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Lifter's Lounge
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cubanlinx Offline
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Post: #2426
RE: Lifter's Lounge
@Anabasis, I can vouch for the one armed smith machine shrug. It's great.
05-31-2016 12:07 AM
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zatara Offline
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Post: #2427
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-29-2016 04:52 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  Any advice on specific training to incorporate for rugby? I've spoken to the captain of the local team and he was really enthusiastic about me getting involved.

I've got a couple of months before the next season's training starts. I'm going to do plenty of metcon work, some moderate distance running, and then probably try to add a bit of mass with my lifting. I'll probably work some odd object lifts back into my training, probably as part of the metcon stuff (eg 40m sprint, sb shoulderx2, 5x up downs, jog back etc). Ideally I'd like to be back over 190lbs before the season starts, fitter than I am now and a little stronger too. I'm looking forward to having some competitive focus to my training again.

Slightly late here but hopefully you see this.

I was a very small teenager so my preseason training when playing in uni was usually focused mostly on gaining weight, and only maintaining a baseline of cardio performance. As such, I did 60min of weights Mon/Tues/Wed/Thu and then a 30min HIIT sprint session on Fridays. Lots of focus on heavy compound movements in the weight training. I'd imagine you'll have the weights side of things down fairly well, so I won't really go into that.

If you're trying to get your cardio in order from a low baseline though you might need to have 2x week cardio sessions, rather than the 1x that players focusing on weight gain go for.

You've got the right idea focusing on running based metcon stuff. The days of going for long jogs, or laps around a pitch, for conditioning are long over. Anecdotally, I found my playing on the wing was pretty much walk>jog>SPRINT>jog>walk>SPRINT>jog etc. The jogging and walking were never a problem, its the sprints that wreck you. So sprint training of various distances was what I found best prepared for playing a match.

Science tends to back this up:
Quote:Data revealed that players covered on average 6,953 m during play (83 minutes). Of this distance, 37% (2,800 m) was spent standing and walking, 27% (1,900 m) jogging, 10% (700 m) cruising, 14% (990 m) striding, 5% (320 m) high-intensity running, and 6% (420 m) sprinting. Positional data revealed that the backs performed a greater number of sprints than the forwards (34 vs. 19) during the game. Players were found to perform 87 moderate-intensity runs (>14 kmh) covering an average distance of 19.7m.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19528840

I think either 1x weekly or 2x weekly (depending on your preferences for weight gain vs cardio improvement) sprint based training sessions will do you fine. I wouldn't recommend any one variety in particular - just do something you'll enjoy, you'll stick to, and you can progress at. My personal preference was 50m HIIT sprints.

Lots of the national teams publicly release training guidelines, they might also be of use to you for creating a training program. Here's the South African one:

http://www.sarugby.co.za/boksmart/pdf/Bo...0rugby.pdf

The only other thing I'd add is if you can find a mate or two to throw a ball around with once a week casually for 30min it'd really help your handling skills.
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2016 02:47 PM by zatara.)
05-31-2016 02:43 PM
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realologist Offline
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Post: #2428
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I can't stand having shitty workouts. I wanted to stop about halfway through. Just grinded through it and finished. It was rough though.
05-31-2016 06:21 PM
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Post: #2429
RE: Lifter's Lounge
^ Which is the key to success in any endeavor - not only bodybuilding.

Motivation is overrated. Most guys fail because of lack of consistency. A shitty program done consistently over a long period of time ( 2years plus) with a decent diet ... trumps a perfect program with a perfect diet, perfect supplementation and perfect rest done inconsistently.

Good job brah!
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2016 08:18 PM by Anabasis to Desta.)
05-31-2016 08:16 PM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #2430
RE: Lifter's Lounge
just came back from the gym, feeling stronger with new dietary intake. Did dumbbell flyes on flat bench with 35lbs for 12 reps x 6. did hyperextensions with a medicine ball (not going past parallel). Also did crunches in the crunch machine.

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05-31-2016 08:41 PM
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Adonis Offline
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Post: #2431
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Damn fine day today gents. Took my pre and mowed my lawn like a maniac, then hit a post injury squat PR @ 225x5 ATG (w/belt). Sitting at roughly 3650 cal for the day with 180g protein.
05-31-2016 11:08 PM
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Hallasan Offline
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Post: #2432
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(05-31-2016 11:08 PM)P Bateman Wrote:  Damn fine day today gents. Took my pre and mowed my lawn like a maniac, then hit a post injury squat PR @ 225x5 ATG (w/belt). Sitting at roughly 3650 cal for the day with 180g protein.

Goddamn, I had a similar workout today but only allowed myself half that many calories as I cut. That is so many calories, what are you eating in a typical day?
06-01-2016 12:42 AM
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Adonis Offline
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Post: #2433
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(06-01-2016 12:42 AM)Hallasan Wrote:  
(05-31-2016 11:08 PM)P Bateman Wrote:  Damn fine day today gents. Took my pre and mowed my lawn like a maniac, then hit a post injury squat PR @ 225x5 ATG (w/belt). Sitting at roughly 3650 cal for the day with 180g protein.

Goddamn, I had a similar workout today but only allowed myself half that many calories as I cut. That is so many calories, what are you eating in a typical day?

This is today though Im usually well over 4000 or even close to 5000 depending on what Im doing. Its the only way I can gain weight to eat like this and lift heavy. Im 6'2" and about 185 right now up from mid 160's. Goal is 190+ @ 10% bf, I think I am about 12% right now. You should see me at In-N-Out, I get 3 double doubles, a fry, and a shake its ridiculous. I don't eat bread or other grain products in any significant quantity so its a chore to get this many calories.

Breakfast -3 eggs, 1 sweet potato, 1 tbsp butter, banana w/almond butter = 650
Morning snack -Quest bar = 190
Post workout -16 oz milk, 1 scoop protein, 1/4 cup almond butter, banana = 900
Meal #1 -8oz salmon, 1/2 spaghetti squash, 1/4 cup pesto = 880
Meal #2 -2 pork chops, 1 lb asparagus = 400
Dessert -ice cream = 250
Bedtime -16oz milk, 1 scoop protein = 400
06-01-2016 01:09 AM
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philosophical_recovery Offline
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Post: #2434
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Midway on week 2 of Arnold's reduced split program. Subbed front squats for squats and hypers for good mornings. Using very low weight for both to ensure I don't reinjure my back.

It's quite humbling how much of a burn I'm getting on low weight lunges. Last year i hit an all time squat PR of 325 and here I am feeling that 20lb dumbbell lunges are as much as I should push it.

Been noticing a massive need for rest compared to 5x5s. However, the impacts between weightlifting and climbing and other activities seems to be a lot less.

Also enjoying chin ups, as I hadn't been doing them before, but was relying on climbing. Got very self-homo because the bar is in front of the mirror and I hadn't noticed that the girth of my arms while doing that is huge. I still remember being a scrawny kid with noodle arms back in the day.

(This post was last modified: 06-01-2016 01:59 PM by philosophical_recovery.)
06-01-2016 01:58 PM
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XXL Offline
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Post: #2435
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Does taking cold showers right after workout have any special benefit? Does it make any difference than taking it in any time of day?
06-02-2016 01:51 PM
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johnfortunebg Offline
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Post: #2436
RE: Lifter's Lounge
1 month into cutting, I have lost ~2 cm of my waist with minimal muscle mass loss.
I have very slightly increased reps on some exercises. Only dropped squats from 7 sets down to 5 sets with weights + 1 set with bodyweight till failure.

2 more months and I'm done with that shit for the year. I want calories.
06-02-2016 03:39 PM
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heavy Offline
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Post: #2437
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(06-02-2016 01:51 PM)XXL Wrote:  Does taking cold showers right after workout have any special benefit? Does it make any difference than taking it in any time of day?

Dr Rhonda Patrick has a lot to say on this on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast.

I remember her saying cold showers right after a workout lowers the benefits of the workout. There's more to it than that, but she did say that.

I think this is the podcast...around 1:24



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(This post was last modified: 06-02-2016 03:46 PM by heavy.)
06-02-2016 03:45 PM
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philosophical_recovery Offline
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Post: #2438
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Arms and shoulders today. Chest and can yesterday.

175x10 175x9 165x8 on bench yesterday
95x10x2 plus 90x10 OHP today.

Arms and chest are wrecked. Had trouble getting biceps into dress polo. Feels great!

06-03-2016 06:52 PM
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alexdagr81 Offline
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Post: #2439
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Had a good lifting week this week. Did a few Joker sets

Press: 140x3, 145x1
Squat: 330x3
Bench Press: 205x4 (should've been 3), 215x1, 225x1
Deadlift: 380x3, 400x1.

Weigh 160.
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2016 12:21 AM by alexdagr81.)
06-04-2016 12:20 AM
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Hannibal Offline
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Post: #2440
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(06-02-2016 01:51 PM)XXL Wrote:  Does taking cold showers right after workout have any special benefit? Does it make any difference than taking it in any time of day?

When you work out, you induce inflammation, which causes muscular growth.

When you take a cold shower, you reduce inflammation, which is great for most cases except after a workout.

Apparently a cold shower right after a workout will grant you only 1/3 the hypertrophy benefits after a 10 week lifting program, all other things being equal.

So you want to wait at least an hour after working out to take a cold shower if you decide to take a cold shower.

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06-04-2016 02:16 PM
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General Stalin Offline
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Post: #2441
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Starting to run into a issue with juggling my fitness goals and the rest of my lifestyle. I don't sleep enough to make proper recovery and growth, and I don't think I'm eating enough either.

I stay up late every night and wake up early for my 9-5, and at least 2 nights out of the week I go out and/or have girls over and I don't get to bed until like 3:00am. I've gotten into this habit where I go to the gym super late (show up anywhere from 10-11:30pm and don't leave till like midnight/1am).

Had a decent chest/tri workout last night but didn't see any improvement over last week's workout. Some lifts seemed easier some seemed harder. I attribute it to my energy level mainly. Why do you guys do to stay energized for the gym?
06-04-2016 05:22 PM
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #2442
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(06-04-2016 05:22 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Had a decent chest/tri workout last night but didn't see any improvement over last week's workout. Some lifts seemed easier some seemed harder. I attribute it to my energy level mainly. Why do you guys do to stay energized for the gym?

It seems like you know the answer to this dude. You stay energised for the gym by not fucking all the things up you mentioned in your post. Eat right, sleep enough, and train at a time that allows you to make progress.

I suspect you are doing serious damage to your sleep by training late at night. I have no studies to back it up, but that kind of exertion late at night seems as though it is bound to keep you up later. I know after boxing, when I trained late or stayed behind to get in more rounds of sparring, I always had a shitty night's sleep.

You'd be better doing two days hard training on the weekend at a sensible time, and fitting in some bodyweight and conditioning stuff during the week, than fucking yourself around doing what you're doing.
06-04-2016 05:31 PM
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Adonis Offline
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Post: #2443
RE: Lifter's Lounge
H1N1 has solid advice. There is no way around it, if you want the gains whether they be size strength etc you have to eat right and sleep enough.

I slip up sometimes, but I usually sacrifice pussy for working out and sleeping enough. If I work a 9-5 I like to workout early before work because A. I am energized all day and B. by about 10 pm Im ready to get some good sleep. I have lax hours now so Ive been working out from 11am-1pm
06-04-2016 05:38 PM
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Post: #2444
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I suffer from a "not enough hours in each day" lifestyle - which could also just be a cop out for poor time management. This is why I tend to stay up so late too, so I make enough time in my evenings for all the things I want to do with my day. I used to go straight to the gym from work, but I have since stopped because traffic blows that time of day and it's usually kind of crowded - but again these are just excuses that lead to me going to the gym at less optimum times for the sake of convenience.

Definitely need to start getting back on track here.
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2016 06:12 PM by General Stalin.)
06-04-2016 06:12 PM
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Post: #2445
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Article by Dorian Yates regarding back training and how underhand, narrow grip pulls work the lats much more effectively than common the wide-grip pronated. Lats have improved in like 2 weeks - no joke. Shamelessly copy-pasting it here ...

Edit: If your gym doesn't have a Nautilus Pullover Machine like mine, you can do this. Dumbell pullovers DO NOT work nearly as well as these. Some dudes at the gym might stare at you but I guarantee that a week later, you'll see a couple bros doing the same. It's THAT effective.





Quote:The Myth of Wide-grip Superiority

One myth that has held back the development of lats the world over is the persistent idea that using a wide grip on chins and pulldowns is the best way to build wider lats. This myth probably has its origins in the fact that using a wide grip on any vertical pulling motion will selectively recruit the smaller upper back muscles like the teres major and minor, the upper portion of the traps, and the rhomboids.

When a bodybuilder feels these smaller muscle groups at the top of the back working, he often assumes he is making his lats wider. But the lats actually originate under the armpits and insert near the waist. Using a wide grip does not provide anywhere near a full range of motion for them. A narrower grip, in contrast, allows both a better stretch and a more complete contraction. If you don’t believe me, pantomime two types of pulldowns right now as you read this, doing your best to contract the lats as hard as possible: a wide-grip pulldown and a narrow, underhand grip. I guarantee you that you will feel a more powerful contraction of the lats with the narrow underhand grip.

In my early career, I experimented with various types of grips, and I found that using a closer grip with the hands either parallel (facing each other) or fully supinated (underhand) actually provided the best contraction and most complete range of motion for the lats. Throughout my Mr. Olympia reign, I never did a single set of wide-grip chins or lat pulldowns. My two choices for vertical pulling were always a narrow underhand grip for lat pulldowns, which I would go up to 400 pounds on, and the Hammer Strength Iso-lateral pulldown machine.

A final reason to consider using a narrow grip beyond the issue of range of motion is the fact that it puts the biceps in a stronger position. Since the biceps are far smaller and weaker than the lats, putting them in a position where they are guaranteed to fail before the lats are properly stimulated, as in any wide-grip vertical pull, will cause you to shortchange your potential growth.

Putting Together the Ideal Back Workout The back is a very large and complex group of muscles, but the ideal back training routine needn’t be overly long or complicated. Here’s what I recommend based on what I found to work best over my competitive career.

1. Nautilus pullovers (if available)

Arthur Jones capitalized on the concept of pre-exhausting back in the early ’70s when he designed the first Nautilus pullover machine, which he referred to as “The Upper Body Squat.” The beauty of this piece of equipment is that it allows the lats to be worked directly without having to go through the ‘weak link in the chain’ represented by the biceps. The lats can be worked through 180 degrees of motion to failure, and that failure is not limited in any way by the biceps, as they are not involved.

I know that not every gym has one of these machines, but I have had one at Temple Gym for over 20 years and consider it to be priceless in the quest for a bigger back. Another advantage to doing pullovers first is that you pre-exhaust the lats. It will take less weight in the subsequent rowing and pulldown movements to thoroughly fatigue the lats, and they will reach that fatigue without being limited so much by the biceps.

You can use a dumbbell for pullovers if you don’t have access to a machine, but the range of motion is shorter and it’s difficult to keep the triceps out of the motion. A straight-arm cable pullover is another option, but it’s tough to use enough resistance and stay on the floor at the same time.

A Close-grip Pulldown Movement As I said before, I preferred a close-grip cable pulldown, usually with an underhand grip. This provides the most complete range of motion for the lats and also puts the biceps in the strongest pulling position possible.

Barbell or Dumbbell Rows The two most productive vertical pulling movements I found were barbell rows and one-arm dumbbell rows. I often would alternate between the two from workout to workout. With barbell rows, I discovered through experimentation that an underhand grip put the biceps in a stronger position. I also found that standing at roughly a 70° angle and pulling into the waist worked the lats more completely than the ‘old-school’ style of bending over with the torso parallel to the ground and pulling into the chest, which worked more of the upper back muscles, as opposed to the actual lats.

Cable or Hammer Strength Seated Row I would also do some type of horizontal rowing movement, either the Hammer Strength seated row you’ve probably seen the famous black and white shots of me doing, or seated cable rows. The machine is a perfect choice for anyone who has lower back problems that could be aggravated by barbell rows. However, if you keep your back arched instead of rounded, that shouldn’t be an issue. I usually did both a free weight row as well as either a seated machine or cable row in my routines.

Deadlifts The order of the aforementioned exercises isn’t overly important, but I do feel that doing deadlifts last as I always did is the best way to include them in your back routine. Very heavy deadlifts can put a great deal of stress on the spine as well as other areas. Had I performed deadlifts first, it would have required something like 600 or maybe even 700 pounds for me to reach failure with 6-8 reps. Instead, I did them last and needed only 405-495 pounds at most to get the job done. Also, I never did my reps from the floor up, but from the mid-shin. The initial pull off the floor is mainly using the legs and glutes, which I didn’t care to train on back day.

A Final Word on Momentum If there is one culprit to blame for lack of back development in bodybuilders, it’s the use of momentum to move the weight, rather than pure lat power. One must keep in mind that there are three types of strength: positive (lifting the weight), static (the peak contraction at the top of the rep where the muscle is fully contracted), and negative (lowering).

Your strength is actually the least in the positive and the greatest in the negative. In other words, if you can lift 200 pounds, you can probably hold 250 pounds in the peak contraction and can lower about 300 pounds in the negative. That’s just a very rough example. Most bodybuilders really only perform the positive portion of the rep and completely miss out on the other two possible areas.

A quick test to see if this describes you is to see if you can stop each rep at the peak contraction and pause to fully contract the lats, then lower it slowly under control for a good stretch. If you can’t, you’re using too much weight and would actually benefit greatly by reducing the resistance. Studies have shown that the negative portion of the rep causes more muscle damage and stimulates greater gains in strength than the lifting itself.

Summary: A Great Back Can Be Yours So, armed with all this knowledge— can you now go forth and build a back like mine or Ronnie Coleman’s? I can’t say for certain that you can, but if you go about your back training in the proper manner, you at least stand a fighting chance. Having the confidence that you can improve the development of your back, along with the knowledge of how to train it properly, will mean that whatever your back looks like at the present moment, in time you can indeed make it wider, thicker, and more impressive.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2016 05:35 PM by Anabasis to Desta.)
06-05-2016 05:09 PM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(06-05-2016 05:09 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  Edit: If your gym doesn't have a Nautilus Pullover Machine like mine, you can do this. Dumbell pullovers DO NOT work nearly as well as these. Some dudes at the gym might stare at you but I guarantee that a week later, you'll see a couple bros doing the same. It's THAT effective.




Hate moving the bench to the machines. Have you tried the below instead? Wonder how they compare because of the angle.




Yates mentions the downside of not being able to add enough weight without being lifted up. I've used this exercise before and I never felt that - hardest part was actually keeping the arms straight and doing a slow rep firing the lat.

Then again, the bastard was doing lat pulldowns with 400lbs.

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(This post was last modified: 06-05-2016 07:33 PM by Ringo.)
06-05-2016 07:32 PM
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Post: #2447
RE: Lifter's Lounge
After cutting 20lbs in the last 12 weeks, I tested 1 rep max Dead lift today and surprisingly was able to match what i could do 3 months ago. Don't give up on maintaining your gains when cutting!
06-05-2016 07:47 PM
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Post: #2448
RE: Lifter's Lounge
@ Ringo,

The lat activation is not even close. The Nautilus machine alternative I posted above puts your biceps, forearms & mid-back out of the equation. Then again, everybody is different. I know guys who swear by Kroc Rows which I never liked.

Also tend to get bored easily and can't stick to a program for too long without mixing it up a little.

(06-05-2016 07:47 PM)Hallasan Wrote:  After cutting 20lbs in the last 12 weeks, I tested 1 rep max Dead lift today and surprisingly was able to match what i could do 3 months ago. Don't give up on maintaining your gains when cutting!

Good job.

But I've found that Deadlifts don't suffer that much from cutting. Bench is where most people notice significant strength loss during a cut.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2016 07:58 PM by Anabasis to Desta.)
06-05-2016 07:54 PM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(06-04-2016 05:31 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  I suspect you are doing serious damage to your sleep by training late at night. I have no studies to back it up, but that kind of exertion late at night seems as though it is bound to keep you up later. I know after boxing, when I trained late or stayed behind to get in more rounds of sparring, I always had a shitty night's sleep.

You'd be better doing two days hard training on the weekend at a sensible time, and fitting in some bodyweight and conditioning stuff during the week, than fucking yourself around doing what you're doing.

Agree. I've had similar experiences especially with conditioning or cardio at night.

(06-04-2016 06:12 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  I suffer from a "not enough hours in each day" lifestyle - which could also just be a cop out for poor time management. This is why I tend to stay up so late too, so I make enough time in my evenings for all the things I want to do with my day. I used to go straight to the gym from work, but I have since stopped because traffic blows that time of day and it's usually kind of crowded - but again these are just excuses that lead to me going to the gym at less optimum times for the sake of convenience.

Definitely need to start getting back on track here.

One option might to train hard on Saturday and Sunday and do a medium day on Wednesday (or light days on Tuesday and Thursday).

The "Lilliebridge Method" program is Saturday, Sunday, and Wednesday - http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/lilliebridge-method/

Powerlifting might not be your thing but the point is that those guys run a weekend plus wednesday program and squat over a 1000 pounds so it can work.
06-05-2016 10:06 PM
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Post: #2450
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Appreciate the lat information Anabasis.

I've been doing a bunch of weighted wide grip pull-ups on chest and back day, but I'm going to incorporate some of that knowledge into my lifting.

Also that positive-static-negative information was great.

“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”
06-06-2016 12:29 PM
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