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Lifter's Lounge
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Balkan Offline
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Post: #2401
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-28-2016 08:11 AM)XXL Wrote:  I do high intensity, low volume, reverse pyramid training 3 times a week, push/pull/legs style. My question is it OK to do shoulder exercises with legs on leg day? Normally I was doing it on push day with chest and triceps but it's tiring to do shoulder presses etc after demanding chest exercises.

Rex said most of what I was going to say. I also do a 3-day circuit of push/pull/legs but I aim to hit each of those 2x/week, which allows me to do a chest dominate push (chess compound first) and shoulder dominated push (shoulder compound first). However, you probably aren't going up the frequency that much. Extending the 3-day circuit to a 4-day one works, each of those push workouts could be slightly shorter. You could also find exercises that work better in series. For example, if your shoulders are relatively weaker than your chest. You can overhead press first (shoulder compound) then do weighted dips second (chess compound). Might just be me but doing a non-horizontal press compound after the vertical press compound seems to avoid burnout a bit better.
05-28-2016 11:31 AM
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bacan Offline
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Post: #2402
RE: Lifter's Lounge
First time posting in this thread! I'm finally getting serious about lifting this year. I hit 315 squat, 325 deadlift... Need to get my bench up higher to post... (or need to get better at lying on the internet)
05-28-2016 11:12 PM
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birthday cat Offline
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Post: #2403
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-28-2016 08:11 AM)XXL Wrote:  I do high intensity, low volume, reverse pyramid training 3 times a week, push/pull/legs style. My question is it OK to do shoulder exercises with legs on leg day? Normally I was doing it on push day with chest and triceps but it's tiring to do shoulder presses etc after demanding chest exercises.

If you are doing high intensity, low volume then you may want to consider some of the basic strength training programs which are a full body workouts 3 times per week with a squat, push, and pull. There are many advantages to doing full body workouts so I don't think any other programming is going to be better if you are working out 3 days per week.

There are various splits with 4 day per week strength programs. I know Pendlay recommends getting as far was you can with 3 day per week programs and his favorite 4 days split is squatting and pressing on Monday and Thursday and pulling on Tuesday and Saturday.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2016 11:25 PM by birthday cat.)
05-28-2016 11:20 PM
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gske Offline
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Post: #2404
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-28-2016 11:12 PM)bacan Wrote:  First time posting in this thread! I'm finally getting serious about lifting this year. I hit 315 squat, 325 deadlift... Need to get my bench up higher to post... (or need to get better at lying on the internet)

Let me guess, you are a tall person with long arms? Just like me. It makes deadlifts and squats easier but is terrible to progress on the bench.
05-29-2016 05:22 AM
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kosko Offline
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Post: #2405
RE: Lifter's Lounge
A new PR milestone which is long overdue. I have finally hit 225 on bench. This should of happened a long time ago but it proves the power of how mental blocks can limit you in the gym (and in life).

I personally do not flat bench that often (I personally find it a bogus movement, it is a ego lift and not much more). I use standing OHP and incline for chest work with flies and other isolation for more finer grained tension if needed. I typically only do the flat bench once a month. For the longest time I have stalled on 205 for reasons I could never figure out. Literally for months I could not do anything more than 205 even though my incline and OHP would make steady progress. Getting to the point were I can do 225 on my incline (it was two dirty reps and I tweaked my shoulder doing it...but hey it counts lol) I realized that something was up mentally with me and the bench.

So fast forward to yesterday and rolling off little sleep, little desire to be at the gym, and a annoying girl I am working out with and trying to smash as well. I really did not care much about anything in that frame of space. I was too tired to stress about little things. All I just saw was weight infront of me to lift. I decided I would do some bench as she did her lady cable work. The weight as I went along just kept adding up and I did not feel stressed at all or weak. I put on the 4 plates and then I realized this would be a new thing for me and it kinda shook me. I gathered myself and just returned back to the DGAF zone and pumped it out 4 times with not that much effort, and clean reps. After a big high of achievement. It has been a long time since I have had a good high of a win/advancement and it felt great.

The take away lesson is that mental blocks and fear have to be turned off. These things stall you from growing. In my regular life stress is a huge thing I struggle to deal with. Stress has likely aged me far quicker and held me back from where I should be at stages on my life. Stress, fear, mental blocks all act as ropes and chains to keep you away from your goals. Learning to turn them off is likely one of the most important traits for a man to master. For me the goal is being able to turn off that bad energy without having to be sleep deprived and in a DGAF mode.
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2016 11:46 AM by kosko.)
05-29-2016 10:47 AM
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bacan Offline
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Post: #2406
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-29-2016 05:22 AM)gske Wrote:  
(05-28-2016 11:12 PM)bacan Wrote:  First time posting in this thread! I'm finally getting serious about lifting this year. I hit 315 squat, 325 deadlift... Need to get my bench up higher to post... (or need to get better at lying on the internet)

Let me guess, you are a tall person with long arms? Just like me. It makes deadlifts and squats easier but is terrible to progress on the bench.

Actually don't think that's the case. I'm just 5'9", maybe 5'10" if I'm lying on tinder. Never considered myself to have that great of a wingspan.

I have pretty good lower body strength from a life of playing soccer, but honestly I'm a little surprised that I was able to get into the 300s with what seems like less time in the gym than a lot of other guys. My bench isn't great though. Most I've ever done is 210x3 reps. (Nice job hitting 225, kosko).

Also, I have to thank whoever it was on RVF that recommended the fitnotes app for me. It has been great for tracking my progress.
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2016 01:41 PM by bacan.)
05-29-2016 01:39 PM
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kbell Offline
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Post: #2407
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Second time back to the gym and was able to do some light weights on my good arm. Lots of stretching primarily. Felt good to get out of the house too.
05-29-2016 04:41 PM
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #2408
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Any advice on specific training to incorporate for rugby? I've spoken to the captain of the local team and he was really enthusiastic about me getting involved.

I've got a couple of months before the next season's training starts. I'm going to do plenty of metcon work, some moderate distance running, and then probably try to add a bit of mass with my lifting. I'll probably work some odd object lifts back into my training, probably as part of the metcon stuff (eg 40m sprint, sb shoulderx2, 5x up downs, jog back etc). Ideally I'd like to be back over 190lbs before the season starts, fitter than I am now and a little stronger too. I'm looking forward to having some competitive focus to my training again.
05-29-2016 04:52 PM
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birthday cat Offline
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Post: #2409
RE: Lifter's Lounge
^ Weight training for explosiveness. The more advanced you are in terms of strength and knowledge of how to do olympic/power lifts - the more you will want to focus on those lifts. Sprints, cleans, snatches, push presses, plyo/clapping push-ups, etc.

I made a post with this link https://www.t-nation.com/training/too-much-muscle a few days ago but probably didn't explain it enough. It's an interview with Pendlay that covers several topics related to training for athletes such as olympic lifters, football players and rugby players.
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2016 06:17 PM by birthday cat.)
05-29-2016 06:06 PM
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Post: #2410
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Anyone heard of Danny Kavadlo? I just got his "Strength Rules" book - being strong and remaining flexible and agile is the goal for me. Simple exercises, eating natural foods. If as girl doesn't like the results, she can fuck off.

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(This post was last modified: 05-30-2016 05:47 AM by Sandstorm.)
05-30-2016 05:46 AM
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ball dont lie Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
Anyone have experience with a curved barbell like the one in the photo?

I've had a surgery on my labrum and while I am unable to really lowbar squat (with the bar in the middle of my shoulder blades, that far down) I am now able to very easily high bar squat.

I was thinking of trying something like this to make it easier to squat, less torque on my wrists and shoulders.

Any thoughts? Or just buy one of those Mantaray plastic things to put on my shoulders/neck/upper back to rest the bar in?


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05-30-2016 05:55 AM
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Post: #2412
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-29-2016 04:41 PM)kbell Wrote:  Second time back to the gym and was able to do some light weights on my good arm. Lots of stretching primarily. Felt good to get out of the house too.


Keep it up man. My pecs have exploded after my surgery. I really put a lot of attention on my shoulders and the results have been my chest and tri-ceps are enormous.


Keep doing that stretching, don't want anything to get too tight.
05-30-2016 05:58 AM
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Post: #2413
RE: Lifter's Lounge
H1N1,

Outside of your basic lifting and moderate running, I would put an emphasis on actually practicing Rugby. Back when I played a lot of American football, outside of some basic running/lifting, what actually made me better was endless practice of the sport, not the Olympic lifting/Powerlifting the coach worshipped as a second god. I think far too many people focus on training versus actually practicing the sport.

I don't know the ethics of your Rugby Federation/team but I'm sure many guys are using AAS, especially in the UK. Something to think about.
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2016 08:39 AM by MiscBrah.)
05-30-2016 08:35 AM
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Post: #2414
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-29-2016 10:47 AM)kosko Wrote:  A new PR milestone which is long overdue. I have finally hit 225 on bench. This should of happened a long time ago but it proves the power of how mental blocks can limit you in the gym (and in life).

I personally do not flat bench that often (I personally find it a bogus movement, it is a ego lift and not much more). I use standing OHP and incline for chest work with flies and other isolation for more finer grained tension if needed. I typically only do the flat bench once a month. For the longest time I have stalled on 205 for reasons I could never figure out. Literally for months I could not do anything more than 205 even though my incline and OHP would make steady progress. Getting to the point were I can do 225 on my incline (it was two dirty reps and I tweaked my shoulder doing it...but hey it counts lol) I realized that something was up mentally with me and the bench.

So fast forward to yesterday and rolling off little sleep, little desire to be at the gym, and a annoying girl I am working out with and trying to smash as well. I really did not care much about anything in that frame of space. I was too tired to stress about little things. All I just saw was weight infront of me to lift. I decided I would do some bench as she did her lady cable work. The weight as I went along just kept adding up and I did not feel stressed at all or weak. I put on the 4 plates and then I realized this would be a new thing for me and it kinda shook me. I gathered myself and just returned back to the DGAF zone and pumped it out 4 times with not that much effort, and clean reps. After a big high of achievement. It has been a long time since I have had a good high of a win/advancement and it felt great.

The take away lesson is that mental blocks and fear have to be turned off. These things stall you from growing. In my regular life stress is a huge thing I struggle to deal with. Stress has likely aged me far quicker and held me back from where I should be at stages on my life. Stress, fear, mental blocks all act as ropes and chains to keep you away from your goals. Learning to turn them off is likely one of the most important traits for a man to master. For me the goal is being able to turn off that bad energy without having to be sleep deprived and in a DGAF mode.

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05-30-2016 11:23 AM
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philosophical_recovery Offline
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Post: #2415
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Week 2 of arnie split.
This is exhausting. Huge volume compared to 5x5.

175x10, 175x9, then 165x7 on bench. My body is not used to that many reps on bench. Shaky as hell.

05-30-2016 12:49 PM
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kbell Offline
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Post: #2416
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Have to cut the weight down more than I thought for my "good "arm and limit range of motion so the shoulder isn't activated. Tendon feels raw from 15 lb curls and 10 lb tricep pushdowns. Its pretty easy to underestimate how much I'm using this arm. Might try lighter weight in a week and if that fails just do legs and core workouts that are light, until the good shoulder calms down.
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2016 01:21 PM by kbell.)
05-30-2016 01:17 PM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #2417
RE: Lifter's Lounge
kosko, do you bench with spotters?

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05-30-2016 03:43 PM
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Ringo Offline
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Post: #2418
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-29-2016 06:06 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  ^ Weight training for explosiveness. The more advanced you are in terms of strength and knowledge of how to do olympic/power lifts - the more you will want to focus on those lifts. Sprints, cleans, snatches, push presses, plyo/clapping push-ups, etc.

I made a post with this link https://www.t-nation.com/training/too-much-muscle a few days ago but probably didn't explain it enough. It's an interview with Pendlay that covers several topics related to training for athletes such as olympic lifters, football players and rugby players.

I remember listening to some big time expert (maybe it was Steve Maxwell?) talking about why he didn't prescribe olympic lifts to his athletes. The argument was that these lifts are so technical that the time spent perfecting the technique to get maximum results and avoid injury would take time away from the sport-specific training itself. I tend to agree.

I'm far from being an expert but I would (actually, always have) prefer doing simpler exercises: chinups, dips, squats, lunges, deadlifts - all of which are easier to master than a heavy snatch.

As H1N1 mentioned, if you are manipulating bodies (grappling, rugby) sandbag training should also be a fantastic tool.

I just don't see the point in mastering a highly complex lift if you are not specializing in the sport of lifting itself - time investment and injury risk are too high.

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05-30-2016 04:08 PM
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Ringo Offline
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Post: #2419
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Found it:





I'm a huge fan of this guy, highly recommend his long interviews on JRE and London Real if anyone's interested.

If you don't know who he is or why his opinon is worth listening to, he's a trainer with decades of experience; collegiate wrestler and BJJ black belt under Relson Gracie; kettlebell specialist; travels the world carrying all of his belongings in a 90L bag and teaching mobility, S&C and jiu-jitsu seminars; and looks like this at 60+:

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(This post was last modified: 05-30-2016 04:31 PM by Ringo.)
05-30-2016 04:31 PM
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Post: #2420
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-30-2016 05:55 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  Anyone have experience with a curved barbell like the one in the photo?

I've had a surgery on my labrum and while I am unable to really lowbar squat (with the bar in the middle of my shoulder blades, that far down) I am now able to very easily high bar squat.

I was thinking of trying something like this to make it easier to squat, less torque on my wrists and shoulders.

Any thoughts? Or just buy one of those Mantaray plastic things to put on my shoulders/neck/upper back to rest the bar in?

The IronMind Buffalo bar is outstanding; I think it's the one in the photo. It allows those with shoulder mobility problems to squat pain free. I strongly recommend it.

"For you yourselves are aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night" (1 Thess. 5:2)
05-30-2016 04:33 PM
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Killer Joe Offline
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Post: #2421
RE: Lifter's Lounge
God, I fucking hate lifting.

I'm currently doing stronglifts 5x5. It calls for using the squat rack for most excercises, and there's only 1 squat rack IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING GYM. Thus, there's a 50% chance someone will be using the fucking thing when I get there, and if that happens there's a 90% chance the person using it will be a fucking asshole

Last week I had to deal with this prick who spends 2/3 of his "workout" talking to other people. I asked him "How many sets do you have left?", he answers "All of them, I'm just starting", so I suggest "Is it OK if we alternate?", he replies: "Sorry, I'm working with her" and points to the girl working out in the smith machine. So I leave to do some cardio and come back 30 minutes later. He's still there. I call him out on it "I've been waiting for you 30minutes. You do realize you don't own the gym and we have to share the equipment?". He gets mad, throws a tantrum saying "Fine, use it!", takes his shit and leaves.

Right now I'm waiting for this other self-absorbed dipshit to finish doing his 95lb light deadlifts.

I guess I could switch routines and shit, but doing Stronglifts makes things quicker and simpler. Unfortunately, this is the shit I end up having to deal with. So a new routine it is.
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2016 05:24 PM by Killer Joe.)
05-30-2016 05:20 PM
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philosophical_recovery Offline
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Post: #2422
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Any way you can find a new gym? Have 3 racks here, and 2 benches for dedicated barbell bench plus many other for dumbbells. I usually can squeeze in or work in with someone if it's that busy.

I wouldn't pay for a gym that had one squat rack. Hopefully that's not your only option.

05-30-2016 05:51 PM
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General Stalin Offline
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Post: #2423
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-30-2016 05:55 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  Anyone have experience with a curved barbell like the one in the photo?

I've had a surgery on my labrum and while I am unable to really lowbar squat (with the bar in the middle of my shoulder blades, that far down) I am now able to very easily high bar squat.

I was thinking of trying something like this to make it easier to squat, less torque on my wrists and shoulders.

Any thoughts? Or just buy one of those Mantaray plastic things to put on my shoulders/neck/upper back to rest the bar in?

Called a "Buffalo Bar" and it's very comfortable to use especially if you low bar squat. It's easier on the wrists and elbows. I don't use it personally as I'm just so used to using a straight bar - actually prefer to use a thicker 55 lbs straight barbell, but one of my good lifting buddies always uses the buffalo bar for squat.

If possible see if you can find a gym in your area that has one so you can try it out before you buy as they aren't too cheap.

(05-30-2016 05:20 PM)Killer Joe Wrote:  God, I fucking hate lifting.

I'm currently doing stronglifts 5x5. It calls for using the squat rack for most excercises, and there's only 1 squat rack IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING GYM. Thus, there's a 50% chance someone will be using the fucking thing when I get there, and if that happens there's a 90% chance the person using it will be a fucking asshole

Last week I had to deal with this prick who spends 2/3 of his "workout" talking to other people. I asked him "How many sets do you have left?", he answers "All of them, I'm just starting", so I suggest "Is it OK if we alternate?", he replies: "Sorry, I'm working with her" and points to the girl working out in the smith machine. So I leave to do some cardio and come back 30 minutes later. He's still there. I call him out on it "I've been waiting for you 30minutes. You do realize you don't own the gym and we have to share the equipment?". He gets mad, throws a tantrum saying "Fine, use it!", takes his shit and leaves.

Right now I'm waiting for this other self-absorbed dipshit to finish doing his 95lb light deadlifts.

I guess I could switch routines and shit, but doing Stronglifts makes things quicker and simpler. Unfortunately, this is the shit I end up having to deal with. So a new routine it is.

Man you gotta find a more powerlifting-friendly gym. One squat rack is brutal - either that or find lower traffic times of the day to go where the meatheads aren't gonna be in there hogging it up.
05-30-2016 05:57 PM
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birthday cat Offline
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Post: #2424
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-30-2016 04:08 PM)Ringo Wrote:  
(05-29-2016 06:06 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  ^ Weight training for explosiveness. The more advanced you are in terms of strength and knowledge of how to do olympic/power lifts - the more you will want to focus on those lifts. Sprints, cleans, snatches, push presses, plyo/clapping push-ups, etc.

I made a post with this link https://www.t-nation.com/training/too-much-muscle a few days ago but probably didn't explain it enough. It's an interview with Pendlay that covers several topics related to training for athletes such as olympic lifters, football players and rugby players.

I remember listening to some big time expert (maybe it was Steve Maxwell?) talking about why he didn't prescribe olympic lifts to his athletes. The argument was that these lifts are so technical that the time spent perfecting the technique to get maximum results and avoid injury would take time away from the sport-specific training itself. I tend to agree.

I'm far from being an expert but I would (actually, always have) prefer doing simpler exercises: chinups, dips, squats, lunges, deadlifts - all of which are easier to master than a heavy snatch.

As H1N1 mentioned, if you are manipulating bodies (grappling, rugby) sandbag training should also be a fantastic tool.

I just don't see the point in mastering a highly complex lift if you are not specializing in the sport of lifting itself - time investment and injury risk are too high.

If you don't know how to do olympic lifts then don't do them.

There are simpler versions that might be worth learning - power clean, hang clean, power snatch

Without olympic lifts or their simpler versions you still have many options such as:
sprints
box jumps
pendlay rows (pulled explosively from the floor)
plyo/clapping push-ups
push press (think about the explosive overhead movement of a push press versus a bench press, which one applies more to a scrum in rugby)

The point is that athletes need to be more than strong. They need "power" which is the ability to apply strength quickly. The powerlifting expert on this forum (StrikeBack) refers to Starting Strength and StrongLifts as Slowing Strength and SlowLifts...think about that.

You can also learn how to do the strength exercises in more explosive ways. For example, I know a guy who has won many national level powerlifting competitions and trains college and pro athletes. His squats in powerlifting are low-bar to just below parallel and fairly slow due to the heavy weight but when he trains his athletes their squats are high-bar, ass to grass, bounce at the bottom, and as fast as possible on the way up.
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2016 07:20 PM by birthday cat.)
05-30-2016 06:57 PM
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Post: #2425
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Indians do always do the weirdest exercises at gyms. This Indian duo once started decline benching and the other guy was spotting him from the front ... like his dick between the other guy's pecs ... weird as fuck.

Today, I saw another Indian guy doing one-arm shrugs facing sideways on the smith machine. Looked interesting so once he walked away, I sprinted in and tried it out. FANTASTIC, trap activation. Learned something new.

You guys should try it out.
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2016 08:28 PM by Anabasis to Desta.)
05-30-2016 08:26 PM
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