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Lifter's Lounge
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #4726
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I am a fan of a few movements, done with immaculate form, for a full range of motion.

I am persuaded that a training week structured roughly as below, and coupled with a healthy, nutritious diet full of good fats, and moderate protein is the best thing possible for hormone production, strength, physical health, good aesthetics, and longevity. I had already scaled back my training significantly from its peak, but this is the routine I've been following for a while now:

Day 1:

Squat - 3-5 x 8-12 pause squats, arse to grass.

If inclined:

2x20 hyper extensions
Grip work


Day 2 and 3, spaced at least 2 days apart:

Chinups - weighted or unweighted, 3-5 sets of 8-15
Overhead press - 3-4 sets of 8-12
Rows/dumbell deadlift (if DL, do first) - 3-4 sets of 10+
Dumbell bench, flat or incline - 3-5 sets of 10-20
2x10-20 hypers/weighted hypers

Then if inclined:

Rear delt machine flies - 2-3 sets of 15-20
Tricep extensions - 3 sets of 10+
Barbell curls - 3x20+

Grip work for high reps.

Throw in 1 day of high intensity conditioning work, and make an effort to walk a mile or two each day, and I think you have a tremendous program for long term health, fitness, and libido.

I would personally keep weights lighter for as long as possible. These days I'm of the view that adding weight to the bar is the last variable to adjust. Once you've really exacted everything you can out of a weight, that's when I would add weight to the bar.

To give a few examples:

I can walk into the gym and strict press 190lbs any day of the week, but I don't train with anything heavier than a 70lb dumbell, usually less.

I can squat 405lbs past parallel any day of the week, but I haven't trained with more than 245lbs in over a year.

Range of motion, focus on form and control of the weight, reducing rest periods, reducing training volume. These are the things that have kept me progressing over the last 12 months - particularly the last 6 or so since I received the advice I mentioned. Using comparatively light weights spares my joints a great deal of discomfort, especially as I am not built for moving especially large weights.

I do a few big movements that I think are key for strength and hormone production: Squat, Chin, OHP, Deadlifts

Everything else is structural integrity, muscular balance and aesthetics. These other movements help support the main lifts, build a little muscle, and keep my muscles and tendons healthy. I am a big fan of doing them for higher reps, and just pumping blood through the muscles and tendons. High rep barbell curls are a favourite for bicep health, and they still make your arms grow nicely.
03-05-2019 03:02 PM
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Post: #4727
RE: Lifter's Lounge
You train 3 times per week with day 2 and 3 being the same workout and day 1 being just squat and hypers/grip work? Is there a reason for it instead of lets say Wednesday being squat day?
03-05-2019 03:37 PM
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #4728
RE: Lifter's Lounge
That's correct.

The squat is pretty taxing on the whole body, done correctly. In my view It is best done fresh for this reason, and because it is the most important movement for your entire body.
03-05-2019 03:40 PM
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Post: #4729
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-05-2019 01:19 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  Leroy Colbert
Body Drag Curl 4x10
Close Grip Bench 4x10
Incline Curl 4x10
Overhead Triceps Extension 4x10
Weighted Pull-up 3x10
Incline Bench Press 3x10
Bent-Over Barbell Row 3x10
Decline Dumbbell Fly 3x10
Barbell Front Squat 3x10
Military Press 3x10
Hack Squat 3x10
Dumbbell Lateral Raise 3x10
Standing Calf Raise 3x15
Seated Calf Raise 3x15

After the linear progression becomes too hard, does it make sense to make this into heavy light medium program with each monday increasing lifts by just a little?

I find it hard to believe that Leroy Colbert and his contemporaries trained years and years by using only one routine and doing less or more per workout depending on "how they fell this day".
03-06-2019 02:41 PM
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Irenicus Online
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Post: #4730
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Quote:Reg Park
Squat 5x5
Front Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Deadlift 5x5
Behind The Neck Press 5x5
Barbell Curl 5x5
Skull Crushers 5x8
Standing Calf Raises 5x25


I have used this method of training.

In my humble opinion,it works when you...:



a.) ...are a total newbie, which does not lift that much weight

b.) ...are on gear - Reg was on tren, if I remember correctly.

c.) ...have a thick wallet. You'll need MASSIVE amounts of calories[/b], in order to keep up. Especially when you increase the amounts that you can lift. And what will grant you massive amount of calories? High quality food. And that costs a lot.

d.) ...have time - if you do all those (+ mandatory cardio), you'll spend a LOT of time in the gym. For a professional like Park, that was not a problem, for obvious reasons. Now...for a guy who has a full time 9-5 job...it will be an issue.



After a month and a half (or something like that), I switched to a heavily modded version of SL5x5 (which is, as you probably know, a variant of Park's program). Why? For 3 weeks, I could not complete a workout because I was too tired - good luck lifting a DL of 150kg AFTER you did both squats, bench press, and rows! If I was on TRT, Tren or something, I probably could.



Again, I am speaking from experience.

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(This post was last modified: 03-06-2019 04:02 PM by Irenicus.)
03-06-2019 03:56 PM
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Post: #4731
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Makes complete sense and I dare to say that even on gear, that routine is probably very hard to do.

I like full body routines and am always researching for methods, not necessarily to do try them, but out of curiosity and this one you quoted from me is so called Phase 3. Park had very different views on exercise selection and RM percentages than his collegues. I think for example what George Eiferman did (11 exercises, 3x10 each, much lower intensity) is much more sustainable than this one.

Btw, what program are you doing now?
03-06-2019 04:42 PM
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Fortis Away
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Post: #4732
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I would break that routine up into like 2-3 different days. Doing all those in a single day would be hard, but doing 1 set of full body exercises and then another later in the week and rotating them makes sense.

The thing guys need to remember is that we aren't Reg Park or those other guys. You have to know your body and experience level.

I MIGHT be able to do that routine 2-3 times a week but I'd need to nail my sleep and diet.

I'd rather just rotate 4 workouts over 8 days and give myself ample recovery time between. Gotta treat yourself well.




I had a grueling work out a few days ago:

this was all done DC (doggcrapp) style as pioneered by Dante Trudel.

heavy weighted dips
rack pulls
heavy front raises (using some English)
weighted Chins

The exercise selection looks thin but goddamn if you pick the right weights and go for broke you will be murdered. I failed to hit at least 8 on 2 exercises so I'm going to rotate them out for a bit and replace them.

You gotta keep meticulous records when you're training this way or you start pussyfooting.

Honestly, I don't see how I can truly sustain this style of heavy training without a dedicated trainer or gym partner.

I see why he says you should do this shit for 4-6 weeks and then do 2-3 weeks of maintenance work before hammering yourself again.

I had a shake and then did 30 minutes of low-intensity cardio afterward.

Lately I've been doing 30 minutes of cardio after EVERY session. I'm in the gym 1.5-2 hours a day but I feel great. My appetite is off the charts and I sleep like a brick.
03-06-2019 05:23 PM
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Post: #4733
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Chaosandpain Wrote:In Park’s words: ” I didn’t have a favorite workout routine. I have done every routine and every exercise in the book, but like most advanced trainers, I have found what exercises and what routines give me the best results. What is good for one man isn’t necessarily good for somebody else. My bodyweight fluctuated between 230 and 245 during those years.” [Kline]

Dude was just being interviewed for a muscle magazine of the day. No doubt he just threw that example out for anybody who wanted something to try.
03-06-2019 05:29 PM
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Post: #4734
RE: Lifter's Lounge
@Fortis

I heard about this Doggcrap (awful name for marketing btw) but I don't know what is the deal about. What is it that makes it so brutal and effective?

Btw, regarding workout above, maybe cut it in two days, like his A/B routine would be better, I agree with you there.
03-07-2019 01:57 AM
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General Stalin Offline
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Post: #4735
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-07-2019 01:57 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  What is it that makes it so brutal and effective?

High rep, rest pause sets. This workout is built around stimulating hypertrophy and keeping your muscles in a fatigued state. Fortis correct me if I'm wrong.
03-07-2019 03:07 PM
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Truth Teller Offline
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Post: #4736
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-06-2019 03:56 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  
Quote:Reg Park
Squat 5x5
Front Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Deadlift 5x5
Behind The Neck Press 5x5
Barbell Curl 5x5
Skull Crushers 5x8
Standing Calf Raises 5x25


I have used this method of training.
b.) ...are on gear - Reg was on tren, if I remember correctly

Two things: Park wasn't doing all of this 5x5. He had a 5x5 system where you did two warmup sets of 5, then 3x5 with a heavy weight. Second, he definitely wasn't on tren, as that didn't become commercially available until the 1970s. Most of Park's career happened before the widespread use of anabolic steroids- most of which started with power athletes (e.g. Olympic weightlifters).

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03-07-2019 03:16 PM
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Post: #4737
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I mentioned this on previous page; 5x5 name is actually a unintended diversion and a lot of people are surprised when they discover it is actually 3x5 (like SS) with 2 warmup sets before. The name 5x5 stick forever with it but it is definitely not the same as actual 5x5 set x rep system like SL is.

Truth Teller, could really a full natty run this routine? Maybe a heavy medium light system would be better instead of doing it all three days in a week with increasing weight each time.
03-07-2019 05:19 PM
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General Stalin Offline
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Post: #4738
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Honestly rep schemes mean nothing without a % or RPE tied to them. That Reg Park workout is 365 total reps in one workout, but how much effort? If it's 365 reps at RPE5 for each set then it's easy work. In a nut shell: 5 sets of 5 reps is only hard if its heavy ass weight (for you).
03-07-2019 07:53 PM
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Post: #4739
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-07-2019 05:19 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  I mentioned this on previous page; 5x5 name is actually a unintended diversion and a lot of people are surprised when they discover it is actually 3x5 (like SS) with 2 warmup sets before. The name 5x5 stick forever with it but it is definitely not the same as actual 5x5 set x rep system like SL is.

Truth Teller, could really a full natty run this routine? Maybe a heavy medium light system would be better instead of doing it all three days in a week with increasing weight each time.

If you're in your early-mid 20s, don't have a lot of life stress, etc., you can probably run it for a bit. I wouldn't start with it, though. There's a reason why it's the third phase of Park's training. You build up to a workout like that. It's also worth noting that Park had quite the diet: a lot of high-quality protein. On perhaps a much more interesting note, Park had a different program. It's probably better to look at this as a template for Park's training- a lot of heavy, compound lifts in low-moderate rep ranges.

Brooks Kubik (Dinosaur Training) did something similar for awhile and saw some good results, then he plateaued pretty hard once he started working longer hours/having more responsibilities/etc. To be fair about it, I don't see Park's program as all that different from Blaha's ICF program.

If you're interested in these sorts of programs, take a look at John McCallum's Keys to Progress. He's got a lot of great material in there. Most of it is from the early-mid 60s. Of course, you should read critically. The "Get Big Drink" sounds quite stomach churning.

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(This post was last modified: 03-08-2019 01:15 AM by Truth Teller.)
03-08-2019 01:14 AM
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Post: #4740
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-08-2019 01:14 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  If you're in your early-mid 20s, don't have a lot of life stress, etc., you can probably run it for a bit. I wouldn't start with it, though. There's a reason why it's the third phase of Park's training. You build up to a workout like that. It's also worth noting that Park had quite the diet: a lot of high-quality protein. On perhaps a much more interesting note, Park had a different program. It's probably better to look at this as a template for Park's training- a lot of heavy, compound lifts in low-moderate rep ranges.


Are you thinking of this one?

Option 3: (3x per week for advanced trainees who have great recovery abilities)

Monday
Hyperextensions  3x10 (one minute breaks)
Barbell military press:  5x5
Weighted pull-ups:  5x5
Barbell squat:  5x5
Romanian deadlift:  5x5
Barbell curl:  2x5
Close-grip bench press:  2x5
Calf raise:  3x12

Wednesday
Hyperextensions  3x10 (one minute breaks)
Bench press:  5x5
Barbell bent-over row:  5x5
Power clean:  5x3
Barbell deadlift:  5x5
Dumbbell curl:  2x5
Weighted dip:  2x5
Calf Raise:  3x12

Friday
Hyperextensions  3x10 (one minute breaks)
Dumbbell clean and press:  5x5
Weighted pull-up:  5x5
Barbell squat:  5x5
Dumbbell lunge:  5x5
Barbell curl:  2x5
Close-grip bench press:  2x5
Calf raise:  3x12

Take one-minute breaks in between each exercise and three-minute breaks in between each set.

Or you are thinking about this one?

Workout A
Squats 5x5
Pull Ups or Chin Ups 5x5
Bench Press or Dips 5x5
Forearm or Grip Work 2x10
Calf Exercise 2x15-20

Workout B
Front Squats 5x5
Barbell Rows 5x5
Standing Military Press 5x5
Deadlifts 3x5
Forearm or Grip Work 2x10
Calf Exercise 2x15-20

Quote:If you're interested in these sorts of programs, take a look at John McCallum's Keys to Progress. He's got a lot of great material in there. Most of it is from the early-mid 60s. Of course, you should read critically. The "Get Big Drink" sounds quite stomach churning.

Thanks, I will check it out.
03-08-2019 01:44 AM
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Post: #4741
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-08-2019 01:14 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  If you're interested in these sorts of programs, take a look at John McCallum's Keys to Progress. He's got a lot of great material in there. Most of it is from the early-mid 60s. Of course, you should read critically. The "Get Big Drink" sounds quite stomach churning.

I checked it out and this is exactly stuff I like, brutal, old school workouts. Just 3 days in gym, but you give everything. Found some very interesting workouts there which might or might not be modified to run in my stage (a guy who has more and more trouble with linear progression).

Interesting link

Regarding that drink, such stuff was almost a staple in old school circles. This is basically a most natural mass gainer. Colbert said numerous times that him and his friend would "destroy" gym with their farting because of similar drinks and that was until one older lifter introduced to them pineapple. Pineapple eliminated brutal farting. God that man was so refreshingly honest and funny while giving good advice. RIP Leroy.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2019 07:30 AM by sterling_archer.)
03-08-2019 07:29 AM
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Post: #4742
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-08-2019 07:29 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  I checked it out and this is exactly stuff I like, brutal, old school workouts. Just 3 days in gym, but you give everything. Found some very interesting workouts there which might or might not be modified to run in my stage (a guy who has more and more trouble with linear progression).

Interesting link

Regarding that drink, such stuff was almost a staple in old school circles. This is basically a most natural mass gainer. Colbert said numerous times that him and his friend would "destroy" gym with their farting because of similar drinks and that was until one older lifter introduced to them pineapple. Pineapple eliminated brutal farting. God that man was so refreshingly honest and funny while giving good advice. RIP Leroy.

You definitely need the Keys to Progress book for the McCallum programs. They're not 4x8 with straight weight or anything like it. It's often something like 2x8 warmups, 1x8 all out, then a backoff for 8-10 reps.

The Park program has three phases: you start with something like this:

Squat: 5x5 (3x5 worksets)
Bench: 5x5 (3x5 worksets)
DL: 5x5 (3x5) worksets

You increase the volume from there.

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(This post was last modified: 03-09-2019 12:38 AM by Truth Teller.)
03-09-2019 12:38 AM
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Post: #4743
RE: Lifter's Lounge
At the moment I have two full body workouts and alternate between them nearly every day. I take a day off when I feel I'm overreaching.

Workout A:

Chin up 5 x 6 (once achieved I add weigth and build from 5 x 3 to 5 x 6 and then add weigth again ecc.)
Overhead press 5 x 3
Squat 3 x 5
Triceps extention 3x6
Strict biceps curl 3x6


Workout B

Bench press 5x3
Deadlif 3x3
Pendlay row 5x5
Triceps extention 3x6
Strict biceps curl 3x6

So as you can see, I'm not a fan of high reps or high exercise selection.
Some of you might think that these workouts have low volume, but bear in mind that I do some sort of pressing, pulling, leg and arm work nearly every day and the cumulative work done over a week or month/s is massive. It will put slabs of muscle on your body. This is a very high volume routine and requires that you are a) in a caloric surplus and b) having good recovery capacities.

Also you have to be careful not to push yourself too hard in the gym if you want to do this high frequency routine. Checking your ego out of the door is essential.
These 3 rep sets are done with the weights you could move 5 or 6 time, and the focus is to accumulate a high number of fast and perfectly executed, relatively hard reps throughout the week.
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2019 07:33 PM by Zagor.)
03-09-2019 07:28 PM
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Post: #4744
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Zagor, that is very similar to routine I will start running tomorrow. I decided to go to basics, heavy work (mainly reps of 5), not too many exercises, A/B progression because it was that transformed my body the most in the previous months. I will be using Reg Park beginner routine, as it is very similar to two programs I have used up until 2 months ago.

Workout A
Squats 5x5
Pull Ups or Chin Ups 5x5
Bench Press or Dips 5x5
Forearm or Grip Work 2x10
Calf Exercise 2x15-20

Workout B
Front Squats 5x5
Barbell Rows 5x5
Standing Military Press 5x5
Deadlifts 3x5
Forearm or Grip Work 2x10
03-10-2019 02:04 AM
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Post: #4745
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I've been lifting big ass concrete bags for workouts. I haven't been to a proper gym in ages.

Anyone else have experience lifting large construction site items or tips?

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03-10-2019 03:26 AM
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Post: #4746
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(03-07-2019 07:53 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Honestly rep schemes mean nothing without a % or RPE tied to them. That Reg Park workout is 365 total reps in one workout, but how much effort? If it's 365 reps at RPE5 for each set then it's easy work. In a nut shell: 5 sets of 5 reps is only hard if its heavy ass weight (for you).

This is a very important point that is overlooked and misunderstood by many posters here. The intensity (RPE/%) is key, especially if you're doing a lot of volume. Volume (total number of reps at an intensity high enough) is the most important factor to drive hypertrophy and strength gains. However if the intensity is too high, the lifter will accumulate too much fatigue and will not be able to recover; the risk of injury will also become more important. If it's too low, there are not enough muscle recruitment to drive gains.

The problem with a program like stronglifts and starting strength is that at some point every set becomes RPE10 and you even fail reps, which has a deep effect on fatigue and then people start to feel burned out and hurt themselves. At that point you should move on to a program with more volume and less intensity.

You should not go all out when working out. Especially on compound exercises.

Those who are saying that if you're in your twenties you can work out more etc. than in your thirties, this is not true, you are nocebo-ing yourself. If you have been strength training intelligently for a long time, you'll actually have a higher work capacity in your thirties than in your twenties.

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(This post was last modified: 03-10-2019 02:16 PM by Lermontov.)
03-10-2019 02:14 PM
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Post: #4747
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Everything is cyclical.

For a few months now I've been burning time by stuffing down big meals pre-workout as I had a stretch of weak and fatigued lifts. This is such a time sink as you have to wait 2-3 hours for the food to cycle and you may get lethargic if you over do it in the amount of carbs. You also have to be mindful of fat intake and the type of protein that can take very long to digest. All unnecessary.

Now I just eat 5 medjool dates and within 20-30 mins I got the carbs I need. I've listed about dates as nature's most abundant energy source (that is quick digesting) before but I got away from it after a few months of dried nasty pitted dates (get the untouched medjool with the pits as they taste much better). I'm blasting through 2 hour workouts now with just some little dates in me. It's great as I feel light and can take in more water if I need too. Also, if and when I do feel gassed then I just pop one or two more dates in the gym and my energy levels are back up.

Dates are also my post workout carb source as I just eat two post workout before a shake.

Unless I can have pasta (I'll never drop pasta, I've had my best workouts after some spaghetti and meatballs sauce, my body just takes this carb source very well for activity) I'm just sticking with dates pre-workout.

Also, if you stuff the medjool date with peanut butter it is a good snack with good fats. I learned that from a girl I was piping after she noticed I needed an energy boost post bang.

Dates are a super food, for their weight very few natural food sources in nature pack as much energy.
03-18-2019 10:12 AM
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Post: #4748
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I've tried dates after reading about them here. Dates are legit, great fast absorbing energy source.
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