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Are Australian girls ugly?
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Biologist Offline
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Post: #151
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
(08-23-2014 02:26 AM)tonipepperoni Wrote:  
(08-22-2014 06:05 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  Toni, you appear to keep going back to a point I have already made. Eastern European women are superior to Australian women. I have made this quite clear (numerous times) yet somehow we keep coming back to this topic. Reading comprehension fail?

There are however a small portion of women on par with an Eastern European 9. To say otherwise is to have only a basic understanding of the population; which of course is only logical if you haven't grown up in the country (Another reason why arguing otherwise is less than intelligent).

Re knowledge of the fine arts: Never have I heard such nonsense in my life. This is pseudo elitism. Irrespective of the knowledge any women has in the fine arts, it will be akin to small talk. Outside someone who has studied a specific topic, what do you expect to gain from the conversation?

Personally that is an extremely blue pill rational. The notion that surface level conversation has any relevance what so ever. Personally I would prefer to discuss the weather.

To be perfectly blunt re your argument, perhaps you are trolling - But do you honestly believe you can debate personal preference & find it particularly shocking that one would prefer to live in Australia over the Ukraine?

To brush off environmental factors is to make any argument moot. Especially considering the fact that I have explicitly said women are not my number 1 priority.

In any case there are nearly 40,000 Ukrainian Australian migrants alone. Surely they have not lived in the Ukraine to reach this decision.

BTW; I'm happy to continue the debate, but I wonder, are you trying to convince me or yourself? Especially considering the argument is over personal preference. Can one really ever think there is a right answer? To me that is the height of irrationality.

While I make compromises with the reality I am in wherever I go, you choose to look at things with rose coloured lenses.

I even mentioned to you that while I like Scandanvian girls, their intelligence and femininity can't be matched with Eastern European girls. I even know men in stockholm who come from a specific blood line, aristocrats, spend ridiculous amounts of cash in stureplan, spend 2 months of the year in the Riviera...and tour NY, Milan, Paris regularly. They make mince of any life afforded to an Australian kid who went to an exclusive private boys school and remains insular in some inbred clique.

With that said, while these sweds have access to extremely attractive women, the girls they date are not as feminine as what they could potentially get in the FSU or Russia. It would be silly to state otherwise.

In reality, there's always a compromise. Different environments breed different benefits.

EE girls don't name drop philosophers and artists. It comes implicitly in conversation. The fact that you haven't realised this disparity is telling, because it is making me realise that you had a bitter experience there, and went crawling back to your 'mates' + 'family' + 'creature comforts'.

I'll give you a specific example. Yesterday, a girl asked me if I wanted to watch a 'Streetcar named desire'. In Australia a girl would ask me to watch Transformers.

The distinction here is that one girl isn't affected by an entertainment freemarket whose primary goal is to have complete control over the chemical composition of the consumer brain and deliver dopamine infused entertainment.

Another example, would be that post-sex, she would play beautiful songs from her own playlist. An Australian girl would play Kee$ha. Again, another dopamine infused artist. This girl played a blues song from the 70s which I never heard of.

An Australian girl has an uphill battle to commit to if she wants to have similar intelligence levels and tastes as an Eastern European girl.

- If she's a 9 then she has to resist the temptation of joining instagram and getting 1,000,000 followers.
- If she's a 9 she has to resist the temptation of having braindead 9/10 friends.
- She will have to scour book libraries for Russian and French authors, because Australian consumers seem to be more interested in Dan Brown.
- She has to resist the world of reality tv, game shows, and so-called lifestyle channels featuring a homosexual host.
- She will probably have to delete facebook, because eventually 1000 thirsty followers will accrue and she will begin to get high off her likes.
- She may force herself to stay home in doors, or live on the country estate, where she doesn't get approached 10 times a day.
- She will have to block all brain-dead news media that's trying to paint Putin as the next Adolf Hitler

All of this is impossible. Studying difficult texts is significantly less chemically rewarding (at least in the first 30 minutes) than any of those things in the above. And when you're living in a holographic universe like Australia where you're taught to consume to validate your existence, I don't see it happening.

In an impoverished ex-soviet state that has a juvenile and naive form of capitalism, which has a love for history, arts, knowledge...the occurrence is a lot easier, simplified etc.

As Australian men, we can become deeply philosophical creatures because reality continuously rejects us. Australia is a tough environment for sex, and sex acts as a type of philosophical inquisition. We are always asking the question 'Why?'. We're always wondering about self-help and personal improvement, and trying to understand how women think. In many ways, we have to go through a journey of obtaining knowledge.

At most, an Australian girl is only concerned momentarily but without any objective reasoning skills about 'why brad didn't text'. After that she's either shifting between the past memories of cock carousel roller coasters or living purely in the present with ZERO or LITTLE philosophical inquisition in her own life.

There is no cold winter months or bouts of loneliness where she has to embark on a journey of learning about who she truly is. Australian girls are completely devoid of a Nietszchean spiritual voyage.

I can't see anyone in this thread contesting the notion that EE girls, in general, are vastly superior to Australian girls. Just about everyone on RVF knows that Australian girls are rubbish in comparison to EE girls.

However, when you keep mentioning this point over and over again, it makes it sound like that you're trying very hard to justify your expatriation to Europe from Australia.

Also, whether or not the girls know about Nietzsche or Russian literature is really within the realm of personal preference. Consider East Asian or South-East Asian women - they are widely considered vastly superior to their Western counterparts in terms of relationship, wife and mother material, but it would be hard to find one who was well versed in philosophy or literature.

Otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree on your point about living in Australia with a wife (even if you marry her overseas). The risk of her behaviour deteriorating and cheating in you is just too high.
08-23-2014 06:48 AM
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Post: #152
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
For full disclosure purposes: I'm not Australian, I'm European - so my defense of Oz is not from patriotism. I did however spend a couple of years down there so I'm not basing my opinion on a '2 week trip'.

Singapore and Dubai are totalitarian city states, somewhat different to a liberal democracy like Australia in living standards. I think you're obsessing slightly on the rat race aspect of life in Australia, which in my experience is just as prevalent amongst middle class males anywhere else in the developed world. I agree that this 9-5 weekend warrior lifestyle is a complete waste of a life mind you, I just think blaming Australia for it doesn't really work when its just as common elsewhere.

I think if your wife cheats on you you're to blame, not the country you're in. Anyone who has spent enough years gaming should know women well enough to both pick a high quality wife, and stay alpha enough in the relationship to not have her cheat. Obviously there are rare exceptions, but you can't rule out moving to places because you're afraid the local men will be more masculine than you and steal your woman - that's beta as hell.

Out of interest, to use an illustrative example, where in the world would you rather live as a 30 year old white collar worker already in a relationship, if not Sydney?
08-23-2014 07:13 AM
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Post: #153
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
(08-23-2014 06:48 AM)Biologist Wrote:  
(08-23-2014 02:26 AM)tonipepperoni Wrote:  
(08-22-2014 06:05 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  Toni, you appear to keep going back to a point I have already made. Eastern European women are superior to Australian women. I have made this quite clear (numerous times) yet somehow we keep coming back to this topic. Reading comprehension fail?

There are however a small portion of women on par with an Eastern European 9. To say otherwise is to have only a basic understanding of the population; which of course is only logical if you haven't grown up in the country (Another reason why arguing otherwise is less than intelligent).

Re knowledge of the fine arts: Never have I heard such nonsense in my life. This is pseudo elitism. Irrespective of the knowledge any women has in the fine arts, it will be akin to small talk. Outside someone who has studied a specific topic, what do you expect to gain from the conversation?

Personally that is an extremely blue pill rational. The notion that surface level conversation has any relevance what so ever. Personally I would prefer to discuss the weather.

To be perfectly blunt re your argument, perhaps you are trolling - But do you honestly believe you can debate personal preference & find it particularly shocking that one would prefer to live in Australia over the Ukraine?

To brush off environmental factors is to make any argument moot. Especially considering the fact that I have explicitly said women are not my number 1 priority.

In any case there are nearly 40,000 Ukrainian Australian migrants alone. Surely they have not lived in the Ukraine to reach this decision.

BTW; I'm happy to continue the debate, but I wonder, are you trying to convince me or yourself? Especially considering the argument is over personal preference. Can one really ever think there is a right answer? To me that is the height of irrationality.

While I make compromises with the reality I am in wherever I go, you choose to look at things with rose coloured lenses.

I even mentioned to you that while I like Scandanvian girls, their intelligence and femininity can't be matched with Eastern European girls. I even know men in stockholm who come from a specific blood line, aristocrats, spend ridiculous amounts of cash in stureplan, spend 2 months of the year in the Riviera...and tour NY, Milan, Paris regularly. They make mince of any life afforded to an Australian kid who went to an exclusive private boys school and remains insular in some inbred clique.

With that said, while these sweds have access to extremely attractive women, the girls they date are not as feminine as what they could potentially get in the FSU or Russia. It would be silly to state otherwise.

In reality, there's always a compromise. Different environments breed different benefits.

EE girls don't name drop philosophers and artists. It comes implicitly in conversation. The fact that you haven't realised this disparity is telling, because it is making me realise that you had a bitter experience there, and went crawling back to your 'mates' + 'family' + 'creature comforts'.

I'll give you a specific example. Yesterday, a girl asked me if I wanted to watch a 'Streetcar named desire'. In Australia a girl would ask me to watch Transformers.

The distinction here is that one girl isn't affected by an entertainment freemarket whose primary goal is to have complete control over the chemical composition of the consumer brain and deliver dopamine infused entertainment.

Another example, would be that post-sex, she would play beautiful songs from her own playlist. An Australian girl would play Kee$ha. Again, another dopamine infused artist. This girl played a blues song from the 70s which I never heard of.

An Australian girl has an uphill battle to commit to if she wants to have similar intelligence levels and tastes as an Eastern European girl.

- If she's a 9 then she has to resist the temptation of joining instagram and getting 1,000,000 followers.
- If she's a 9 she has to resist the temptation of having braindead 9/10 friends.
- She will have to scour book libraries for Russian and French authors, because Australian consumers seem to be more interested in Dan Brown.
- She has to resist the world of reality tv, game shows, and so-called lifestyle channels featuring a homosexual host.
- She will probably have to delete facebook, because eventually 1000 thirsty followers will accrue and she will begin to get high off her likes.
- She may force herself to stay home in doors, or live on the country estate, where she doesn't get approached 10 times a day.
- She will have to block all brain-dead news media that's trying to paint Putin as the next Adolf Hitler

All of this is impossible. Studying difficult texts is significantly less chemically rewarding (at least in the first 30 minutes) than any of those things in the above. And when you're living in a holographic universe like Australia where you're taught to consume to validate your existence, I don't see it happening.

In an impoverished ex-soviet state that has a juvenile and naive form of capitalism, which has a love for history, arts, knowledge...the occurrence is a lot easier, simplified etc.

As Australian men, we can become deeply philosophical creatures because reality continuously rejects us. Australia is a tough environment for sex, and sex acts as a type of philosophical inquisition. We are always asking the question 'Why?'. We're always wondering about self-help and personal improvement, and trying to understand how women think. In many ways, we have to go through a journey of obtaining knowledge.

At most, an Australian girl is only concerned momentarily but without any objective reasoning skills about 'why brad didn't text'. After that she's either shifting between the past memories of cock carousel roller coasters or living purely in the present with ZERO or LITTLE philosophical inquisition in her own life.

There is no cold winter months or bouts of loneliness where she has to embark on a journey of learning about who she truly is. Australian girls are completely devoid of a Nietszchean spiritual voyage.

I can't see anyone in this thread contesting the notion that EE girls, in general, are vastly superior to Australian girls. Just about everyone on RVF knows that Australian girls are rubbish in comparison to EE girls.

However, when you keep mentioning this point over and over again, it makes it sound like that you're trying very hard to justify your expatriation to Europe from Australia.

Also, whether or not the girls know about Nietzsche or Russian literature is really within the realm of personal preference. Consider East Asian or South-East Asian women - they are widely considered vastly superior to their Western counterparts in terms of relationship, wife and mother material, but it would be hard to find one who was well versed in philosophy or literature.

Otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree on your point about living in Australia with a wife (even if you marry her overseas). The risk of her behaviour deteriorating and cheating in you is just too high.


I'm specifically trying to address Rush87's points here:
" My lifestyle, social circle & background gives me access to this niche market. "


He believes with his social circle, clique, RSD game, lifestyle and probably looks (who knows) can score feminine and intelligent women that are on par with Ukraine.

The logic is this: Sure, Australia is a shithole for girls, but I have enough game to pull the small percentage of girls who are as good as Ukranian girls, so I have the best of both worlds.

The logic here is an absolute fail on multiple angles because while everyone knows that EE girls are superior to Australian girls, not even being a footballer will afford you the perks of the same type of women in the FSU. That's a compromise that every man has to acknowledge while being there. I do acknowledge that someone in the top 1% of Australian men wont have too much difficulty in meeting attractive girls, but this doesn't mean they're reaching their potential, just like such a man wouldn't be reaching his potential in DC or in Rwanda. There's a compromise. This is something that Rush87 doesn't appear to believe in because he can't see any noticeable difference in the top 1% of Australian women and the top 1% of Ukranian women.

What I have also learned from his post is that he is deeply ingrained (or was) in the OIL & Gas industry as explained by his time in a Norwegian Rig. That's the rough equivalence of saying you've lived in the States (And know what American lifestyle is like) while working in an Alaskan oil rig and doing short trips to NY. From what we've learned from him, I am pretty sure he hasn't lived the facet of Scandinavian life which I'm explicitly referring to. Working in the Oil & Gas industry makes a dunce out of most men and makes them somewhat used to being in a sexless atmosphere, doing off sight drilling in introverted locations.

With RE: my intellectual points. You don't have to be an actual reader of those things to actually appreciate the women. The main benefit is that they have substantial ability to absorb information better and listen to you, while retaining a feminine aura, and not be law-cunt academic. And you can talk about things without having to be reduced to Clown-Game.

I've spent significant time in Thailand and Bali.. and other parts of SEA.. and I can tell you that the connection you will have with a european girl is to be distinguished to a FOB asian who is merely a sex pet who does sexual favours for you provided you give her security. They lack depth, dimensionality and you can't really talk to them about many things.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 07:42 AM by tonipepperoni.)
08-23-2014 07:14 AM
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Post: #154
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
(08-23-2014 07:13 AM)zatara Wrote:  For full disclosure purposes: I'm not Australian, I'm European - so my defense of Oz is not from patriotism. I did however spend a couple of years down there so I'm not basing my opinion on a '2 week trip'.

Singapore and Dubai are totalitarian city states, somewhat different to a liberal democracy like Australia in living standards. I think you're obsessing slightly on the rat race aspect of life in Australia, which in my experience is just as prevalent amongst middle class males anywhere else in the developed world. I agree that this 9-5 weekend warrior lifestyle is a complete waste of a life mind you, I just think blaming Australia for it doesn't really work when its just as common elsewhere.

I think if your wife cheats on you you're to blame, not the country you're in. Anyone who has spent enough years gaming should know women well enough to both pick a high quality wife, and stay alpha enough in the relationship to not have her cheat. Obviously there are rare exceptions, but you can't rule out moving to places because you're afraid the local men will be more masculine than you and steal your woman - that's beta as hell.

Out of interest, to use an illustrative example, where in the world would you rather live as a 30 year old white collar worker already in a relationship, if not Sydney?

You criticise ratrace but then you say Australia is among the best of countries because of the salary it offers?

Dubai and Singapore aren't Totalitarian states. I don't know how you defined Totalitarian states. They're just more repressive and regulated. But Australia is still fairly close in that respect -- most things (if not all) are closed at 9 or 10 pm, Alcohol shops are closed at 10.30pm, nightclub venues lock their doors at 2.

I would probably put London in the same boat, but it's continental influence is significantly different.

Before I go any further, are you British?
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 07:24 AM by tonipepperoni.)
08-23-2014 07:19 AM
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Post: #155
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
(08-23-2014 07:19 AM)tonipepperoni Wrote:  
(08-23-2014 07:13 AM)zatara Wrote:  For full disclosure purposes: I'm not Australian, I'm European - so my defense of Oz is not from patriotism. I did however spend a couple of years down there so I'm not basing my opinion on a '2 week trip'.

Singapore and Dubai are totalitarian city states, somewhat different to a liberal democracy like Australia in living standards. I think you're obsessing slightly on the rat race aspect of life in Australia, which in my experience is just as prevalent amongst middle class males anywhere else in the developed world. I agree that this 9-5 weekend warrior lifestyle is a complete waste of a life mind you, I just think blaming Australia for it doesn't really work when its just as common elsewhere.

I think if your wife cheats on you you're to blame, not the country you're in. Anyone who has spent enough years gaming should know women well enough to both pick a high quality wife, and stay alpha enough in the relationship to not have her cheat. Obviously there are rare exceptions, but you can't rule out moving to places because you're afraid the local men will be more masculine than you and steal your woman - that's beta as hell.

Out of interest, to use an illustrative example, where in the world would you rather live as a 30 year old white collar worker already in a relationship, if not Sydney?

You criticise ratrace but then you say the Australian is among the best of countries because of the salary it offers?

Dubai and Singapore aren't Totalitarian states. I don't know how you defined Totalitarian states. They're just more repressive and regulated. But Australia is still fairly close in that respect -- most things (if not all) are closed at 9 or 10 pm, Alcohol shops are closed at 10.30pm, nightclub venues lock their doors at 2.

I would probably put London in the same boat, but it's continental influence is significantly different.

Before I go any further, are you British?

Absolutely. You don't have to be in the ratrace to take advantage of high salaries. A selfemployed person can take full advantage of the far higher average wages without having their life revolve around their labour being exploited by middle/upper management. Besides that, the majority of people will sadly end up trapped in a ratrace anyway. Better to end up in one of the more lucrative ratraces eh?

Uh, (somewhat lamely) to quote a dictionary definition of a totalitarian state: "A totalitarian state is a concept used by some political scientists in which the state holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible." I don't know how you couldn't apply that to Singapore and Dubai. I've spent time in both of these places and your life is far more regulated than it is in the US, Oz, the EU etc. Plus, yknow, the whole massive issue of the lack of competitive, free and fair elections. Not being able to buy booze at 11pm isn't really comparable with not being able to have a meaningful say in the political process in the grand scheme of life.

I grew up in Ireland and France, but am currently living in London. Why? How I define my nationality generally depends on the girl I'm chatting up at that moment.

You seem to have ignored my request you nominate a city that would be better for a 30 year old professional in a relationship than Sydney. Care to engage? It's rather easier to attack problems with somewhere than it is to hold a comparative example up for scrutiny, which is why I asked.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 07:41 AM by zatara.)
08-23-2014 07:40 AM
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Post: #156
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
(08-23-2014 07:40 AM)zatara Wrote:  
(08-23-2014 07:19 AM)tonipepperoni Wrote:  
(08-23-2014 07:13 AM)zatara Wrote:  For full disclosure purposes: I'm not Australian, I'm European - so my defense of Oz is not from patriotism. I did however spend a couple of years down there so I'm not basing my opinion on a '2 week trip'.

Singapore and Dubai are totalitarian city states, somewhat different to a liberal democracy like Australia in living standards. I think you're obsessing slightly on the rat race aspect of life in Australia, which in my experience is just as prevalent amongst middle class males anywhere else in the developed world. I agree that this 9-5 weekend warrior lifestyle is a complete waste of a life mind you, I just think blaming Australia for it doesn't really work when its just as common elsewhere.

I think if your wife cheats on you you're to blame, not the country you're in. Anyone who has spent enough years gaming should know women well enough to both pick a high quality wife, and stay alpha enough in the relationship to not have her cheat. Obviously there are rare exceptions, but you can't rule out moving to places because you're afraid the local men will be more masculine than you and steal your woman - that's beta as hell.

Out of interest, to use an illustrative example, where in the world would you rather live as a 30 year old white collar worker already in a relationship, if not Sydney?

You criticise ratrace but then you say the Australian is among the best of countries because of the salary it offers?

Dubai and Singapore aren't Totalitarian states. I don't know how you defined Totalitarian states. They're just more repressive and regulated. But Australia is still fairly close in that respect -- most things (if not all) are closed at 9 or 10 pm, Alcohol shops are closed at 10.30pm, nightclub venues lock their doors at 2.

I would probably put London in the same boat, but it's continental influence is significantly different.

Before I go any further, are you British?

Absolutely. You don't have to be in the ratrace to take advantage of high salaries. A selfemployed person can take full advantage of the far higher average wages without having their life revolve around their labour being exploited by middle/upper management. Besides that, the majority of people will sadly end up trapped in a ratrace anyway. Better to end up in one of the more lucrative ratraces eh?

Uh, (somewhat lamely) to quote a dictionary definition of a totalitarian state: "A totalitarian state is a concept used by some political scientists in which the state holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible." I don't know how you couldn't apply that to Singapore and Dubai. I've spent time in both of these places and your life is far more regulated than it is in the US, Oz, the EU etc. Plus, yknow, the whole massive issue of the lack of competitive, free and fair elections. Not being able to buy booze at 11pm isn't really comparable with not being able to have a meaningful say in the political process in the grand scheme of life.

I grew up in Ireland and France, but am currently living in London. Why? How I define my nationality generally depends on the girl I'm chatting up at that moment.

You seem to have ignored my request you nominate a city that would be better for a 30 year old professional in a relationship than Sydney. Care to engage? It's rather easier to attack problems with somewhere than it is to hold a comparative example up for scrutiny, which is why I asked.

Zizek once famously quoted that:
Quote:In a country such as China the limitations of freedom are clear to everyone, with no illusions about it. In the US, however, formal freedoms are guaranteed, so that most individuals experience their lives as free and are not even aware of the extent to which they are controlled by state mechanisms. Whistleblowers do something much more important than stating the obvious by way of denouncing the openly oppressive regimes: they render public the unfreedom that underlies the very situation in which we experience ourselves as free.

Freedom is something so difficult to define. I mean seriously can you define it? German philosophers have been trying for ages. What we know about Australia and the anglosphere is that while they are vast constructions of crystal castles, progressive architechture, it takes a movie like Fight Club, whistleblowers, and economic recessions for people to realise the master behind the puppet.

Dubai and Singapore and Australia operate as a hyperreality. Jean Baudrillard defines it here:
Quote:Both Umberto Eco and Jean Baudrillard refer to Disneyland as an example of hyperreality. Eco believes that Disneyland with its settings such as Main Street and full sized houses has been created to look "absolutely realistic," taking visitors' imagination to a "fantastic past."[15] This false reality creates an illusion and makes it more desirable for people to buy this reality. Disneyland works in a system that enables visitors to feel that technology and the created atmosphere "can give us more reality than nature can."[16] The fake animals such as alligators and hippopotamuses are all available to people in Disneyland and for everyone to see. The "fake nature" of Disneyland satisfies our imagination and daydream fantasies in real life. Therefore, they seem more admirable and attractive. When entering Disneyland, consumers form into lines to gain access to each attraction. Then they are ordered by people with special uniforms to follow the rules, such as where to stand or where to sit. If the consumer follows each rule correctly, they can enjoy "the real thing" and see things that are not available to them outside of Disneyland's doors.[17]

In his work Simulacra and Simulation, Baudrillard argues the "imaginary world" of Disneyland magnetizes people inside and has been presented as "imaginary" to make people believe that all its surroundings are "real". But he believes that the Los Angeles area is not real; thus it is hyperreal. Disneyland is a set of apparatuses which tries to bring imagination and fiction to what is called "real". This concerns the American values and way of life in a sense and "concealing the fact that the real is no longer real, and thus of saving the reality principle."[18]

"The Disneyland imaginary is neither true or false: it is a deterrence machine set up in order to rejuvenate in reverse the fiction of the real. Whence the debility, the infantile degeneration of this imaginary. It's meant to be an infantile world, in order to make us believe that the adults are elsewhere, in the "real" world, and to conceal the fact that real childishness is everywhere, particularly among those adults who go there to act the child in order to foster illusion of their real childishness."[19]

This is how all 3 countries function.

They offer sights: 7 star hotel, marina bay sands, opera house. They give you all these little perks of rat race life as seen in the tv-series Suits, and then they run faulty propaganda on tv 'you're free, you are in the lucky country', then they game you into getting a loan, then RSD Alexander tells you how you can meet girls by day gaming them and going to the right bar, and before you know it you're nothing but a mental masturbation with a mediocre Stacy, a 600k mortgage and a pending divorce.

The only one successful at game is the country itself: Australia.

Most capitalistic countries operate in a Master-Slave format, but this doesn't mean they're all the same. In many ways on paper, Australia seems like it has all the right empirical measurements to be the best in the world. But the reality isn't anywhere near close to the truth: What makes a man happy isn't necessarily how much money he has in the bank, or whether he has access to 25 degrees weather all the time or whether he has job security. We have to stop thinking like this. They are facets, but they aren't the entire picture.

I explained what makes me happy a few pages earlier.

In my opinion it depends on your industry. If you're in Investment Banking and Hedgefunds, as a man, you're much better off in NY & London. And if I was in a serious relationship I'd still prefer to be in a place like NY.

And re: bringing a european girl over.. in my younger days, my best friend and I hosted promoted parties for exchange students. Almost all of the european girls had significantly altered their body shape and personalities, while the males became more attractive over time: the guys began going to the gym, more gamey, whereas the girls ate kebabs and fell over drunk like British girls.

Even if you're a young Brad Pitt, you're setting yourself for disaster if you bring an EE goddess over.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 08:11 AM by tonipepperoni.)
08-23-2014 08:10 AM
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Post: #157
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
The contrast between treatment of alcohol in Melbourne vs Berlin is astounding. One city taxes even micro breweries so they can't offer cheap beer, the other is awash with good quality beer for a Euro or two.

One sees mass fines imposed for drinking outside , the other is relaxed.

One tries to impose lockouts on bars and venues, the other has 24/7 parties.

One serves beer in a pot glass, the other doesn't know what a pot glass is (a joint maybe?)

One allows the sale of alcohol only in supermarket offshoot liquor stores, which close at 10.30, the other sells alcohol everywhere at all times in dona shops, newsagents on train platforms, local corner stores, etc

One has a drinking kulture of violence, the other hedonism, good fun

One tried to shut down live music venues like The Tote to appease lame property speculators new to the area, the other would tell those people to fuck off

One has bouncers that simply KB men, the other KBs only people that look like losers and doesn't have to strain to achieve a ratio somewhere near 50/50


If I was a politician in Australia I would systematically dismantle the nanny state. Ride a bike without a helmet, just like drivers don't wear helmets, allow people to drink nice good quality beers, cut back on the police presence everywhere, open mass immigration to Ukrainian women aged under 30 to temper the violence that is a result of sexless frustration and feelings of masculine inadequacy
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 08:33 AM by Que enspastic.)
08-23-2014 08:29 AM
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Post: #158
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
(08-23-2014 08:29 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  The contrast between treatment of alcohol in Melbourne vs Berlin is astounding. One city taxes even micro breweries so they can't offer cheap beer, the other is awash with good quality beer for a Euro or two.

One sees mass fines imposed for drinking outside , the other is relaxed.

One tries to impose lockouts on bars and venues, the other has 24/7 parties.

One serves beer in a pot glass, the other doesn't know what a pot glass is (a joint maybe?)

One allows the sale of alcohol only in supermarket offshoot liquor stores, which close at 10.30, the other sells alcohol everywhere at all times in dona shops, newsagents on train platforms, local corner stores, etc

One has a drinking kulture of violence, the other hedonism, good fun

One tried to shut down live music venues like The Tote to appease lame property speculators new to the area, the other would tell those people to fuck off

One has bouncers that simply KB men, the other KBs only people that look like losers and doesn't have to strain to achieve a ratio somewhere near 50/50

When I lived in Berlin people would all be singing, drinking and laughing on the train at 8pm.

Apparently, Australia the most greatest place in the world to achieve happiness, brings out the most violent and disorderly drunken behaviour because everyone is secretly repressed and depressed. Alcohol just helps bring out unconscious feelings and behaviours, and it's pretty telling.
08-23-2014 08:43 AM
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Post: #159
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
[snipping this for brevity]

(08-23-2014 08:10 AM)tonipepperoni Wrote:  Freedom is something so difficult to define. I mean seriously can you define it?

Freedom means different things to different people, yes. But under almost any measure of merit, you're more free in Australia (or the UK, or the US) than in these states. Yes, the West has many problems with its democratic systems, they're far from perfect, and freedom can be less than what is initially perceived. But its on a different level to states like China or Singapore. I'd rather live in a 50% free state than a 10% free state, to put it that way. Australia is definitely in the top tier of 'freedom' on a global scale, I don't think you'll find one credible political scientist who would argue otherwise. Maybe not when it comes down to bicycle helmets or bar closing times, but for most people these aren't (and shouldn't be) real issues. Not being able to vote, or freedom of the press, are rather more paramount issues over a lifetime.

Quote:Most capitalistic countries operate in a Master-Slave format, but this doesn't mean they're all the same. In many ways on paper, Australia seems like it has all the right empirical measurements to be the best in the world. But the reality isn't anywhere near close to the truth: What makes a man happy isn't necessarily how much money he has in the bank, or whether he has access to 25 degrees weather all the time or whether he has job security. We have to stop thinking like this. They are facets, but they aren't the entire picture.

In my opinion it depends on your industry. If you're in Investment Banking and Hedgefunds, as a man, you're much better off in NY & London. And if I was in a serious relationship I'd still prefer to be in a place like NY.

NYC & London are objectively worse places to live in terms of nature, weather, pollution and crime. They're also two of the few places in the world with even more insane property markets than Sydney. Culturally, they're all pretty similar. Financially, there are less (and less well paid) jobs in Sydney but you'd still be looking at 100k+ as an in anyway well qualified IBer. In other professions this disparity would be less pronounced. As a single guy, you're better in NYC or London absolutely. As someone starting a family, I don't think so.

Quote:And re: bringing a european girl over.. in my younger days, my best friend and I hosted promoted parties for exchange students. Almost all of the european girls had significantly altered their body shape and personalities, while the males became more attractive over time: the guys began going to the gym, more gamey, whereas the girls ate kebabs and fell over drunk like British girls. Even if you're a young Brad Pitt, you're setting yourself for disaster if you bring an EE goddess over.

Girls will absolutely adapt to any environment they find themselves in. But the key to that is to also adapt yourself. Raise your own game to keep her. If she starts changing negatively, you need to correct this - its on you. I still think its incredibly beta to rule out moving to a country because you're afraid the men will be more masculine than you and will steal your woman. Rather than worrying about the other men in this scenario, you need to work on yourself so that you're at a higher level than they are - and can stay secure in your relationship.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 09:05 AM by zatara.)
08-23-2014 09:03 AM
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Post: #160
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
There are no major IB's in Australia except for Macquarie. There is no Goldmansachs. Stop kidding yourself. The potential is a lot less career wise. There's an obvious ceiling, unlike NY & London which is hyper capitalistic and have a completely different tax code which favours the rich. You do not see Maybachs in Australia, in London, you see them often.

And 100k? Lol, I hope you know Plumbers earn that much in Australia.

Are you even in the financial services industry?

The key to your argument is 'someone starting a family' -- I said it before that when people think of Australia they think of settlement and raising a family. On that same reason, the entire vibe of Australia resonates a feeling of slowing down and repetition. That's what makes it significantly different to London and NYC.

Culturally they're not similar at all. Australia does not have a culture, it had to invent its culture and its history. How much does everyday sydney living reflect surfers, lifesavers, bushmen and the outback? It's completely irrelevant. For the most part, for what I can recall of my childhood, I think of asian gangsters and Italian wogs.

London has a continental vibe to it -- it is always exposed to continental language, continental tradition, and it is easy to find yourself there exposed to European life. There is always a feeling of potential. Nightlife ranges from pleb pubs to mayfair. In australia there sin't such a disparity. Culturally, London is one of the most international communities in the world.

Sydney on the other hand is filled with FOB asians who move around the city like ghosts, completely indifferent to the surroundings and the surroundings being uninterested in them. The CBDs generally cater to them as well.

In Brisbane for example, the entire CBD is filled to the brim with Koreans, all of whom live in the CBD. They're excessively tame people, making the city an extreme pedestrian experience.

Everything at the end of the day comes to a level of income. If you're earning significant quid, you'd be better off shifting your family away from Australia for several reasons:
1) You wouldn't want your daughter to live in a toxic environment such as Australia
2) Australia still has a fairly gender segregated puritanical culture i.e. the best schools are private boys schools
3) You're completely isolated from the rest of the world. Flights from Australia are more expensive, where as London to NYC can be 300 euro.
4) The isolation causes a lack of exposition to other culture. Do you know how awful it would be if Australians didn't have their mining dollars? At most, they would be in the solitary island and will find it difficult to gain exposition to alternative ideas and viewpoints.
5) Difficulty of getting out. If you don't have any alternative citizenship, do you know how difficult it would be for your children to get out?
6) I wouldn't want my children to grow up in a Nanny-state.
I would not like my children to grow up in a glass cube where everything is clean and pleasant where everything is provided to them, where there is absolutely no suffering whatsoever.. it's an insulated reality... sound's like Buddha's childhood.
7) The complete lack of history.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 09:42 AM by tonipepperoni.)
08-23-2014 09:33 AM
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Post: #161
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
Quote:Girls will absolutely adapt to any environment they find themselves in. But the key to that is to also adapt yourself. Raise your own game to keep her. If she starts changing negatively, you need to correct this - its on you. I still think its incredibly beta to rule out moving to a country because you're afraid the men will be more masculine than you and will steal your woman. Rather than worrying about the other men in this scenario, you need to work on yourself so that you're at a higher level than they are - and can stay secure in your relationship.

Mate, I don't think you realise that if you've lived in Australia (Aka as Sparta for game) and could get a new notch monthly, then you've probably graduated from a PHD in Game philosophy.

I'm not moving back to Australia because of being outmuscled, I already outlined the reasons. I'm just telling you that irrespective of how much game you learn, the game will always be affected by the environment.
And you have to accept it and minimize it, but the process of minimizing it is ridiculous because in many ways it is inauthentic i.e. the American girl trying to 'seduce' her Husband with sexy lingerie while they're in Kiev.
08-23-2014 09:38 AM
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Post: #162
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
Correction: While there are IB's in Australia, they're nothing like the potential opportunities which exist in European and American markets. If you're in finance, you're definitely better off elsewhere.
08-23-2014 09:49 AM
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Post: #163
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
(08-23-2014 02:26 AM)tonipepperoni Wrote:  I even know men in stockholm who come from a specific blood line, aristocrats, spend ridiculous amounts of cash in stureplan, spend 2 months of the year in the Riviera...and tour NY, Milan, Paris regularly. They make mince of any life afforded to an Australian kid who went to an exclusive private boys school and remains insular in some inbred clique.

Toni, I've been really appreciating much of your commentary here, but this is the real flaw in your argument here I think. I am surprised someone as intelligent and well read as you are proposing the "high and luxurious lifestyle" as something to aspire to or take seriously.

For me, I would honestly be bored as batshit touring in NY, Milan and Paris as my life and I don't like the riviera. All this indulgent, selfish, "me first" consumerism of people who have money to burn, it makes me feel more than uneasy and I don't know why you would be promoting it.

What do you think Nietzsche would say of your Swedish aristocrat? I'm sure he's a really nice guy and all, but isn't he in his free and easy ennui, the same as your inbred cliqueuy Aussie lads, isn't it just different sides of the same coin?

The mincemeat your Swedish Aristrocrat is making of the Sydney Private school kid, is it really just a higher and more luxurious lifestyle, that burns more money and is more cosmopolitan? Maybe you can clarify your terms here, but I think most of us actually don't aspire to living that way and couldn't give a rats arse about the Australian private school kid in the first place, as if he was some sort of reference point of hierarchical aspiration?

I'd say most of us here aspire to actually acheiving something, and having a strong focus, developing ourselves as men, forming worthwhile and valuable relationships with men and women and developing a sense of mission and purpose in being alive, that gives a sense of fulfiment and satisfaction and having a lifestyle that we want, with different interests, focuses and hobbies, which may involve an outdoor lifestyle.

Champagne and caviar might be great for some, but many are indifferent to the lifestyle of the glitterati and silver platter set, and would be prefer to focus on more substantial ACTIONS which give us meaning.
08-23-2014 10:04 AM
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Post: #164
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
If you got lemons make lemonade..

I agree almost 100% with you Toni, in fact your putting into words my feelings as I sat depressed on the flight out of London after my 2 year visa ran out...all be it back in the late 90s.
I knew then what I was giving up,the beauty the femininity, the elegance...and I hadn't even been to EE just Southern Europe mainly working in Spain... Jeez I wanted to cry...
I love Euro and Scandinavian women I really do.In fact I was there a couple of weeks ago for the same reason my fellow countrymen go to Asia....women.
Asian women don't do it for me, I just can't talk to them or joke with them like I do with a European women.I'll keep going back to Europe till I can't score anymore goals then maybe I'll look at Asia..maybe.


I'm 43 and worked in mainly male dominated Australian jobs from the military to emergency services.....divorce brought me to pick up....In all that time only one guy I knew from those jobs was an approacher...and he was French born...every other ladies man I knew use to get picked up by the women...thinking back, all my Aussie girlfriends chased me..I'm no Guru ,Shogun, fuck master but that's how it was..and the more I wasn't interested the more they wanted me..The biggest approachers on mass that I've seen in Australia are the English lads especially in Sydney and Aussie chicks love their accents...Melbourne where I live has it sharks but it always reminds me of "Night at the Roxbury".Sydney on the whole in my opinion has the best looking women while I found in Melbourne you have to go to where the AFL players hang out to get the same level you see in a normal Sydney club.Also you can be my age in Sydney and still go out without a problem.
If your in a relationship then live in Melbourne, if your single then inner city Sydney..

A Dutch women once said to me that Aussie women were not happy unless they are unhappy,there had to be a problem for them..She told me how she would of killed for one of these Aussie women's boyfriends yet the Aussie women treated their men like dirt. Also that in Australia everyone was alive but no one was living..

As for cultured Europeans ...PLEASE.. I've seen the knife wielding gang raping Italians in action..the German lager louts who want to fight "hey I heard your Australian, lets go outside and fight"....the Israelis who would fuck a snake with a hair lip,the sullen French groups looking to kick off,the Spaniards who can't pick up coming at me with hammers..the weak Scandinavians standing by meekly as their women get pawed...English lads with blood lust, especially if football is involved and who wouldn't think twice about glassing me... and jumping over the occasional dead Moroccans body as I'm out jogging...I've learnt to never ever go on pub crawls with Russians they can fucking drink and get insulted if you can't keep up...I respect them though..And if I need allies, someone trustworthy to watch my back its going to be a Yank , Canadian or Northern Englishman....as for Kiwis it depends whether they hate Aussies or not.

All my Aussie mates that have traveled be they skip or wog are married to non Australian women.My Nth American travel buddies all married non Americans...funny that..As for well traveled Aussie chicks...I have never met a really attractive one.

Toni I did get a letter (yes snail mail) once from an Aussie exgf teaching in EE telling me how bad she felt about being totally to horrible me..she must of been going through a bitter winter with loneliness because we had spilt up 7 years before.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 10:22 AM by Green-On-GO.)
08-23-2014 10:19 AM
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Post: #165
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
(08-23-2014 10:04 AM)tiggaling Wrote:  
(08-23-2014 02:26 AM)tonipepperoni Wrote:  I even know men in stockholm who come from a specific blood line, aristocrats, spend ridiculous amounts of cash in stureplan, spend 2 months of the year in the Riviera...and tour NY, Milan, Paris regularly. They make mince of any life afforded to an Australian kid who went to an exclusive private boys school and remains insular in some inbred clique.

Toni, I've been really appreciating much of your commentary here, but this is the real flaw in your argument here I think. I am surprised someone as intelligent and well read as you are proposing the "high and luxurious lifestyle" as something to aspire to or take seriously.

For me, I would honestly be bored as batshit touring in NY, Milan and Paris as my life and I don't like the riviera. All this indulgent, selfish, "me first" consumerism of people who have money to burn, it makes me feel more than uneasy and I don't know why you would be promoting it.

What do you think Nietzsche would say of your Swedish aristocrat? I'm sure he's a really nice guy and all, but isn't he in his free and easy ennui, the same as your inbred cliqueuy Aussie lads, isn't it just different sides of the same coin?

The mincemeat your Swedish Aristrocrat is making of the Sydney Private school kid, is it really just a higher and more luxurious lifestyle, that burns more money and is more cosmopolitan? Maybe you can clarify your terms here, but I think most of us actually don't aspire to living that way and couldn't give a rats arse about the Australian private school kid in the first place, as if he was some sort of reference point of hierarchical aspiration?

I'd say most of us here aspire to actually acheiving something, and having a strong focus, developing ourselves as men, forming worthwhile and valuable relationships with men and women and developing a sense of mission and purpose in being alive, that gives a sense of fulfiment and satisfaction and having a lifestyle that we want, with different interests, focuses and hobbies, which may involve an outdoor lifestyle.

Champagne and caviar might be great for some, but many are indifferent to the lifestyle of the glitterati and silver platter set, and would be prefer to focus on more substantial ACTIONS which give us meaning.

I agree with what you've written however I'm merely reflecting the GQ arguments made by Rush87 and co about Australia being better for 'lifestyle'.

I really don't understand what they mean by this? Are they referring to the standard of living? Are they referring to what the State hands to them on a platter? I definitely don't prescribe to this. It seems like most guys here are grabbing the 'best cities in the world' article excerpts and validating their existence accordingly.
If they're talking about luxury then I'm going to counter them on that front also by telling them how the ultra rich live in Europe. Which is what I did.

I think there are aspects of living rich and living poor, and while American capitalism and American hegemony isn't something to aspire to, European aristocracy is a completely different breed. In some ways, some cities are best experienced for its opulence while others are better to be explored on a shoe string. For example, most Australians will go to Stockholm and end up in Sodermalm the more studenty, hippie feminist part of the city where tatted up raggamuffin rats are -- which is why there are so many negative datasheets.

Other places like S.E.Asia would be ridiculous as a luxury holiday because the serenity, the beauty and the danger of the country is best explored as a backpacker.

In the future I would like to have a house in different parts of Europe and do 4-6 months at a time. It doesn't necessarily have to be luxurious, but the vibe and the city has to be enjoyable.

While I critique Capitalism, I myself am a Capitalist. I critique Capitalism to understand the puppetry which controls me and which controls my Environment. But in many ways, and which Zizek has admitted himself, Capitalism is a very spiritual experience.

The difference between Nietszche and an Australian is that he is prepared to go to the abyss, the big dark hole, where as Australian's are consumed in their false positivity and lack of self-awareness. Many Australian males live from one calendar month to the next, waiting to book their tickets to the next Stereosonic music festival so they can showcase their muscles. So they can reproduce with Shelly. Get a mortgage and eventually settle down. It's a repetitive cycle.

We're not ants. The difference between us, homosapiens, and other Animals is that we are self-conscious creatures who can ultimately ask the question 'Why?'

And that's the dramatic and the biggest Critique of Australia. They are perpetually living in the present that there is no self-reflection. No 'Why?'.

And it is only through rejection from the opposite sex that some men, a few, have the incentive to learn more about their reality and overcome the challenges.

But many get fooled, because many believe that negative critique, will result in sexlessness 'You gotta show the girls ur having a good time brah, if u do they will come to you'.

If you can survive Australia and essentially buy your freedom then you will go onto more things and do well.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 10:28 AM by tonipepperoni.)
08-23-2014 10:25 AM
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Post: #166
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
(08-23-2014 10:19 AM)Green-On-GO Wrote:  Toni I did get a letter (yes snail mail) once from an Aussie exgf teaching in EE telling me how bad she felt about being totally to horrible me..she must of been going through a bitter winter with loneliness because we had spilt up 7 years before.

There you go. And I guarantee if she stayed a bit longer, she might actually read more books, questioned her reality and become more interesting for a change.
08-23-2014 10:33 AM
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Post: #167
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
Quote:There are no major IB's in Australia except for Macquarie. There is no Goldmansachs. Stop kidding yourself. The potential is a lot less career wise. There's an obvious ceiling, unlike NY & London which is hyper capitalistic and have a completely different tax code which favours the rich. You do not see Maybachs in Australia, in London, you see them often.

And 100k? Lol, I hope you know Plumbers earn that much in Australia.

Are you even in the financial services industry?

Correction: While there are IB's in Australia, they're nothing like the potential opportunities which exist in European and American markets. If you're in finance, you're definitely better off elsewhere.

No I am absolutely not in finance, I value having free time far too much to sell my soul for 80 hour work weeks! Have plenty of friends here in it though, the silly buggers. There is indeed less of a market for IB in Sydney. My 100k point was more to do with the fact that nobody earning 100k, in Sydney or elsewhere in the world, is 'poor'. Once you hit triple figures (in a real currency, anyway) you've reached a stage where you can afford most things you'd require in life to an acceptable middle class standard. And I'd rather live on 100k/year in Sydney than 200k/year in Manhattan, given the aforementioned climate, nature, crime, pollution etc. And I think quite a lot of people would agree.


Quote:The key to your argument is 'someone starting a family' -- I said it before that when people think of Australia they think of settlement and raising a family. On that same reason, the entire vibe of Australia resonates a feeling of slowing down and repetition. That's what makes it significantly different to London and NYC.


Well my argument in this thread from my very first post was that I wouldn't recommend Australia to anyone single. But to someone in a long term relationship, I absolutely would. Were you perhaps arguing against it due to an irrational expat-hatred of Australia, and are now coming around to my POV? Smile

Quote:Culturally they're not similar at all. Australia does not have a culture, it had to invent its culture and its history. How much does everyday sydney living reflect surfers, lifesavers, bushmen and the outback? It's completely irrelevant. For the most part, for what I can recall of my childhood, I think of asian gangsters and Italian wogs.

London has a continental vibe to it -- it is always exposed to continental language, continental tradition, and it is easy to find yourself there exposed to European life. There is always a feeling of potential. Nightlife ranges from pleb pubs to mayfair. In australia there sin't such a disparity. Culturally, London is one of the most international communities in the world.

Sydney on the other hand is filled with FOB asians who move around the city like ghosts, completely indifferent to the surroundings and the surroundings being uninterested in them. The CBDs generally cater to them as well.

In Brisbane for example, the entire CBD is filled to the brim with Koreans, all of whom live in the CBD. They're excessively tame people, making the city an extreme pedestrian experience.

Any major Anglosphere city is relatively indistinguishable from any other culturally below the superficial level. Yes, you may have more minorities in certain hues, but the overriding culture is essentially American media dominated with a local twist (whether Australian, British or Manhattan). I think once you scratch the surface (ie this 'European life'), you'll find lifestyles are almost identical between say a 25 year old solicitor in London, a 25 year old lawyer in NYC and one in Sydney. They'll listen to very similar music, wear the same brands, eat similar food, watch the same movies/tv shows, have similar hobbies and similar drinking habits etc. To a true outsider, coming from SE Asia or Africa or elsewhere, they'll appear almost identical culturally.

Quote:1) You wouldn't want your daughter to live in a toxic environment such as Australia
2) Australia still has a fairly gender segregated puritanical culture i.e. the best schools are private boys schools
3) You're completely isolated from the rest of the world. Flights from Australia are more expensive, where as London to NYC can be 300 euro.
4) The isolation causes a lack of exposition to other culture. Do you know how awful it would be if Australians didn't have their mining dollars? At most, they would be in the solitary island and will find it difficult to gain exposition to alternative ideas and viewpoints.
5) Difficulty of getting out. If you don't have any alternative citizenship, do you know how difficult it would be for your children to get out?
6) I wouldn't want my children to grow up in a Nanny-state.
I would not like my children to grow up in a glass cube where everything is clean and pleasant where everything is provided to them, where there is absolutely no suffering whatsoever.. it's an insulated reality... sound's like Buddha's childhood.
7) The complete lack of history.

Most of these points apply to the rest of the Anglosphere as well. Gender segregation applies just as much to British, or South African, or Irish elite private schools (and general culture). The geographic isolation is overcome by the relatively higher wages I found - you can just use the extra money earnt to pay for the more expensive flights. A lack of exposure to other cultures only really applies to lower class Aussies. Anyone I knew who had been to a good school & uni had done far more worldwide traveling than comparable Europeans. There's a reason you can find an Aussie backpacker in every hostel around the world - they do travel rather a lot, for all their other faults.

Quite a few European states have grandparent rules for citizenship these days (Ireland & Italy for two) so I wouldn't worry about my kids (or grandkids) being trapped in the colonies, they'd all be eligible for EU passports. Australia has about as much history most of the western continental U.S., I don't think that's a huge problem on a day to day living basis.

The nanny state point equally applies to every Western state - they're all bad in this regard. Its the price you pay for safety and security. I think wanting your kids to see suffering is a slightly odd POV. Wanting your kids to grow up "where everything is clean and pleasant where everything is provided to them, where there is absolutely no suffering whatsoeve" is pretty much the goal of nearly every parent - its entirely rational. People are always free to spend a gap year as one of those insufferable hippie volunteers in SE Asia if they want to get up close and personal with poverty.

tl;dr: I maintain my original point that Australia is terrible for single men in their 20s because of both Aussie women and Aussie men, and the resultant dire game situation. However I think for most white collar men in serious relationships Sydney (in particular, but elsewhere in Oz too) is one of the best places in the world for the combination of salaries, climate, safety etc. General 'livability' as those like The Economist are wont to define it. Most of the negatives of Australia (nanny state etc) apply just as much to any other EU or Anglosphere state, so are moot in a comparative analysis. The gaming situation is really the only major downside I feel. This is a major downside in your single 20s, but it quickly becomes irrelevant once you reach a certain age / life stage.

Essentially, in your 20s and early 30s: Australia BAD. Under 18 and over 35: Australia GOOD.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 10:40 AM by zatara.)
08-23-2014 10:33 AM
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Post: #168
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
Basic question: What will you do when your daughter turns 15?

It seems like Australia is good for the average chump who needs the State's prosperous mining economy to give him a salary, when children are between the ages of 0 to 15.. but after that?

AND PS) when your children are 0 to 5, you wont be doing much travel to Rio, I can tell you that much.

For me this is far too domesticated.

Why do you like to be in such a domesticated world?
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 10:40 AM by tonipepperoni.)
08-23-2014 10:40 AM
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RE: Are australian girls ugly?
Quote:Well my argument in this thread from my very first post was that I wouldn't recommend Australia to anyone single. But to someone in a long term relationship, I absolutely would. Were you perhaps arguing against it due to an irrational expat-hatred of Australia, and are now coming around to my POV? Smile
My point was the vibe of the entire country is about people settling down. When it's such a slow vibe, with a huge cohort of people from the baby boomer generation, it's extremely predictable, domesticated and dull.
This would be significantly different to NYC and London where the vibe remains young.

Quote:Any major Anglosphere city is relatively indistinguishable from any other culturally below the superficial level. Yes, you may have more minorities in certain hues, but the overriding culture is essentially American media dominated with a local twist (whether Australian, British or Manhattan). I think once you scratch the surface (ie this 'European life'), you'll find lifestyles are almost identical between say a 25 year old solicitor in London, a 25 year old lawyer in NYC and one in Sydney. They'll listen to very similar music, wear the same brands, eat similar food, watch the same movies/tv shows, have similar hobbies and similar drinking habits etc. To a true outsider, coming from SE Asia or Africa or elsewhere, they'll appear almost identical culturally.
I don't think you've lived in an Australian CBD or London CBD to know the difference. Because it's huge. Continental European influence in London isn't a novelty, its an integral part of daily life. Just as the black and hispanic community is to NYC.
People in NY consume differently and have different tastes to those in Sydney.

Politically they're similar, but tax wise and wealth gap wise they're extremely different which also affects the overall vibe. There are no 1000 dollar restaurants in Sydney or not many, in NYC and London there are plenty.

At the end of the day it comes down to weather, and preferences... I personally wouldn't want to live in a domesticated reality.

Wouldn't you agree that Australia is far more predictable in a family setting than London and NYC?
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 10:55 AM by tonipepperoni.)
08-23-2014 10:49 AM
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tonipepperoni Offline
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Post: #170
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
Quote:No I am absolutely not in finance, I value having free time far too much to sell my soul for 80 hour work weeks! Have plenty of friends here in it though, the silly buggers. There is indeed less of a market for IB in Sydney. My 100k point was more to do with the fact that nobody earning 100k, in Sydney or elsewhere in the world, is 'poor'. Once you hit triple figures (in a real currency, anyway) you've reached a stage where you can afford most things you'd require in life to an acceptable middle class standard. And I'd rather live on 100k/year in Sydney than 200k/year in Manhattan, given the aforementioned climate, nature, crime, pollution etc. And I think quite a lot of people would agree.
I don't think you understand how IBs think. They're ambitious and don't like to settle for a salary that a plumber can earn. In the same light, any ambitious IB would not consider Australia seriously.

A friend of mine worked for JPMorgan in London and made the mistake of going to sydney in his 20s. He had much less opportunities career wise, had a salary ceiling, was taxed more heavily and suffered a sexless existence.
He's 37 now and lives in Switzerland with his girlfriend. Doesn't have too much of a plan to get married, travels all around Europe as he works for a good firm and is enjoying life immensely. He is more sophisticated, well grounded than the 37 year olds in Australia or London. He even jokes about his friends in JP London who was crying to him because he accidently had twins to his fat wife.

He could quite easily get married but chooses not to because he's still attractive to the women around him. Eventually he wants to have children, but living in Europe has afforded him with an easy going less inbred lifestyle where he doesn't have to succomb to any stupid domesticated planning like the one you're proposing.
08-23-2014 11:10 AM
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Post: #171
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
Quote:Basic question: What will you do when your daughter turns 15?
It seems like Australia is good for the average chump who needs the State's prosperous mining economy to give him a salary, when children are between the ages of 0 to 15.. but after that?
AND PS) when your children are 0 to 5, you wont be doing much travel to Rio, I can tell you that much.
For me this is far too domesticated.
Why do you like to be in such a domesticated world?

I'd have to trust in my good genes (and good parenting) to keep her somewhat normal! You can't live a life defined by fear though, the key is just working with the options available to you. I'd rather have a 15 year old daughter resident in Sydney than in most other cities in the world.

I fear that when anyone in the world has children aged 0-5 they won't be doing much travel to Rio, sadly. This is something no man who has a family is likely to be able to avoid.

Quote:My point was the vibe of the entire country is about people settling down. When it's such a slow vibe, with a huge cohort of people from the baby boomer generation, it's extremely predictable, domesticated and dull.
This would be significantly different to NYC and London where the vibe remains young.

The 'vibe' only remains young while you live in certain areas of any city, this is true of any city in the world. Once you have enough money and move towards more family orientated areas every first world country is similar in 'vibe' - large, wealthy, safe, boring. Any large city however has a young vibrant area - both Sydney and Melbourne did when I was there, anyway.

Quote:I don't think you've lived in an Australian CBD or London CBD to know the difference. Because it's huge. Continental European influence in London isn't a novelty, its an integral part of daily life. Just as the black and hispanic community is to NYC.
People in NY consume differently and have different tastes to those in Sydney.

Politically they're similar, but tax wise and wealth gap wise they're extremely different which also affects the overall vibe. There are no 1000 dollar restaurants in Sydney or not many, in NYC and London there are plenty.

At the end of the day it comes down to weather, and preferences... I personally wouldn't want to live in a domesticated reality.

I've spent the last 2 years living in London and spent 2 years previously living in Sydney, both in central 'vibrant' areas. My previous corporate job was for a NYC based company so I also spent a fair bit of time in NYC (unfortunately). The black and Hispanic influence in NYC, and immigrant influence in London, is almost non-existant in professional circles. If you're a solicitor, or an investment banker, or doctor, or anything else of note you're going to be moving in 90% white, majority male, majority privately educated circles in any of these cities.

You argued that the culture was different - have you lived in London or NYC to compare it to your Australian experiences? $1000 restaurants or tax rates aren't culture. As I said in my previous post, fundamentally, on a day to day level, people live almost identical lives in Sydney, NYC or London once you reach a certain level of success (upper-middle class). Day to day lifestyle is the true culture of a society.

Additionally, ask a Nigerian, or a Peruvian, or a Vietnamese man to tell you the difference between a Londoner, NYC or Sydney resident (lower or upper class)- they won't be able to. For all intents and purposes they're culturally identical to the outside world.

As such, it comes down to the above mentioned other livability factors when assessing Sydney - ones where it does quite well.

Quote:At the end of the day it comes down to weather, and preferences... I personally wouldn't want to live in a domesticated reality.
Wouldn't you agree that Australia is far more predictable in a family setting than London and NYC?

The problem with this debate is I don't think you yet realise this domestication and 'predictability' is an EU/Anglosphere-wide culture. Sydney is no more domesticated than London. I don't particularly like it (I have plenty of friends who've just recently sold themselves into debt slavery with needless mortgages) but I am realistic enough to know that its fact, unfortunately. Once you hit 35 and are middle class or better your priorities change. You'll take boring over risk, and Sydney (or Paris or London) over Bangkok to raise the kids. And given this eventuality, Australia is one of the better places to settle in.
08-23-2014 11:14 AM
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Post: #172
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
I have met many in Europe and North America. There are definitely some hot ones, but I put them a notch below Americans girls. I found their personalities to be more stuck-up and entitlement than America girls. American girls get a bad reputation but Australian girls are worse.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2014 11:39 AM by Dantes.)
08-23-2014 11:25 AM
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tonipepperoni Offline
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Post: #173
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
Quote:I've spent the last 2 years living in London and spent 2 years previously living in Sydney, both in central 'vibrant' areas. My previous corporate job was for a NYC based company so I also spent a fair bit of time in NYC (unfortunately). The black and Hispanic influence in NYC, and immigrant influence in London, is almost non-existant in professional circles. If you're a solicitor, or an investment banker, or doctor, or anything else of note you're going to be moving in 90% white, majority male, majority privately educated circles in any of these cities.

You argued that the culture was different - have you lived in London or NYC to compare it to your Australian experiences? $1000 restaurants or tax rates aren't culture. As I said in my previous post, fundamentally, on a day to day level, people live almost identical lives in Sydney, NYC or London once you reach a certain level of success (upper-middle class). Day to day lifestyle is the true culture of a society.
I spent significant time in Paddington and Kensington
I've done 7 months in Paris
8 months in Berlin
8 months in Dubai
A few months in Singapore
4 months in Thailand
And I lived in Brisbane and Melbourne, respectively.
There's a lot more which I wont even list.

I can tell you that the culture is significantly different.

London has a bigger dog eat dog culture. London also has a significant wealth gap. London also is a ruder city and more multi-lingual. The vibe and the atmosphere of the city is completely different -- I don't know what you've been smoking but Australia is definitely a place filled with an epic number of baby boomers.

The first feeling when I had to do a trip there was 'Fuck me, people are so middle-aged'.

The ultimate difference between living in Sydney and London is that most of your friends in London will be of a specific income bracket. If your friend is a musician, then chances are he wont be able to go out with you to the restaurant with your work friends. In Australia the tax code system works differently.

It's why I say, everything depends on your job type.

IF you're a traddie, then go to Australia. There's no place on earth which rewards tradesman like Australia.

IF you're an IB go elsewhere, you're too ambitious for a domesticated reality with small ceilings and an ageing population, and spoiled children who buy protein shakes. Unfortunately the weather and the beautiful beaches aren't worth the depravity and the boredom.
08-23-2014 11:26 AM
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Post: #174
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
Quote:The second body theme Nietzsche introduced, which Sigmund Freud (1856–1939), the father of psychoanalysis, was to elaborate and systematize, is the high price human beings have paid in the process of becoming "civilized." For Nietzsche, a decisive historical moment was the banishing of the Dionysian element—ecstatic surrender to the body, the unconscious, and the erotic—from Greek culture. Freud, unlike Nietzsche, viewed the repression of (sexual and aggressive) instinct as necessary to the preservation of human community and order. But he agreed with Nietzsche that the cost of instinctual repression in the interests of civilization was "discontent"—neurosis, depression, phobias, psychosomatic conversions, and just plain "ordinary unhappiness" (as he termed the usual condition of modern man).
This is what will happen to you if you go to Australia.
08-23-2014 11:30 AM
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Post: #175
RE: Are australian girls ugly?
“To live in Australia permanently is rather like going to a party and dancing all night with one's mother.”

Barry Humphries - (Writer, Actor and Comic, b.1934)
08-23-2014 11:36 AM
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