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Lifter's Lounge
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Benoit Offline
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Post: #1226
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-17-2015 05:48 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Have you tried them on rings/is it an option? Obviously if they hurt you you shouldn't do them, but if it's been a while you may want to give them another go, unweighted initially.

What sets and reps are you doing for your pressing work, including your main bench work? What percentage of your max are you working at?

What are you doing for your back-where are your row/chin numbers relative to your bodyweight?

When was the last time you just got heavier?

Currently 90kg at 6'1" and leaning out before putting on any more size.

I haven't tried the dip spacing on the new cages, that might work better for me.

Typical bench session looks like:
Bar x 10
50% x5
60% x4
70% x3
80% x2
85% x1
90% 2x1
80% 3x2

Accessories usually 3x 8-12 reps. Pendlay Row I can do 1.2xBW for 5, regularly do 5x10 chins and pullups (unweighted)

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold
07-17-2015 07:22 AM
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #1227
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-17-2015 07:22 AM)Benoit Wrote:  
(07-17-2015 05:48 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Have you tried them on rings/is it an option? Obviously if they hurt you you shouldn't do them, but if it's been a while you may want to give them another go, unweighted initially.

What sets and reps are you doing for your pressing work, including your main bench work? What percentage of your max are you working at?

What are you doing for your back-where are your row/chin numbers relative to your bodyweight?

When was the last time you just got heavier?

Currently 90kg at 6'1" and leaning out before putting on any more size.

I haven't tried the dip spacing on the new cages, that might work better for me.

Typical bench session looks like:
Bar x 10
50% x5
60% x4
70% x3
80% x2
85% x1
90% 2x1
80% 3x2

Accessories usually 3x 8-12 reps. Pendlay Row I can do 1.2xBW for 5, regularly do 5x10 chins and pullups (unweighted)

Personally I'd say your overall volume for bench looks too low. [email protected]%? I don't think you are providing yourself with sufficient stimulus to make the gains you want. Never lose sight of the fact that assistance is just assistance - you're pumping blood through a muscle, not necessarily trying to force strength adaptions - that's what your main work is for, and there should be a clear separation in mindset between your main work and your assistance.

There's any number of things you could try. Paul Carter, for example, likes the over warmup, so you could do:

50% x5
60% x5
70% x4
80% x3
85% x2
95% x1

80-85% x 4(sets) x 6(reps)

And then do your assistance.
07-17-2015 08:12 AM
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Benoit Offline
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Post: #1228
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-17-2015 08:12 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Personally I'd say your overall volume for bench looks too low. [email protected]%? I don't think you are providing yourself with sufficient stimulus to make the gains you want. Never lose sight of the fact that assistance is just assistance - you're pumping blood through a muscle, not necessarily trying to force strength adaptions - that's what your main work is for, and there should be a clear separation in mindset between your main work and your assistance.

Thanks. I'll push the volume up more and see what happens. On Sheiko I was doing 4-5 bench sessions with similar amounts per week, but never above 85% for the top set.

My 1RM test felt very heavy, I think from not having the form right. I would reach failure without feeling like I'd been working hard at all.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold
07-17-2015 08:44 AM
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #1229
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-17-2015 08:44 AM)Benoit Wrote:  
(07-17-2015 08:12 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Personally I'd say your overall volume for bench looks too low. [email protected]%? I don't think you are providing yourself with sufficient stimulus to make the gains you want. Never lose sight of the fact that assistance is just assistance - you're pumping blood through a muscle, not necessarily trying to force strength adaptions - that's what your main work is for, and there should be a clear separation in mindset between your main work and your assistance.

Thanks. I'll push the volume up more and see what happens. On Sheiko I was doing 4-5 bench sessions with similar amounts per week, but never above 85% for the top set.

My 1RM test felt very heavy, I think from not having the form right. I would reach failure without feeling like I'd been working hard at all.

When did you last deload? I hope after Sheiko you've taken a week or so off. If not, there might be a clue in that.

You also have to keep in mind that if you are losing weight, and maintaining strength, then you are progressing. Were you heavier when you started Sheiko? If you lost half a stone, and kept all your lifts the same or made gains in a couple, then that is legitimate progress once you're not a beginner anymore. Your bench could have gone up, essentially by not going down, particularly as bench can be affected quite significantly by weightloss.
07-17-2015 08:58 AM
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Benoit Offline
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Post: #1230
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-17-2015 08:58 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  When did you last deload? I hope after Sheiko you've taken a week or so off. If not, there might be a clue in that.

You also have to keep in mind that if you are losing weight, and maintaining strength, then you are progressing. Were you heavier when you started Sheiko? If you lost half a stone, and kept all your lifts the same or made gains in a couple, then that is legitimate progress once you're not a beginner anymore. Your bench could have gone up, essentially by not going down, particularly as bench can be affected quite significantly by weightloss.

I've had a few weeks off since Sheiko.

My weight hasn't changed by more than a couple of kilos, it could be that - dead and squat 1RMs went up by 5kg and 7kg but bench hasn't increased over those 3 months.

Probably best to focus on good form and programming and see what results that gives me.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold
07-17-2015 09:31 AM
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Bushido Offline
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Post: #1231
RE: Lifter's Lounge



PM me for accommodation options in Bangkok.
07-17-2015 10:25 AM
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Hades Offline
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Post: #1232
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Complexes and conditioning type routines are a great way to mix up your training or get in some volume at home. For instance I have this dumbbell with about forty-five pounds loaded onto it (in total).

A complex for it could look like this -

10x overhead presses (each arm)
10x unilateral overhead squats (each arm, these are a bitch, substitute with moar goblet squats if you don't want to do these)
10x upright rows (each arm)
20x goblet squats (calf raise at the end of each rep)
10x front raises
20x French presses

Then you repeat this and cut the reps in half if it gets too hard (back to back french press and overhead press sucks).

I used to think the higher rep shit was dumb but I'm starting to see results doing this kind of routine and I like what I'm seeing.

One of these days I'll get a sandbag and load it up with maybe 60-100# and do a whole shitload of front squats and push presses until I pass out.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2015 10:48 AM by Hades.)
07-17-2015 10:39 AM
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Foolsgo1d Offline
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Post: #1233
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I can't wait for Autumn. All the try hards go back to their hibernating periods and leave the gym for a good while and begin their ridiculous cycle once more come April/May.

Got to get that body fit within 2 months!
07-17-2015 08:44 PM
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FretDancer Offline
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Post: #1234
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-16-2015 12:42 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  http://symmetricstrength.com/

I score Exceptional and Elite for my squats and deadlifts, but presses let me down so overall score is Advanced (90.7).

Apparently muscle-wise, I have 'Intermediate' (aka 'Mediocre') chest and 'Exceptional' ass (among other exceptional bits and pieces). Banana

Wow this website is awesome.
07-17-2015 11:34 PM
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Only One Man Offline
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Post: #1235
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-17-2015 08:44 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  I can't wait for Autumn. All the try hards go back to their hibernating periods and leave the gym for a good while and begin their ridiculous cycle once more come April/May.

Got to get that body fit within 2 months!

Curious what you mean by "try hards"?
07-18-2015 12:46 PM
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Post: #1236
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Does anyone else like the military/overhead press far more than the bench press?

Might only be residual effects from a baseball injury, but I find that I like overhead pressing far, far more than bench pressing.

"For you yourselves are aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night" (1 Thess. 5:2)
07-19-2015 10:57 PM
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RexImperator Offline
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Post: #1237
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Yes, and I feel like it's a healthier exercise. I'm not planning on competing in powerlifting, so emphasizing my bench isn't super important to me.

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07-19-2015 11:17 PM
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VincentVinturi Offline
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Post: #1238
RE: Lifter's Lounge
For sure, I love the overhead press.

It really forces you to stay tight, squeeze the glutes, death grip the bar and breathe correctly.

You immediately feel the kinetic chain weakening if your form is off.

I feel like you can get away with poor technique to a greater degree with the bench press than with the OH press.

(07-19-2015 10:57 PM)Truth Teller Wrote:  Does anyone else like the military/overhead press far more than the bench press?

Might only be residual effects from a baseball injury, but I find that I like overhead pressing far, far more than bench pressing.

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07-20-2015 02:10 AM
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Foolsgo1d Offline
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Post: #1239
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-18-2015 12:46 PM)Only One Man Wrote:  
(07-17-2015 08:44 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  I can't wait for Autumn. All the try hards go back to their hibernating periods and leave the gym for a good while and begin their ridiculous cycle once more come April/May.

Got to get that body fit within 2 months!

Curious what you mean by "try hards"?

The ones who Personal Trainers love.

- Pay overpriced "training" schemes
- Come in to get trim/fit/six pack for their holiday that is 4-6 weeks off
- Clog the gym up (yes I am that guy who notices)
- Fuck off when summer is over

I'm not on about those who go hard in the gym and get results.
07-20-2015 11:02 AM
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Ingocnito Offline
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Post: #1240
RE: Lifter's Lounge
So I'm sure many of us here use some form of protein powder, or have throughout their journey.

I've been using the Cellucor weigh for my post workout shake, and a little Caesen in the evenings. I decided when I was at Krogers to read the label on the cheapo grocery store stuff.

While it had abundant aminos, the carbs were truly off the charts. 68% of the daily recommended carb intake based on a 2000 calorie diet in ONE SERVING? All from sugars? Holy shit!
07-21-2015 12:25 AM
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freshlife Offline
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Post: #1241
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Just got back in the gym after being away for a month and looking to build strength and pack on size.
I used to do a 3 day split but I am experimenting with full body workouts. I have created this basic routine.

Monday - Dips, Chin Ups, Deadlift.
Wednesday - Pull Ups, Bench Press, Squat.
Friday - Rows, Overhead Press, Lunges.
4 sets, with 8-10 reps for each.

How do you guys rate this plan? Anything to add or remove?
07-21-2015 04:29 AM
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Saweeep Offline
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Post: #1242
RE: Lifter's Lounge
There's not a lot of volume there. Do you have massive time constraints?

I do more volume in your entire week combined, 5/6 days per week.
07-21-2015 04:57 AM
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #1243
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-21-2015 04:29 AM)freshlife Wrote:  Just got back in the gym after being away for a month and looking to build strength and pack on size.
I used to do a 3 day split but I am experimenting with full body workouts. I have created this basic routine.

Monday - Dips, Chin Ups, Deadlift.
Wednesday - Pull Ups, Bench Press, Squat.
Friday - Rows, Overhead Press, Lunges.
4 sets, with 8-10 reps for each.

How do you guys rate this plan? Anything to add or remove?

I've never done Push/Pull/Legs as a routine before, so others may be better qualified to comment. What I would say is that I've recently come off a successful period of adding mass, and I was doing more than you are describing just for my assistance work.

Personally, when designing my splits, I like to pick one lift each day that I'm trying to get stronger on. That is the lift that is always done first. So your 3 might be:

Day 1 - Weighted dips
Day 2 - Squats
Day 3 - OHP

These (or whatever you choose) are the lifts you are trying to get stronger in, and they give you feed back on the rest of your training. If these lifts are going up, then you are making progress and getting stronger, even if your assistance work stays the same.

Then for assistance, I like to pick 4/5 compound exercises that work antagonist muscle groups, and work through them all in a big set, before adding weight to everything before running through the next big set.

So for the 3 lifts above a full day's training might look like:

Day 1

Main lift:
Weighted dips - workup to a heavy set of 3-6 reps (looking to hit 15-25 reps total in the 65-95% of your training max range)

Assistance work (trying to add weight to everything each set) 3-8 sets depending on reps:
Chinups
Weighted dips (higher volume than the main set, in the 70-80% range)
BB rows
Incline bench
Ab roller

Day 2

Main lift:
Squats - workup to a heavy set of 3-6 reps (looking to hit 15-25 reps total in the 65-95% of your training max range)

Assistance work (trying to add weight to everything each set) 3-8 sets depending on reps:

Deadlift/stiff leg deads (keeping reps low - 3-5 reps per set at 70-90% of a modest TM)
Front squat/squat (higher volume than the main set, in the 70-80% range)
Lunges
Weighted situps


Day 3

Main lift:

OHP - workup to a set of 5-10 reps (looking to hit 20-30 reps total in the 65-85% of your training max range)

Accessory work (trying to add weight to everything each set) 3-8 sets depending on reps:

Chins
Overhead variation
BB/DB row
Dips/incline bench
Leg raises
07-21-2015 05:04 AM
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britchard Offline
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Post: #1244
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-21-2015 12:25 AM)Ingocnito Wrote:  So I'm sure many of us here use some form of protein powder, or have throughout their journey.

I've been using the Cellucor weigh for my post workout shake, and a little Caesen in the evenings. I decided when I was at Krogers to read the label on the cheapo grocery store stuff.

While it had abundant aminos, the carbs were truly off the charts. 68% of the daily recommended carb intake based on a 2000 calorie diet in ONE SERVING? All from sugars? Holy shit!

Never used it. Don't plan on doing so. I'm staying off it partly because there currently isn't enough evidence to show any long-term effects of using it, and partly because I want to show people that you can get a great body without using it. It's like not studying for an exam and still getting higher than the guy who studied all night.
07-21-2015 05:05 AM
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freshlife Offline
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Post: #1245
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Yeah was thinking I could add more volume. I am looking to hit the gym 3 times a week. I know that Deadlifts, Squats, Bench Press and Overhead Press are essential lifts.

Time is not a big issue so I can afford to add more exercises to each day, I am just unsure how to structure the weekly plan.
07-21-2015 05:11 AM
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #1246
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-21-2015 05:11 AM)freshlife Wrote:  I know that Deadlifts, Squats, Bench Press and Overhead Press are essential lifts.

These are only essential lifts if they help you meet your goals. For me personally, I view weighted dips as more essential than bench press. Someone training for powerlifting would have a very different idea, as would someone whose shoulders were aggravated by dips. Your goals are your own, and what is essential to you may not be what a faceless stranger tells you it should be.
07-21-2015 05:27 AM
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Post: #1247
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-21-2015 05:11 AM)freshlife Wrote:  Yeah was thinking I could add more volume. I am looking to hit the gym 3 times a week. I know that Deadlifts, Squats, Bench Press and Overhead Press are essential lifts.

Time is not a big issue so I can afford to add more exercises to each day, I am just unsure how to structure the weekly plan.

You could start with what you have up there and slowly add more volume.

There are no essential lifts, only essential movements. You should be doing some form of squat, push and pull. For a powerlifter, it's low bar BB squat, BB bench and deadlift. A KB guy would have their variations of KB squats, KB clean & press and swing / snatch. A weightlifter would have high bar squat, front squat, incline press / dips, and their bazillion pulls. You get the idea.

I like the Overhead Press but it's rather useless for powerlifting so I always drop it when I enter my competition block, to focus on benching.

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07-21-2015 07:28 AM
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VincentVinturi Offline
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Post: #1248
RE: Lifter's Lounge
What's everybody's take on working out 'intuitively'?

Let's say you've been lifting for a while, have decent form, an understanding of important core principles and a good foundation of strength.

Is it ever advisable to make up your routine on the fly versus adhering to a pre-planned routine like Stronglifts, Sheiko, etc?

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07-21-2015 09:52 AM
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Hades Offline
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Post: #1249
RE: Lifter's Lounge
VV, yes. Some of the best lifters don't bother with a program.

All you really need anyway is weights and a rep range.

A guy can even do a one lift per day program where you smash permutations of one lift each day.
07-21-2015 10:01 AM
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #1250
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(07-21-2015 09:52 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  What's everybody's take on working out 'intuitively'?

Let's say you've been lifting for a while, have decent form, an understanding of important core principles and a good foundation of strength.

Is it ever advisable to make up your routine on the fly versus adhering to a pre-planned routine like Stronglifts, Sheiko, etc?

Personally I think it is advisable to follow a fixed program, otherwise it is very hard to measure progression. However, a fixed program might mean Sheiko, or it might mean:

Day 1: Upper body - horizontal focus, hypertrophy focus, 5 sets of 8-12 adding weight each set. 3-5 exercises

Day 2: Lower body - Strength focus, 6-8 sets of 3-6 adding weight each set 3-5 exercises

Day 3: Upper body - Vertical focus, hypertrophy focus, 5 sets of 8-12 adding weight each set. 3-5 exercises

Day 4 Lower body - Hypertrophy focus, 3-6 sets of 6-20 reps, adding weight each set 3-5 exercises

2 x 30 minute LISS conditioning
1 x HIIT conditioning

Done over a 7 or 8 day split. That way as long as you get what you planned done within the window you allowed, it doesn't matter when you do a workout, or if you tack conditioning on the end, or do it in the morning, or split a workout up into 2 sessions.

Going completely by the seat of your pants is likely to have you skipping the good stuff you don't want to do so much, and going 'oh well, one more bench day this week, I'll do 3 leg days next week honest'
07-21-2015 10:04 AM
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