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Lifter's Lounge
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #1976
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-06-2016 06:03 PM)Stun Wrote:  Question for the heavy deadlifters:

If I'm doing 315x5 with 70% effort and

365x5 at 100% effort (I can't always finish 5 reps without rest, sometimes 3x, rest, 2x)

What approach should I take to get up to 455 x 1?

That's probably a 70lb increase on your current 1rm. How long did it take you to get to where you are now? What training methodologies for improving your deadlift have you tried? How long have you plateau'd here?

70lbs is a big increase. The question would probably be more useful to you if it were 'how do I get to 365x5 consistently, then how do I add 10lbs to my 5 rep max?' The answer is always that these things must be done incrementally.

You are basically asking - how do I do something my body has no idea how to achieve, that my body doesn't 'understand'. The answer is to teach it all the steps in between. There are many ways to do this, but they'll depend on what you've tried and what other goals you are running concurrently.

Matt pulls from X inches down to the floor are a great way to build the deadlift. So you'd start a 12 week cycle pulling from above the knees with 400lbs for max reps, and each week knock out a matt trying to get as close to the previous week's reps as possible, until you reached the floor.
03-06-2016 06:41 PM
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Stun Offline
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Post: #1977
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-05-2016 07:40 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 01:21 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Did x5 sprints with push sled yesterday and was a little woozy afterward. Being athletic takes more of a tole on the body than lifting weight.

A few general thoughts on this last point:

Being well conditioned does more for the body than anything else.

I think very often people plateau because they are not sufficiently fit to work as hard as they need to to reach the next level.

The people who experience strength loss on a cut (a typical cut not a Mr. Olympia cut) tend to do so because they are used to getting all of their energy from carbs. A solid base of conditioning allows for continued strength progression whilst in a calorie deficit, in my experience.

People often talk about the improvements to confidence that comes from adding muscle. I believe that there is a similar improvement to confidence that comes from being usefully fit once you already have some muscle. Knowing you have the engine to fight a few rounds, run a few miles fast, sprint some hills, or do whatever gives tremendous confidence.

Being very fit also seems to make men much more alert and aggressive, as well as better able to perform under extreme duress (there is a reason the military emphasises conditioning so heavily, particularly for SF types/elite infantry).

My opinion is that once a man has built some muscle, the best thing he can do is ensure that he is constantly well conditioned.

I concur! It's a difficult balance to find though, that between doing enough conditioning to keep the energy high and doing too much hence burning calories and even muscle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdhFJ5uArUc
03-06-2016 06:41 PM
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Stun Offline
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Post: #1978
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-06-2016 06:41 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  
(03-06-2016 06:03 PM)Stun Wrote:  Question for the heavy deadlifters:

If I'm doing 315x5 with 70% effort and

365x5 at 100% effort (I can't always finish 5 reps without rest, sometimes 3x, rest, 2x)

What approach should I take to get up to 455 x 1?

That's probably a 70lb increase on your current 1rm. How long did it take you to get to where you are now? What training methodologies for improving your deadlift have you tried? How long have you plateau'd here?

70lbs is a big increase. The question would probably be more useful to you if it were 'how do I get to 365x5 consistently, then how do I add 10lbs to my 5 rep max?' The answer is always that these things must be done incrementally.

You are basically asking - how do I do something my body has no idea how to achieve, that my body doesn't 'understand'. The answer is to teach it all the steps in between. There are many ways to do this, but they'll depend on what you've tried and what other goals you are running concurrently.

Matt pulls from X inches down to the floor are a great way to build the deadlift. So you'd start a 12 week cycle pulling from above the knees with 400lbs for max reps, and each week knock out a matt trying to get as close to the previous week's reps as possible, until you reached the floor.

How long did it take you to get to where you are now?

I began deadlifting in late 2014 and found 275x5 to be a comfortable weight to lift at about 80% effort. I did not make an effort to increase here until June 2015 when I moved to 315x5. The first time I tried it was tough to complete 315x5 without rest but within 2 weeks I could do it provided diet, nutrition, sleep and regular exercise were on point. And limited alcohol.

I moved to 365x5 this Feb where again I struggled at first, but Im now able to lift it rarely without rest. But not consistently. Some days I rest @2x.

What training methodologies for improving your deadlift have you tried?

8 Hours sleep are far and away the most rigid requirement as I'm nearly 40. Nutrition, regular cardio such as walking, biking, jogging seem to help. I haven't looked at alternate techniques other than the stronglifts 5x5 video. I've tried additional calories, but too many wears my body out.

How long have you plateau'd here?

3 weeks, but my body is telling me I'm far away from adding more weight, even 10 more lbs. Your suggestion to try to be consistent at 365x5 is where I'll begin to seek improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdhFJ5uArUc
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2016 06:58 PM by Stun.)
03-06-2016 06:56 PM
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Hades Offline
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Post: #1979
RE: Lifter's Lounge
While I do like reading smart breakdowns of training and methodologies, nerds ruined lifting, nutrition science, and probably the game community too.

Stuff gets more and more nuanced, more intellectualized, and has greater appeal to the ass-sitting nerd lobby than it does to actual lifters. I argue that 95% of all lifting information on the internet and in books was written by people who didn't even squat 500, deadlift 400, and bench 300. Why bother vouchsafing the word of lifters (Bret Contreras, for instance) who would get stomped in a highschool powerlifting meet?

"Diminishing returns from information overload" is a real phenomena.

I would even posit that it has a regressive effect when put to action. It just gives neuroses to people who would otherwise have a lot of potential adhering wholly to a "flawed" training methodology. Lifting got "smarter", lifters have overall gotten weaker in the same timeframe.
03-07-2016 09:38 PM
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Post: #1980
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Would people be interested in an Olympic lifting thread?

I know several members who could make some very solid contributions.

"For you yourselves are aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night" (1 Thess. 5:2)
03-08-2016 12:40 AM
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MiscBrah Offline
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Post: #1981
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-07-2016 09:38 PM)Hades Wrote:  While I do like reading smart breakdowns of training and methodologies, nerds ruined lifting, nutrition science, and probably the game community too.

I can certainly appreciate where you're coming from. I disagree though. I have a ton to learn but I find I actually train harder when I have an idea of what's going on in the body. I think its cool.
03-08-2016 12:43 AM
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cubanlinx Offline
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Post: #1982
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I like reading about what goes on when you do.a specific exercise/diet, and how to train for your specific fibre makeup and stuff.
The only thing that doesn't.fly is when some guy like Contreras who looks like me after my 1st year of lifting, adopts this condescending tone and tells me to avoid isolation exercises unless they're for the glutes. I appreciate the info and all, but c'mon.
03-08-2016 01:16 AM
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Pornopung Offline
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Post: #1983
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-06-2016 06:56 PM)Stun Wrote:  How long did it take you to get to where you are now?

I began deadlifting in late 2014 and found 275x5 to be a comfortable weight to lift at about 80% effort. I did not make an effort to increase here until June 2015 when I moved to 315x5. The first time I tried it was tough to complete 315x5 without rest but within 2 weeks I could do it provided diet, nutrition, sleep and regular exercise were on point. And limited alcohol.

I moved to 365x5 this Feb where again I struggled at first, but Im now able to lift it rarely without rest. But not consistently. Some days I rest @2x.

What training methodologies for improving your deadlift have you tried?

8 Hours sleep are far and away the most rigid requirement as I'm nearly 40. Nutrition, regular cardio such as walking, biking, jogging seem to help. I haven't looked at alternate techniques other than the stronglifts 5x5 video. I've tried additional calories, but too many wears my body out.

How long have you plateau'd here?

3 weeks, but my body is telling me I'm far away from adding more weight, even 10 more lbs. Your suggestion to try to be consistent at 365x5 is where I'll begin to seek improvement.
You lift the same weight every workout for 6+ months, and then suddenly increase with 40 lbs?

It's better to increase the weight (or volume) with small steps every workout or every few workouts, to let your body adapt gradually. You will be at 455 before you know it.

Back when I was 17 and started deadlifting for the first time, I reached your goal weight in about 9 months. I started with a 5x5 program, increasing 5-10 lbs every workout. I also ran a powerlifting peaking program with a lot of volume in low reps for a few weeks. I deadlifted only once a week and squatted once or twice a week.

If I were you I would start with a linear progression program such as a 5x5 program, reduce the weight so it's quite easy the first couple of weeks. Then add 5 or 10 lbs every week. Hopefully you will blast through your current weight and continue getting stronger a few more weeks. When progress slows down and your strength doesn't increase fast enough to add weight every week, switch to a program with slower progression such as 5/3/1.

If you want to really specialize on deadlift you can train it several times a week, but if you also squat heavy one day a week is enough. You can add either lighter deadlifts, or a variation such as romanian deadlift on your squat day(s).
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2016 09:13 AM by Pornopung.)
03-08-2016 09:04 AM
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Hades Offline
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Post: #1984
RE: Lifter's Lounge
^I think in terms of cost benefit, and ability to stay with the program, Stun did a good move in using a steady state program rather than progressive overload.

Furthermore, probably 80% of SS guys who use progressive overload probably quit lifting inside of the first six months. I'm not even saying "maintain with the same weights" - it's probably quit altogether.
03-08-2016 01:54 PM
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AlphaGrowthHormone Offline
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Post: #1985
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I do low-carb. I've read that someone aiming for gains should shoot for about 1.2-1.8g of protein per pound a day based on your ideal weight. I have a very hard time consuming that amount of protein. As in eating that much. And this is after having 6-9 scoops of protein powder every day. I'd appreciate it if someone with a low-carb approach would post their typical daily menu and the gains they've experienced.
03-09-2016 12:03 AM
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Balkan Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-09-2016 12:03 AM)AlphaGrowthHormone Wrote:  I do low-carb. I've read that someone aiming for gains should shoot for about 1.2-1.8g of protein per pound a day based on your ideal weight. I have a very hard time consuming that amount of protein. As in eating that much. And this is after having 6-9 scoops of protein powder every day. I'd appreciate it if someone with a low-carb approach would post their typical daily menu and the gains they've experienced.

I eat low-carb, usually aim for <50g/daily to stay ketogenic. It's been written here before but protein needs, especially those originating within the supplement industry, are over exaggerated. This makes sense as that industry makes more $$ by creating more of a perceived demand for their products. Here's an NCBI paper that says you only need 1.3-1.8g protein/kg bodyweight (.6-.9g/lb bw) to maximize protein synthesis. These values are still above RDA but are significantly lower than what you're citing. In my opinion, high protein intake is much more important while cutting, not bulking, in order to preserve muscle tissue while in a caloric deficit.

Why are you planning on getting all your protein needs from powders? Are you a vegetarian/vegan? I'd have nonstop gas if I had that much dairy-based powder/day. Protein powder is great for convenience but I can't see the utility in having more than 1-2 shakes/day. Furthermore, eating high protein food sources (eggs, turkey, chicken, tuna, beef) have always been more conducive for my bulks than high protein via supplements.

When I eat low carb, an average day of meals looks like the following:
-3-4 tablespoons of Udo's oil + large coffee with cream
-4 whole eggs w/ grated cheese & hot sauce + avocado with lemon & salt + banana/grapefruit
-1lb 85/15 or 93/7 ground turkey w/ grated cheese & hot sauce (usually split into 2 8oz portions one of which is post-workout)
-4-6oz of raw cheese or large handful of pecans
-large spinach/celery/onion/tomato/cucumber/chickpea salad with apple cider vineagar and olive oil

I don't count calories or macros anymore but I'm guessing the above is ~2300-2500 cal. It sounds like you're trying to bulk so I'd omit the salad and add something more calorically dense. I'm currently 5'11" 183lbs at 12%bf. If you have any more specific questions feel free to post them or PM me.
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2016 08:09 PM by Balkan.)
03-09-2016 08:08 PM
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Hades Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
Balkan how long have you low carbed for? Six months? A year? How has fat loss gone? Lifting?

I haven't ever gone more than two months. I'd rather be a little fat than poor haha.
03-09-2016 09:42 PM
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RexImperator Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
Quote:I argue that 95% of all lifting information on the internet and in books was written by people who didn't even squat 500, deadlift 400, and bench 300.

Wouldn't it be more typical to deadlift 500 and squat 400? The exception would be if you had shorter limbs. Then the leverages make squatting easier and deadlifting harder.

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03-09-2016 10:04 PM
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Balkan Offline
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Post: #1989
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-09-2016 09:42 PM)Hades Wrote:  Balkan how long have you low carbed for? Six months? A year? How has fat loss gone? Lifting?

I haven't ever gone more than two months. I'd rather be a little fat than poor haha.

Not that long, probably 2 months straight as of now. I've done several month long episodes before but I never have sustained it for more than ~6 months. Frankly, it's quite an anti-social/anti-travel and I'd even say anti-player diet. It might be slightly more expensive, but I think you can do it reasonable cheap. I wouldn't recommend it for a long-term approach as it's just not sustainable if you enjoy drinking/sampling local food (almost always carb heavy). However, those urges do disappear the longer you stay ketogenic. I used to eat low-carb and have 1 refeed day a week, which helped handle the urges and was a decent compromise but it seemed to be a band-aid solution and I just cut those refeeds out entirely. Also, important note is to get ketone strips from a local rite-aid to see if you're actually in ketosis. A lot of people think they are when they're not. Typically, you need to go low-low-carb <25g/day for a week to enter ketosis and then you can up the level to <40-50g/day to stay in it. This will vary per person though.

I'm a natural hardgainer so I rarely use this diet when bulking as my hunger levels significantly decrease and I struggle to consume a caloric surplus. Low-carb ketogenic diets mesh well with Intermittent Fasting and short-term fasts (<24 hour). More than anything else, this diet facilitates productive periods of your life. I'm studying for a big grad school exam and the cerebral aspect/lack of hunger pains that come from fasting and eating high-fat have noticeable helped my concentration.

I was a semi-pro athlete for most of my youth. I'd reckon I never got above 15% bodyfat. I've always been lean and a keto diet just allowed me to drop my baseline a few % points lower. Have lifted weights seriously for 6 years now. Haven't noticed a performance enhancement on keto diet although supposedly the keto adaptation period can take up to a year. Quite interesting but a lot of supermarathoners currently breaking records are keto-adapted and they supplement with exogenous ketones instead of the conventional gel/goo packs. Here's a video on it
03-09-2016 10:19 PM
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Only One Man Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
Recently started a routine that looks something like this. Curious to hear input.

Day 1
-Squats
-Lunges or step ups
-Overhead press
-Front and side shoulder raises
-Kettlebell swings
-Abs

Day 2
-Deadlift
-Barbell rows
-Pullups
-Close grip chins/dumbell or kettlebell one arm rows
-Abs

Day 3
-Power cleans
-Bench (barbell or dumbell, flat or incline)
-Dips

Rest

Day 4 (Lighter, higher volume)
-Front squats
-RDLs
-Overhead press
-Machine chest press
-Rows
-Pullups
-Dips
-Abs

I tend to cycle from sets of 10 to 8 to 6 and hopefully when i get back to 10 in a month or so I'm using the weight i was previously using for 8 or 6.

Any thoughts?
03-10-2016 12:08 AM
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Brodiaga Offline
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Post: #1991
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I don't think my question warrants its own thread, so I'll ask it here.

Does it make any difference if you do all sets of the same exercise in a row vs. switching between different exercises after each set?

For example,

Pull-up X 3 sets X 8 reps. Then Dip X 3 X 8 vs.
Pull-up, Dip, Pull-up, Dip, Pull-up, Dip. 8 reps each.

I usually go for the second option, because (1) it gives the muscles a bit of time to recover between sets and (2) for some exercises, I can use the same machine/equipment for the alternate sets.

I lift regularly, but I'm not trying to achieve perfection, just keeping in shape if that matters.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2016 03:26 PM by Brodiaga.)
03-12-2016 03:20 PM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-07-2016 09:38 PM)Hades Wrote:  While I do like reading smart breakdowns of training and methodologies, nerds ruined lifting, nutrition science, and probably the game community too.

Stuff gets more and more nuanced, more intellectualized, and has greater appeal to the ass-sitting nerd lobby than it does to actual lifters. I argue that 95% of all lifting information on the internet and in books was written by people who didn't even squat 500, deadlift 400, and bench 300. Why bother vouchsafing the word of lifters (Bret Contreras, for instance) who would get stomped in a highschool powerlifting meet?

"Diminishing returns from information overload" is a real phenomena.

I would even posit that it has a regressive effect when put to action. It just gives neuroses to people who would otherwise have a lot of potential adhering wholly to a "flawed" training methodology. Lifting got "smarter", lifters have overall gotten weaker in the same timeframe.

And then you have the doucheturds who proclaim to be some form of dalai lama about life because they lift something up and put it down again few seconds later. Imbeciles.

"If you do half measures then your life is a half measure"

What utter dickheads, both men and women.


On another subject, does anyone else have a gym with a lot of women who train like guys for the most part and have higher T levels than guys in their late teens to early twenties? I'm not talking about roid users, but the yoga pant girls with big legs, asses and defined muscles on their upper body.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2016 03:40 PM by Foolsgo1d.)
03-12-2016 03:39 PM
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General Stalin Offline
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Post: #1993
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-12-2016 03:20 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  I don't think my question warrants its own thread, so I'll ask it here.

Does it make any difference if you do all sets of the same exercise in a row vs. switching between different exercises after each set?

For example,

Pull-up X 3 sets X 8 reps. Then Dip X 3 X 8 vs.
Pull-up, Dip, Pull-up, Dip, Pull-up, Dip. 8 reps each.

I usually go for the second option, because (1) it gives the muscles a bit of time to recover between sets and (2) for some exercises, I can use the same machine/equipment for the alternate sets.

I lift regularly, but I'm not trying to achieve perfection, just keeping in shape if that matters.

Sounds like you're basically describing supersets, which are very efficient. Doing a set of one exercise then immediately doing a set of an exercise for the antagonist muscle/muscle group while the other muscle/muscle group rests. Do it! Its great for keeping you athletic. Keeping your heart rate up and blood pumping.
03-12-2016 03:58 PM
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realologist Offline
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Post: #1994
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-12-2016 03:20 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  I don't think my question warrants its own thread, so I'll ask it here.

Does it make any difference if you do all sets of the same exercise in a row vs. switching between different exercises after each set?

For example,

Pull-up X 3 sets X 8 reps. Then Dip X 3 X 8 vs.
Pull-up, Dip, Pull-up, Dip, Pull-up, Dip. 8 reps each.

I usually go for the second option, because (1) it gives the muscles a bit of time to recover between sets and (2) for some exercises, I can use the same machine/equipment for the alternate sets.

I lift regularly, but I'm not trying to achieve perfection, just keeping in shape if that matters.

I do this a lot to mix it up and keep my heart rate and conditioning up because I train more for athleticism than raw strength.

What I do is generally pick 3 exercises per superset and have the largest first and descend into the smallest with the same muscle group.

So for example if I did legs:

I'll do

Back squats x 1 rep

To

Weighted walking lunges x 5reps each leg

To

Box jumps x 2 reps

That's one super set. I do x3


Then I do another superset x3

Stiff legged deadlift x1rep

Standing broad jump x1rep

Calf raises exploding up and negative down x failure.

Absolutely wrecked after this workout. You get a lot of work done in a short period of time.
03-13-2016 06:19 PM
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redbeard Offline
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Post: #1995
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Anybody keen to a specific fiber supplement?

I've been taking TripleFiber regularly but it seems to be out of stock everywhere. Psyllium Husk is a no-go.
03-13-2016 09:14 PM
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Post: #1996
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-13-2016 09:14 PM)redbeard Wrote:  Anybody keen to a specific fiber supplement?

I've heard good things about fiber gummies
03-13-2016 10:28 PM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
Has anyone ever dealt with shin splints from basketball?

I play high intensity basketball 3 days a row, each week. On the last day I really feel the pain but push through, so I guess it's not as bad as some people get from running. I also don't get it from running alone; it's the jumping, turning, and stopping and starting that comes from regular play.

Googling told me the following:
- Typical RICE treatment
- do toe raises while leaning against a wall
- do toe raises in a leg press
- take a few weeks off

I've tried doing toe raises intermittently, it seems like it would help strengthen them but I haven't done them regularly to tell.
I've rested at the end of the season, but they just came back when I started playing again.

If anyone has any experience dealing with them that would be great.
03-14-2016 10:17 AM
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General Stalin Offline
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Post: #1998
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I used to suffer from awful shin splints because of performing in my band. Running and jumping around, stomping my feet, etc.

The thing that helped me the most was guying better shoes. I prefer minimalist style shoes. Allows your feet and overall posture to be more natural and rely on your body's natural support mechanics. Nothing with too much cushion and shit like that on the bottom, and nothing that tries to make you have a flat-foot stance.

I used to use Puma Speedcats and Adidas Sambas. Started wearing Nike frees and flyknits and shin splints went away. Just my $0.02
03-15-2016 04:05 PM
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realologist Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
Just had the first rugby practice. All I know is I'm confused as hell. There is so much to this game.

They said I will probably be a flanker once I learn more about the game. I know I'm ready for a game.
03-15-2016 07:29 PM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
@realologist, you a big guy? In my experience, flankers are big but lean. Usually fairly fast.
03-16-2016 09:02 AM
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