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Lifter's Lounge
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dog24 Offline
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Post: #1426
RE: Lifter's Lounge



These judges need to be shot
10-17-2015 02:41 PM
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Post: #1427
RE: Lifter's Lounge
This article talks about gaining 10 lbs of muscle in 4 weeks. Which seems pretty outrageous to me. Maybe if you have never lifted and no mention of how much fat you would gain also.

Or am I totally off and this is possible? I had a couple of months off of boxing and lifting. I did a little cardio and some body weight stuff but nothing heavy. I have a renewed interest in lifting and trying to really max out my time and effort.

Any thoughts on best way to quickly add muscle? I am not a beginner but never really had a structured program. I just try to hit the major muscle groups and try to go heavy. But I don't ever write anything down etc.

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts...-4-weeks-1

However, someone I respect greatly said the fastest way to look bigger is to tighten up. I gained a few pounds during my break. But tightening up seems to run contrary to gaining muscle.

Thanks.

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(This post was last modified: 10-18-2015 01:13 AM by samsamsam.)
10-18-2015 01:12 AM
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StrikeBack Offline
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Post: #1428
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(10-17-2015 02:41 PM)dog24 Wrote:  


These judges need to be shot

No they don't. Rather, people who follow powerlifting, especially athletes and coaches, need to read the freaking rule book and stop using Youtube video.

Candito just happened to have a video to address this:





If you know the competition, you will see that the center ref gave him a white light, but 2 side refs (best positioned to see depth) gave him red.

The uninitiated will always look at how low the guy's upper body is to the ground, as it gives the impression of depth.

Side referees look at his hips, specifically hip crease below top of knees. The rule book states this very clearly, and has detailed pictures showing it, but hardly anyone who criticises the IPF for being overly strict on depth has ever read the freaking rule book. The video may not have them in it, but in the actual competition, you'll likely find the refs have their eyes right at the lifter's hip level from the sides.

I have watched plenty of lifting competitions right on the platform as a spotter and loader, so I usually have the same view as the refs. Jesse Norris squatted to that borderline depth zone where you're just as likely to get 2 reds (fail) or 2 whites (pass) out of 3.

Also, if he looks borderline in a video filmed from a downward angle (very favourable for depth) then he will definitely be high for someone watching right at the horizontal line of his hip crease.

This is a very Anglosphere thing, as we are often taught squat techniques that are higher than say the Europeans who usually come from some weightlifting background where they squat deeper. You can thank Mark Rippetoe for that, as most of those guys started with Starting Strength style, a high squat technique. In every IPF world championship, it's nearly always the Americans, Canadians and the likes who get caught with depth.

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10-18-2015 07:27 PM
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dog24 Offline
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Post: #1429
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Not gonna argue with you since you know a lot more about powerliting than i do, i just saw it on my youtube feed and posted here.

I did read a couple of posts on other forums after that said politics might be involved on this one, what do you think about the fact that he competed in non tested meets before?

I did watch the squat record by Layne Norton in the IPF and it didnt look deeper than Jesse Norris's squat.

Maybe powerlifters should just switch to high bar and do real squats from now on tard
10-18-2015 08:15 PM
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StrikeBack Offline
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Post: #1430
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Yeah I just wanted to clear it up as every time something like this happens, people get on the hate bandwagon for referees in the IPF and USAPL, or Powerlifting Australia in my case, without knowing the rules. Speaking of which,

Quote:I did read a couple of posts on other forums after that said politics might be involved on this one, what do you think about the fact that he competed in non tested meets before?

This is not politics, this is in the rule book, common sense and widely known. If you have competed at a high level in another untested federation and join an IPF affiliate, you will have a few things coming your way:

- No setting national records for the first 6 months (preventing people from hopping feds and setting records)
- If your previous fed is known for many PED users, then they will point drug testers your way.
- If your previous fed is known for passing high squats, they will watch your depth like a hawk.

With the first two points, I can only speak for Australia, but we've caught a lot of them. Our list of banned users from the last few years are all PED users from untested feds jumping into ours for "shits and giggles" and trying to disrespect our IPF-affiliated fed. So you can see why IPF affiliates like USAPL would be skeptical about those lifters.

With the third point, even if you're in USAPL all your life and you're known to squat borderline, they will watch your depth very closely. Competitors generally are told by their coaches to take an easy first attempt and sink it well deep, so that they make a good impression on the referees, which is a common thing in sports really. If your first squat is high or borderline, you will get extra attention on depth subsequently, which may not go your way.

By the way, for every guy who apparently got "robbed", you would see at least another who "gets away" with 2 whites 1 red. It's called human errors and why there are 3 referees. There were 1142 competitors in the entire championship, with 170 in the 93kg class that Jesse Norris is in. Multiply that by 9 for the number of attempts, and keep in mind that the referees are mostly volunteers (many are lifters themselves) so there are not that many of them. If out of 10 thousand calls, only one is controversial, that's a pretty good rate.

There's also an on-the-spot appeal process for people who think the decision was incorrect. If Norris' camp thought that was a bad call, the coach should've made a bee line towards the tech table, but either he doesn't have a coach or both coach and lifter did not know it (it's in the rule book). Else we would've heard about the appeal.

At the world championship, there's also a jury table of 5 jurors who could overturn the referees' decision, sometimes for, other times against the lifter.

These points are well known about the IPF for powerlifters of all federations. There are some, however, would feign surprises when they get caught out and go to social media to get sympathy votes from people who are not aware of the rules. I wrote this lengthy post because I want to help put an end to it.

Quote:Maybe powerlifters should just switch to high bar and do real squats from now on

Lots of them do. Watch the IPF World Championships sometimes.

Also, it's not always high bar = depth. Once more, competition squat depth is hip crease below top of knees, not how close to the ground your arse is. If your arse (thus hip crease) goes really low but your knees also go low and forward, then you might only be at parallel or barely breaking it in your ATG position.

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10-18-2015 11:46 PM
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Post: #1431
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I can't stand it when my mind feels super sharp and focused going into a work out but my body is lagging behind. Makes for a bad workout where I felt really weak. I think the cause is I didn't eat for around 16 hours before I worked out. I have no other explanation.
10-19-2015 10:04 AM
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Saweeep Offline
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Post: #1432
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(10-19-2015 10:04 AM)realologist Wrote:  I can't stand it when my mind feels super sharp and focused going into a work out but my body is lagging behind. Makes for a bad workout where I felt really weak. I think the cause is I didn't eat for around 16 hours before I worked out. I have no other explanation.

Well yeah.

Bet you won't do that again Big Grin
10-20-2015 02:50 AM
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Agastya Offline
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Post: #1433
RE: Lifter's Lounge
What are some good shoulder routines that you guys do? My current shoulder routine is just a 5x5 seated barbell shoulder press followed by a 3x15 of shrugs. I'm trying to get huge bubble shoulders so advice is welcome.
10-21-2015 06:23 PM
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Travesty Offline
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Post: #1434
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(10-18-2015 01:12 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  ...

Creatine and 2.5x bodyweight in grams of protein per day. 9-10 hours of sleep. Low stress.

Pretty much have to eat 3 huge egg/meat meals and 3 triple or quadruple scoop protein shakes a day.

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10-21-2015 06:33 PM
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Post: #1435
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(10-21-2015 06:33 PM)Travesty Wrote:  
(10-18-2015 01:12 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  ...

Creatine and 2.5x bodyweight in grams of protein per day. 9-10 hours of sleep. Low stress.

Pretty much have to eat 3 huge egg/meat meals and 3 triple or quadruple scoop protein shakes a day.

If I eat this way but don't go too much over maintenance, should still be able to make some gains I am assuming?

H1N1 wrote about it in this thread about how going in excess of maintenance isn't necessary. So I could see eating the way you mention but I would just go easier on the carbs even on lifting days. Which doesn't bother me so much, I have always wondered how many carbs a guy needs while lifting. Thanks!

This is H1N1's post. https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-51193...pid1134177

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10-21-2015 07:27 PM
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StrikeBack Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
I'm assuming that 2.5x bodyweight in grams of protein is talking about bodyweight in kg, else you'll be eating a lot of proteins... Hope you know gas control Big Grin

FYI, with both lifting and boxing currently, I'm on P/C/F = 200/340/80 every day, at about 72kg or 157lb bodyweight.

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10-21-2015 07:41 PM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(10-21-2015 07:41 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  I'm assuming that 2.5x bodyweight in grams of protein is talking about bodyweight in kg, else you'll be eating a lot of proteins... Hope you know gas control Big Grin

FYI, with both lifting and boxing currently, I'm on P/C/F = 200/340/80 every day, at about 72kg or 157lb bodyweight.

That many carbs are necessary, huh? I don't mean to ask that in a questioning/doubting voice. That is like 7 bagels. Granted bagels may not be the ideal carb - just trying to picture 340 grams of carbs. So it would be bad for the overall plan to try go a bit less on the carbs? Thanks.

About the protein 2.5 thing. I thought it was some super plan for gaining muscle!

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(This post was last modified: 10-21-2015 07:48 PM by samsamsam.)
10-21-2015 07:47 PM
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Travesty Offline
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Post: #1438
RE: Lifter's Lounge
2.5x bodyweight in lbs is right, it is a shit ton

I know this seems like anecdotal bullshit. I have a college buddy 6'4" used to be 300lbs. High school won state championship in shotput and throw sports. He played D3 offensive line football and juiced.

He introduced me to a forum that was the RVF equivalent of weightlifting and juicing. It is now gone because the owner died. Every guy on this forum was jacked most on juice. They all put down protein and oatmeal shakes like no tomorrow on top of normal protein lean meals to get enough in per day and carry around cans of tuna. And they all thought BB.com was for fags. Probably half the guys were powerlifters.

They said look if you aren't eating at least 2x and up to 2.5x your weight in lbs in grams of protein per day you aren't maxing out your natural genetics. You should do this before considering using juice, if you are truly dedicated. Try eating like this for two years straight if you don't get anymore lasting gains time to juice. Your lifting routine means shit all if you aren't packing down enough protein.

You might as well be a Kenyan marathon runner they'd probably say.

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10-21-2015 07:53 PM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
^^^Travesty, so it seems like maintenance level of calories won't work. I'll have to go above. Or Is it possible to stay near maintenance but just shift the mix to weight it more heavily towards to protein.

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10-21-2015 07:59 PM
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Travesty Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
Guys worry about getting fat eating that much. Look you'll probably unless you are superhuman only be able to eat protein with little left over for carbs eating that much even if you had the urge to.

We are talking about eating the equivalent of 50-70 eggs a day! If you are consuming that much protein and calories with no shit carbs (you won't be able to eat bad food you won't have enough room without throwing up) and you will be building muscle consistently you won't have to worry about getting fat.

Is it tough? Yeah you will feel like throwing up after your 13th quadruple scoop protein shake or egg white shake within 4 days haha. It isn't like a bulk where some guy eats a steak and salad for lunch then has pizza and beer for dinner because fuck it I'm bulking.

From these guys it seemed like the key was finding the protein you could consistently put down without feeling sick. Either eggs, egg whites, turkey steaks, ham, tuna cans, whey protein etc... everyone had their go to. I don't think a human can just eat chicken breast its too dry and eating that many in a day will make you vomit, even no one on that forum had it as their go to for the extra. Most would do it with protein shakes or tuna and hot sauce.

These guys also were big fans of very limited cardio. Like a brisk walk pace for 40 minutes on an incline treadmill. Sometimes new guys would say hey I play pick up basketball 4 times a week is that ok? They would say no, not if you want to keep gaining muscle easily as a natural. Quit the basketball, go eat a dozen eggs and a protein shake instead. They were serious.

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10-21-2015 08:05 PM
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Post: #1441
RE: Lifter's Lounge
^^ that forum was probably Iron Addicts. I started there when I first touched a barbell and the beginner Iron Addicts routine was the first one I did.

The 2x / 2.5x weight in lbs in grams of protein thing is a bit of bro science, I believe Layne Norton debunked that with a whole lot of studies. It should be high, but not that high. One problem with eating so much protein is that it's almost unavoidable to also eat plenty of fats, which means your muscle gainz will also make you rather fat too. Unless of course you are getting most of your proteins from supplements... guess who was the source of the original rule then. Wink

Having said that, it is a good point in general. People struggling with gains are always undereating proteins.

Quote:That many carbs are necessary, huh? I don't mean to ask that in a questioning/doubting voice. That is like 7 bagels. Granted bagels may not be the ideal carb - just trying to picture 340 grams of carbs. So it would be bad for the overall plan to try go a bit less on the carbs? Thanks.

I sometimes eat more, if I have a hard training day.

It's not that much, really.

For example, on Tuesday I ate 316g of carbs (a little bit short than usual), which consists of (only listing foods with carbs):

Lunch: 100g of cous cous, 200g of jasmine rice, 150g of mixed vegetables

Snack (afternoon and around training time): 175g of yoghurt, 6 small mandarin oranges, 1 small pink lady apple (100g), 2 kiwi fruits, 1 small banana, 500ml of fruit & veg juices

Dinner: salmon soup

Or the day before that (similar quantity of carbs):

Lunch: 100g of spaghetti noodles, 2 slices of bread

Snack: 1 large apple, 3x medium bananas

Dinner: 150g of spaghetti noodles

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10-21-2015 08:13 PM
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Travesty Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
^ Yes that's the name I forgot it.

Anytime I eat tons of protein like that and lift consistently and don't overtrain I gain. It is hell eating that much protein everyday though.

All I know is every huge guy I have ever met or been friends with 9/10 eats like a fucking horse and usually carries meals around to social gatherings, long car rides etc... I can't do that.

The other 1/10 just have amazing genetics and are usual D1/D2 college athletes without even having to try very hard.

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10-21-2015 08:17 PM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
With that much protein you would probably be shitting blood in no time unless you throw in fiber in every single meal, i.e lettuce 6 times a day.
10-21-2015 09:05 PM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(10-18-2015 01:12 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  This article talks about gaining 10 lbs of muscle in 4 weeks. Which seems pretty outrageous to me. Maybe if you have never lifted and no mention of how much fat you would gain also.

Or am I totally off and this is possible? I had a couple of months off of boxing and lifting. I did a little cardio and some body weight stuff but nothing heavy. I have a renewed interest in lifting and trying to really max out my time and effort.

Any thoughts on best way to quickly add muscle? I am not a beginner but never really had a structured program. I just try to hit the major muscle groups and try to go heavy. But I don't ever write anything down etc.

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts...-4-weeks-1

However, someone I respect greatly said the fastest way to look bigger is to tighten up. I gained a few pounds during my break. But tightening up seems to run contrary to gaining muscle.

Thanks.
What about this guy?

Nate Green went +20lbs in 28 days, -20lbs in 5 days, +17lbs in 1 day.

[Image: nate-phases.jpg]

He did a great, super detailed write up about it: Bigger, smaller, bigger.

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10-22-2015 12:36 PM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
@samsamsam: I had 2 boxing sessions yesterday (morning and evening) so ate more carbs than usual - 550g total. Burned them all by this morning. Wink

I know low carbs is all the rage at the moment, but life is a lot better, particularly for training, if you can train yourself to handle high carbs and get/stay lean with such a diet.

FYI, I went a few years on <100g carbs a day before this.

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10-22-2015 08:25 PM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
I was at ~220 lbs for most of 2012-2014. I was against losing weight and paying attention to my diet because "I didn't want to be small" and lose my size advantage playing basketball.

Truth is - I did not have an abundance mindset. I was scared that without a large frame I would be a shit basketball player. Guess what, the opposite is true.

I've been taking a break from playing basketball seriously. I don't think I've played a full court game in three months until today. I went out at a strong 195 lbs and still felt like a brick fucking wall (nothing got past me).

Every challenge I've faced in the weight room has improved me as a MAN and as a basketball player.

My finishing at the rim is more powerful because my hands have gripped so much iron. My defense is stronger because of hip mobility exercise. My handling is smoother because alpha male posture exercises have opened my chest up. My shot is more fluid because I'm using my legs more to make jump shots.

Do not be afraid of what will happen if you make extensive lifestyle or diet changes. Small guys or big guys. Your body will thank you.

Health is wealth!!

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10-22-2015 10:18 PM
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Post: #1447
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Samsamsam, just to clarify my friend, as I don't think my post you are referring to was as clear as I would have liked:

You are unlikely to gain muscle eating at maintenance. The point I was hoping to make was that the idea of 'bulking' is a daft one for many people, and that most of us should be aiming to eat a little bit over maintenance on training days to support a corresponding increase in the intensity of our activity. It is the notion that you have to always be eating vast quantities of food that I take issue with. If your body is a machine, then what you are trying to do is give it the right amount of everything it needs to perform optimally, without just pouring oil all over the whole fucking lot and calling it good. I think a lot of people lose sight of this when they start 'bulking', and think that it means they can sink a couple of extra burgers each day, because gains brah. My own experience has been that a far more sustainable approach is to eat a normal balanced diet, and on training days allow for the fact that greater stress has been placed on my body, and so give it a few hundred extra calories just to help it recover and make any adaptions it needs to make.


Here is an interesting recent post on the subject of protein requirements by Alex Viada:

Considering rice is about 8% protein as far as calorie content goes, and bread is around 14%, if you subsisted on nothing but "high carbohydrate" sources, and got in about 16 calories per pound of bodyweight total (assuming your diet is generally isocaloric), you'd get around 1.6 calories of protein per pound or 0.4g/lb of bodyweight. Which is around 0.9g/kg, or around the recommended amount of protein that the average person needs.

If you eat anything BUT bread and rice, you can assume you'll go over that number more easily, which means an athlete should aim for a few eggs on top of that. So unless you're subsisting on sugar and oil, chances are, you'd have to work to NOT get enough protein in your diet.

Which makes protein shakes probably the single most useless supplement on earth if you're not dieting. (If you're dieting, this changes dramatically).
10-23-2015 03:56 AM
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Post: #1448
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(10-23-2015 03:56 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Which makes protein shakes probably the single most useless supplement on earth if you're not dieting. (If you're dieting, this changes dramatically).

I agree with you...mostly.

The problem comes when you're really big and just can't face more food.

I find it a chore to eat my maintenance cleanly (about 3500 cals per day). When trying to increase in size it becomes unpleasant to be honest.

Assuming that protein shakes actually work (which is a topic in itself) they are very handy in these circumstances.
10-23-2015 04:03 AM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(10-23-2015 04:03 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  
(10-23-2015 03:56 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Which makes protein shakes probably the single most useless supplement on earth if you're not dieting. (If you're dieting, this changes dramatically).

I agree with you...mostly.

The problem comes when you're really big and just can't face more food.

I find it a chore to eat my maintenance cleanly (about 3500 cals per day). When trying to increase in size it becomes unpleasant to be honest.

Assuming that protein shakes actually work (which is a topic in itself) they are very handy in these circumstances.

That certainly seems reasonable. When I was eating 4 meals per day, and getting unnecessarily fatter because of it, I was probably eating about your maintenance each day (3500). Life was much worse for it, and trying to get in that many meals and calories didn't leave me much time for anything else between all the cooking and washing up.

I'm not big enough to need protein shakes, as I can comfortably build muscle on about 2600 calories per day, which I can happily eat in 2 or 3 meals. If I were 20 or 30 lbs heavier, like you, then I would certainly try to drink any additional calories I required.
10-23-2015 04:34 AM
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Hades Offline
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Post: #1450
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I drink shakes because they're cheaper, per gram of protein, than buying actual meat from the grocery store. You can have a shake for breakfast and run hot most of the day until you have to go home and eat something.

Also if I just so much as introduce daily carbs into my diet I bloat up into a pretty fat fucker inside of a few months and end up hungry all the time.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2015 01:35 AM by Hades.)
10-25-2015 01:32 AM
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