benjamin Franklin, as if you didn't know...
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 01:46 PM by roberto.)
06-27-2014 01:46 PM
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birdie num num Offline
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Post: #73
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-27-2014 03:41 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  I agree America is on a downward trend, but the solution is in plain sight:

1. End the Eurasian empire, return to the maritime republic: Obama just requested $500 million for rebels in Syria, who are fighting on the same side as those the Iraqi government we are going to give weapons to is fighting. WTF? The Ba'athist government of Syria was a military ally of the USA during the Kuwait war. Why is getting rid of it so important? Rhetorical question; I don't want to derail the thread. It's just one example of questionable American spending overseas.

US military expenditure is more than one-third of total world military expenditure and about as much as China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Germany, France, the UK, Japan, India, and Italy - combined. Not that much of it has a stimulative effect on the USA - for example huge overseas expenditures for fuel, food and local logistic support in places like Afghanistan which go to Gulf sheikhs and Pakistanis - the same people who are financing Islamic extremism. Operations are more of the budget than procurement. But procurement is also a mess - look at the F-22 and F-35. The costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars will be in the trillions. For what?

It would be prudent to maintain a small presence in Europe, Japan and Korea, but there is no reason why the USA has to intervene in places like Syria or the Ukraine as a routine practice. Stop trying to dominate the world, maintain a strong navy and a capable army and air force and of course a nuclear deterrent just big enough to survive and deter.

Use the saved money for American infrastructure.

2. Raise marginal tax rates at the top, or look at other sources. First, look at the Tobin tax on financial transactions. Since I trade, I would have to pay this, but it would get rid of some HFT, which really is a scam on the small investor. No reason why taxes could not be raised some at the top of the marginal income rates. The FICA income limit should be raised, too - that is an extremely regressive tax.

3. Structure economic policy around jobs for Americans and encourage higher wages. Good jobs for average people are hard to find, while an elite of smart techies, finance people, medicos, lawyers and managers clean up. That is why the cities on Samseau's list boom while the rest of the country flounders - they are the cool kids' cities around the top universities or other attractions.

Average Americans need jobs. Export of manufacturing jobs to Bangladesh and Mexico and service jobs to BPOs in Manila and Banglalore has led to the devastation of the middle class. Time for some protectionism, structured around tax policy first, tariff policy as a last resort. Jobs for Americans.

Excellent points. Sp5 for President!

Even if a candidate did make it into office on this agenda, he'd be taken out JFK style.




“When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.”

- George Carlin
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 02:12 PM by birdie num num.)
06-27-2014 02:04 PM
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Feisbook Control Offline
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Post: #74
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-27-2014 01:46 PM)roberto Wrote:  Excellent post. Dead right on the birth rate in particular mate, but of course, it's not PC to mention it.

I'd welcome opinions on who or what is the force behind encouraging scum to breed like rats. Who stands to benefit the most from a policy which is so clearly to the detriment of the middle (and even upper?) class?

It's two things. The first explanation is that it's just short-sighted behaviour and irrationality. If people don't see something happening to them right now, then it's not happening anywhere as far as they're concerned. Even if you show them data, history, etc. and point out how it probably will affect them in 10 years, for example, they still won't believe you. This time is different. This time is always different, of course, until it's not. Then everyone calls it a black swan event.

The second explanation is that some people do benefit from social decay, or at least think they can/will. Businessmen benefit from importing labour in two principal ways. The first is that it directly drives down costs. The second is that it indirectly drives down costs because immigrants are generally easier to exploit due to language difficulties and lack of knowledge of local labour laws, etc. I'm not talking about the kind of immigrant who is working the system and making pipe bombs in his garage. I'm talking about the kind of immigrant who is timid and fears being deported. Those guys make great workers because they keep their heads down and their mouths shut. They're more attractive to the boss than the local who might have a bit too much to say for himself.

Politicians and bureaucrats also love both the local underclass and immigrants because it keeps them in jobs. A stable, middle class local family is largely a self-sufficient unit. It has little need of the government to coddle it.

Of course, the media, academia, etc. love all of this because they're all a bunch of goddamn pinkos, Islamist sympathisers and other degenerates who want to bite the hand that feeds them (Western civilisation) anyway. All you can say about those guys is that come the revolution, hopefully they'll be first against the wall.

Now, regarding the above few paragraphs, again, those who have an interest in maintaining or expanding the rot also think that they have things perfectly under control, and that a little rot creates opportunities for them. Maybe they do have control, but maybe they don't. It's a bit like watching a street performer juggling knives. It's great until it's not. Again, people overestimate the degree to which they really have a handle on things.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 09:25 PM by Feisbook Control.)
06-27-2014 09:24 PM
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El Chinito loco Offline
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Post: #75
RE: 2014's GDP Final Revisions: -2.9%, Looks Like Another Recession
(06-27-2014 11:57 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  I follow David Stockman. He was budget director under Reagan.


David Stockman: Q1 GDP shock: massive windfalls for the 1% hardly one for the masses

One of the biggest lies formulated in the past three decades is trickle down theory and the idea that immense wealth from the elite leads to job creation. The opposite is true, the ultra rich sock away their funds into portfolios with high returns (private hedge funds, commodities, etc..) but doesn't lead to additional employment opportunities for the middle class. The deregulation of the financial markets also led to widespread tax evasion, concealing assets, and abuse of derivatives.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 09:38 PM by El Chinito loco.)
06-27-2014 09:38 PM
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